Pete Carroll Publicly Complains About Lambeau Refs

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I watched part of the Packers v. Seahawks game and I have to agree with him on his three points of contention.

I have NO IDEA how they justified giving the Packers the ball on the fumble recovery, and the interception was not an interception. It's really becoming egregious, and one has to wonder what is going on. How many of these refs are gambling on football? My guess is more than you think. One call here or one call there can shift the entire outcome of the game. Am I suggesting its widespread? No. Am I saying it's more than a couple? Yes. The Lambeau things has to stop though. The NFL & the Packers will start to lose credibility if this crap continues.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/326 ... ay-packers

[Moriarty]

If it was gambling influenced, wouldn't favoring the same team over and over and over be the stupidest, most conspicuous thing you could possibly do?

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

If it was gambling influenced, wouldn't favoring the same team over and over and over be the stupidest, most conspicuous thing you could possibly do?

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm also looking at dozens of other games across the NFL, and the trend toward horrendous calls, and often inexplicable non-calls that have shaped the course of games throughout the season.

[GSH]

its point shaving. they dont need a specific team to win, just need to beat the spread.

[mmmc_35]

[Hero]

If it was gambling influenced, wouldn't favoring the same team over and over and over be the stupidest, most conspicuous thing you could possibly do?

Yes and the NFL is falling for it.

[BearsFanInMN]

I always felt it was just giving the lemmings who pay money for stock in the team that has no real life stock benefits something to passify them. No other team can jump in the stands but you can, etc. Yeah Seattle beat you years ago on a questionable Hail Mary but we have no video of the pass interference that gave you the lead on the series prior. Glad Carroll called it out but won’t change anything.

[Grizzled]

Awww, poor Pete.

It is ruining the enjoyment of watching games when poor officiating is affecting the outcome. There are answers which can be implemented easily with a ref up in a sky box to oversee calls. My god, the technology is there to prevent this from happening. The NFL is too frigging cheap to implement solutions and possibly thinks they will erode the role of on-field refs.

[Otis Day]

Seattle got their ass kicked. Wilson looked below avg, they had not consistent run game and their OL was having problems. Bad calls or not, Seattle was not winning that game. GB was the better team on the field and A A Ron was playing.

Carroll can bitch all he wants, nothing in that game was as bad as what happened in Bears v Steeler game.

[dplank]

All the more reason for Nagy to have stepped up and defended his team after our game. Nagy is a giant puss.

[G08]

One of my favorite memes when it comes to the Chicago fucking Bears.

[Boris13c]

Seattle got their ass kicked. Wilson looked below avg, they had not consistent run game and their OL was having problems. Bad calls or not, Seattle was not winning that game. GB was the better team on the field and A A Ron was playing.

yes, the Seahawks simply did not come to play ... I know they intended to compete and prepared to compete, but they sucked

Carroll can bitch all he wants, nothing in that game was as bad as what happened in Bears v Steeler game.

very true

[mmmc_35]

All the more reason for Nagy to have stepped up and defended his team after our game. Nagy is a giant puss.

Yup

[KOP_Snake]

Of all the complaints I have about Nagy, him not calling out refs publicly to appease the fan's desire to see his inner Ditka is not one of them.

[IE]

All the more reason for Nagy to have stepped up and defended his team after our game. Nagy is a giant puss.

He's Michael Scott but without the lovability.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Of all the complaints I have about Nagy, him not calling out refs publicly to appease the fan's desire to see his inner Ditka is not one of them.

It's not about calling out the refs or fans wanting to see his best Ditka impression, it's about standing up for and defending his players.

A visibly upset Marsh called out the 'very inappropriate' and frankly obvious hip check. Nagy said he didn't see it that way.

Daniels threw a legal block as he had obviously been taught to do in Nagy's scheme and was hit with a TD negating penalty. Nagy didn't see fit to defend it.

Worst of all Nagy saw his precious rookie QB get laid out by a blatant roughing call, one which Fields himself called out at his presser, and Nagy didn't go to town about it.
That just leaves officials free to keep turning a blind eye to illegal hits on Fields instead of piling on the pressure to ensure it doesn't happen again. I'd be willing to bet if Nagy had railed against it then the Bears would be more likely to not only get those blatant calls but also those borderline ones like the helmet-to-helmet and late-slide calls in the Steelers game.

Nagy's always talking about figuring out the 'whys'. Well how about figuring out one of the reasons 'why' calls don't go your way in games is because you don't stand up for your team?

[mmmc_35]

Of all the complaints I have about Nagy, him not calling out refs publicly to appease the fan's desire to see his inner Ditka is not one of them.

That's not it at all. Your the leader, your team clearly got fucked. Your jobs on the line. Sack up. Many successful coaches have used the platform they are given to stick up for their teams. He chose to be a bitch.

[Yogi da Bear]

One thing we learned from this game is that apparently Aaron Rodgers can grasp an opponent's facemask after the play which will result in a flag on the opponent, while DK Metcalf will get ejected for grabbing an opponent's facemask after the play. Good thing we cleared that up.

As to the whole corrupt referee scenario, I've been bitching about it for a long time. It's obvious there are corrupt refs as the same ones seem to keep making the bad calls. And the NFL does absolutely nothing to police them as they don't want to draw the light to them, and they serve a purpose for the league. I think the corruption occurs on two different levels.

First, there's the league wide corruption. This is the corruption promulgated through the league office in that the league office gets the players and matchups they want. This can be called the "Superstar Treatment" if you want. It's why Green Bay has been favored so long with either Aaron Rodgers or Brett Favre at the helm. It's what Tom Brady gets. Nobody benefits from this except for the advantaged players and their teams and the League itself (by having the more compelling matchups in the playoffs and Super Bowl). It's why the league puts up with the really corrupt refs as they're usually the ones who are more than willing to go that extra mile without any specific pay. They're already throwing games anyway so no skin off their nose.

Second, is the corruption that comes from actual point shaving/fixing on a specific basis. For those of you who don't believe that this is possible, you're incredibly naïve. And for those who don't believe that this can't occur in critical games like the Super Bowl, I give you the Pittsburgh/Seattle Super Bowl (with all due deference to fellow Bear fans watching that Steeler Monday Night game) the most heinously called game of all time:



How do you get called for a low block penalty on a tackle? WTF?! Worst call of all time. Even worse than this no call:



Yes, I think both of those games were specifically fixed, just like I think Monday Night's Pitt game was.

As to Pete Carroll, welcome to the Bears World when you're playing a more talented Packer team but the refs are there to absolutely assure the Packer victory. We've been experiencing this twice a year for the last thirty years. Anybody remember the Alshon Jeffery Offensive Pass Interference Game? He had two TDs called back for OPI and then at the end of the game, another long completion called back when there wasn't even any contact at all. I mean none. Another specifically thrown game.

So yeah, Pete, absolutely NO sympathy.

[dplank]

My “go to” example of a game completely dominated by terrible calls is that Pitt/Sea super bowl. The worst officiated game ever, and I had no dog in that fight. By the end I wanted Seattle just because they were so clearly being cheated.

[The Marshall Plan]

I would like to hear a defense of the alternative.

That the league and the refs are some sort of infallible holy priesthood. The Knights Templar of sports that are just incapable of being corrupted.

That doesn’t even make basic sense.

The NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry and arguably the most powerful sports body on the planet behind something like FIFA.

Nah, no chance for corruption there right? These refs just walk out the door with a Bible in one hand and a lightsaber in the other and preach the Good Word.

Yeah right.

[dplank]

I would like to hear a defense of the alternative.

That the league and the refs are some sort of infallible holy priesthood. The Knights Templar of sports that are just incapable of being corrupted.

That doesn’t even make basic sense.

The NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry and arguably the most powerful sports body on the planet behind something like FIFA.

Nah, no chance for corruption there right? These refs just walk out the door with a Bible in one hand and a lightsaber in the other and preach the Good Word.

Yeah right.

I think what gets most people is this black/white view of corruption and cheating. The refs aren't going to blatantly throw games, that would get them caught. But what they absolutely CAN do, is thumb the scale and tilt the game in favor of one side or another. This happens every week. And over time, with enough betting, tilting games will make people a LOT of money even if they aren't "guaranteed" a win on any particular bet. And while many will just say "accidents happen, stop whining", there's more to it when the same accidents happen to (and in favor of) the same teams over a long span of time. Part of it is Jordan Rules stuff that stars get - agree - but IMO that only amplifies the problem, it isn't the whole problem. And is too often cited as a quick excuse to toss aside the unsavory reality that things may actually not be on the up and up here. I'm more convinced than ever that it's true, I don't know the exact makeup of it or anything, but I know something is going on. You don't flip a coin 100 times and have it land on heads 90 times, the odds are astronomical - the reality is you have a weighted coin. I think the league and / or refs, likely both, are weighting games. Packers, Steelers, Patriots are on the favored side, Bears, Saints, and Lions are on the unfavored side. I don't watch enough non-bears football to know who else gets screwed regularly (Seattle maybe).

[The Marshall Plan]

I would like to hear a defense of the alternative.

That the league and the refs are some sort of infallible holy priesthood. The Knights Templar of sports that are just incapable of being corrupted.

That doesn’t even make basic sense.

The NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry and arguably the most powerful sports body on the planet behind something like FIFA.

Nah, no chance for corruption there right? These refs just walk out the door with a Bible in one hand and a lightsaber in the other and preach the Good Word.

Yeah right.

I think what gets most people is this black/white view of corruption and cheating. The refs aren't going to blatantly throw games, that would get them caught. But what they absolutely CAN do, is thumb the scale and tilt the game in favor of one side or another. This happens every week. And over time, with enough betting, tilting games will make people a LOT of money even if they aren't "guaranteed" a win on any particular bet. And while many will just say "accidents happen, stop whining", there's more to it when the same accidents happen to (and in favor of) the same teams over a long span of time. Part of it is Jordan Rules stuff that stars get - agree - but IMO that only amplifies the problem, it isn't the whole problem. And is too often cited as a quick excuse to toss aside the unsavory reality that things may actually not be on the up and up here. I'm more convinced than ever that it's true, I don't know the exact makeup of it or anything, but I know something is going on. You don't flip a coin 100 times and have it land on heads 90 times, the odds are astronomical - the reality is you have a weighted coin. I think the league and / or refs, likely both, are weighting games. Packers, Steelers, Patriots are on the favored side, Bears, Saints, and Lions are on the unfavored side. I don't watch enough non-bears football to know who else gets screwed regularly (Seattle maybe).

That’s exactly what I think happens. Thumbing the scales.

Now at whose direction?

Does it come from the league where they want certain players or storylines promoted? Like the Saints winning the Super Bowl after Hurricane Katrina? The continuous support of the Norman Rockwell like town of Green Bay?

Or do we have referees being slipped envelopes of cash saying to do this or that?

Yes there are favoritisms shown towards QBs. That’s as clear as day and the league all but says it does this. That’s why roughing the passer gets called on every bullshit hit.

But what about the drive killing calls or non-calls for holding? DPI? OPI?

Then you also do have legit mistakes.

For me personally, I think it’s the league. They have their favorites. They have their protected classes. They have their storylines. And while they cannot script it like a movie they definitely can skew things in people’s favor.

[Arkansasbear]

I think what gets most people is this black/white view of corruption and cheating. The refs aren't going to blatantly throw games, that would get them caught. But what they absolutely CAN do, is thumb the scale and tilt the game in favor of one side or another. This happens every week. And over time, with enough betting, tilting games will make people a LOT of money even if they aren't "guaranteed" a win on any particular bet. And while many will just say "accidents happen, stop whining", there's more to it when the same accidents happen to (and in favor of) the same teams over a long span of time. Part of it is Jordan Rules stuff that stars get - agree - but IMO that only amplifies the problem, it isn't the whole problem. And is too often cited as a quick excuse to toss aside the unsavory reality that things may actually not be on the up and up here. I'm more convinced than ever that it's true, I don't know the exact makeup of it or anything, but I know something is going on. You don't flip a coin 100 times and have it land on heads 90 times, the odds are astronomical - the reality is you have a weighted coin. I think the league and / or refs, likely both, are weighting games. Packers, Steelers, Patriots are on the favored side, Bears, Saints, and Lions are on the unfavored side. I don't watch enough non-bears football to know who else gets screwed regularly (Seattle maybe).

That’s exactly what I think happens. Thumbing the scales.

Now at whose direction?

Does it come from the league where they want certain players or storylines promoted? Like the Saints winning the Super Bowl after Hurricane Katrina? The continuous support of the Norman Rockwell like town of Green Bay?

Or do we have referees being slipped envelopes of cash saying to do this or that?

Yes there are favoritisms shown towards QBs. That’s as clear as day and the league all but says it does this. That’s why roughing the passer gets called on every bullshit hit.

But what about the drive killing calls or non-calls for holding? DPI? OPI?

Then you also do have legit mistakes.

For me personally, I think it’s the league. They have their favorites. They have their protected classes. They have their storylines. And while they cannot script it like a movie they definitely can skew things in people’s favor.

They don't hand the refs money in an envelope, they simply use Venmo.

[Burl]

I think y'all are nuts.
Could there be an isolated case here and there of a ref shaving points because he's betting/in with the mob, etc.? Sure. It could happen as we know it has in other sports.

League-directed corruption to ensure success/failure of certain teams or players?
No. Just.. no.

There's a saying: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence.

[dplank]

I think y'all are nuts.
Could there be an isolated case here and there of a ref shaving points because he's betting/in with the mob, etc.? Sure. It could happen as we know it has in other sports.

League-directed corruption to ensure success/failure of certain teams or players?
No. Just.. no.

There's a saying: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence.

If it were just one game here or there I'd agree with you Burly. But how do you adequately explain years and years of "mistakes" that always favor one team and always go against another? That defies incompetence and implies corruption.

[mmmc_35]

There's a saying: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence.

There is also a saying, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

I dont think it's a league mandate but a bunch of individual biases. I think there is a clear difference in refs calling packers games.

[Burl]

I think y'all are nuts.
Could there be an isolated case here and there of a ref shaving points because he's betting/in with the mob, etc.? Sure. It could happen as we know it has in other sports.

League-directed corruption to ensure success/failure of certain teams or players?
No. Just.. no.

There's a saying: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity or incompetence.

If it were just one game here or there I'd agree with you Burly. But how do you adequately explain years and years of "mistakes" that always favor one team and always go against another? That defies incompetence and implies corruption.

I think shitty calls just affect bad teams more. So we focus extra attention on them. As do the lions. Good teams turn first downs after bogus holding calls. We lament them after the loss.

[dplank]

Watching some EPL, Man City v Everton. There’s a penalty in the box called, but after a quick review they see the player flopped and reversed the call. What a concept!