Pulse Taking - Nagy & Pace 1

[Moriarty]

Given what you know now and your best guess at what will transpire over the rest of the season -
Do you want Nagy & Pace back?


Yes, I know we don't have to decide now, yes, future events could change the situation. Blah, blah, blah.
Where are you at right now?

Also: Bears still aren't talking about existing contracts. The most prevalent belief is that Pace got extended to match Nagy, so let's assume they both have 1 year left on their deals.

Bonus: I put lots of combinations in the options, but didn't have room for strength of feeling. So feel free to specify how firm you are on your opinion. (IE, leaning vs adamant)

[dplank]

Nagy goes and Pace gets one more year for me. We gave Nagy another shot with a new QB before launching him (theoretically), so I’d let Pace hire a new coach and see if things turn around.

[Hema2.0]

I'm at the blow it all up stage of my Bears fandom and want them both gone, so that gets my vote.

But I believe Pace will stay and Nagy is a goner. I'd be just as happy.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Nagy goes and Pace gets one more year for me. We gave Nagy another shot with a new QB before launching him (theoretically), so I’d let Pace hire a new coach and see if things turn around.

The problem with that dplank is that Pace then gets to hire a new HC and there wouldn't be time to evaluate whether he was good hire or not before Pace's 1 year extension was up.

It seems to me that either you get rid of both Pace and Nagy together or you extend Pace for long enough to see how his next HC hire does. It can't be a halfway house proposition.

[dave99]

Highest and best use.
Nagy's best use is an offensive assistant to a real HC or OC
Pace's best use is a scout digging up nuggets for a real GM.
At this point it is blindly clear they are both in over their heads.
So are George and Ted, but they come with the furniture.

[crueltyabc]

Prediction: I don't see why George would fire them this year after keeping them last year. I think we waste another year of Fields' young career with mediocre offensive coaching.

What I want: A high-end OC for Fields. I don't see how we get one without firing Nagy so he's gotta go. I think Pace has basically been OK but I don't think OK is good enough so I'd like him to go, too.

[TheWorldBreaker]

For Fields sake, I think they should both get one more year. Although I honestly don’t really feel good about it.

Having a tumultuous off season in which your rookie QB has to mesh with a new staff and learn a whole new system is not how you develop a QB. That’s a NY Jets type approach and that obviously hasn’t worked.

Say what you want about the ineptness of the Nagy offense but at least Fields already knows it, so will be able to focus on diagnosing defenses. And by the end of the season the staff will know what Fields likes and is good at, so will have an off season to tweak and build the offense around him.

And Pace will have a chance to actually add some elite talent to the offensive side of the ball (instead of bargain shopping) for once in his tenure.

[Moriarty]

Prediction: I don't see why George would fire them this year after keeping them last year. I think we waste another year of Fields' young career with mediocre offensive coaching.

Well, last year they used:

Pace created a Great Culture
Pace steered us through the COVID challenge
We're close, oh so close. I mean, we're a playoff team and all.


Playoffs could easily not materialize this year (50/50ish?)
COVID isn't as big a deal, operationally speaking, this year. Protocols were already established and in place for most things.

That leaves only 1.5 of last year's 3 excuses for Pace.
Nagy is long out of excuses.

I think Pace has basically been OK but I don't think OK is good enough so I'd like him to go, too.

Ah, if only the McCaskey's understood that "it could be a lot worse" isn't how you make these decisions.

[malk]

I think Nagy can still be a good head coach if, and it's a big one, he can fully learn that he doesn't need to have a complicated system with him calling the plays.

Pace is fundamentally flawed as a GM and needs to be gone asap.

[The Cooler King]

I would fire both as of today. I'm quite a bit warmer on Pace, but I just don't have the, uh, conviction, as Pace would say. And I've been saying they're a package deal for like a year now.

I'd put my chances of Nagy changing my mind at 1.5%. Like the offense would have to average like 27+ points a game from here on out and be consistent as well. And make the playoffs with a winning record.

Pace is tougher. I don't think anything can really change my mind, hes just tied to Nagy in my mind. But if it plays out that he stays I'm certainly not going to be all huffed about it. It is what it is and I don't think he's hopeless, but I just don't love the odds of a turnaround with him at the helm.

[Otis Day]

Say what you want about the ineptness of the Nagy offense but at least Fields already knows it, so will be able to focus on diagnosing defenses. And by the end of the season the staff will know what Fields likes and is good at, so will have an off season to tweak and build the offense around him.

Pretty optimistic there. I don't see Nagy tweaking shit. It is his offense, be damned. It has been Lazor doing the tweaking.

They both can go if you ask me. If you get competent people in here is not going to matter if Fields has to learn a new O. You can bet the new guy will cater to what is here and not try to ram an offense down their throats that doesn't match the personnel.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Say what you want about the ineptness of the Nagy offense but at least Fields already knows it, so will be able to focus on diagnosing defenses. And by the end of the season the staff will know what Fields likes and is good at, so will have an off season to tweak and build the offense around him.

Pretty optimistic there. I don't see Nagy tweaking shit. It is his offense, be damned. It has been Lazor doing the tweaking.

They both can go if you ask me. If you get competent people in here is not going to matter if Fields has to learn a new O. You can bet the new guy will cater to what is here and not try to ram an offense down their throats that doesn't match the personnel.

I’d say it’s more optimistic to expect the McCaskey’s to hire competent people. Remember these are the same people that thought Phil Emery would be a good GM. Some Phil Emery 2.0 type and someone like Jeff Fisher being dragged out of the gutter and hired is a real possibility with this ownership group.

You’re also banking on them hiring a staff that actually likes and believes in Fields which isn’t a guarantee. Even if they say they like him, they didn’t invest in him, so if he struggles early they could lose faith in him and want their own guy. That appeared to be what happened with Nagy and Mitch. Although it turned out Fox didn’t want Mitch either.

And learning a new offense matters because it will be time taken away from other things important to his development.

[The Marshall Plan]

Fire them all and let God sort them out.

Firing Nagy should be obvious.

Pace whiffed on Watson and Mahomes and took Mitch. He should've been fired years ago.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Nagy must go, sooner rather than later - I'd like to see Pace get another year.

Whatever leadership skills Nagy brings to the table, his worth as a head coach appears to be significantly negated by a pedestrian football intellect - I'm hoping for his departure after game 9.

[Mikefive]

I'm done with Nagy. He's a super nice guy and if he were single, I'd be OK with him dating my daughter. But he was brought here to resurrect the offense and now that he's been figured out, he's a disaster. I could give him a shot if he would hand over OC duties. But he is showing for the second time that he just can't keep his hands off. If the guys an offense expert and his offense sucks, all he's good at is being a nice guy. See ya.

Pace is a tougher decision. He's blown it with Mitch, Glennon and Nagy, for sure. But he's made a number of really good decisions, too. The defense was crap and it's been consistently very good. And the depth is improving as well. And he's rebuilt the interior of the OL. He brought us ARob who got us 1200 yards last year. And Mooney in the 5th round. And Montgomery and Herbert. And we now have a couple of promising OTs that are now both injured, but in the pipeline. Yes, he's had some stinkers. But he's also done some good. I guess I'd give him one more year to learn from his Nagy mistake. Maybe more.

And did I mention... I think we now have a QB?

[Umbali]

I just dont have faith that Nagy can develop Fields.
I dont have faith that Pace will put an Oline around Fields to protect him.
I dont have faith that Pace wont keep mortgaging the future to save his job.

[Arkansasbear]

I don’t see anyway they don’t both get extensions after we win the Super Bowl so that was my vote.

[G08]

What do I think will happen?

Pace and Nagy get one more year, unless this team falls apart at the seams the rest of this season. At that point, I still think Pace stays and Nagy goes.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I think that Pace is showing growth in his GM responsibilities. I see a lot of value in his 2nd and 3rd day picks. Any GM can win in the 1st round. It's the later rounds where the good GM's make their hay. I think that Pace has shown significant improvement in that area over the last few years. On both sides of the ball. Nagy is a disaster, and has shown no improvement over the last three years. Nothing that he has done has worked out. Nagy goes, Pace gets an extension and hires the right coach next time.

[Z Bear]

There are so many variables that will playout the rest of the year it is really no good answer right now. If they get hot and end up 11+ wins then you keep them both no questions asked, that will be still no losing seasons under Nagy and playoffs 3 out of 4 years. If they end up 7 and 10 or worse then you blow it up. Nagy wants to be an offensive coordinator so bad the best option is to fire him and let him go be one (too bad he is a terrible play caller, good luck Matt!) Pace is a good talent evaluator, but his cap management and draft pick management sucks. He tends to overpay to move up in the draft and to sign our own players (EJax, Cohen, DT, Quinn).

[HurricaneBear]

If Matt Nagy could be a head coach and just manage this team, I think he would be a keeper. But he has proven time and time again he just can't. It will be his downfall and it's sad because I believe it's all because he couldnt make it as a player in the NFL and is trying to live his dreams out with "his offense".

The next stretch of games will be very telling. The Packers game was the easiest loss to predict in the history of predictions, followed closely by this weeks coming slaughter at the hands of the GOAT. How he manages to get this team to rebound vs the 49ers and Steelers will be very telling if he has lost the locker room. The Bears should win 1, if not both of those games. If the team falls apart I could see Nagy being fired this offseason. If the team sticks together, regardless of the final record, him and Pace get another year.

But some of the comments from players this year, added to some years past, make me think the locker room is teetering right now. I think Nagy will do enough to keep the team together to ensure one more season that is the make or break year for him and Pace. But next season at the first sign of the same shit different season, this team falls apart to the tune of a 3-14 like season

[Burl]

My suspicion is that Pace will get another HC hire if Nagy flames out this year.

One item I've not seen mentioned is that remember, George and Ted were both in on the HC evaluations and hiring, and all said they were unanimous in the Nagy decision. (I know, they kind of have to say that). But what I'm getting at is that maybe it mitigates some of laying blame at Pace's feet for the poor hire since they were all bamboozled/sweet talked in the interview process.

Considering the potential new stadium and all coming on line, all the work Pace did to improve facilities at Halas Hall, etc. I could see the rationale for retaining him as a stabilizing force for some time. Mediocre is better than outright bad.

[IE]

I just can't get myself to get back into Nagy's corner. Even with Lazor calling the plays it still smells to me like Nagy's offense and themes with only a Lazor twist. And I really have always had a problem with Nagy's assessment and use of personnel. I think he plays players he likes versus ones who can do the best job. And I think he likes the ones that are the most agreeable to his "offense". I've concluded that even fully extracting himself from the play calling doesn't do the trick. The only way I'd want him staying is if he completely turns over the offensive philosophy and player usage to the offensive coaches. Which he will never ever do. So good-bye.

I've been in Pace's corner and applaud his drafting of JF1 and many other players. I think he HAS built a team that is really solid in the trenches (even if they've had bad luck on the Oline). But if you look at the teams at a high level his weaknesses in certain areas has become conspicuous:

- he misses in his judgement of DBs, even though he seems great with the front 7. (how important is this in the modern NFL?)
- he misses with receivers even though he seems great with RBs (how important is this in the modern NFL?)

Can he address those weaknesses and get better overall? Or is he stubborn in his opinions and will continue to field a team that is weak in both receiving and defending the pass?

I voted Pace to be fired too. I don't hate him. I just really don't want him picking the next coach or assisting in hiring coordinators. I think his mistakes in the past (eg. hiring a QB coach with zero team-leading experience to be HC) will cause him to overreact and miss on legit candidates. I think this team has a lot of talent in key areas but needs a fresh start with no fear of making certain hiring decisions. And it definitely needs a modern outlook at both GM and HC to properly address the weaknesses and field a complete team that can play 21st century football.

[The Cooler King]

Even in the "Nagy steps back as a HC only scenario" I don't think it's exactly like Lazor is the answer either for the O. Is Nagy going to be able to bring in the right OC talent? Teams will block a lot of the best options and then out of what's left, Nagy has to ID the right guy, and that guy has to believe it will really be his show to run.

It's just not a great scenario, IMO. You bring in a young hot coordinator to fix one side of the ball, and if they fail it seems to me messy to rewind and try it a different way.

[TheWorldBreaker]

My suspicion is that Pace will get another HC hire if Nagy flames out this year.

One item I've not seen mentioned is that remember, George and Ted were both in on the HC evaluations and hiring, and all said they were unanimous in the Nagy decision. (I know, they kind of have to say that). But what I'm getting at is that maybe it mitigates some of laying blame at Pace's feet for the poor hire since they were all bamboozled/sweet talked in the interview process.

Considering the potential new stadium and all coming on line, all the work Pace did to improve facilities at Halas Hall, etc. I could see the rationale for retaining him as a stabilizing force for some time. Mediocre is better than outright bad.

The lengths some of you will go to absolve Pace of responsibility for his decisions is astonishing.

First there was the conspiracy that he was forced to hire Fox and now the entire organization was “bamboozled” by Nagy’s supposed Rasputin like sweet talk.

This is nonsense.

He’s responsible for both decisions. Even if Nagy is an amazing sweet talker, he had only been a coach in the NFL for 10 years when he was hired. A smart GM would have been concerned it was too early because of his relative lack of experience.

But Ryan Pace is not a smart GM. From ignoring his own head coach’s evaluation and drafting Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson, to consistently over paying in free agency, and trading up for players that aren’t as coveted as he imagines (and who don’t pan out), literally nothing indicates he is a smart GM worthy of these multiple benefits of the doubt for his bad decisions.

[wab]

I'm in a pretty small minority here, but I actually like a lot of what Pace has done as a GM. I'm pretty sour on Nagy. He's just not doing what he was hired to do, and that's really all that matters.

[G08]

I'm in a pretty small minority here, but I actually like a lot of what Pace has done as a GM. I'm pretty sour on Nagy. He's just not doing what he was hired to do, and that's really all that matters.

He's not without his flaws, but I agree in that I think he's done a decent job as a GM. I think his biggest issue is "collaborating" with a head coach that, thus far, has shown he has no idea what he's doing on offense.

Draft picks and free agents that are doing well:

Goldman
Amos
Floyd
Whitehair
Kwiatkoski
Howard
DHC
Jackson
Cohen
Roquan Smith
Daniels
Nichols
Montgomery
Kmet (we'll see...)
Jaylon Johnson
Gipson (we'll see...)
Mooney
Fields
Jenkins/Borom (we'll see...)
Herbert

Trevathan
Hicks
Robinson (I guess...)
Khalil Mack Trade
Quinn (maybe...)


Over the course of 7 seasons, including overhauling Halas Hall, this isn't bad.

[thunderspirit]

First there was the conspiracy that he was forced to hire Fox...

Nothing anyone says is likely to ever convince me he had autonomy in that decision.

[wab]

First there was the conspiracy that he was forced to hire Fox...

Nothing anyone says is likely to ever convince me he had autonomy in that decision.

Yeah, there's no conspiracy. That hire was made for him.

[Mr.Irrelevant]

In all honesty I think they both become locked in through 2022 with the drafting of Fields. Assuming of course there's not a total meltdown and a 5-12 season.

If Nagy gets fired and Pace stays this off season then you're letting Pace pick the next coach and need to lock him in for that coaches duration. I don't think he's earned that privilege.

If Pace goes and Nagy stays this off season then Nagy is dead coach walking under a new GM - and we'll be rebuilding again in 2023 anyway.

The players are saying that the offense is about to "pop" any week now, but with a rookie QB and a tough schedule it's hard to see that happening. I give them both a year to get Fields up to speed and make the decision then. I say this reluctantly though, as the number of FA's that will need to be signed after this year could really tie a new GM's hands for years to come.