Jones the Better Bears QB?

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Burl
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If only abs equated to success...

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RichH55
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Burl compare that photo with Brady Quinn

Brady loved the gym - hated quick smart decision making though
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:41 pm Let's look at it another way.

Pillsbury vs Atlas

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I find that to be a positive image ... I can now look in my mirror as an old man and say I am in as good a shape (perhaps better) as a starting NFL QB! :-P


The Marshall Plan wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:41 pmImage
I have never looked like that, even in my younger days when I was actually a starting athlete on a college team ... not that I didn't try but that type of physique has never been attainable for me
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Sugashane
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Switch Nagy and McDaniels and you see totally different stories IMO.

NE is coached extremely well, their offense runs together well, few real broken plays and miscommunications on routes (from the little I have seen of them I haven't seen any but assume they aren't perfect lol) and McDaniels adjusts to attack defenses.

CHI has Nagy and Lazor floundering and refusing to adjust until way too late. Be it from zero protection in CLE against Garrett and Clowney to refusal to get Fields out of the pocket to change the launch position. That last one blows my mind, you literally have used Bars as a blocking TE but won't use him to help seal the EMLOS to allow Fields to get outside? Especially against man coverage? Ridiculous.
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The Marshall Plan
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Sugashane wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 pm Switch Nagy and McDaniels and you see totally different stories IMO.

NE is coached extremely well, their offense runs together well, few real broken plays and miscommunications on routes (from the little I have seen of them I haven't seen any but assume they aren't perfect lol) and McDaniels adjusts to attack defenses.

CHI has Nagy and Lazor floundering and refusing to adjust until way too late. Be it from zero protection in CLE against Garrett and Clowney to refusal to get Fields out of the pocket to change the launch position. That last one blows my mind, you literally have used Bars as a blocking TE but won't use him to help seal the EMLOS to allow Fields to get outside? Especially against man coverage? Ridiculous.
Not that I'm defending Matt Nagy at all, but isn't McDaniels a raging penis and therefore just not a good guy to have as HC? What was the problem with him?

Don't get me wrong. I would take some of the posters here, myself included, as HC over Nagy, but there will be better candidates than McDaniels.
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Kylo Bearen
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:28 pm
Sugashane wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 pm Switch Nagy and McDaniels and you see totally different stories IMO.

Not that I'm defending Matt Nagy at all, but isn't McDaniels a raging penis and therefore just not a good guy to have as HC? What was the problem with him?

Don't get me wrong. I would take some of the posters here, myself included, as HC over Nagy, but there will be better candidates than McDaniels.
This is The National Football League not Nicest Guy League. Nagy is good guy off the field and it isn't helping the team get any wins. At this point I just want a coach or offense that can score more than 20 points a game and take Justin Fields to his utmost potential. Any thing else is window dressing.
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Sugashane
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:28 pm
Sugashane wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:25 pm Switch Nagy and McDaniels and you see totally different stories IMO.

NE is coached extremely well, their offense runs together well, few real broken plays and miscommunications on routes (from the little I have seen of them I haven't seen any but assume they aren't perfect lol) and McDaniels adjusts to attack defenses.

CHI has Nagy and Lazor floundering and refusing to adjust until way too late. Be it from zero protection in CLE against Garrett and Clowney to refusal to get Fields out of the pocket to change the launch position. That last one blows my mind, you literally have used Bars as a blocking TE but won't use him to help seal the EMLOS to allow Fields to get outside? Especially against man coverage? Ridiculous.
Not that I'm defending Matt Nagy at all, but isn't McDaniels a raging penis and therefore just not a good guy to have as HC? What was the problem with him?

Don't get me wrong. I would take some of the posters here, myself included, as HC over Nagy, but there will be better candidates than McDaniels.
I'm at the point IDC what the HC is like. If he isn't beating women or driving drunk (or worse things) then he's on the table.

McDaniels was a jackass 100% in DEN, I imaging that failure and then going to STL was a bit of a humbling experience for him. I do want the HC to have some fire though, seeing him go at it with Brady was a plus for me actually. That being said nice guys have failed us pretty badly. Nagy is nice it seems, Fox had checked out and wasn't the tough guy he was earlier in his coaching career, Trestman was nice, Lovie was nice but could manipulate guys subtlety to get them pissed, Jauron was a good guy, even Wannstedt was a pushover reportedly. Ditka was the last coach who had a pair. Maybe it's time to start having a coach that focuses on winning above being a likable guy.

McDaniels was a victim of his own success. He saw how well Brady had grown under him, was Bill's top guy, and had success with the likes of Cassell running the scheme when Brady went down. He was a really young guy and had too big a head, but Bill brought him back for almost the same as what IND was going to pay him because of how valuable he is. The IND deal sours me on him a bit but when you're offering $5 mil per year to a coach there needs to be more than a handshake and a "we'll discuss it later" kind of deal. Plus he learned more about Luck's potential to need another surgery. They had a conflict about Josh and the GM about structure or something (can't remember the reported specifics).

I'm not sure there will be. You have prospects like Daboll, Moore, and Roman who all have done great work with QBs but will they be able to do that while also running the team? McDaniels has a lot of history in the NFL and can put together a hell of a staff to ensure he can have experience around him to help manage. I like the idea of him getting his best OL coach as an OC so he can focus on skill positions and Jerod Mayo as his new DC, who I think is going to be on a near Vrabel-like trajectory. If we could get Eliot Wolf as the GM (ton of history with GB, was an assistant GM who helped turn CLE around, and now with NE) then I would be super content. I don't want McDaniels having absolute roster control, he needs to focus on the team and QB development. Lets be real here too and even take out Brady. Cassell, Orton, Jimmy G, and Jones have outperformed (under McDaniels) better than pretty much any Bears QB in my lifetime outside of Kramer's one big year while having a fraction of the talent Fields has. We need to poach from a real franchise, and get a guy who has owned the offense. Nagy never actually did, he was always a Reid puppet.

I'm fine with not going for McDaniels but we need to actually get a guy who can own the team and demand execution. We haven't had that in a LONG time. I think the "nice guys finish last" thing is pretty much in play at this point.
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The Marshall Plan
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Kylo Bearen wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:59 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:28 pm

This is The National Football League not Nicest Guy League. Nagy is good guy off the field and it isn't helping the team get any wins. At this point I just want a coach or offense that can score more than 20 points a game and take Justin Fields to his utmost potential. Any thing else is window dressing.
Oh wow. You attempted to quote me, failed miserably, and then typed your own shit.

Great job!

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^^^Yeah, I was trying to cut out the stuff I wasn't commenting on and the entire post got discombobulated, LOL.
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HisRoyalSweetness
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Pfft, Mac Jones? Monday Night Football and all could manage in the whole game was 2 completions for 19 yards?!

OK, admittedly he only attempted 3 passes. ;)

What a fun game that was to watch. It was real old school stuff with that wind blowing!

Shame the Patriots had to win it though. I really don't want to see them in another Super Bowl and hoped the Bills would win that division.
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It does provide a great illustration on why wins are not a QB stat.
RichH55
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Its an outlier - Wins are still a tool (NOT infalliable - and certainly come with ALOT of needed explanation)

Hear me out : Most games are not played in those conditions - SO taking a lot away from it is foolhardy either way.

QBs need to either put up Points or Wins - Ideally both. You are not a Great QB if you do neither
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:19 pm Pfft, Mac Jones? Monday Night Football and all could manage in the whole game was 2 completions for 19 yards?!

OK, admittedly he only attempted 3 passes. ;)

What a fun game that was to watch. It was real old school stuff with that wind blowing!

Shame the Patriots had to win it though. I really don't want to see them in another Super Bowl and hoped the Bills would win that division.
66% completion percentage actually brought his season average down
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Doughboy had his first playoff game and had some good and not so good moments: 24/38, 232yds 2TD 2 INT 74.6% passer rating. Allen, who most everyone wished that Mitch could have become, had a helluva night with 5 TD's and 157.6% passer rating. To be fair to Mac the Pats got down early and could not stop the Bills, in spite of their D being one of the highest rated in the league.

Could Jones have led the Bears to the playoffs? Naah, not with Nagy calling it and the porous OL. It does make you wonder if things had turned out differently and Fields had not been there for the Bears, would they have been content to have Jones fall to them and KEPT THEIR FLIPPIN' DRAFT PICKS? Nagy would still probably be out the door along with Pace but at least they would have had a top ten pick for an elite WR. Or even someone for the OL.
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RichH55 wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:01 am Its an outlier - Wins are still a tool (NOT infalliable - and certainly come with ALOT of needed explanation)

Hear me out : Most games are not played in those conditions - SO taking a lot away from it is foolhardy either way.

QBs need to either put up Points or Wins - Ideally both. You are not a Great QB if you do neither
I mean it's pretty hard to judge them for anything other than points.

I guess if you want to get technical you can say points can be noisy and he needs to win TOP and field position to also put his D in a position to keep points off the board. So you could go with something like EPA which would deduct the bad plays from good plays and will be less noisy than straight points.

Wins though? Naahhh
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Jones has a lower ceiling that Fields.

Will Fields ever hit his ceiling? Who knows, he needs a better coach/team.
Hopefully Chicago can make the adjustments
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If you where betting who had a better career Jones is the safe bet. It is what it is.
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I’d still take both Lawrence and Fields over Jones.
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dplank wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:33 pm I’d still take both Lawrence and Fields over Jones.
Jones didn't look great in the Playoff game

Both those other guys - have mountains to climb before even getting to sniff Playoff games
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