Is Vildor The Worst CB We've Ever Had?

[The Marshall Plan]

I'm trying to decide if Vildor is the worst Bears CB I've ever seen.

There was a guy we had in the Wanny era that was horrible. It wasn't Donnell Woolford. It wasn't Walt Harris. Both of those guys were actually good.

But of all the Bears CBs Vildor has to be the worst I've ever seen.

[EricTighe]

He is definitely the worst rated in the NFL this year.

[TheWorldBreaker]

He’s awful and single-handedly cost them the game by sucking so much.

I’d really like to hear from the Pace apologists how Ryan Pace should get another year when someone that sucks that bad is the best option at corner opposite Johnson.

Just embarrassing but hopefully Vildor actually does something useful and gets Pace flushed out too.

[bbaker]

Yeah. Vildor is brutal, and so are our safeties. While I do give credit to Pace for some decent draft picks, the way he built this defensive secondary is woefully negligent and he should be held accountable.

[Rusty Trombagent]

thomas graham jr was supposed to be a steal. none of the options on the table are working so throw him into the fire.

[crueltyabc]

This bears leadership team is all about getting their young players smashed

[southdakbearfan]

Between Vildor and Christian it’s a toss up.

[BearsFanInMN]

6th round nickel at best that is starting due to all other bad moves. Wasn’t Trufant or Burns supposed to be #2? What happened to Tolliver? I’ve hated McQuarters and Anthony Blaylock more, but maybe I have a soft spot for his name sounding like a Game of Thrones character as he has been brutal last few weeks.

[Boris13c]

Vildor may not be the worst, but he is certainly in contention for that throne

but I also question why the defensive call put him in position to be burned like that

[Arkansasbear]

I don’t have a solid grasp of NFL contracts but it’s my understanding his contract wouldn’t be guaranteed as he’s not a veteran player. So cut him. It makes me sick he gets paid for his “play.” The next guy up can give up big plays as just as easy as he can.

[Grizzled]

He’s on the Mt. Rushmore of crappy Bears CBs.

[Otis Day]

I'm trying to decide if Vildor is the worst Bears CB I've ever seen.

There was a guy we had in the Wanny era that was horrible. It wasn't Donnell Woolford. It wasn't Walt Harris. Both of those guys were actually good.

But of all the Bears CBs Vildor has to be the worst I've ever seen.

Jeremy "Stinkin" Lincoln?

[docc]

Vildor is dead to me..

[The Marshall Plan]

I'm trying to decide if Vildor is the worst Bears CB I've ever seen.

There was a guy we had in the Wanny era that was horrible. It wasn't Donnell Woolford. It wasn't Walt Harris. Both of those guys were actually good.

But of all the Bears CBs Vildor has to be the worst I've ever seen.

Jeremy "Stinkin" Lincoln?

Nice job Otis! Yeah I think that's it!

[Moriarty]

I'm trying to decide if Vildor is the worst Bears CB I've ever seen.

There was a guy we had in the Wanny era that was horrible. It wasn't Donnell Woolford. It wasn't Walt Harris. Both of those guys were actually good.

But of all the Bears CBs Vildor has to be the worst I've ever seen.

Jeremy "Stinkin" Lincoln?

He (Lincoln) might be 2nd to worst, but I'd still take him.
He (Lincoln) got screwed by a lot of terrible PI calls, IIRC.

[IE]

He's young and has made some mistakes and IIRC gotten like zero calls in his favor. I'm not ready to throw him on the permanent trash heap. It is frustrating that they promoted him so much coming into the season. I know it was to convince fans that he was worthy - but honestly I think it was SO over the top that it may have gotten into this head.

It seems like Pace could have made a LOT of different & affordable moves at the CB position and had the team in better shape than to rely on KV. But he hasn't and IMO he's shown enough cred on spotting defensive talent that to me it is coming down to coaching and *maybe* us needing to be a little more reasonable in what we expect any defense to be able to stop on a regular basis.

Here's the thing: You have to be able to score 30 points in the NFL to win. Not every game... but sheesh once again the Bears just seem to have zero reliable offense and instead hope to have a few big plays and squeak out close wins. But guess what? Other teams are professional and can come back too! Score! Get the ball into the end zone 4 times a game if you want to win!

I'm not here to pick apart a defense that with a few exceptions has been keeping the opposition's scoring to within NFL levels. The offense isn't do it's job - simple as that. 13 points? At home? With that running game and those tight ends? Inexcusable.

Nagy loves people teeing off on likes of Kindle Vildor. Hey look - a squirrel!

[Burl]

Vildor strikes me as the kind of defender who can be adequate role-player if those around him are performing at a high level.
When the defense as a whole is underperforming, certain players are going to bear the brunt of that when they're isolated. In short, Vildor is as more of a symptom than the cause, IMO.

Think of how good Vasher was when we had that DL and LBs in early OO's. Soon as that core started to slip, he got "exposed".

[IE]

I'll add this, as long are we're picking on Vildor... JJ isn't very good either. He has a good breakup every now and again (so do they all), but he's got the worst stone hands and has the worst ball-hawking intuition I've EVER seen in a Bear CB.

I'm selling high on JJ if you can get anything for him.

[Moriarty]

I feel like it's probably gone down, but last I saw JJ had awesome 'QB throwing at' ratings.

Anyone know where recent ones are?

[IE]

I feel like it's probably gone down, but last I saw JJ had awesome 'QB throwing at' ratings.

Anyone know where recent ones are?

I remember those. But to me some of those stats have too many variables to be super-meaningful. He's not a shut-down corner because he gives up scores. And if getting the ball matters....his hands are anti-matter.

[wab]

I'll add this, as long are we're picking on Vildor... JJ isn't very good either. He has a good breakup every now and again (so do they all), but he's got the worst stone hands and has the worst ball-hawking intuition I've EVER seen in a Bear CB.

I'm selling high on JJ if you can get anything for him.

This is a weird take.

I'll grant you that JJ might be more of a #2 corner than a #1. But throwing him out with the bathwater when he's the only consistent player in the secondary is odd.

[IE]

I'll add this, as long are we're picking on Vildor... JJ isn't very good either. He has a good breakup every now and again (so do they all), but he's got the worst stone hands and has the worst ball-hawking intuition I've EVER seen in a Bear CB.

I'm selling high on JJ if you can get anything for him.

This is a weird take.

I'll grant you that JJ might be more of a #2 corner than a #1. But throwing him out with the bathwater when he's the only consistent player in the secondary is odd.

Perhaps it is, and I'm a bit spoiled from the history of Bears having ball hawking DBs. Bear DBs have always given up some big plays, it seems. But they've also been pretty good at balancing that and also getting the ball back. So maybe I measure DBs differently than some (many?)... but I don't want DBs back there that get beat once a game but then don't balance that by doing damage of their own. All DBs in today's NFL are going to give up some TDs - that's the way it is. So it is imperative that they get the ball every once in a while (e.g. at least 1 INT a game between 4 guys seems reasonable).

I understand JJ has decent cover stats. Maybe I'm overreacting to what I perceive as a lack of game-changing plays from him (there have been a few good PDs in the end zone I know). But 1 INT in 23 games sucks donkey balls, IMO. If he's a long-term piece, core guy & leader of the defensive backfield, I just think he has to do better than that.

I also know that's supposed to be Eddie. But with Eddie leaving the seat vacant, I'm sort of frustrated that JJ hasn't conspicuously taken it. I think this post frustrates me because Vildor would be a great story if he was better than just below average. But JJ should be great - and he is not.

[Artbest]

Vildor is down there imo among the worst starting CB's the Bears have (ever) had - at least in the modern era. Jeremy Lincoln was bad, Lemuel Stinson was bad, Zach Bowman was bad...if we want to go WAY back, Terry Schmidt was HORRENDOUS. Virgil Livers was pretty bad. Vildor IS the worst in recent memory

[spudbear]

Pace spent a high draft pick for JJ, but it was mid 2nd round. Other teams actually keep their first round picks and take ball-hawking DB's. Comparing JJ to first round DB's may not be all that fair. At least he's played all season ... so far (knock on wood). The shoulder injury was a big concern last year, that we once again had to deal with damaged goods for a high draft pick.

Unfortunately Pace has left himself trying to find diamonds in the rough in late rounds for the defensive backfield, like the attempt at Vildor. So we end up with undersized DB's having to take on TE's and big WR's that other teams keep stocking their roster with. That is one of my big frustrations with Pace, that he has not been able to draft for size in the passing game, either WR's or DB's.

There was that one kid from a FLA school, had limited experience but was big and fast. After two seasons on the PS he got tossed. Oh yeah, Steven Denmark. There was that other CB from an SEC school that also showed promise, to the point where he started a few games. He got left behind too. Tolliver.

Finally, we may be seeing the results of why EJax wasn't picked in the early rounds. The excuse about the injury was given, but he did have a great rookie season. Since then, not so much particularly after he signed for big money.

[IE]

Peanut was a 2nd rounder. Vasher was a 4th. Vasher actually got burned quite a bit. But he was a ball hawk and made up for it. Mike Brown was a 2nd rounder and had flaws in coverage. But his ball hawking and awareness and leadership was elite.

I don't think a guy needs to be a first rounder.

Virgil Livers will always have my respect, for his sacrifice to the Bears.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I feel like it's probably gone down, but last I saw JJ had awesome 'QB throwing at' ratings.

Anyone know where recent ones are?

Johnson:
Targets: 50
Completions: 26
Completion %: 52.0%
Yards: 394
Yards/Comp: 15.2
Yards/Target: 7.9
TDs: 2
INTs: 1
Passer Rating: 83.2

Vildor:
Targets: 40
Completions: 29
Completion %: 72.5%
Yards: 463
Yards/Comp: 16.0
Yards/Target: 11.6
TDs: 5
INTs: 0
Passer Rating: 150.3

All the talk before the season was about how the secondary would be fine if the pass rush was good. Well it mostly has been good with Mack (prior to his injury) and Quinn both being as productive as we could have hoped and others contributing. In the last game the team recorded six sacks. There is no excuse for the underperformance of the secondary. The big play that took the Ravens down to the 3 yard line was all down to a blown coverage; the pressure was great on that play with Quinn right up in Huntley's face, but with Watkins wide open all he had to do was throw it up. Quinn's reaction at his presser after the game summed it up. He refused to throw anyone under the bus but he wound up shaking his head in disbelief that they'd lost that game.

Johnson is a solid CB, but not a star. As wab says, he's probably a number 2 guy.

Vildor just can't make plays even when his coverage is pretty decent. He just seems to lack instincts and loses out every time on contested catches.

[Moriarty]

Vildor is down there imo among the worst starting CB's the Bears have (ever) had - at least in the modern era. Jeremy Lincoln was bad, Lemuel Stinson was bad, Zach Bowman was bad...if we want to go WAY back, Terry Schmidt was HORRENDOUS. Virgil Livers was pretty bad. Vildor IS the worst in recent memory

Bowman's a contender. Although he had more starts than I remembered, he was still never an 'Opening Day + started for the whole season guy', though. Started most of 2009 when Vasher turned out to still be broken.

Schmidt & Livers are far enough back that I remember their days, but was too young to have an accurate opinion.


Another point -
Lincoln was R3, but Stinson, Bowman, and Vildor were all what are now R5 or R6.
Don't try and bargain shop for starting corners. It's a premier position. Strictly rounds 1 & 2 only, when you need a starter.

[IE]

I'd argue that JJ has far better athleticism (at least at CB) than Vildor but neither of them have good instincts.

Again it really needs to be mentioned I think that the D for the most part has done their job this season. Tampa hung a big number on them because of turnovers and Pittsburg got a LOT of favors. There were only a couple of games where the DBs really broke down and gave the game away. And I don't even include the Packer game because jesus everyone gives up TDs to Adams. He's the best there is.

The Bears' problem always has been and still is the offense.

[Moriarty]

Again it really needs to be mentioned I think that the D for the most part has done their job this season. Tampa hung a big number on them because of turnovers and Pittsburg got a LOT of favors. There were only a couple of games where the DBs really broke down and gave the game away. And I don't even include the Packer game because jesus everyone gives up TDs to Adams. He's the best there is.

The Bears' problem always has been and still is the offense.

No doubt.

But I would take exception with the philosophy that some seem to have/imply of "pick whatever side of the ball is worse and upgrade there until they are equal".
It's ok if both sides aren't the same level. You spend resource wherever you think the biggest improvement to the team can be made. And I think you can definitely argue for CB being right up there, maybe even pinnacle of the list (players -not including front office, obviously).

[Moriarty]

I feel like it's probably gone down, but last I saw JJ had awesome 'QB throwing at' ratings.

Anyone know where recent ones are?

Johnson:
Targets: 50
Completions: 26
Completion %: 52.0%
Yards: 394
Yards/Comp: 15.2
Yards/Target: 7.9
TDs: 2
INTs: 1
Passer Rating: 83.2

Vildor:
Targets: 40
Completions: 29
Completion %: 72.5%
Yards: 463
Yards/Comp: 16.0
Yards/Target: 11.6
TDs: 5
INTs: 0
Passer Rating: 150.3

All the talk before the season was about how the secondary would be fine if the pass rush was good. Well it mostly has been good with Mack (prior to his injury) and Quinn both being as productive as we could have hoped and others contributing. In the last game the team recorded six sacks. There is no excuse for the underperformance of the secondary. The big play that took the Ravens down to the 3 yard line was all down to a blown coverage; the pressure was great on that play with Quinn right up in Huntley's face, but with Watkins wide open all he had to do was throw it up. Quinn's reaction at his presser after the game summed it up. He refused to throw anyone under the bus but he wound up shaking his head in disbelief that they'd lost that game.

Johnson is a solid CB, but not a star. As wab says, he's probably a number 2 guy.

Vildor just can't make plays even when his coverage is pretty decent. He just seems to lack instincts and loses out every time on contested catches.

Nice stuff.
Where do you get this?


I don't recall how that compares to before, but JJ is still very solid and Vildor very bad by those (which I think are very good metrics, unless there's objection to the assignment of which plays they are being 'thrown against').