Updates on Jenkins and Borom

[crueltyabc]

I'm with you G08 and I'd add a decent investment in a swing tackle to back up those youngsters.

[dplank]

We have no first round pick and just invested 2 picks last year on OT's. JMO, but OT is off the board for our upcoming draft unless it's a late round developmental type. We have a lot of holes to fill and whether we see Jenkins play or not, our roster/cap/draft situation dictates our position here. We will need a swing tackle either way. I wish we would've kept Lucas, he showed promise and looks to be starting right now in DC.

Wilkenson can go - availability matters and he's been both hurt and on Covid lists because he won't get vaxxed. You can't count on him because of that, so bye bye. I'd actually bring Peters back if he wants to play a rotation/mentor/backup kind of role, but I doubt he'd be interested in that. Simmons and Hambright need to go, they simply can't play so bring in different developmental projects.

I want to draft OL, but I'd be looking inside. I have a tendency in the 2nd/3rd rounds where I like to take top players at devalued positions - like G/C/RB/MLB because you can get the best available talent at those positions with later picks.

FYI Cruelty...the Fins have won 5 straight and their OL has gelled. It took a little time to come together.

[RichH55]

I disagree that Tackle should be off the board - for a number of reasons (You don't have 5 OL - you can always move

BUT the bigger reason - Why pigeonhole yourself like that in the draft? Take the best player available - Draft Good Football players

[dplank]

I disagree that Tackle should be off the board - for a number of reasons (You don't have 5 OL - you can always move

BUT the bigger reason - Why pigeonhole yourself like that in the draft? Take the best player available - Draft Good Football players

Would you draft QB in Rd 2 if he was your highest rated left? BPA has limits, particularly when you don't have a 1st round pick. We don't have luxury here, we need to be pragmatic. It's BPA, but with a filter applied that excludes a few positions from consideration (QB, OT, RB). In our draft position there will be probably 20+ players with roughly the same grades on them, it's not like we'd pass on a Top 5 type pick just because he was at the wrong position. In the wildly unlikey circumstance something like that happened, then yea position be damned take the player. But in reality, there's always big clumps of guys closely rated, and you go to positional need in that case.

[Moriarty]

Borom seems to be settling in a RT. They have one, maybe two guards and they probably need a center.
They need to get film of Jenkins so the next coach (GM?) can evaluate OL needs.
Justin Fields is the future but priority #1 is to get a good offensive line in front of him.
They may or may not have the makings one now.
They need to know for sure.

Dave - how will they be able to know for sure on Jenkins?

Usually LT struggle as Rookies to some degree (even the good ones ) - to the point where even some greats they started with a year at Guard before moving them out (Jonathan Ogden for example)

So - 4 games and we are gonna "know"?

It's very fair to suggest that we may watch for a few games and the results may be inconclusive.

I would WAG that if we see him play 3-4 full games, maybe

20% he's so solid right off that we feel really good about rolling with him & Borom in 22 and just worry about some depth. (After all, people are/got all excited about Borom in a shorter time frame than that. And he missed significant time, too.)
20% he's so bad or physically hampered that we feel really bad about relying on him, have to plan on finding a starter (long or short term) and if he ever gives you anything at T (or anywhere), it's gravy.
60% you watch and feel like you didn't really learn much


As long as doctors say he's past the point of added reinjury risk by not waiting longer, why not see if you learn anything?
Nagy isn't coming back. Playoffs aren't happening (2 games out and 6 teams to leapfrog). The team has tons of expiring contracts, beyond the usual New HC Turnover, so "winning culture/continuity/momentum/whatever nonsense coachspeak" really isn't an issue.


Early 2 is a place where you can sometimes land a solid T prospect. CB is far and away the top contender in my book, but sometimes they are plundered by then. If they're out, OT/WR/S/DL* (* maybe, depending on what happens with Nichols) are your next tier of R2 considerations.

[dplank]

Besides evaluation, don't forget that the kid needs live reps in real games to get acclimated to the NFL. A month of playing the last 4-5 weeks would do wonders for him heading into 2022 IMO.

[spudbear]

Besides evaluation, don't forget that the kid needs live reps in real games to get acclimated to the NFL. A month of playing the last 4-5 weeks would do wonders for him heading into 2022 IMO.

I believe Peters has been helping him out. I'd like to see Jenkins play part of a game where Peters starts, then Jenkins comes in against the same players Peters just blocked. Then they would have tape to compare how the vet did it vs the rookie, things to improve on and things the rookie did well. Peters probably wouldn't mind a break in the game either.

[The Cooler King]

Besides evaluation, don't forget that the kid needs live reps in real games to get acclimated to the NFL. A month of playing the last 4-5 weeks would do wonders for him heading into 2022 IMO.

If there's any question about his fitness to play a full game, what difference do we think a full 4-5 weeks verse maybe some part time play and maybe 2 weeks of full time snaps makes? Snap wise it's a big percent difference but pretty small in aggregate snaps. Is there a threshold that we feel really makes the meaningful impact for 2022? 150 snaps? 300?

[malk]

I think there is general agreement with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to send Leno packing and keep Graham. The cost is close to a wash. It was initially defend-able with expectation that Jenkins could at least hold his own at LT and be a big upgrade in the run game even if he struggled a bit as a rookie in pass pro. But once Jenkins showed to be injured and out of service, it made Pace's decision conspicuous. IMO Pace was clearly surprised.

On Jenkins playing right away... this has been thoroughly discussed and I think general agreement that Jenkins should play right away even though there is some disagreement about how much. In reality he'll likely be eased in on a part-time basis at first. So it doesn't really make sense to argue about whether he should start or not - very soon we'll see him playing and his performance will paint the picture. IF he shows that he can start, he'll certainly get the chance this season. Personally I'd like to see both he and Borom at both RT and LT before the end of the season. If "giving a player who may struggle a head start on next year" is the goal... then let's not pretend that continuity at the bookends is a big deal.

I was actually fine with cutting Leno and don't really think it's fair to blame Pace for that in hindsight, i know rite! The injuries we later had on the line were incredibly tough to over come but in a very narrow sense we replaced Leno with Peters and he's been serviceable, giving up only 5 sacks whilst playing 95% of our offensive snaps in less than ideal circumstances. We should have got rid of Graham as well but the Leno move worked out fine imo.

Having no Jenkins, Borom or Ifedi for the first half of the season was really bad, but no GM can meaningfully account for losing three players in one position. It would have been different if one of those players had come in and bombed but Borom has been decent so the logic was sound, we just got screwed by luck.

[wab]

Scouting reps against NFL talent will be helpful for a GM deciding how much to spend on a swing tackle in the off season. With Nagy's plan of playing Peters for the rest of the season, the GM will be basing projections off a small number of reps against high-level talent in college and a small number of padded practices so even just a handful of games would be a dramatic increase in the data available.

This is kind of the case when any new GM comes in.

[Arkansasbear]

Did Jenkins get any form of snaps last week - i.e. special teams?

[Moriarty]

Did Jenkins get any form of snaps last week - i.e. special teams?

2 snaps on ST

[dplank]

Besides evaluation, don't forget that the kid needs live reps in real games to get acclimated to the NFL. A month of playing the last 4-5 weeks would do wonders for him heading into 2022 IMO.

If there's any question about his fitness to play a full game, what difference do we think a full 4-5 weeks verse maybe some part time play and maybe 2 weeks of full time snaps makes? Snap wise it's a big percent difference but pretty small in aggregate snaps. Is there a threshold that we feel really makes the meaningful impact for 2022? 150 snaps? 300?

No difference and I don’t want to rush him. When he’s healthy play him, that’s all

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Castillo's take on both Jenkins and Borom:

Rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins played two snaps on special teams against the Cardinals, but don’t expect to see him starting at left tackle if the Bears are eliminated from playoff contention. Not even line coach Juan Castillo thinks it would be a big benefit.

“He’s getting a lot of experience just in practice and watching Jason Peters, who’s probably going to be a first-ballot Hall of Fame guy,” Castillo said. “We have so many preseason games. We have so many OTAs. I don’t think it’s that important.”

Rookie right tackle Larry Borom is ranked 60th among NFL tackles by Pro Football Focus — with one sack allowed. To the naked eye, Borom has been impressive for a rookie. Castillo said you can win a Super Bowl with Borom at right tackle — not based on how good he’ll be, but on how good he is now. He’s played that well.

“Yes, because he’s big and athletic,” Castillo said. “So he can handle the bigger guys and now, all of the sudden, he can handle the speed guys because he’s athletic. I think right now he’s good enough for us to win.”

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2021 ... -a-message

[Moriarty]

Castillo's take on both Jenkins and Borom:

Rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins played two snaps on special teams against the Cardinals, but don’t expect to see him starting at left tackle if the Bears are eliminated from playoff contention. Not even line coach Juan Castillo thinks it would be a big benefit.

“He’s getting a lot of experience just in practice and watching Jason Peters, who’s probably going to be a first-ballot Hall of Fame guy,” Castillo said. “We have so many preseason games. We have so many OTAs. I don’t think it’s that important.”

LOL

So Jenkins doesn't need to play to learn. OTAs and preseason games (which he missed all of) and practice and watching Peters is just as good.

[RichH55]

Castillo's take on both Jenkins and Borom:

Rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins played two snaps on special teams against the Cardinals, but don’t expect to see him starting at left tackle if the Bears are eliminated from playoff contention. Not even line coach Juan Castillo thinks it would be a big benefit.

“He’s getting a lot of experience just in practice and watching Jason Peters, who’s probably going to be a first-ballot Hall of Fame guy,” Castillo said. “We have so many preseason games. We have so many OTAs. I don’t think it’s that important.”

LOL

So Jenkins doesn't need to play to learn. OTAs and preseason games (which he missed all of) and practice and watching Peters is just as good.

Hear me out:

This isn't his 1st Day in Football either.

[dplank]

Castillo's take on both Jenkins and Borom:

Rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins played two snaps on special teams against the Cardinals, but don’t expect to see him starting at left tackle if the Bears are eliminated from playoff contention. Not even line coach Juan Castillo thinks it would be a big benefit.

“He’s getting a lot of experience just in practice and watching Jason Peters, who’s probably going to be a first-ballot Hall of Fame guy,” Castillo said. “We have so many preseason games. We have so many OTAs. I don’t think it’s that important.”

LOL

So Jenkins doesn't need to play to learn. OTAs and preseason games (which he missed all of) and practice and watching Peters is just as good.

It's really dumb. Basically runs counter intuitive to every other thing that you do in life. Look how valuable those live game reps have been for Fields! While it's not as important as QB reps, it's absolutely important for OL as well. I think he's posturing/covering for something he knows fans will clamor for and Nagy won't allow - because Bears.

[RichH55]

The OL snaps are way less important than QB snaps IMHO - though I believe you can learn alot by sitting anyway

Biggest leap guys tend to make is from Year 1 to Year 2 - This is often true regardless of relative playing time


Teven has played a lot of Football - this isn't some Jordan Mailata style project. 100 Snaps isn't the difference between bust and All-Pro. It likely isn't moving the needle at all

[dplank]

The OL snaps are way less important than QB snaps IMHO - though I believe you can learn alot by sitting anyway

Biggest leap guys tend to make is from Year 1 to Year 2 - This is often true regardless of relative playing time


Teven has played a lot of Football - this isn't some Jordan Mailata style project. 100 Snaps isn't the difference between bust and All-Pro. It likely isn't moving the needle at all

It moves the needle some, that's just basic logic/common sense - feel free to debate how much. What isn't debatable? Playing Peters moves the ball zero for 2022 - absolutely nada.

[The Cooler King]

Jenkins was quoted as saying he feels great.

I'd say give him some plays as a 6th OL for the Pack this week and then plan to start him down the stretch against what should be much softer Ds the rest of the way.

[RichH55]

The OL snaps are way less important than QB snaps IMHO - though I believe you can learn alot by sitting anyway

Biggest leap guys tend to make is from Year 1 to Year 2 - This is often true regardless of relative playing time


Teven has played a lot of Football - this isn't some Jordan Mailata style project. 100 Snaps isn't the difference between bust and All-Pro. It likely isn't moving the needle at all

It moves the needle some, that's just basic logic/common sense - feel free to debate how much. What isn't debatable? Playing Peters moves the ball zero for 2022 - absolutely nada.

Some being literally more than zero? (*). Ok. Much? Very very very doubtful.

(*) This also massively overlooks the injury risk too - If the back goes again you can't just reset the game Madden style

I would disagree for this reason on Peters - I think the plan is to get Fields back on the Field - And Peters COULD help in that respect .

Though your overall point (I am assuming) that Jenkins will be here and Peters won't is well taken - Fair

I think some of the disagreement - that Back injury scares the heck out of me

[RichH55]

Jenkins was quoted as saying he feels great.

I'd say give him some plays as a 6th OL for the Pack this week and then plan to start him down the stretch against what should be much softer Ds the rest of the way.

Wonder if he said that Pre-Draft too?

[dplank]

Jenkins was quoted as saying he feels great.

I'd say give him some plays as a 6th OL for the Pack this week and then plan to start him down the stretch against what should be much softer Ds the rest of the way.

Seems right to me

[Atkins&Rebel]

May concern with Jenkins is that he might not have functional strength after being out after surgery since August. I would worry that he would try to Compensate his lack of core strength by using his arms or shoulders too much and risk injuring those as well.
His flexibility and ability to roll his hips into a black would also concerned me at this point because core strength and flexibility goes a long way to be able to do that

[IE]

They're going to ease him in. I'm going to guess vs the Pack he's not going to go beyond ST snaps. And then from there he'll start getting spot duty spelling Peters for a couple of games. I was thinking he'd be able to take on that Bars role a bit - but I don't think they want to do that I think they want him to focus on that LT position. And then I'll predict he'll start the last 2 games.

I'd really still seriously prefer that Jenkins play on the right and Borom on the left at some point. That is ignoring the draft and everything else but knowing what we've seen out of Borom looking pretty decent with little prep on the left and Jenkins being a known natural right side brawler. But that's just me.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Bears rookie OT Teven Jenkins feeling 18 years old again

The second-round draft pick missed most of the season after back surgery in August. He’s unlikely to play on offense with LT Jason Peters in front of him, but at this point he’s just glad to be healthy.

By Mark Potash

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2021 ... -old-again

[RichH55]

George Burns playing LT for us does not inspire confidence

[Grizzled]

Borom is likely out Monday night, being in the Covid protocol. Nagy has already said Peters is starting at LT. Will Jenkins be the starter at RT? It's either him or Simmons, who has been an absolute sieve.

[wab]

Borom is likely out Monday night, being in the Covid protocol. Nagy has already said Peters is starting at LT. Will Jenkins be the starter at RT? It's either him or Simmons, who has been an absolute sieve.

I would imagine it's Jenkins at RT with Simmons as the swing. I can't believe that there isn't a better street FA out there than Simmons...but here we are.

[TheWorldBreaker]

Borom is likely out Monday night, being in the Covid protocol. Nagy has already said Peters is starting at LT. Will Jenkins be the starter at RT? It's either him or Simmons, who has been an absolute sieve.

Man, I missed that about Borom.

So Jenkins sucked in his debut and Peters is coming off an injury, so probably won’t be 100%

Great… looks like another prime time disaster is looming.