Pace hot seat

[TheWorldBreaker]

Who do you think would have done a better job, or who do you want to replace him that will do a better job with drafting and free agents?

Everybody who has been on the job a comparable amount of time has done a better job.

The Athletic did a piece today ranking GM’s.
They broke it down into categories based on longevity. In the category of GM’s in place for 5-9 drafts, Pace came in last:



The other five in order:
Jon Robinson (Titans)
Steve Keim (Cardinals)
Howie Roseman (Eagles)
Tom Telesco (Chargers)
Jason Licht (Bucs).

Once you've given someone a lot of rope (7 yrs), and you know they have done poorly, and you even know they aren't making any changes to their approach (constant trading away picks) - then it's time to move on.
The next choice could be worse, but odds are they'll be better. And any chance is better than staying with a well-known, bad quantity.

The "oh, it could be worse" fear is high on the list of why this has been a bad franchise for decades.

Amen, brother.

As far as names go, here is a list of names for the expected to be soon open Giants job: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nj.com ... utType=amp

Lot's of interesting names, no need to keep a proven loser that hasn’t figured it out after 7 years.

Seriously, have some standards. Not even Lions fans would accept a GM with a track record as poor as Pace’s and want him to get a third coach hire.

[Z Bear]

Chris Ballard would of been the better choice. I am a big fan of what he has done in Indy outside of Wentz. Indy had a shit offensive line and defense, Ballard completely changed that since he got there.

[dplank]

Any of these

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... s-in-2022/

[Grizzled]

The Bears need to look at the Ravens for a model on how to build a winning organization and team. They can retain Pace and mediocrity or hire a GM like this:

https://dawindycity.com/2021/11/23/chic ... -ravens/2/

[The Cooler King]

I mean the wording on that tag line is so pointless it's nonsensical.

Hire Ozzie Newsome or someone like him…

Oh yea, why didnt I think to just simply hire someone like Ozzie Newsome. It's so obvious. Why doesn't everyone just hire someone like Ozzie! God these NFL franchises are knuckleheads.

[dplank]

I mean the wording on that tag line is so pointless it's nonsensical.

Hire Ozzie Newsome or someone like him…

Oh yea, why didnt I think to just simply hire someone like Ozzie Newsome. It's so obvious. Why doesn't everyone just hire someone like Ozzie! God these NFL franchises are knuckleheads.

ONe thing I think you're missing here is the point I made earlier (not sure if this thread or another). Hiring a President of Football Ops that doesn't have all the grind/responsibilities of a GM might be an easier, less stressful committed job than an Ozzie Newsome might be interested in. So by separating the roles, we may actually open up the available talent pool for guys like Ozzie or similar talents that don't want a GM job but might want something like a President of Football Ops job - which would be a huge win for us.

[dave99]

I mean the wording on that tag line is so pointless it's nonsensical.

Hire Ozzie Newsome or someone like him…

Oh yea, why didnt I think to just simply hire someone like Ozzie Newsome. It's so obvious. Why doesn't everyone just hire someone like Ozzie! God these NFL franchises are knuckleheads.

ONe thing I think you're missing here is the point I made earlier (not sure if this thread or another). Hiring a President of Football Ops that doesn't have all the grind/responsibilities of a GM might be an easier, less stressful committed job than an Ozzie Newsome might be interested in. So by separating the roles, we may actually open up the available talent pool for guys like Ozzie or similar talents that don't want a GM job but might want something like a President of Football Ops job - which would be a huge win for us.

I agree. As you point out different job, different talent pool.
It also gets George and Ted out of football operations, a giant addition by subtraction.
I posted a part of article by Dan Pompei, who has considerable experience covering the NFL and Bears that listed potential candidates:
Trace Armstrong, Tony Dungy, Newsome and Rick Smith. He did not discuss availability only desirability.
Personally, I like the idea of Armstrong, former Bear, successful agent for coaches and executives and past president of the NFLPA.
He knows the game, the candidates for GM and HC and the politics.

[The Cooler King]

I mean the wording on that tag line is so pointless it's nonsensical.

Hire Ozzie Newsome or someone like him…

Oh yea, why didnt I think to just simply hire someone like Ozzie Newsome. It's so obvious. Why doesn't everyone just hire someone like Ozzie! God these NFL franchises are knuckleheads.

ONe thing I think you're missing here is the point I made earlier (not sure if this thread or another). Hiring a President of Football Ops that doesn't have all the grind/responsibilities of a GM might be an easier, less stressful committed job than an Ozzie Newsome might be interested in. So by separating the roles, we may actually open up the available talent pool for guys like Ozzie or similar talents that don't want a GM job but might want something like a President of Football Ops job - which would be a huge win for us.

Org chart/title issue aside, my point is that a guy like Newsome doesn't just come available. I'm sure he can dictate whatever role he wants in Baltimore, why would he come to Chicago to do it.

And at one time Ozzie was just another young up and comer. As were a lot of great GMs. There's this common theme/belief that the Bears approach has been flawed and its just not true. It just turns out consistency at a high level is very rare to come by and if you don't youre gonna be going through various GM/coach iterations until one combo hits.

Anyways if Ozzie would miraculously come to the Bears he can have whatever title and level of responsibility he wants. The reality of the often quoted "Football Pres" is almost always much dumber than that when specifics are mentioned. I'm totally fine with the idea that levels of delegation/collaboration can vary, but 90% of the time it's nonsensical. And assuming the Ozzie dream shot ain't available, we'll there aren't many Ozzies just walking around.

[Moriarty]

Jon Robinson: 5 years, 58 wins 40 losses. 2 head coaches. (3-13)
Steve Keim: 9 years, 75 wins, 65 losses. 3 head coaches. (5-11)
Howie Rosman: 12 years, 100 wins, 95 losses. 4 head coaches. (11-5)
Tom Telesco: 9 years, 68 wins, 75 losses. 3 head coaches. (9-7)
Jason Licht: 8 years, 57 wins, 70 losses. 3 head coaches. (2-14)


I would argue none of them entered a situation as dire as the 2015 Bears job was

That's really not relevant any more. If you were evaluating Pace after 3-4 years on the job, sure, you take into account the starting point. But he's already worked through an entire cycle. He started with an old & bad team in need of rebuilding, got them to young & average & 'going for it', and is back again to an old & bad team in need of rebuilding.
All but one of those peers has been at it even longer. They've had their own rebuilding to do, or - if they haven't, they've done a hell of a job to maintain a team that long without needing to rebuild.


Secondly, the idea that Pace had some sort of Herculean, almost never seen before task to face is complete nonsense. Most new HCs or GMs step in on the heels of a poor season.
Pace inherited a 5-11 team. The other guys in that list?

Jon Robinson: 5 years, 58 wins 40 losses. 2 head coaches. (3-13)
Steve Keim: 9 years, 75 wins, 65 losses. 3 head coaches. (5-11)
Howie Rosman: 12 years, 100 wins, 95 losses. 4 head coaches. (11-5)
Tom Telesco: 9 years, 68 wins, 75 losses. 3 head coaches. (9-7)
Jason Licht: 8 years, 57 wins, 70 losses. 3 head coaches. (2-14)


That puts him squarely in the middle of the group.

Looking at the above, I'd say Ryan Pace is closer to Jason Licht than anything else: Ryan Pace: 7 years, 46 wins, 63 losses. 2 head coaches.

So you're arguing that, instead of being considered 6th out of 6, he should be considered tied for 5th out of 6 (with the guy who inherited a much worse 2-14 team).

Either way, that doesn't make the cut for me.

[dplank]

Pace had an ideal situation for a rebuild IMO, simply because 1) there was no question that a rebuild was needed and fans/ownership were prepared for it 2) our cap situation was absolutely pristine

[RichH55]

True - AND Cap issue worries were a thing some of us (me on that board) were worried about with Pace coming from New Orleans

[G08]

Jon Robinson: 5 years, 58 wins 40 losses. 2 head coaches. (3-13)
Steve Keim: 9 years, 75 wins, 65 losses. 3 head coaches. (5-11)
Howie Rosman: 12 years, 100 wins, 95 losses. 4 head coaches. (11-5)
Tom Telesco: 9 years, 68 wins, 75 losses. 3 head coaches. (9-7)
Jason Licht: 8 years, 57 wins, 70 losses. 3 head coaches. (2-14)


I would argue none of them entered a situation as dire as the 2015 Bears job was

That's really not relevant any more. If you were evaluating Pace after 3-4 years on the job, sure, you take into account the starting point. But he's already worked through an entire cycle. He started with an old & bad team in need of rebuilding, got them to young & average & 'going for it', and is back again to an old & bad team in need of rebuilding.
All but one of those peers has been at it even longer. They've had their own rebuilding to do, or - if they haven't, they've done a hell of a job to maintain a team that long without needing to rebuild.


Secondly, the idea that Pace had some sort of Herculean, almost never seen before task to face is complete nonsense. Most new HCs or GMs step in on the heels of a poor season.
Pace inherited a 5-11 team. The other guys in that list?

Jon Robinson: 5 years, 58 wins 40 losses. 2 head coaches. (3-13)
Steve Keim: 9 years, 75 wins, 65 losses. 3 head coaches. (5-11)
Howie Rosman: 12 years, 100 wins, 95 losses. 4 head coaches. (11-5)
Tom Telesco: 9 years, 68 wins, 75 losses. 3 head coaches. (9-7)
Jason Licht: 8 years, 57 wins, 70 losses. 3 head coaches. (2-14)


That puts him squarely in the middle of the group.

Looking at the above, I'd say Ryan Pace is closer to Jason Licht than anything else: Ryan Pace: 7 years, 46 wins, 63 losses. 2 head coaches.

So you're arguing that, instead of being considered 6th out of 6, he should be considered tied for 5th out of 6 (with the guy who inherited a much worse 2-14 team).

Either way, that doesn't make the cut for me.

I think the point you are (intentionally?) missing is you have to have a QB in place and the right head coach. I'm of the opinion we have one.

[Artbest]

The cardinal game was a huge indictment of Ryan Pace. Injuries to front line starters will limit a team, but the lack of young players with at least theoretical potential on this roster, after the gm has been on the job for 7 seasons, is appalling. This roster is dominated by nondescript journeymen on one year contracts. This roster is (very) bad - inexcusable after all of these years. Combine that with one winning season and a 2-11 record against Green Bay and the case to dismiss pace is overwhelming. Arguments to the contrary are vacuous at best

[Moriarty]

I think the point you are (intentionally?) missing is you have to have a QB in place and the right head coach. I'm of the opinion we have one.

You make it sound like someone else is in charge of QB and HC selection and we should all be cutting him slack for having bad ones forced on him.
Whose fault is it that it took until year 7 to (maybe) have a QB and 7 years in still with terrible HCing that should have been identified sooner?

How did those other GMs manage not flail around haplessly for 7 years?

And when is he going to learn that having as few draft picks as possible isn't how you build a team? 7 years in, and he very clearly still hasn't learned that, either.

[Sugashane]

Any of these

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... s-in-2022/

Rick Smith and Horitz are two of my favorites, I even did a mock last year where I wanted Smith as the VP of Football Ops and Horitz was the GM, and I would go apeshit if that was able to be worked out.

Another name I am fond of is Eliot Wolf though. Be very excited to see him running things at Halas Hall. Has like 13 years in GB, a few years as an Ast GM for CLE when they made a big jump, and now is working with NE.

[Sugashane]

Hub said on the Score this week that he isn't hearing anything from Halas Hall sources about any significant sentiment for Pace to go

I don't think he's going anywhere. I'm not even sure he's going to get bumped up.

Again, I'll share his 'hits':

Draft Picks and Free Agents

Goldman - Goldman has sucked since his extension, likely a cut this offseason
Amos (thriving in GB) - was let go for HHCD
Floyd (thriving in LA) - drafted as an EDGE and was horrendous there, but offball was good. Should have been the ILB instead of DT
Whitehair - Started good and leveled out. Would be a great OL if he is the worst on it, but a bad line if he is the best on it.
Kwiatkoski (paid by LV) - Was let go for an aging DT. Should have been re-signed if they weren't going to re-sign Floyd to the spot.
Howard - had a great rookie year and dropped off each year after for us. Has sucked since.
DHC - good ST player
Jackson - started hot and hasnt come close to living up to his contract and was paid early.
Cohen - Agreed. Solid draft pick up for his position, injury was a freak incident.
Roquan Smith - great pick. I'm not crazy about ILBs in the top 10 but he's a stud
Daniels - Daniels has been a disappointment since 2nd year IMO. He'll have a great handful of plays against a badass like Donald then be inept for 2-3 quarters
Nichols - started solid but has been garbage this year
Montgomery - solid player.
Kmet (early) - terrible pick. Kmet has been consistently a ghost.
Jaylon Johnson - agreed
Gipson (early) - agreed.
Mooney - agreed
Fields - love the pick, would have done the exact same if possible
Jenkins/Borom (way too early) - even with the injury concern I'd have taken Jenkins. He can be special. Borom has been great so far but lets see if he doens't fizzle out like Daniels and Whitehair often have
Herbert - great pick so far.

Trevathan - initial signing was great, re-signing was a disastrous choice.
Hicks - great pick up
Robinson (I guess...) - was a great signing until Pace pissed him off, now he is protecting himself for FA IMO. Signed several people to big deals before locking ARob down and now ARob is screwing him.
Khalil Mack Trade - loved the trade, would have been great if he didn't screw the HC and QB choices that ruined it.
Quinn - I'm eating crow on this one. He has been one of few bright spots this season. COULD have had Mack - Smith - Floyd - Quinn for about the same price instead of DT though.


Over the course of 7 seasons, including overhauling Halas Hall, this isn't bad

Just put my 2 cents in on these to play devils advocate. If your picks weren't good enough to re-sign but are thriving elsewhere then IMO you need to go back to be a scout and not work with pro personnel. Pace has botched a LOT in his time here.

[The Cooler King]

Any of these

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... s-in-2022/

Rick Smith and Horitz are two of my favorites, I even did a mock last year where I wanted Smith as the VP of Football Ops and Horitz was the GM, and I would go apeshit if that was able to be worked out.

Another name I am fond of is Eliot Wolf though. Be very excited to see him running things at Halas Hall. Has like 13 years in GB, a few years as an Ast GM for CLE when they made a big jump, and now is working with NE.

This right here to me is the exact kind of unrealistic expectations I mean when people are talking about FO roles and this VP or Pres role. If Smith were brought on board, I think expectations about a number 2 should be severely curtailed from a guy like Horitz. And Smith is actually a guy I could see as a kind of "higher touch" GM hire who would delegate more and maybe be lower touch, but if someone like him were the hire, I think his GM-assistant GM, whatever is gonna be a step down from someone like Horitz. You're looking for a guy maybe trying to make that jump into a number 2 role, not a guy who arguably already is a number 2 role at an awesome org.

Maybe very optimistically you can swing for the fences with a guy like Kahn in Pittsburgh who rumor has it isn't in line to get the eventual top job there like many thought he was, and might take a lateral move for the chance to build a resume, but even that is highly unlikely wishful thinking.

[G08]

I think the point you are (intentionally?) missing is you have to have a QB in place and the right head coach. I'm of the opinion we have one.

You make it sound like someone else is in charge of QB and HC selection and we should all be cutting him slack for having bad ones forced on him.
Whose fault is it that it took until year 7 to (maybe) have a QB and 7 years in still with terrible HCing that should have been identified sooner?

How did those other GMs manage not flail around haplessly for 7 years?

And when is he going to learn that having as few draft picks as possible isn't how you build a team? 7 years in, and he very clearly still hasn't learned that, either.

He was very clear in that it was going to take time to rip the team down to the studs, and John Fox was essentially chosen for him as HC (supposedly Pace had the right to veto but didn't). So with that and looking at the trash we trotted out his first few seasons here, I have no problem "cutting him slack".

His biggest issue IMO was not firing Fox a year early and bringing Kyle Shanahan in as head coach (even that is a debatable move).

[Sugashane]

Rick Smith and Horitz are two of my favorites, I even did a mock last year where I wanted Smith as the VP of Football Ops and Horitz was the GM, and I would go apeshit if that was able to be worked out.

Another name I am fond of is Eliot Wolf though. Be very excited to see him running things at Halas Hall. Has like 13 years in GB, a few years as an Ast GM for CLE when they made a big jump, and now is working with NE.

This right here to me is the exact kind of unrealistic expectations I mean when people are talking about FO roles and this VP or Pres role. If Smith were brought on board, I think expectations about a number 2 should be severely curtailed from a guy like Horitz. And Smith is actually a guy I could see as a kind of "higher touch" GM hire who would delegate more and maybe be lower touch, but if someone like him were the hire, I think his GM-assistant GM, whatever is gonna be a step down from someone like Horitz. You're looking for a guy maybe trying to make that jump into a number 2 role, not a guy who arguably already is a number 2 role at an awesome org.

Maybe very optimistically you can swing for the fences with a guy like Kahn in Pittsburgh who rumor has it isn't in line to get the eventual top job there like many thought he was, and might take a lateral move for the chance to build a resume, but even that is highly unlikely wishful thinking.

I know I haven't posted here for a while, but I've stated elsewhere I expect there to just be the GM. I wouldn't bet $5 that Ted is moved on from, so GM will be the top spot for an actual football guy. Smith and Horitz are my two top guys. There was speculation that Smith would prefer to come back in a less time consuming role so that was why the mock went in that direction. I'd be ecstatic with either of them as the GM.

[The Cooler King]

This right here to me is the exact kind of unrealistic expectations I mean when people are talking about FO roles and this VP or Pres role. If Smith were brought on board, I think expectations about a number 2 should be severely curtailed from a guy like Horitz. And Smith is actually a guy I could see as a kind of "higher touch" GM hire who would delegate more and maybe be lower touch, but if someone like him were the hire, I think his GM-assistant GM, whatever is gonna be a step down from someone like Horitz. You're looking for a guy maybe trying to make that jump into a number 2 role, not a guy who arguably already is a number 2 role at an awesome org.

Maybe very optimistically you can swing for the fences with a guy like Kahn in Pittsburgh who rumor has it isn't in line to get the eventual top job there like many thought he was, and might take a lateral move for the chance to build a resume, but even that is highly unlikely wishful thinking.

I know I haven't posted here for a while, but I've stated elsewhere I expect there to just be the GM. I wouldn't bet $5 that Ted is moved on from, so GM will be the top spot for an actual football guy. Smith and Horitz are my two top guys. There was speculation that Smith would prefer to come back in a less time consuming role so that was why the mock went in that direction. I'd be ecstatic with either of them as the GM.

I mocked up a Smith idea where he retains Champ Kelley and "promotes" him to GM, even though it wouldn't probably still be a true number 1, typical GM role, but being an internal promotion, maybe Champ bites and stays for a at least a while in what would be a really strong number 2 role (presuming Smith does want a lighter touch role).
Whether Smith would or not who knows, but there could be some Denver connections there that might make them familiar which each other? That's about as optimistic a scenario as I can entertain though and it's largely predicated on the fact that the GM hire is internal. If it was external I'd drop it down a couple pegs in expectations.

For a real life example, look at who Pace pegged as his number 2 guy when he got hired. Josh Lucas was a 35 year old regional scout and was hired as Director of Player Personnel. Sure there was familiarity there from the Saints, but Pace didn't get lateral transfers in general. And it's not just accidental. Teams block guys or guys turn down offers if they're in a comfortable spot. Same thing often happens with coachimg staffs. Absent a fired guy taking his whole staff over (Ala Reid from PHI to KC), it's just one of those understated disadvantages of starting over the HC/GM roles.

I'd be happy with Rick Smith as the hire, whatever the title, but I am not going to draw his number 2 guy from a typical list of another 5 hot would be GM candidates, just because there were some title bumps.

[Sugashane]

I know I haven't posted here for a while, but I've stated elsewhere I expect there to just be the GM. I wouldn't bet $5 that Ted is moved on from, so GM will be the top spot for an actual football guy. Smith and Horitz are my two top guys. There was speculation that Smith would prefer to come back in a less time consuming role so that was why the mock went in that direction. I'd be ecstatic with either of them as the GM.

I mocked up a Smith idea where he retains Champ Kelley and "promotes" him to GM, even though it wouldn't probably still be a true number 1, typical GM role, but being an internal promotion, maybe Champ bites and stays for a at least a while in what would be a really strong number 2 role (presuming Smith does want a lighter touch role).
Whether Smith would or not who knows, but there could be some Denver connections there that might make them familiar which each other? That's about as optimistic a scenario as I can entertain though and it's largely predicated on the fact that the GM hire is internal. If it was external I'd drop it down a couple pegs in expectations.

For a real life example, look at who Pace pegged as his number 2 guy when he got hired. Josh Lucas was a 35 year old regional scout and was hired as Director of Player Personnel. Sure there was familiarity there from the Saints, but Pace didn't get lateral transfers in general. And it's not just accidental. Teams block guys or guys turn down offers if they're in a comfortable spot. Same thing often happens with coachimg staffs. Absent a fired guy taking his whole staff over (Ala Reid from PHI to KC), it's just one of those understated disadvantages of starting over the HC/GM roles.

I'd be happy with Rick Smith as the hire, whatever the title, but I am not going to draw his number 2 guy from a typical list of another 5 hot would be GM candidates, just because there were some title bumps.

I like the idea of Kelly getting the move up, but if Smith were to come here my best guess would be Rob Kisiel coming over to be his number 2. Smith promoted him to pro personnel director in 2017 and Caserio wanted to bring his own guy in. Familiarity is a huge part of the game for them.

I know teams blocking was an issue before, but they can't block staff from interviewing or being hired to promotions anymore, so you can't block a QB coach from becoming an OC or a scout from being an Ast GM. In 2020 they made it so teams can't block scouts/executives/front office from promoting up too. Part of the deal after everything that happened with Caserio being blocked. Lateral moves and demotions to get out of a contract can absolutely be blocked, but promotional opportunities can't anymore.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... interviews

[The Cooler King]

I mocked up a Smith idea where he retains Champ Kelley and "promotes" him to GM, even though it wouldn't probably still be a true number 1, typical GM role, but being an internal promotion, maybe Champ bites and stays for a at least a while in what would be a really strong number 2 role (presuming Smith does want a lighter touch role).
Whether Smith would or not who knows, but there could be some Denver connections there that might make them familiar which each other? That's about as optimistic a scenario as I can entertain though and it's largely predicated on the fact that the GM hire is internal. If it was external I'd drop it down a couple pegs in expectations.

For a real life example, look at who Pace pegged as his number 2 guy when he got hired. Josh Lucas was a 35 year old regional scout and was hired as Director of Player Personnel. Sure there was familiarity there from the Saints, but Pace didn't get lateral transfers in general. And it's not just accidental. Teams block guys or guys turn down offers if they're in a comfortable spot. Same thing often happens with coachimg staffs. Absent a fired guy taking his whole staff over (Ala Reid from PHI to KC), it's just one of those understated disadvantages of starting over the HC/GM roles.

I'd be happy with Rick Smith as the hire, whatever the title, but I am not going to draw his number 2 guy from a typical list of another 5 hot would be GM candidates, just because there were some title bumps.

I like the idea of Kelly getting the move up, but if Smith were to come here my best guess would be Rob Kisiel coming over to be his number 2. Smith promoted him to pro personnel director in 2017 and Caserio wanted to bring his own guy in. Familiarity is a huge part of the game for them.

I know teams blocking was an issue before, but they can't block staff from interviewing or being hired to promotions anymore, so you can't block a QB coach from becoming an OC or a scout from being an Ast GM. In 2020 they made it so teams can't block scouts/executives/front office from promoting up too. Part of the deal after everything that happened with Caserio being blocked. Lateral moves and demotions to get out of a contract can absolutely be blocked, but promotional opportunities can't anymore.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... interviews

I think the FO rule is still untested. I mean only 1/4 of the league uses an assistant GM title publically. But I'd presume the other 24 teams all are an argument away from claiming at least one guy as a "bona fide assistant GM". Not sure if it can be more than one per team or not. That still potentially represents a lot of names off the potential number 2 list as you're looking at number 3's now. But even if you can't be blocked outright, the difference between a number 2 and number 3 rule might not be big enough for every guy to even want to move.

[The Cooler King]

Anyways yea, the Kisiel guy is a perfect example. Never seen his name as a potential GM hire and he looks like he's a senior scout. So he'd probably be super available if Smith were to want to make him his second in command. If that's what people wanna throw out, perfect. It's basically the same structure we all know then IMO.

[Grizzled]

Mike Glennon. Mitchell Trubiskey. Nick Foles. Andy Dalton. 'Nuff said.

[Sugashane]

I like the idea of Kelly getting the move up, but if Smith were to come here my best guess would be Rob Kisiel coming over to be his number 2. Smith promoted him to pro personnel director in 2017 and Caserio wanted to bring his own guy in. Familiarity is a huge part of the game for them.

I know teams blocking was an issue before, but they can't block staff from interviewing or being hired to promotions anymore, so you can't block a QB coach from becoming an OC or a scout from being an Ast GM. In 2020 they made it so teams can't block scouts/executives/front office from promoting up too. Part of the deal after everything that happened with Caserio being blocked. Lateral moves and demotions to get out of a contract can absolutely be blocked, but promotional opportunities can't anymore.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2020/ ... interviews

I think the FO rule is still untested. I mean only 1/4 of the league uses an assistant GM title publically. But I'd presume the other 24 teams all are an argument away from claiming at least one guy as a "bona fide assistant GM". Not sure if it can be more than one per team or not. That still potentially represents a lot of names off the potential number 2 list as you're looking at number 3's now. But even if you can't be blocked outright, the difference between a number 2 and number 3 rule might not be big enough for every guy to even want to move.

All really good points.

It would really depend on how big of a jump they are getting and if they REALLY believe in the new GM. One way to spin it is that a lot of guys may be looked over because DeCosta, Veach, or Licht (just examples) is thought to be the only reason for the choices being made. Seeing someone as part of a rebuild like Chicago could arguably be seen as a major reason for them to get a GM job offer in the next few years and for them to get more experience. If the jump is too small then it could definitely be seen as a more dangerous move for future growth.

That is one reason I like Eliot Wolf. He has been part of GB's success, spent time and saw CLE make big strides, and now is getting to see how Bill runs things in NE as a consultant. That is a broad stroke of experience from 3 organizations with pretty significant differences in set up and positions their rosters were in while he was there.

[Sugashane]

Mike Glennon. Mitchell Trubiskey. Nick Foles. Andy Dalton. 'Nuff said.

Plus handing Chase Daniel $10 mil for 2 years. Perfectly stupid considering Daniel had proven nothing after throwing less than 80 passes, 1 TD and 1 INT in his previous 8 seasons combined...

Nothing says "mentor" when you threw more passes in a few weeks of your rookie year than your mentor did his first 8 years...

[Wounded Bear]

Everyone arguing for Pace being competent is like watching someone with Stockholm Syndrome. It’s just sad the mental gymnastics needed to make an argument for a guy clearly in over his head.

Any GM who puts together an offensive line like that after drafting “generational talent” like Justin Fields should be immediately fired at the end of the season. It’s fucking criminal.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Everyone arguing for Pace being competent is like watching someone with Stockholm Syndrome. It’s just sad the mental gymnastics needed to make an argument for a guy clearly in over his head.

Any GM who puts together an offensive line like that after drafting “generational talent” like Justin Fields should be immediately fired at the end of the season. It’s fucking criminal.

I'm not sure anyone's arguing that Pace is competent but rather that it's not as clear cut as Nagy where everything has been going downhill since the end of his first year and he's obviously failed at everything he was brought in to do.

Pace has clearly made some major errors but he's also had some successes too. His hit rate in the mid rounds of the draft for example has been very good and he's picked up some decent free agents whilst also missing on others. He inherited the worst defense in franchise history and turned it into the league's best 4 years later, but the offense has remained stubbornly poor. It's more of a mixed bag than with Nagy. The big questions are whether there is a higher degree of talent on the roster than we're seeing because of Nagy's complete ineptitude and is he the root cause of many of the bad signings?

All this talk of 'collaboration' is precisely what has been happening. Pace has been making moves in recent seasons based on Nagy's wants, from overpaying Chase Daniel as a back up/mentor familiar with Nagy's offense to trading away Howard as a bad fit, this has been happening since Day One. Pace has continually endeavoured to get Nagy what he wants player-wise for his offense. This has led to a series of dreadful moves because it doesn't matter who Nagy's had to work with he's been utterly incapable of getting his offense to function. Pace's biggest mistake wasn't Trubisky, it was hiring Matt Nagy. If he is fired then that will by why and he'll only have himself to blame. On the other hand, if he remains and gets the next coach right then maybe, just maybe, we'll find that Pace's eye for talent is actually better than a lot of GMs.

As for offensive line, it's certainly not great but it's not as bad as you're making out. After the antihalation against Cleveland it's been 'OK'. The running game in particular has been very solid. It's not easy to find offensive line rankings and performance stats, and many websites that do keep them are behind pay walls, but I did come across these:

After Week 7, Pro Football Network had the Bears' O-line ranked 18th in the league.
(https://www.profootballnetwork.com/best ... -for-2021/)

After Week 10, Pro Football Focus had the Bears' O-line ranked 22nd and had this to say:

22. CHICAGO BEARS (UP 9)
Best-graded: T Jason Peters | 76.7
Worst-graded: C Sam Mustipher | 51.3

You could easily have been led into thinking that the Bears have the worst offensive line in the league based on some of the results and the hysteria surrounding the group over the first half of the season. The truth is far from it.

Their line isn’t good, but it is perfectly manageable, and the best player they have plays the most important position. Jason Peters, breathing down the neck of his 40th birthday, has allowed just 17 total pressures in nine games and has PFF grades of at least 70.0 in both run blocking and pass protection. The line certainly has some issues, but it’s an average to below-average unit that has been looking far worse due to the rest of the offense.

(https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-week-10-of ... kings-2021)

Currently, The Undroppables has the Bears' O-line ranked 19th overall (although bizarrely they still list Wilkinson at RT).
(https://www.theundroppables.com/ranking ... sive-line/)

That's a pretty consistent set of rankings to suggest that the line is slightly below average but far from the worst in the league.

[RichH55]

ESPN does grades too - and we are about the same there - It's not a terrible OL. It's not great either - but people have to have extremes

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Do you have a link RichH55?

I just did a search and came across this: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/321 ... s#pbwrteam

This appears to have the Bears ranked much higher, at 9th for pass blocking (Team Pass Block Win Rate: 63%) and 11th for run blocking (Team Run Block Win Rate: 71%).