Nagy Hot Seat

[Hema2.0]

I've remained radio silent this offseason during the darkness pre draft thru the exuberance post draft. It's time to break that silence.

First and foremost, landing J. Fields was a dream scenario. Enough said. If he pans out and reaches his ceiling, this team will be put on a whole new trajectory we have never witnessed.

However, I'm still concerned with Nagy. Not as a head coach, but as a qb developer and play caller. I'm not sure if my concerns are warranted. Did his previous qb talent really suck, or did he fail at what he's been hired to do?

Trubisky played his best ball during his 1st year and regressed considerably after. We cannot allow that to happen to Fields. Most here believe that Dalton will not make it thru the whole year. If Fields comes in and is struggling in week 10 or later with the "deer in headlights" look, is Nagy gone?

We cannot allow him to ruin Fields. History is not on Nagys side and I'm willing to bet his leash may be as short as Dalton's.

[IE]

Trubisky played his best ball during his 1st year and regressed considerably after.

Strawman alert. This is just false. You're really going to start a new thread about issues around Nagy with that?

There are a good number of things that you could mention that would justify some trepidation about Nagy as a head coach or offensive genius. But the false narrative that Trubisky regressed isn't one of them. He was never good, and at his best had the benefit of 6-7 DST scores and record turnovers.

[Hema2.0]

Trubisky played his best ball during his 1st year and regressed considerably after.

Strawman alert. This is just false. You're really going to start a new thread about issues around Nagy with that?

There are a good number of things that you could mention that would justify some trepidation about Nagy as a head coach or offensive genius. But the false narrative that Trubisky regressed isn't one of them. He was never good, and at his best had the benefit of 6-7 DST scores and record turnovers.

I never said he was good, but most would say he played and looked more confident/comfortable that year than any year after.

[dplank]

No need to rehash any Mitch stuff. But I'm of the belief that Nagy has to deliver a competent offense this season or he's fired in the offseason. I just can't believe they'd suffer through another offense year like the last few and not make a move, he's had long enough to get it going. His scapegoat is gone. Nagy needs to deliver.

[Rusty Trombagent]

No need to rehash any Mitch stuff. But I'm of the belief that Nagy has to deliver a competent offense this season or he's fired in the offseason. I just can't believe they'd suffer through another offense year like the last few and not make a move, he's had long enough to get it going. His scapegoat is gone. Nagy needs to deliver.

It's pretty frustrating not knowing if pace/nagy got extensions or not.

I went into the offseason thinking that it would take some kind of catastrophically bad season for Nagy to be worried about his job, and the nagging feeling that he's in over his head keeps making me wonder if he's not on as solid ground as i'd thought.

[Hema2.0]

Mitch only becomes relevant if Fields looks like he is going down that same road under the same tutelage. DP, appreciate you offering an opinion on the meat of the topic rather than nitpicking 1 paragraph.

Nagy scares me.

[IE]

Strawman alert. This is just false. You're really going to start a new thread about issues around Nagy with that?

There are a good number of things that you could mention that would justify some trepidation about Nagy as a head coach or offensive genius. But the false narrative that Trubisky regressed isn't one of them. He was never good, and at his best had the benefit of 6-7 DST scores and record turnovers.

I never said he was good, but most would say he played and looked more confident/comfortable that year than any year after.

Are you aware that '18 wasn't his first year? Or are you going to bust out the old "first FULL year" to help spin the nonsense? He stunk, dude. The entire time except for the parts of 2018 where the defense was the world's best QB cologne.

[Hema2.0]

I never said he was good, but most would say he played and looked more confident/comfortable that year than any year after.

Are you aware that '18 wasn't his first year? Or are you going to bust out the old "first FULL year" to help spin the nonsense? He stunk, dude. The entire time except for the parts of 2018 where the defense was the world's best QB cologne.

LOL. Why are you trying to bust my balls?
No it wasn't his first year in the league, but 2018 was hist first year with Nagy. Trubisky's QBR went down considerably in 2019 as well. Nagy should shoulder some of that blame.

[Boris13c]

there are reasons for Nagy to be on the hot seat without connecting it to a specific player

* the magical season of 2018 - we saw a Bears team with a dominating defense lead the way to the playoffs, assisted by a reasonably successful offense ... we had every reason to believe that season was simply the foundation building block of even better things to come ... they didn't

* easy to decipher offense - after Coach of the Year, Nagy went into nutso land, fascinated with gadgets and bullshit over solid fundamental football ... my friends and I could watch the pre-snap formations and personnel and predict what the Bears were going to do, and were right the majority of the time ... and that was a bunch of half drunk folks watching on tv ... imagine how many laughs opposing defenses have gotten over knowing what the Bears were going to do pre-snap

* steady regression to suck - Nagy talks a good game, but the performance on the field rarely meets the expectations ... and the oozing suck of lack of planning and discipline eventually made its way onto special teams and defense as well

look, I like Nagy ... I remember him as a QB in the Arena League, and the dude did not suck ... yeah, it was the Arena League, but it was professional football and he was good at it ... so my expectation was him translating the effort and dedication of his playing days into his coaching role and being smart enough to adjust as a coach as he did as a player ... instead, that is his greatest flaw as a coach - lack of proper adjustments along the way ... and for whatever reason, there does not seem to be enough emphasis on simple solid fundamental football ... there always has to be a trick up his sleeve, and when the trick fails, the drive fails

as Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face ... when the Bears plan fails, they seemingly have no alternative but to go back and continue to keep getting punched

Nagy has to realize this is his final last gasp, and all we can do is hope he is smart enough to take advantage of his opportunity to improve himself and the team

[Moriarty]

Nagy was brought in to be an offensive genius who would develop the highly drafted QB.


The QB sucked
His offense sucked 3 straight years and the team was only modestly successful because of the defense saving their ass.

I wanted him out after last year, but understood that they didn't want to eat 2 years.

This year he's got 2 more QBs, to add to the 2 he already tried.
If the offense doesn't come roaring to life, he needs to be out on his ass this time, for sure.

[The Marshall Plan]

We haven't had a Mitch thread in like over a week.

Let's do this!

[thunderspirit]

I went into the offseason thinking that it would take some kind of catastrophically bad season for Nagy to be worried about his job, and the nagging feeling that he's in over his head keeps making me wonder if he's not on as solid ground as i'd thought.

I am thoroughly convinced that it would take a 4-13 record for Nagy to lose his job. I think he'll be given the chance to see the Fields selection through.

[IE]

Are you aware that '18 wasn't his first year? Or are you going to bust out the old "first FULL year" to help spin the nonsense? He stunk, dude. The entire time except for the parts of 2018 where the defense was the world's best QB cologne.

LOL. Why are you trying to bust my balls?
No it wasn't his first year in the league, but 2018 was hist first year with Nagy. Trubisky's QBR went down considerably in 2019 as well. Nagy should shoulder some of that blame.

I'm not trying to bust your nuts. The title of your post is actually a good, hot topic. Plank posted a "Nagy hasn't learned" thread, and several other threads have conversation around JF1's readiness and how Nagy is handling him (eg. not practicing with the 1s and such). It IS some legitimate concern whether the right guy is steering the ship.

But the focus of everything else you said was exclusively from the POV of "Nagy scares me because look at what he did with Mitch"... which is I'm sorry but just nonsense. Party time!

Look... Nagy gave Mitch every defense and opportunity he could. No - he didn't tailor an offense to a QB would "couldn't hit a mule in the ass with a banjo" (RIP #55) if it was running or beyond 20 yards. No - he didn't resort to running the I formation or 2 min drill the entire games, which would have helped the QB. That wasn't what he was brought in to do. He was brought in to develop the QB and install a modern NFL offense. The problem is the QB couldn't ever run a modern NFL offense. That is not an indictment of Nagy. Nor are Trubisky's stats or QBR. But MAYBE a lot of other concerns he raises ARE.

I'm suspicious of Nagy too - but preseason can be so misleading that I'm reserving judgement for the regular season.

[Otis Day]

It is sad, maybe bordering on pathetic that the talk of launching a coach is with us again. The constant churn of coaches is not good for consistency (obviously) and not a good look for the franchise. This year will be the year to know if and for how long Nagy sticks around. I am not really a fan but don't want to see him fail. That means the Bears fail. But what he was brought in for, what his stable of pretty respectable assistants were brought in for, has not paid off. If he fails this year and is gone, who knows how many years it will take the next coach to implement his system and how fast it catches on. for the sake of the franchise, nagy has to succeed.

[Artbest]

IMO, it's not just Nagy who is on the hot seat - Ryan Pace, going into his 7th season as GM, is right there with him. I know there's a new halo effect re: Nagy due to the Fields pick, but his struggles with roster construction, cap management and handling of the draft can't be ignored.


The offense, regardless of who is coaching this team or calling plays, isn't very good. The overall talent is arguably in the bottom 5-10 teams in the league. After 7 off seasons, the Bears' offensive tackles are a 39 year old has been who was fishing before the Bears called and a Seahawks castoff. Other than Allen Robinson, there isn't a pass catcher on the Bears that other teams have to plan for. Fields is arguably the only bona-fide blue chip talent on offense - and he's a rookie. The defense is aging with, due to poor cap management, a gaping hole at one CB spot.

IMO, Nagy is a play designer not a play caller. I also think his players may be tuning him out - no direct evidence is at hand, just a hunch on my part. I worry that his presence will set Fields back...BUT....unlike Mitch, I believe Justin to be a true alpha. When Brian Daboll is coaching him next season and a more fundamentally sound GM is acquiring talent to put around him, the sky will be the limit

[Hema2.0]

In Paces defense, he built a championship caliber defense from a dumpster pile. He has missed on draft picks, but every GM does. I like Pace.

But like others have said, Nagy was hired because he was an offensive guru and a QB whisperer. His side of the ball has been horrendous, and every QB that had started for him has looked inept or average at best. He has failed. The defense has bailed him out as much or more than anybody.

[IE]

In Paces defense, he built a championship caliber defense from a dumpster pile. He has missed on draft picks, but every GM does. I like Pace.

But like others have said, Nagy was hired because he was an offensive guru and a QB whisperer. His side of the ball has been horrendous, and every QB that had started for him has looked inept or average at best. He has failed. The defense has bailed him out as much or more than anybody.

Foles actually looked decent in Nagy's offense for a couple of games before the Oline cratered starting in the Bucs game. Considering he had very little offseason practice and no starters reps after the "competition" was over, he did OK (within his clear limitations of being immoble and quite streaky). He did struggle against Indy and a few other teams - but as it turns out in hindsight those were some of the toughest defenses in the NFL last year. And he beat one of them, in the Superbowl winners.

So I don't know if it is true that no QBs have looked good under Nagy. The only other real example is Daniels... and he looked "ok" in the offense as well (again - within his known limitations).

[Artbest]

Pace is arguably on a hotter seat than Nagy. He's been on the job since 2015 - more than enough time to build a complete team, but has failed to do so. It's not just missed draft picks - it's poor roster construction, poor cap management, poor allocation of resources etc. He's produced 1 winning season - and two playoff one and dones - in 6 seasons. If the Bears fail to make the playoffs this season, he has to go along with Nagy. VERY few GM's are given the opportunity to hire two head coaches. If Nagy goes, Pace goes - as it should be. He's not a particularly, overall, good GM.

In Paces defense, he built a championship caliber defense from a dumpster pile. He has missed on draft picks, but every GM does. I like Pace.

But like others have said, Nagy was hired because he was an offensive guru and a QB whisperer. His side of the ball has been horrendous, and every QB that had started for him has looked inept or average at best. He has failed. The defense has bailed him out as much or more than anybody.

[Mikefive]

I went into the offseason thinking that it would take some kind of catastrophically bad season for Nagy to be worried about his job, and the nagging feeling that he's in over his head keeps making me wonder if he's not on as solid ground as i'd thought.

I am thoroughly convinced that it would take a 4-13 record for Nagy to lose his job. I think he'll be given the chance to see the Fields selection through.

This right here.

[dplank]

I don't think it's a specific record really. If our offense takes off and the defense implodes, causing us to have a hit record, Nagy stays. If our D is good and our offense is shit again, Nagy should be gone. He has had enough time to get this going - full stop right there for me. It's year 4, show me or move on out.

[Rusty Trombagent]

the thing is, we really dont know if this is nagy's last contract year. if it is, he's surely on thinner ice than some assume.
if the keys were nagy's to drive his new toy fields for a few seasons, then you'd think the bears would be a bit more forthcoming with his contract status.

[The Marshall Plan]

I used to work with people like Nagy and Pace. Like how in TF do they keep their jobs? Then a couple months go by and there's an announcement they've been promoted.

Pace should've been fired for missing on Watson.
Nagy should've been fired for failing to develop Mitch and the 6 game losing streak last year.

But here we are.

I'm convinced that the McCaskey's have a Tarik Cohen sized stiffy for those two guys. It's the only thing that makes sense. They probably laugh at Virginia's and George's jokes. Show up to meetings on time. Walk into Virginia's office Ted Lasso style with homemade biscuits everyday.

Like Ozzy Osbourne says, "Don't ask me. I don't know."

The point is they're here and they're here to stay whether we like it or not.

My new homie Justin Fields could wind up saving both of their jobs. I guess if I get a true franchise QB out of this I have to take the good with the bad.

[Grizzled]

Nagy has proven to be far from a QB whisperer. Kyle Shanahan, Brian Daboll, Andy Reid, Arthur Lee bring the goods in this area, as does the guy with the Chargers who helped Justin Herbert to a great rookie season. Regardless of whether or not Nagy got an extension during the offseason, the Bears can't continue to roll with him if the offense continues to sputter and cough this season. Keep Pace, he's done a decent job, let him hire a proven solid coach with success at developing QBs.

[Artbest]

I see no scenario where Nagy goes and Pace stays. The roster is a mess - that’s on him

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

If the Bears come out and go 1-3 with Dalton under center, and our offense looks anemic and unprepared. Nagy will have to switch to Fields to try and save his job, implying "Dalton was not able to run the offense the way it was designed" scenario. If the offense looks bad under Fields, then there will be nothing that Nagy can do to save his job. Because Pace will need to bring someone in that can utilize Fields, or he knows he will be gone.

[Hema2.0]

I see no scenario where Nagy goes and Pace stays. The roster is a mess - that’s on him

If the Bears come out and go 1-3 with Dalton under center, and our offense looks anemic and unprepared. Nagy will have to switch to Fields to try and save his job, implying "Dalton was not able to run the offense the way it was designed" scenario. If the offense looks bad under Fields, then there will be nothing that Nagy can do to save his job. Because Pace will need to bring someone in that can utilize Fields, or he knows he will be gone.

This is exactly where my thoughts are. If this offense struggles, and Fields looks even a little bit lost out there later this season, there is no way you can trust Nagy to be anywhere near Fields going forward.

I'll admit, I am biased. I dont trust Nagy.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I see no scenario where Nagy goes and Pace stays. The roster is a mess - that’s on him

If the Bears come out and go 1-3 with Dalton under center, and our offense looks anemic and unprepared. Nagy will have to switch to Fields to try and save his job, implying "Dalton was not able to run the offense the way it was designed" scenario. If the offense looks bad under Fields, then there will be nothing that Nagy can do to save his job. Because Pace will need to bring someone in that can utilize Fields, or he knows he will be gone.

This is exactly where my thoughts are. If this offense struggles, and Fields looks even a little bit lost out there later this season, there is no way you can trust Nagy to be anywhere near Fields going forward.

I'll admit, I am biased. I dont trust Nagy.

The McCaskey's can be loyal to a fault. They LOVE the people they love. By all accounts, they LOVE Ryan Pace. I can easily see a scenario where Pace fires Nagy, and hires another coach.

[The Marshall Plan]

This is exactly where my thoughts are. If this offense struggles, and Fields looks even a little bit lost out there later this season, there is no way you can trust Nagy to be anywhere near Fields going forward.

I'll admit, I am biased. I dont trust Nagy.

The McCaskey's can be loyal to a fault. They LOVE the people they love. By all accounts, they LOVE Ryan Pace. I can easily see a scenario where Pace fires Nagy, and hires another coach.

That's how I see it too.

The problem is who is Nagy replaced with?

I'm sick of hiring a coordinator for their first HC job.

If there is a name out there for whatever reason I would consider it. Doug Pederson wouldn't be bad. I don't see how you get Lincoln Riley out of Oklahoma. I don't think Jim Harbaugh is an option either unless he gets fired at Michigan.

But how realistic are any of those options?

[The Grizzly One]

The McCaskey's can be loyal to a fault. They LOVE the people they love. By all accounts, they LOVE Ryan Pace. I can easily see a scenario where Pace fires Nagy, and hires another coach.

In my opinion this should have been done before last season, I didn't like Pace giving Nagy one more year, but I kinda understood it. This season it infuriated me.

To be honest, I want them both gone. I guess I could kinda live with Pace as he seems to be improving. But Nagy's condescending, arrogant, smarter than any of us, attitude...I removed my signature train wreck only because I want to support my team.

I do believe the crash is coming, but there is a chance the Defense and Fields could carry us to a decent, Lovie-esk winning record and early playoff exit. But I am sick of Nagy and believe the offense could do well only in spite of him.

If Nagy is inexplicably back next year after more buffoonery, I end my 50+ year relationship with the Bears and football.

[Xee]

The McCaskey's can be loyal to a fault. They LOVE the people they love. By all accounts, they LOVE Ryan Pace. I can easily see a scenario where Pace fires Nagy, and hires another coach.

That's how I see it too.

The problem is who is Nagy replaced with?

I'm sick of hiring a coordinator for their first HC job.

If there is a name out there for whatever reason I would consider it. Doug Pederson wouldn't be bad. I don't see how you get Lincoln Riley out of Oklahoma. I don't think Jim Harbaugh is an option either unless he gets fired at Michigan.

But how realistic are any of those options?

Man, we haven't played one snap of regular season fooball and we're already looking for a replacement for Nagy? I know we are Bear fans and are a pessimistic lot by nature but might want to pump the breaks a bit .

Just to play devils advocate though, I think with Fields here we would be a lot more attractive destination for the cream of the cop, whoever they end up being.