Would Mac Jones have been a better QB for the Bears? Well, maybe what I should say is would Jones have been a better fit for the Nagy Offense Bears?!?
I will say I'm happy the Bears got Fields and think he'll be a better QB than Jones. Up to the draft Jones name kept coming up as the Bears first round pick, until Fields dropped to the point where Pace (once again) gave up draft capital to get him. I suppose what makes me wonder is how Jones torched the Browns D while Fields had his worst day against that same D.
And yes, Nagy is no Bellicheck. I think it comes down to nature vs. nurture. Fields has the natural skills/talent to be a great QB but is stuck with the Nagy O. Bellicheck has figured out how to put Jones in the best situation and choose plays that give Jones a chance for success. Nagy sticks to his offense and probably still wishes he could start Dalton.
Would Jones have had more wins for the Bears than Fields at this point? Maybe one more, maybe not. While the Pats may not be ready to crown his ass as Brady v2, they have a QB who can read defenses and make good decisions. The Bears have a dynamic playmaker in Fields who could use a coach that understands how to develop him.
Jones the Better Bears QB?
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I think behind out OL he would not be playing as well.
I think Jones will have a solid NFL career but Fields will be a top QB
I think Jones will have a solid NFL career but Fields will be a top QB
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I think Bill Belichick would've been a better coach for Justin Fields.
That's the way I'd word it.
That's the way I'd word it.
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You know what you’re getting with Jones, he’ll run the playbook efficiently and effectively.
With Fields you’ll get that little bit of magic that Jones doesn’t have. The person who thinks outside the box in Fields versus Jones who will live his whole career in the rigid box.
Fields is capable of the incredible the unimaginable the thing which makes watching sport thrilling. But he’ll also have failures which will be equally thrilling. The ‘not knowing’ is what keeps people coming back to watch sport. You wouldn’t watch robots play sport, they do what they’re programmed to do and don’t err. Without characters like Fields pro sports would be dull.
Jones will have a good career, Fields will make plays he’s simply ‘not entitled’ to make. Sometimes he’ll fail, but as a spectator give me Fields EVERY time.
With Fields you’ll get that little bit of magic that Jones doesn’t have. The person who thinks outside the box in Fields versus Jones who will live his whole career in the rigid box.
Fields is capable of the incredible the unimaginable the thing which makes watching sport thrilling. But he’ll also have failures which will be equally thrilling. The ‘not knowing’ is what keeps people coming back to watch sport. You wouldn’t watch robots play sport, they do what they’re programmed to do and don’t err. Without characters like Fields pro sports would be dull.
Jones will have a good career, Fields will make plays he’s simply ‘not entitled’ to make. Sometimes he’ll fail, but as a spectator give me Fields EVERY time.
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No. Mac Jones is benefitting from the same system that Brady did for all of those years. Don't get me wrong, Brady is an outstanding QB in his own right. But I'm not sure he would be as good today if he didn't develop in the Belichick offensive scheme for as long as he did.
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This. Next question plzThe Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 pm I think Bill Belichick would've been a better coach for Justin Fields.
That's the way I'd word it.
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Also it might make sense to mention the name Josh McDaniels. Because if you don't acknowledge the key factor in the question you're not really having a discussion.
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Yeah. Or, if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Bears, we'd be looking back at him with the same fondness we have for Jim Miller.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:45 pm I think Bill Belichick would've been a better coach for Justin Fields.
That's the way I'd word it.
If the Pats had drafted Cutler, he'd be clutching a fist full of rings.
Either Jones or Fields would be looking great in New England. And saying that, Jones was my choice for QB in the draft, but no way I'd trade Fields for him right now.
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All I know is that I wouldn’t trade Fields for Jones if they offered right now.
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Well, look at it this way, the Pats probably could have had Fields if they wanted him. They could have traded up just like the Bears. Jones fits what they do to a T. I believe if the Pats had a top 5 pick, they would have taken Jones. He is playing well in their system. He would have been killed here with the way this OL has played.
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FwiwArkansasbear wrote: ↑Thu Nov 18, 2021 4:38 pm I think behind out OL he would not be playing as well.
I think Jones will have a solid NFL career but Fields will be a top QB
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I think that's the original point I wanted to make, but you did it much more succinctly.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:15 amFuck no.
Fields is a much more complete player.
The problem is that Fields plays for somebody who has shit for brains while Jones plays for a 4D Chess Icon.
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Belichec/McDaniels have molded this blob of clay into the QB they needed, wanted for the Pats to be successful. The Bears took an uber talented QB, looked at it and realized they didn't understand what they really got. They thought they had a Mustang 5.0 but really got a Lambo. They hoped, prayed and just started throwing shit against the wall to see it they could get the best out of their pick. It has not happened yet and it will not with the team of mechanics on the staff.
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Over at NFL.com, David Carr has an article on Redrafting the 1st Round QB Picks.
Here's where he changes things up:
And now the somewhat jaw dropper, particularly if you're a Bears fan:
Sound familiar?I believe the Jaguars made the right decision by drafting Trevor Lawrence No. 1 overall. That said, I don't necessarily like how Urban Meyer is using the rookie. Meyer is running too much of a pro-style offense with Lawrence doing a lot of dropback passing and not using his legs in the play-action game.
Would you have spent pick #2 on him?I'm also a believer that the Jets made the right choice in drafting Zach Wilson second overall back in April. He's incredibly talented and can make every throw in the book, yet there's no doubt this has been a humbling rookie season for him.
Carr likes his running ability and thinks he's a stronger thrower than Jimmy G. Meh.Trey Lance is in a great spot in San Francisco, so I'm keeping him with the 49ers. If I had to pick one coach to help Lance transition into the NFL, Kyle Shanahan would be one of the guys at the top of the list, along with the Panthers' Joe Brady and Saints' Sean Payton.
Here's where he changes things up:
How much trade value would they get out of Tua? Difficult to build a team if you keep drafting QB's in the first round.Jones, however, would've been the perfect QB for the Dolphins to take sixth overall. He played like a complete veteran against the Cleveland Browns last week, and if his name wouldn't have been next to his stat line, I would have thought Tom Brady was still in New England. He's the best in his class thus far when it comes to making the right read and throwing with timing and accuracy. Mac is ready to go and likely would have made Miami a 10-win team this season, just like the Patriots will be.
And now the somewhat jaw dropper, particularly if you're a Bears fan:
So he thinks Jones would have gone ahead of Fields. OK. Would Big Ben have stepped away from the starter role? Doubtful. Glad to see Fields not wearing black and gold.I would have loved to see the Steelers make a splash trade in Round 1 of the draft (like the Bears did) to move ahead of the Panthers at No. 8 and nab quarterback Justin Fields. The rookie has a great understanding of the game, excels as a passer and runner and can transcend the X's and O's. He has made some big-time throws, even in the midst of a humbling rookie campaign in Chicago, and never panics. This is the type of player who'd fit right in with the likes of Chase Claypool, Diontae Johnson and friends.
The Steelers need a quarterback who can take them all the way. Fields would've been the right man for the job, well worth the precious draft capital Pittsburgh would have parted with to move up from No. 24 overall. This pair would've been a slam dunk.
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Meh. Not much interesting here frankly. We have Wilson who has looked awful, and Lance who has hardly played at all, and he's not moving their draft positions. Mentioning that Lance landed in a great spot for HIM is nice, but is totally out of context of a "how would you re-draft" question - SF would be a great spot for any of these QB's to land so it's irrelevant. Then he thinks the Dolphins should trade up for Jones over Fields is supposed to be the big takeaway here? Nah. The whole writeup and thought process is just weird IMO. If you want to rank the QB's by performance thus far, it's Jones, Fields, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance. You could flip Fields/Lawrence maybe, but Fields has been surging so I put him over. If you want to rank them based on potential, I think it's Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, Jones. If you want to look at the situation they landed in, it's Jones, Lance, then lump Fields/Wilson/Lawrence into one pile of dogshit and take your pick.spudbear wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:03 pm Over at NFL.com, David Carr has an article on Redrafting the 1st Round QB Picks.Sound familiar?I believe the Jaguars made the right decision by drafting Trevor Lawrence No. 1 overall. That said, I don't necessarily like how Urban Meyer is using the rookie. Meyer is running too much of a pro-style offense with Lawrence doing a lot of dropback passing and not using his legs in the play-action game.Would you have spent pick #2 on him?I'm also a believer that the Jets made the right choice in drafting Zach Wilson second overall back in April. He's incredibly talented and can make every throw in the book, yet there's no doubt this has been a humbling rookie season for him.Carr likes his running ability and thinks he's a stronger thrower than Jimmy G. Meh.Trey Lance is in a great spot in San Francisco, so I'm keeping him with the 49ers. If I had to pick one coach to help Lance transition into the NFL, Kyle Shanahan would be one of the guys at the top of the list, along with the Panthers' Joe Brady and Saints' Sean Payton.
Here's where he changes things up:How much trade value would they get out of Tua? Difficult to build a team if you keep drafting QB's in the first round.Jones, however, would've been the perfect QB for the Dolphins to take sixth overall. He played like a complete veteran against the Cleveland Browns last week, and if his name wouldn't have been next to his stat line, I would have thought Tom Brady was still in New England. He's the best in his class thus far when it comes to making the right read and throwing with timing and accuracy. Mac is ready to go and likely would have made Miami a 10-win team this season, just like the Patriots will be.
And now the somewhat jaw dropper, particularly if you're a Bears fan:So he thinks Jones would have gone ahead of Fields. OK. Would Big Ben have stepped away from the starter role? Doubtful. Glad to see Fields not wearing black and gold.I would have loved to see the Steelers make a splash trade in Round 1 of the draft (like the Bears did) to move ahead of the Panthers at No. 8 and nab quarterback Justin Fields. The rookie has a great understanding of the game, excels as a passer and runner and can transcend the X's and O's. He has made some big-time throws, even in the midst of a humbling rookie campaign in Chicago, and never panics. This is the type of player who'd fit right in with the likes of Chase Claypool, Diontae Johnson and friends.
The Steelers need a quarterback who can take them all the way. Fields would've been the right man for the job, well worth the precious draft capital Pittsburgh would have parted with to move up from No. 24 overall. This pair would've been a slam dunk.
There's just so many variables and what-if's the whole thing seems silly to me. Right now, I bet 90% of Bears fans wouldn't trade Fields for any one of these other 4 guys, Lawrence included. I know I wouldn't.
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Let's look at it another way.
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Coming out, I thought Jones was Joe Burrow Lite. Both had WRs out the wazoo who were 1st round picks. Both had the best OLs in college football and great running attacks. Jones landed in a perfect spot for his game where he can be the second coming of Brady in a Bellichick offense: heavy on running, a heavily controlled passing game while he learns the pro game. Jones was my preseason choice for Offensive Rookie of the Year and he's got the inside track unless Fields really catches fire. I wouldn't take Jones over Fields, though. Fields has great upside if, and it's a big if, the Bears hire the right coaches for him.
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Friends back home have a podcast and asked me to come on. We talked about a lot of things. One was where the QBs are. End of day you have to take Lawrence first with the pedigree, but like Wilson walking into bad situations. Going to take a bit for them to look good and not necessarily their fault. Lance is very raw but far and away best weapons….others might be doing wonders there but also could be behind Garappalo. Jones seemed like the guy benefiting from NFL talent at college level and I would say his college weapons were better than what he has in the NFL, but he also has one of the best coaches and situations. Jones is playing well but I can’t say he’s the reason Pats are winning, just not causing them to lose. For a rookie that’s great but what he is long term is still unknown. Don’t know what Fields is but I had him as 1B coming out and seen the game start to slow down recently. From the intangible part I think he has whatever IT is. We weren’t getting Lawrence so I’m thrilled with Fields dropping to us. Time will tell but I wouldn’t do it differently.
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My assessment of them was:Grizzled wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:10 pm Coming out, I thought Jones was Joe Burrow Lite. Both had WRs out the wazoo who were 1st round picks. Both had the best OLs in college football and great running attacks. Jones landed in a perfect spot for his game where he can be the second coming of Brady in a Bellichick offense: heavy on running, a heavily controlled passing game while he learns the pro game. Jones was my preseason choice for Offensive Rookie of the Year and he's got the inside track unless Fields really catches fire. I wouldn't take Jones over Fields, though. Fields has great upside if, and it's a big if, the Bears hire the right coaches for him.
Lawrence = Stafford
Lance = An unknown. Maybe good maybe bad.
Wilson = The Jets drafted him. He'll suck.
Fields = The steal of the draft.
Jones = Who knows. That Alabama offense was so great how inflated were his stats. I really think Jones went to the ONE place where his chances for success were going to be above average.
I wouldn't trade Fields for any of them. Screw Trevor Lawrence.
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As I posted in another thread, some NFL scouts say that if the Jets had the chance to redraft, they'd take Fields 2nd and Jones woudn't last past pick 6.The Marshall Plan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:53 amMy assessment of them was:Grizzled wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:10 pm Coming out, I thought Jones was Joe Burrow Lite. Both had WRs out the wazoo who were 1st round picks. Both had the best OLs in college football and great running attacks. Jones landed in a perfect spot for his game where he can be the second coming of Brady in a Bellichick offense: heavy on running, a heavily controlled passing game while he learns the pro game. Jones was my preseason choice for Offensive Rookie of the Year and he's got the inside track unless Fields really catches fire. I wouldn't take Jones over Fields, though. Fields has great upside if, and it's a big if, the Bears hire the right coaches for him.
Lawrence = Stafford
Lance = An unknown. Maybe good maybe bad.
Wilson = The Jets drafted him. He'll suck.
Fields = The steal of the draft.
Jones = Who knows. That Alabama offense was so great how inflated were his stats. I really think Jones went to the ONE place where his chances for success were going to be above average.
I wouldn't trade Fields for any of them. Screw Trevor Lawrence.
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
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And yes I was banging the drum for Mac Jones ahead of the draft - It was a relatively easy scout
THAT SAID - Year 1 could not matter Less in terms of the Pick of these two QBs.
Mac Jones was always going to be pretty good out of the gate (the things he does translate perfectly with the NFL - Ceiling is the question) AND Justin Fields and really any tOSU QB is going to need a development window
Year 3 is where you should get the debate - IMHO
THAT SAID - Year 1 could not matter Less in terms of the Pick of these two QBs.
Mac Jones was always going to be pretty good out of the gate (the things he does translate perfectly with the NFL - Ceiling is the question) AND Justin Fields and really any tOSU QB is going to need a development window
Year 3 is where you should get the debate - IMHO
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It's hard to evaluate any QB in an offense that is so fundamentally broken. Doesn't matter who it is. Fields...Mitch...Foles...Dalton. Doesn't matter.
Dalton though is at least experienced enough to know what to do when everything inevitably breaks down.
Dalton though is at least experienced enough to know what to do when everything inevitably breaks down.
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Everyone wants the Offensive Line to be Anthony Munoz, John Hannah types and then Randy Moss, Jerry Rice, and Gronk is his prime at skill positions.
Which - sure - Great.
BUT if that is what you need for the QB to succeed
A) What QB wouldn't be good with that
B) What are you really saying about the QB?
The 3 things great QB tend to have in common
1) Accuracy (Fields has this)
2) "IT" Factor
3) Decision making speed/Reading Defense/Knowing what they are doing (This is the biggest hurdle for Fields)
The three biggest overrated things in QBs
1) Arm Strength
2) Athleticism
3) College Stats
Of the three things great QBs have in common - I think a good chunk of them are apparent relatively early (*) AND I do not think they get all that much better over time
(*) I do not mean Rookie year alone by any stretch
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Completely agree. Fields has tools and upside that Jones doesn't have. More importantly, he has that calm assassin mindset.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
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Go back to leather helmets, NFL.