The "Gardner Minshew" Memorial Thread of Whatever

[IE]

I really like dogs. You can take that as "bad nfl players" OR "shelter doggers".

[IE]

I mean seriously? This guy is a total stud.

[The Marshall Plan]

We couldn't have traded a sixth for this guy? Whatever. Pace sucks. Our team has no personality. Could you imagine The Gardner at Club Dub?

Lovin the Skid Row montage video.

This thread isn't dying. Gardner Minshew is going to be a legit QB in this league.

[IE]

It's not over till we say it's over!

[mmmc_35]

We couldn't have traded a sixth for this guy? Whatever. Pace sucks. Our team has no personality. Could you imagine The Gardner at Club Dub?

Lovin the Skid Row montage video.

This thread isn't dying. Gardner Minshew is going to be a legit QB in this league.

I could very much so see him succeeding.

[The Marshall Plan]

We couldn't have traded a sixth for this guy? Whatever. Pace sucks. Our team has no personality. Could you imagine The Gardner at Club Dub?

Lovin the Skid Row montage video.

This thread isn't dying. Gardner Minshew is going to be a legit QB in this league.

I could very much so see him succeeding.

All of my meatball bias aside. I think Jacksonville should’ve sold the pick.

Minshew had an upward moving rating into the mid-90s. He just finished year 2.

A fair eval of QBs is what? 2 or 3 years.

Minshew was producing.

Now considering Miami got three firsts from SF to draft Lance. What could JAX have gotten for Lawrence? Four firsts? Three firsts and some seconds?

JAX isn’t one QB away from greatness. You could build a whole team with that haul. All on rookie deals so you still have cap room. And Minshew was cheap as hell too.

[Rusty Trombagent]

are we rehashing the "should jacksonville have sold the pick" debate?

absolutely not! But if we're criticizing jacksonville's recent draft, lol at taking an HB with your other 1st round pick.

[The Marshall Plan]

are we rehashing the "should jacksonville have sold the pick" debate?

absolutely not! But if we're criticizing jacksonville's recent draft, lol at taking an HB with your other 1st round pick.

Would you walk from this deal?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... kages/amp/

From Detroit:
2021 1st: 7th overall
2021 2nd
2022 1st: 2 of them. 1 from the Goff trade
2023 1st
2022 3rd
Plus Eric Decker

[Rusty Trombagent]

Not a single team in the league thinks Gardner is even worth a 5th rounder, but you're gonna trade away the rights to a qb who many are calling a generation talent and hand the keys to the franchise to Minshew.

It's fun to be a fan with no real skin in the game but that's a gamble that more likely than not is gonna get you walking papers in a few years.

[malk]

Not a single team in the league thinks Gardner is even worth a 5th rounder, but you're gonna trade away the rights to a qb who many are calling a generation talent and hand the keys to the franchise to Minshew.

It's fun to be a fan with no real skin in the game but that's a gamble that more likely than not is gonna get you walking papers in a few years.

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Not a single team in the league thinks Gardner is even worth a 5th rounder, but you're gonna trade away the rights to a qb who many are calling a generation talent and hand the keys to the franchise to Minshew.

It's fun to be a fan with no real skin in the game but that's a gamble that more likely than not is gonna get you walking papers in a few years.

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

Again, this is al rehashing old argument, but if you swing and miss on a consensus top pick, everyone understands. You try and build your whole team around hillbilly kyle orton and that is more often than ending at the unemployment line.

[The Marshall Plan]

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

Again, this is al rehashing old argument, but if you swing and miss on a consensus top pick, everyone understands. You try and build your whole team around hillbilly kyle orton and that is more often than ending at the unemployment line.

Even if you think Minshew is total crap (He's not.) you would get the #7 overall from Detroit.

This draft had 5 QBs expected to go in the top 10. Cincinnati and Miami were never going to take a QB. You're mathematically guaranteed to get one because you're picking 7th.

This part is hindsight, but Fields was sitting right there at 7.

Could you imagine trading away the #1 and getting:

2021 1st: 7th overall; Justin Fields
2021 2nd
2022 1st: 2 of them. 1 from the Goff trade
2023 1st
2022 3rd
Plus Eric Decker

Over the next 3 years you have SEVEN first round picks. 4 from DET plus 3 of your own.

You then also have a great tackle with Decker.

That's how you build a team.

[Rusty Trombagent]

so in your scenario, the lions traded for jared goff, but still are trading their next three year's draft for lawrence?

[The Marshall Plan]

so in your scenario, the lions traded for jared goff, but still are trading their next three year's draft for lawrence?

Yeah like I wrote the article which lists a bunch of scenarios BTW.

Stop dodging and answer the question.

[wab]

That's a pretty far-fetched trade that I don't think would ever happen... but that would be a steal for the Jags.

FWIW, if I'm a team with the #1 pick and a QB on a rookie deal that can at least keep a team competitive with the right players around him... I'm absolutely actively trying to trade it 99% of the time.

[mmmc_35]

You take Lawrence every time. However I still think Minshew can succeed in the NFL.

I guess I deem successful as a starting caliber multi year QB. Maybe like slight less Aaron Brooks type career equals success.

[IE]

You take Lawrence every time. However I still think Minshew can succeed in the NFL.

I guess I deem successful as a starting caliber multi year QB. Maybe like slight less Aaron Brooks type career equals success.

Lawrence looks pretty good, IMO.

[Rusty Trombagent]

so in your scenario, the lions traded for jared goff, but still are trading their next three year's draft for lawrence?

Yeah like I wrote the article which lists a bunch of scenarios BTW.

Stop dodging and answer the question.

I think we just need to agree to disagree. I agree with Wab that I think that specific scenario is extremely far fetched. There are zero guarantees that a QB you want is there at 7, or will be where you pick the next year if the qb, who again, the entire league does not think is worth even a 5th round pick despite his incredibly cheap contract, does not work out. I just dont care how many great picks you have, if you dont have a QB to build around I think you're just treading water, and nothing matters til you find that guy.

I mean, he cost nothing to keep, and Jacksonville still jettisoned him.

[RichH55]

Not a single team in the league thinks Gardner is even worth a 5th rounder, but you're gonna trade away the rights to a qb who many are calling a generation talent and hand the keys to the franchise to Minshew.

It's fun to be a fan with no real skin in the game but that's a gamble that more likely than not is gonna get you walking papers in a few years.

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

Generational Talents have great track records actually


Getting 1 on THIS Rookie Wage Scale is a monster advantage

A)
It should also be noted in this Trade Lawrence scenario - The Jags already had an Extra 1st, Extra 2nd, and Extra 4th in 2021 (Not too mention they had Top 3 Cap Space going into the Offseason). All their picks for 2022 plus an extra 5th

I think you have to taken into account - the current roster, cap situation, and draft pick situation to gauge what a team might do



B)
Plus it seems that teams with the extra picks always seem to "get cute". Raiders and Jags each had extra firsts after trading an ALL-Pro level player (not even a QB) - and both drafted HB

Which is just a bad use of resources

[RichH55]

And yes - this actually is a super fun thought experiment/ Hypo

[RichH55]

Also - I am surprised at the lack of market for Minshew

[malk]

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

Again, this is al rehashing old argument, but if you swing and miss on a consensus top pick, everyone understands. You try and build your whole team around hillbilly kyle orton and that is more often than ending at the unemployment line.

This I'd definitely agree with. Imo an underappreciated amount of decision making in the NFL is down to not straying from the consensus line as it gets you fired. Not picking Lawrence could get a GM fired even if Lawrence busted out (not saying he will, just hypothetically) and whist that's mad it absolutely will influence GM decisions.

In. A. Heartbeat.

How good have "generational" talents been over the past 20 years? "The best prospect since Luck!" who, um, made one Conference Championship game and lost it. 4-4 postseason record...

If a bird in the hand is worth two in the wood, what about a bird in the hand plus a bunch of traps, bait and a nice shotgun... vs a bird that you've seen in the wood that looks pretty nice but you're using a scope that historically isn't all that accurate.

Generational Talents have great track records actually


Getting 1 on THIS Rookie Wage Scale is a monster advantage

A)
It should also be noted in this Trade Lawrence scenario - The Jags already had an Extra 1st, Extra 2nd, and Extra 4th in 2021 (Not too mention they had Top 3 Cap Space going into the Offseason). All their picks for 2022 plus an extra 5th

I think you have to taken into account - the current roster, cap situation, and draft pick situation to gauge what a team might do



B)
Plus it seems that teams with the extra picks always seem to "get cute". Raiders and Jags each had extra firsts after trading an ALL-Pro level player (not even a QB) - and both drafted HB

Which is just a bad use of resources

@RichH55 who are your generational talents here? Defined as QBs identified as such pre draft with success measured in significant postseason success, if not rings?

[IE]

Also - I am surprised at the lack of market for Minshew

Me too. I've concluded that there are some attributes and some baggage that come with him that aren't really related to his ability to play as much but are still things that some teams don't want. The little cult hero thing he has going is cool & funny... but what team really wants that noise around?

Through his behavior and self-marketing he pretty much limits his attractiveness to places where he could actually compete and win the job. Most teams with settled starters at QB don't want the distraction, and would rather have a quiet backup even if it is a lesser one (same reason Cam was cut, IMO). Heck - even places like Carolina or Denver where he certainly could have competed to start clearly didn't want that drama at this point, or already had a competition going. There are teams that need good backups, but if you're one of those do you really want a Minshew or a Newton - or do you want someone who "knows their place"?

Anyway that's what I think it is. Minshew is actually really smart. He may be completely aware of what he's doing and hoping it will result in him going somewhere they do actually consider him to be potentially starting. I hope he gets his wish. I want to see it. I think he is "as good" as several starting QBs in the league (Danny Dimes, Darnold, Goff, Teddy, and maybe even Cousins).

[dplank]

The whole 'generational talent' thing has been pretty well debunked since the draft. Folks are now openly admitting that Fields got jobbed by the talking heads (I won't speculate as to why that happened, I have my own beliefs as to why and like everyone else I'm just happy he's a Bear) while Lawrence got a free pass from all the same criticisms that could have been levied against him as they were Fields. They are basically mirror prospects. Maybe their both 'generational', we'll see in a few years.

As for Minshew...if you trust the GM's in the league when dissing Trubisky's for his market value, then it's inconsistent to claim that they all got it wrong with Minshew IMO. His value league wide, for whatever the reasons are, was a 6th round pick. He's backing up Jalen Hurts (for now). They have a weak QB room in Philly, so if he's anything he should be able to ascend that depth chart pretty quickly. We'll see if the GM's all got it right or wrong.

[HurricaneBear]

Minshew is actually the 3rd string QB in Philly. Flacco is the backup to Hurts.

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/depth-chart

With that said, I do think Minshew has some potential, but he also does have a much larger personality than his talent level so I do agree with IE that its a turn off for teams. The Eagles are proud of being a "QB Factory" and have a questionable starter AND backup so it makes alot of sense for him in Philly.

[IE]

Minshew is actually the 3rd string QB in Philly. Flacco is the backup to Hurts.

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/depth-chart

With that said, I do think Minshew has some potential, but he also does have a much larger personality than his talent level so I do agree with IE that its a turn off for teams. The Eagles are proud of being a "QB Factory" and have a questionable starter AND backup so it makes alot of sense for him in Philly.

That's a timing thing. They didn't trade a potential 5th rounder to Jax for their 3rd stringer. As soon as Minshew is up to speed, Flacco retires (long overdue).

[dplank]

Flaccid Flacco sux. Minshew should easily pass him.

[IE]

Lol... "I'm here for revenge"

[RichH55]

Again, this is al rehashing old argument, but if you swing and miss on a consensus top pick, everyone understands. You try and build your whole team around hillbilly kyle orton and that is more often than ending at the unemployment line.

This I'd definitely agree with. Imo an underappreciated amount of decision making in the NFL is down to not straying from the consensus line as it gets you fired. Not picking Lawrence could get a GM fired even if Lawrence busted out (not saying he will, just hypothetically) and whist that's mad it absolutely will influence GM decisions.

Generational Talents have great track records actually


Getting 1 on THIS Rookie Wage Scale is a monster advantage

A)
It should also be noted in this Trade Lawrence scenario - The Jags already had an Extra 1st, Extra 2nd, and Extra 4th in 2021 (Not too mention they had Top 3 Cap Space going into the Offseason). All their picks for 2022 plus an extra 5th

I think you have to taken into account - the current roster, cap situation, and draft pick situation to gauge what a team might do



B)
Plus it seems that teams with the extra picks always seem to "get cute". Raiders and Jags each had extra firsts after trading an ALL-Pro level player (not even a QB) - and both drafted HB

Which is just a bad use of resources

@RichH55 who are your generational talents here? Defined as QBs identified as such pre draft with success measured in significant postseason success, if not rings?
[/quo@RichH55[/me@RichH55




I mean the worst case scenario is Andrew Luck in my lifetime? And that is a good chunk due to early retirement more than anything

[RichH55]

The whole 'generational talent' thing has been pretty well debunked since the draft. Folks are now openly admitting that Fields got jobbed by the talking heads (I won't speculate as to why that happened, I have my own beliefs as to why and like everyone else I'm just happy he's a Bear) while Lawrence got a free pass from all the same criticisms that could have been levied against him as they were Fields. They are basically mirror prospects. Maybe their both 'generational', we'll see in a few years.

As for Minshew...if you trust the GM's in the league when dissing Trubisky's for his market value, then it's inconsistent to claim that they all got it wrong with Minshew IMO. His value league wide, for whatever the reasons are, was a 6th round pick. He's backing up Jalen Hurts (for now). They have a weak QB room in Philly, so if he's anything he should be able to ascend that depth chart pretty quickly. We'll see if the GM's all got it right or wrong.

No one of importance is saying anything like that as to Lawrence

He was a generational QB - Fields is not (hopefully that still allows for Fields to be Great)

But no- they weren't mirror prospects

Lawrence never played a single game in his college career as bad as the Indiana game for instance - Never one.

Fields could still have been jobbed (being passed by that many temas ) - Absolutely - but its not the same thing as calling him Generational - that term does have some meaning