Pace hot seat

[crueltyabc]

It makes more sense to look at that weapons as a whole

Robinson
Mooney
Monty
Kmet

I’m not sure that’s a top 20 group.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Robinson is a good WR but he’s not elite.

Which BTW was my exact take on Robinson for a while now.

But I got yelled at when I dare question "Perennial 1500 Yard WR" or "Top 7-8 WR"

But he doesn't set the world on fire when the QB can't see "NFL open" and now he's the "Short Deck" as if hes not even good

Nonsense

I just said he was a good WR. But he’s not a playmaker because he’s got 4.6 speed.

And I think they should have signed him because I doubt Pace will find a better replacement in free agency or the draft. And having someone you can rely on to go up and get a contested ball on a 3rd down is valuable.

He and Fields clearly haven’t developed great chemistry but that will come with time and he’ll look better with Fields.

My point is there is just no one that can bust the game open when they get the ball in there hands. Can you even remember the last time a Bears player caught a short pass made multiple guys miss and made it all the way to the end zone?

[The Cooler King]

Take with a grain of salt:

[Artbest]

While he could be right, the "Da Bears Blog" guy - Jeff Hughes I think ? - has about as many legit HH contacts as any of us do - i.e. none. That said, I do think, even though the offense is one of the weaker ones (overall) talent-wise in the league, the coaching staff struggles to come up with a coherent approach. Granted, a lot of that stems from starting a rookie who clearly isn't ready - Brian Daboll looked like a mega bust of an OC during Josh Allen's rookie year - now he's likely to be the hottest coordinator-head coaching candidate in 2022 - but this is a steady 4 year refrain.

However, if the Bear organization is serious about a. maximizing whatever Justin Fields can be and b. being a consistent winner, if the current trends hold, both Nagy AND Pace have to go.

[wab]

I guess I didn’t see them getting mauled in pass protection, I saw what appeared to be coverage sacks or the QB being indecisive for the most part. He also ran into a couple sacks. No doubt they did get burned a couple times on stunts, but that’s going to happen.

Ejax I agree with. The WR’s I don’t know if it’s them, the scheme, slow decisions from the QB or all of the above.

Cody Whitehair got whipped bad twice by the Packers DT twice on the last drive, and Mustipher got pushed into Fields lap on multiple occasions, when the Packers lineman grabbed Fields by the neck…that was Mustipher.

Who at the WR position for the Bears do you think keeps opposing DC’s awake at night? Maybe they could be more effective in a better scheme but I don’t think anyone is scary to opposing teams.

You know the DL on the other team gets paid to do a job too? I've called out Mustipher on multiple occasions, but the Bears OL held up just fine overall against the Packers.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Cody Whitehair got whipped bad twice by the Packers DT twice on the last drive, and Mustipher got pushed into Fields lap on multiple occasions, when the Packers lineman grabbed Fields by the neck…that was Mustipher.

Who at the WR position for the Bears do you think keeps opposing DC’s awake at night? Maybe they could be more effective in a better scheme but I don’t think anyone is scary to opposing teams.

You know the DL on the other team gets paid to do a job too? I've called out Mustipher on multiple occasions, but the Bears OL held up just fine overall against the Packers.

They started out okay but weren’t very good for most of the second half and when it mattered most they didn’t perform well. Cody Whitehair got beat by the same guy on consecutive plays. Getting beat once there would be unfortunate but it happens. Having it happen on the next play too shouldn’t be acceptable. Especially, for your highest paid offensive lineman.

[wab]

You know the DL on the other team gets paid to do a job too? I've called out Mustipher on multiple occasions, but the Bears OL held up just fine overall against the Packers.

They started out okay but weren’t very good for most of the second half and when it mattered most they didn’t perform well. Cody Whitehair got beat by the same guy on consecutive plays. Getting beat once there would be unfortunate but it happens. Having it happen on the next play too shouldn’t be acceptable. Especially, for your highest paid offensive lineman.

I mean I don't know what you want me to say. Kenny Clark is really good. Not Aaron Donald good, but good.

An awful lot of the sacks that Fields takes is on him trying to scramble. It's also worth noting that the Bears are running the ball better than they ever have under Nagy.

[TheWorldBreaker]

They started out okay but weren’t very good for most of the second half and when it mattered most they didn’t perform well. Cody Whitehair got beat by the same guy on consecutive plays. Getting beat once there would be unfortunate but it happens. Having it happen on the next play too shouldn’t be acceptable. Especially, for your highest paid offensive lineman.

I mean I don't know what you want me to say. Kenny Clark is really good. Not Aaron Donald good, but good.

An awful lot of the sacks that Fields takes is on him trying to scramble. It's also worth noting that the Bears are running the ball better than they ever have under Nagy.

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

[wab]

I mean I don't know what you want me to say. Kenny Clark is really good. Not Aaron Donald good, but good.

An awful lot of the sacks that Fields takes is on him trying to scramble. It's also worth noting that the Bears are running the ball better than they ever have under Nagy.

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Just to point out to those who hold up Leonard Floyd as an example of a Pace first round bust that he recorded another 1.5 sacks, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery on Sunday to take his sack total for the season to 4.5 in 6 games following on from his 10.5 sacks last season (plus 2 in the playoffs). His production may not have been as great in Chicago but it's getting harder to argue that Pace and his scouts got it wrong in terms of talent evaluation.

[G08]

Just to point out to those who hold up Leonard Floyd as an example of a Pace first round bust that he recorded another 1.5 sacks, a forced fumble and a fumble recovery on Sunday to take his sack total for the season to 4.5 in 6 games following on from his 10.5 sacks last season (plus 2 in the playoffs). His production may not have been as great in Chicago but it's getting harder to argue that Pace and his scouts got it wrong in terms of talent evaluation.

Agreed. I hated the pick at the time, but he is thriving with the Rams.


I just can't imagine Pace being fired after he was given the green light to overhaul Halas Hall. Maybe the whole "John Fox was forced on him" is true and Matt Nagy was his first official hire, I don't think I'd be opposed to him having a second bite at the apple.

But, then again, we are doing the same shit where we draft a QB for one offensive coach and pray another one can develop him. Same old Chicago bullshit.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I mean I don't know what you want me to say. Kenny Clark is really good. Not Aaron Donald good, but good.

An awful lot of the sacks that Fields takes is on him trying to scramble. It's also worth noting that the Bears are running the ball better than they ever have under Nagy.

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

Here's my problem with evaluating Pace over the last three and a half years. Nagy's offense has been so inept, that it's been hard to evaluate the talent we actually have on the team. Yes Pace hired Nagy, but tons of people talk their way into jobs they don't belong in. True, a lot of the players that Pace drafted have not gone on to do great things elsewhere. But Pace's evaluation of defensive talent is undeniable. He has found some mid to late round gems on offense. His offensive draft this year was arguably his best. We could have three or four legitimate starters on that side of the ball if Herbert continues to flash, and Borom works out.

Pace is not going anywhere. He's had one coaching hire, and he was just allowed to draft another potential franchise QB. Nagy will most likely be gone at the end of the year, but Pace will be here. For my part, I'm fine with it.

[RichH55]

I mean I don't know what you want me to say. Kenny Clark is really good. Not Aaron Donald good, but good.

An awful lot of the sacks that Fields takes is on him trying to scramble. It's also worth noting that the Bears are running the ball better than they ever have under Nagy.

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

The Bears are currently tied for 20th in Pass Block Win Rate. Which is certainly not elite - but it's not the bottom of the barrel either.

"And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat."

Not really - he doesn't get the ball out or he scrambles and hasn't learned this isn't tOSU yet and that other team isn't Rutgers

One of the sacks he took on Sunday took forever and a day to happen

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

The Bears are currently tied for 20th in Pass Block Win Rate. Which is certainly not elite - but it's not the bottom of the barrel either.

"And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat."

Not really - he doesn't get the ball out or he scrambles and hasn't learned this isn't tOSU yet and that other team isn't Rutgers

One of the sacks he took on Sunday took forever and a day to happen

Could it be that "where his eyes are supposed to go first" in the scheme isn't getting receivers open, or the routes are taking too long to develop? His comment regarding his required progression was a damming indictment of Nagy's offense. Yes he has missed open receivers, but if he is putting his eyes where Nagy is telling him to, that's on Nagy. Not Fields. Why would one of your first couple of reads NOT be to your supposed #1 receiver? I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness, and it's why he looks frustrated on the sideline. He knows that as soon as the play is called, whether it's going to work or not. I would go as far as to say that Fields probably has as good or better understanding of football offense as a concept than Nagy does. The problem isn't entirely Fields holding the ball too long, it's partially the total ineptness of Nagy's offense, and also the kid just trying to make a play.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Sure, but if you’re going to be a big money player the expectation is for you to be competitive, especially in critical situations. He was not.

And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat.

The rushing numbers are up but they can’t pass protect worth a damn which is an issue in the modern NFL when you have to score lots of points.

Anyway, that brings me back to the original point I was trying to make, aside from the DL/Edge group no position group on the Bears is elite or even causes envy to other teams.

Ryan Pace has had 7 years to build the team and is against the cap but roster wise the Bears don’t match up with the elite teams in the NFL.

That’s a problem, especially since I’ve so many people want to fire Nagy and give Pace a third opportunity to screw up a head coach hire.

Here's my problem with evaluating Pace over the last three and a half years. Nagy's offense has been so inept, that it's been hard to evaluate the talent we actually have on the team. Yes Pace hired Nagy, but tons of people talk their way into jobs they don't belong in. True, a lot of the players that Pace drafted have not gone on to do great things elsewhere. But Pace's evaluation of defensive talent is undeniable. He has found some mid to late round gems on offense. His offensive draft this year was arguably his best. We could have three or four legitimate starters on that side of the ball if Herbert continues to flash, and Borom works out.

Pace is not going anywhere. He's had one coaching hire, and he was just allowed to draft another potential franchise QB. Nagy will most likely be gone at the end of the year, but Pace will be here. For my part, I'm fine with it.

My personal expectation is that both will be back. I don’t think the McCaskey’s want to fire anyone. And forcing a young QB to learn a new offense his second year does not help them develop.

And I’m not sure why Pace should get any kind of pass while Nagy should be judged this season for results with a rookie QB.

You can imply that Nagy conned him. But the fact is that Nagy had only been coaching for 10 years and only called plays for about half a season, and was still hired.

Not only that but the majority of the salary cap has been spent on defense. So an inexperienced offensive coordinator was hired to coach a team built to win with its defense. And that inexperienced coach was expected to scheme the bargain talent on offense to great success? That doesn’t seem like a smart plan from a GM.

Look at the offensive players he drafted that have been extended. It’s not a long list. And Cody Whitehair has not been great this year and Tarik Cohen has been out since early in the 2020 season.

It’s too early to judge this year’s draft. Especially, since Jenkins hasn’t even practiced and Borom played for like one series?

I would say that Pace’s eye for defensive talent is overrated. His evaluations of defensive linemen has been very good but I wouldn’t say any other position groups evaluations have been excellent.

But one of his supposed gems in Eddie Jackson has been hot garbage since he got paid. He could never tackle worth a damn but that was ignored by us because of the interceptions but that’s not something a GM can fall into. Pace did and it’s costing the Bears.

Adrian Amos is a better all around safety that Pace let walk. He’s now making big plays against the Bears for Green Bay.

Pace chose to sign Danny Trevathan who was on the wrong side of 30 instead of Kwiatakowski. That has not paid dividends yet.

Before the Packers game, Kindle Vildor was giving up a passer rating of 155.5. There’s no solid slot corner, neither safety is very good.

Even if you buy into this weird conspiracy theory that Pace didn’t actually hire John Fox despite saying he did, he’s been on the job for seven years, so we know he is as a GM.

And as a GM he’s a reckless gambler whose gambles almost never pay off and someone who competes against himself resulting in deficiencies in draft capital, draft mistakes (e.g. reaching on Shaheen) and salary cap issues.

I’m not a fan of Nagy’s play calling and everything they do schematically but it’s undeniable he’s a good leader. Not losing the locker room after a six game losing streak more than demonstrates that.

And Nagy has not yet had a losing season. The fact is the Bears haven’t had this much sustained success since Lovie.

It’s mediocrity but my thing is: If we’re going to demand excellence, excellence should be demanded across the board.

And Ryan Pace isn’t an excellent GM, he’s literally a punchline other teams use when discussing their frustrations with their GMs because of the Trubisky pick:

“Well at least he didn’t trade up from 3 to 2 to get his guy and not be saddled with Mahomes or Watson.”

For all of his foibles, nothing Nagy has done is as bad as that move.

[TheWorldBreaker]

The Bears are currently tied for 20th in Pass Block Win Rate. Which is certainly not elite - but it's not the bottom of the barrel either.

"And on a lot of those sacks he’s scrambling because of how bad and quickly an offensive lineman got beat."

Not really - he doesn't get the ball out or he scrambles and hasn't learned this isn't tOSU yet and that other team isn't Rutgers

One of the sacks he took on Sunday took forever and a day to happen

Could it be that "where his eyes are supposed to go first" in the scheme isn't getting receivers open, or the routes are taking too long to develop? His comment regarding his required progression was a damming indictment of Nagy's offense. Yes he has missed open receivers, but if he is putting his eyes where Nagy is telling him to, that's on Nagy. Not Fields. Why would one of your first couple of reads NOT be to your supposed #1 receiver? I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness, and it's why he looks frustrated on the sideline. He knows that as soon as the play is called, whether it's going to work or not. I would go as far as to say that Fields probably has as good or better understanding of football offense as a concept than Nagy does. The problem isn't entirely Fields holding the ball too long, it's partially the total ineptness of Nagy's offense, and also the kid just trying to make a play.

Nagy isn’t calling the plays anymore and it’s not damning, Robinson wasn’t the first read, and Amos doubled his first read and Fields felt the pressure from behind before he could get it off.

And Rich: The Bears might currently be 20th now but that’s with Nagy protecting them with an ultra conservative quick passing game and averaging maybe 20 throws a game. Don’t think they would be as highly ranked if they were throwing 35 times a game.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Could it be that "where his eyes are supposed to go first" in the scheme isn't getting receivers open, or the routes are taking too long to develop? His comment regarding his required progression was a damming indictment of Nagy's offense. Yes he has missed open receivers, but if he is putting his eyes where Nagy is telling him to, that's on Nagy. Not Fields. Why would one of your first couple of reads NOT be to your supposed #1 receiver? I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness, and it's why he looks frustrated on the sideline. He knows that as soon as the play is called, whether it's going to work or not. I would go as far as to say that Fields probably has as good or better understanding of football offense as a concept than Nagy does. The problem isn't entirely Fields holding the ball too long, it's partially the total ineptness of Nagy's offense, and also the kid just trying to make a play.

Nagy isn’t calling the plays anymore and it’s not damning, Robinson wasn’t the first read, and Amos doubled his first read and Fields felt the pressure from behind before he could get it off.

And Rich: The Bears might currently be 20th now but that’s with Nagy protecting them with an ultra conservative quick passing game and averaging maybe 20 throws a game. Don’t think they would be as highly ranked if they were throwing 35 times a game.

Nagy absolutely is calling some of the plays. Or at the very least is giving Lazor direction on the concepts that he wants to run. The difference between how Nagy and Lazor call a game are night and day, and easily recognizable.

If Nagy isn't calling the plays, how is it that HE is protecting them with a quick passing game?

The zone running game and quick PA hits are all Lazor. They are complimentary plays and have a rhythm and a flow to them. The long developing receiver routes on 3rd and long when you're already in FG range are all on Nagy.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Nagy isn’t calling the plays anymore and it’s not damning, Robinson wasn’t the first read, and Amos doubled his first read and Fields felt the pressure from behind before he could get it off.

And Rich: The Bears might currently be 20th now but that’s with Nagy protecting them with an ultra conservative quick passing game and averaging maybe 20 throws a game. Don’t think they would be as highly ranked if they were throwing 35 times a game.

Nagy absolutely is calling some of the plays. Or at the very least is giving Lazor direction on the concepts that he wants to run. The difference between how Nagy and Lazor call a game are night and day, and easily recognizable.

If Nagy isn't calling the plays, how is it that HE is protecting them with a quick passing game?

The zone running game and quick PA hits are all Lazor. They are complimentary plays and have a rhythm and a flow to them. The long developing receiver routes on 3rd and long when you're already in FG range are all on Nagy.

Nagy was calling plays through the Browns game. He very clearly gave them up after that. The quick passing game with Dalton against the Rams was game one.

All of the press can literally watch both Nagy and Lazor from their press box. If Nagy was calling the plays, they’d be reporting on it.

Lazor is not a perfect play caller, every bad play call is not because Nagy butted in and called the play.

Have you considered that because Fields was a rookie and the CLE game was a disaster, the game plans and play calling were super simplified to begin with and have been slowly expanding since Lazor took over as play caller?

[The Cooler King]

I'm working on a little project about the cap. Obviously cap complaints are a frequent critique of Pace. I've generally felt these were baseless (at least in really large macro terms)

I think people are going to be surprised what the Bears actual cap outlook is like. (note I'm separating out teams into groups based on QB situation). I'm anticipating the Bears to be average at worst at cap flexibility based on their like peers. But we'll see. I have to model out several variables, but my first high level review showed some interesting numbers....

The high level initial takeaway is the Bears are pretty low in future cap liabilities. What's gonna hurt them is they are also gonna be on the low end of players contracted. But from a technical standpoint it does point to flexibility. How to reconcile those two is the nuanced part.

[dplank]

Bottom line is Nagy is responsible for the offense performance. We've been a bottom 5 offense since he's been here, that's just an undeniable fact. Nothing will change that, and he must go.

[RichH55]

I'm working on a little project about the cap. Obviously cap complaints are a frequent critique of Pace. I've generally felt these were baseless (at least in really large macro terms)

I think people are going to be surprised what the Bears actual cap outlook is like. (note I'm separating out teams into groups based on QB situation). I'm anticipating the Bears to be average at worst at cap flexibility based on their like peers. But we'll see. I have to model out several variables, but my first high level review showed some interesting numbers....

The high level initial takeaway is the Bears are pretty low in future cap liabilities. What's gonna hurt them is they are also gonna be on the low end of players contracted. But from a technical standpoint it does point to flexibility. How to reconcile those two is the nuanced part.

Good post

[RichH55]

Bottom line is Nagy is responsible for the offense performance. We've been a bottom 5 offense since he's been here, that's just an undeniable fact. Nothing will change that, and he must go.

Maybe - people certainly are entitled to this opinion (and it has merit)

Though it could be that Mitch was never the goods and Fields absolutely isn't ready YET

[RichH55]

Could it be that "where his eyes are supposed to go first" in the scheme isn't getting receivers open, or the routes are taking too long to develop? His comment regarding his required progression was a damming indictment of Nagy's offense. Yes he has missed open receivers, but if he is putting his eyes where Nagy is telling him to, that's on Nagy. Not Fields. Why would one of your first couple of reads NOT be to your supposed #1 receiver? I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness, and it's why he looks frustrated on the sideline. He knows that as soon as the play is called, whether it's going to work or not. I would go as far as to say that Fields probably has as good or better understanding of football offense as a concept than Nagy does. The problem isn't entirely Fields holding the ball too long, it's partially the total ineptness of Nagy's offense, and also the kid just trying to make a play.

Nagy isn’t calling the plays anymore and it’s not damning, Robinson wasn’t the first read, and Amos doubled his first read and Fields felt the pressure from behind before he could get it off.

And Rich: The Bears might currently be 20th now but that’s with Nagy protecting them with an ultra conservative quick passing game and averaging maybe 20 throws a game. Don’t think they would be as highly ranked if they were throwing 35 times a game.

I mean the Rate is the Rate - Im not sure extra throws would make that monsterous a difference IMHO - The line is what it is - Not great but no where near as bad as people make it out to be (especially if it helps defend Fields* - there is just not going to be reason there)


*Fields is a rookie who probably needs at least most of a Year to be ready - there is HOPE, there is a building kit to a Franchise QB - BUT that aint what you are seeing in like Game 4 of his reign - Those are just bad mistakes




ALSO to this comment: "I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness,"

Does Ryan Day have some list of NFL Hall of Famers under his QB resume?

[Xee]

The more this season progresses and the more I listen/read about rookie QBs I am definitely going to take a step back from critiquing Fields. We are a society that has become accustomed to instant gratification but the QB position is the exact opposite. If you look at the best of the best QB's rookie seasons, I highly doubt in the midst of them people *knew* without a doubt that they were going to be hall-of-famers one day. This is something that takes years to know with any kind of certainty.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Nagy isn’t calling the plays anymore and it’s not damning, Robinson wasn’t the first read, and Amos doubled his first read and Fields felt the pressure from behind before he could get it off.

And Rich: The Bears might currently be 20th now but that’s with Nagy protecting them with an ultra conservative quick passing game and averaging maybe 20 throws a game. Don’t think they would be as highly ranked if they were throwing 35 times a game.

I mean the Rate is the Rate - Im not sure extra throws would make that monsterous a difference IMHO - The line is what it is - Not great but no where near as bad as people make it out to be (especially if it helps defend Fields* - there is just not going to be reason there)


*Fields is a rookie who probably needs at least most of a Year to be ready - there is HOPE, there is a building kit to a Franchise QB - BUT that aint what you are seeing in like Game 4 of his reign - Those are just bad mistakes




ALSO to this comment: "I think Fields, given his experience at OSU and with Ryan Day, sees RIGHT THROUGH Nagy's ineptness,"

Does Ryan Day have some list of NFL Hall of Famers under his QB resume?

No. He doesn't. However Fields has been a wildly successful D1 QB, winning at the highest level, against the best college teams in the nation, while going 20-2. Coached by arguably one of the best D1 coaches in the country. Nagy was a QB at University of Delaware, where he had just over a .500 record, and then coached with Andy Reid for four years. Fields could very well be listening to Nagy, thinking "man you have no idea what you're talking about." He's doing what the coach is asking him to do, but getting frustrated in the process.

[The Cooler King]

Oh man, I'm actually getting slightly softer on my "Nagy and Pace are a package deal" stance. I might just shift to, "still fire Pace, but promote Kelly".

Fun exercize:

The Bears and Cardinals have a remarkably similar cap situation at a high level. So tell me the difference between the two. Go.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Oh man, I'm actually getting slightly softer on my "Nagy and Pace are a package deal" stance. I might just shift to, "still fire Pace, but promote Kelly".

Fun exercize:

The Bears and Cardinals have a remarkably similar cap situation at a high level. So tell me the difference between the two. Go.

The Cardinals have a more balanced roster in that they have elite players on both sides of the ball whereas the Bears only have elite players on defense.

Also, as as I know they aren’t paying big money to players that aren’t worth what they’re getting paid, see e.g. Eddie Jackson and Jimmy Graham.

[The Cooler King]

Good start. What else?

[TheWorldBreaker]

Good start. What else?

I don’t see very many Cardinals games, so I don’t know.

[The Cooler King]

Good start. What else?

I don’t see very many Cardinals games, so I don’t know.

I'm thinking much higher level than that. Also, this spun out of a question about how does Pace manage the cap compared to peers.

I'll see if I can post specific numbers later, but I'm seeing two really strong trends.

Teams who have lost a lot recently with very clean cap situations. Teams who have won some or a lot and have messier caps. I'm not surprised. This is what I expected.

The Cardinals and Bears seem to represent a little bit of a crossroads, with very similar cap situations, but divergent in results. It's just an interesting exercise since obviously Cardinals are the belle of the ball right now as the leagues only remaining undefeated team.

Anyways my longer point is something like, "the Bears cap is fine". And frankly it should be because they haven't had to pay a QB like a franchise QB in like 10 years. But wanted to look at it more closely since it seems to be a frequent complaint lobbed at Pace.