Update: McCaskey addresses team - no Nagy firing after Thanksgiving

[mshu7]

What a F-ing joke of an organization.

[Burl]

What a F-ing joke of an organization.

Well, to be fair, if this is just a made up story, the org didn’t actually do anything wrong.

[dplank]

Was it necessary tho? Now he's boxed himself in to NOT fire Nagy, which ultimately is the right thing to do for the franchise. I'd rather get the move right and optics wrong than vice versa.

[Artbest]

The reporter from the patch is a Pulitzer Prize winner - the odds of him simply “making this up” are slim. The question is who told him this?

Beyond that, the bear organization bungled this - badly. Not true? George should have issued a statement immediately that it was false and shouldn’t have waited until today to address the players and coaches.

[Burl]

I don't necessarily agree that it's a good strategy for ownership to issue a public statement when something non-factual gets reported. Because then when you don't respond to erroneous reports, it can appear as a tacit endorsement. So then you've boxed yourself into issuing responses and the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe this rose to the level of requiring a response from ownership, but that's at least debatable and not an obvious blunder.

To Dplank's point though, does this box them into not firing Nagy? Not necessarily. They can still come to that decision any time they wish and explain as necessary.
Personally, I still think he makes it to the end of the year.

Hoge and Jahns made the point yesterday evening, Trestman survived til the end of the year, and he had the Kromer leak situation which, if Trestman had any balls, should have resulted in Kromer's immediate dismissal. But he wussed out. Nagy hasn't reached that level of ineptitude in my opinion.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

He shouldn't have addressed the players and coaches at all. He should have just put a statement out to the press that no decisions regarding Nagy's position had been made and there was categorically no truth to the rumour that Nagy had been told he was going to be fired after Thursday's game.

As dplank says, he's now boxed himself in and made it all but impossible to fire Nagy after Thursday even if the team loses to the pathetic Lions in a blowout. He could still fire Nagy, but it just makes him look indecisive and untrustworthy.

[The Cooler King]

I don't necessarily agree that it's a good strategy for ownership to issue a public statement when something non-factual gets reported. Because then when you don't respond to erroneous reports, it can appear as a tacit endorsement. So then you've boxed yourself into issuing responses and the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe this rose to the level of requiring a response from ownership, but that's at least debatable and not an obvious blunder.

To Dplank's point though, does this box them into not firing Nagy? Not necessarily. They can still come to that decision any time they wish and explain as necessary.
Personally, I still think he makes it to the end of the year.

Hoge and Jahns made the point yesterday evening, Trestman survived til the end of the year, and he had the Kromer leak situation which, if Trestman had any balls, should have resulted in Kromer's immediate dismissal. But he wussed out. Nagy hasn't reached that level of ineptitude in my opinion.

I agree you can't make a habit of it. But if it's to the point that you were addressing players on it as an owner, a brief public statement should probably be next.

[The Cooler King]

He shouldn't have addressed the players and coaches at all. He should have just put a statement out to the press that no decisions regarding Nagy's position had been made and there was categorically no truth to the rumour that Nagy had been told he was going to be fired after Thursday's game.

As dplank says, he's now boxed himself in and made it all but impossible to fire Nagy after Thursday even if the team loses to the pathetic Lions in a blowout. He could still fire Nagy, but it just makes him look indecisive and untrustworthy.

Thats really only an issue if it's true they already planned to fire him. In that case the big issue is the leak, which is still a big issue IMO.

If there were no set plans then I don't think they've boxed them self into anything with the response. And at this point responding is probably the fairest thing for players to try and minimize the distraction.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Maybe George and Matt cut a deal somewhere along the way that Nagy will resign once the playoffs become moot. He could then bow out gracefully, just in time for the last two weeks.

I have heard of a lot worse deals.

[dplank]

I don't necessarily agree that it's a good strategy for ownership to issue a public statement when something non-factual gets reported. Because then when you don't respond to erroneous reports, it can appear as a tacit endorsement. So then you've boxed yourself into issuing responses and the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe this rose to the level of requiring a response from ownership, but that's at least debatable and not an obvious blunder.

To Dplank's point though, does this box them into not firing Nagy? Not necessarily. They can still come to that decision any time they wish and explain as necessary.
Personally, I still think he makes it to the end of the year.

Hoge and Jahns made the point yesterday evening, Trestman survived til the end of the year, and he had the Kromer leak situation which, if Trestman had any balls, should have resulted in Kromer's immediate dismissal. But he wussed out. Nagy hasn't reached that level of ineptitude in my opinion.

Gabriel agrees with you

[Grizzled]

Well, of course the McCaskeys refuse to ever change. F*ck the fans for wanting this organization to actually improve.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Ah, the classic chant of "The referee's a wanker, the referee's a wanker." It would have been most appropriate at the Steelers game don't you think?

Another classic that would be appropriate for tomorrow's game is one every under pressure soccer manager has heard in his career: "You're getting sacked in the morning, sacked in the morning. You're getting sacked in the morning." 'Sacked' being another word for 'fired' in the UK.



The creativity and humour in British chants is great. I'm not a fan of vicious ones, but funny ones? Oh yes!

A few favourites include:

The song for striker Bobby Zamora when he was at Brighton, sung to the tune of Dean Martin's "That's amore":
"When the ball hits the goal, it's not Shearer or Cole, it's Zamora."
When he played for West Ham United and was somewhat less successful:
"When you're sat in row Z, and the ball hits your head, that's Zamora."

When Rio Ferdinand of Manchester United was banned for missing a drugs test, sung to the tune of "Rio" by Duran Duran:
“His name is Rio and he watches from the stand.”

Leyton Orient fans about their 5'4 striker Dean Cox (whose nickname was 'Tiny') to the tune of "Knees up Mother Brown":
“We’ve got Tiny Cox, we’ve got Tiny Cox, we’ve got Tiny, we’ve got Tiny, we’ve got Tiny Cox!”

When it came to light that Glasgow Rangers goalkeeper Andy Goram had schizophrenia, their fans adapted the chant of "One Andy Goram, there's only one Andy Goram, One Andy Goram! There's only one Andy Goram!" to “Two Andy Gorams, there's only two Andy Gorams. Two Andy Gorams! There's only two Andy Gorams!”

And one Lions fans might like if they lose tomorrow to the 'mighty' Chicago Bears:
"We lose every week, we lose every week. You're nothing special, we lose every week!"
Of course, if the Lions win Bears fans could sing the same song...

At the risk of derailing this thread I need to tell you that I've totally gotten into Premier League as the result of the Covid craziness.

And by sheer luck, the team I started following almost immediately is Liverpool and my favorite player is Mohammed Salah.

I just decided one day to start watching Premier League on Peacock streaming. I watched a few games from different teams and I'm like whose that goofy looking guy playing for Liverpool?

Then it just stuck. I'm LOVING it.

Here are some more chants.

I went to watch him score a sensational goal tonight at Anfield, and Thiago scored a great goal too.
Salah is on a different level to everyone at the moment. Pure class.

[wiNDycityfan]

What a F-ing joke of an organization.

The worst. They make the Cubs pre-Ricketts look like the fucking Rooneys. Screw this shit.

[TheWorldBreaker]

I don't necessarily agree that it's a good strategy for ownership to issue a public statement when something non-factual gets reported. Because then when you don't respond to erroneous reports, it can appear as a tacit endorsement. So then you've boxed yourself into issuing responses and the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe this rose to the level of requiring a response from ownership, but that's at least debatable and not an obvious blunder.

To Dplank's point though, does this box them into not firing Nagy? Not necessarily. They can still come to that decision any time they wish and explain as necessary.
Personally, I still think he makes it to the end of the year.

Hoge and Jahns made the point yesterday evening, Trestman survived til the end of the year, and he had the Kromer leak situation which, if Trestman had any balls, should have resulted in Kromer's immediate dismissal. But he wussed out. Nagy hasn't reached that level of ineptitude in my opinion.

Gabriel agrees with you

That’s dumb and not congruent with how the social media world works.

99% of players are on social media and see the noise and most of them won’t know about your media policy, plus they’re going to be asked about it after the report is out there.

Furthermore, when a rumor like this not only takes over local radio but is being discussed on multiple ESPN shows it’s not about being held hostage to rumors, it’s about not letting a rumors that can materially effect your team get out of control.

[BearsFanInMN]

They are doing it on Friday.

That was my thought. I think the Fire Nagy chants at other events is a clear sign to Kip Dynamite, I mean George -and maybe the one thing that might make it happen. I think it’s classless and wrong to do it at Nagy’s kids games though.

Mitch was a highly regarded prospect and not his fault he was overdrafted, but I also look at his 2018 as nothing more than natural 2nd year progress due to picking up speed of game as only good games were first half of GB opener, Detroit, and bad Bucs team with a crazy elite D as main cause for success. He wasn’t developed by Nagy and we’ve seen nothing that Fields is being developed properly. Nagy keeping team afloat in years past looks like vet pride. He’s lost the team. Maybe it’s true we don’t get rid of him mid season because we haven’t in over 100 years, but if you don’t change and adapt then players are wearing leather helmets, playing only day games (no lights), and working 2nd jobs for healthcare and financial reasons. We have to adapt.

[Artbest]

I get not responding to every rumor - but a well run organizations leaders do not hide and have their coaches respond to reports of a pending firing.

That said, I believe Nagy finishes the season regardless of the outcome in Detroit.

[dave99]

Not responding to a rumor (especially one this consequential) is by itself a response. Which is to say leaving it hanging for several hours tends to lend it credibility.
Then finally denying it makes management seems confused and uncertain, which of course, they are.
So now either Nagy has ironclad job security through the end of the season or George and Ted are even more incompetent than we believed.
Flip a coin.

[crueltyabc]

The fact that Greg Gabriel agrees with the Bears approach tells you everything you need to know

[Burl]

They are doing it on Friday.

That was my thought. I think the Fire Nagy chants at other events is a clear sign to Kip Dynamite, I mean George -and maybe the one thing that might make it happen. I think it’s classless and wrong to do it at Nagy’s kids games though.

Mitch was a highly regarded prospect and not his fault he was overdrafted, but I also look at his 2018 as nothing more than natural 2nd year progress due to picking up speed of game as only good games were first half of GB opener, Detroit, and bad Bucs team with a crazy elite D as main cause for success. He wasn’t developed by Nagy and we’ve seen nothing that Fields is being developed properly. Nagy keeping team afloat in years past looks like vet pride. He’s lost the team. Maybe it’s true we don’t get rid of him mid season because we haven’t in over 100 years, but if you don’t change and adapt then players are wearing leather helmets, playing only day games (no lights), and working 2nd jobs for healthcare and financial reasons. We have to adapt.

I'm not sure I understand the point here.
Adapt to firing coaches mid-season? Is there some recent trend towards teams finding success in doing this?
Usually the dumpster fire type teams that do this kind of thing remain bad, at least those that come to mind.

But if you're right, there should be some good examples you can provide of teams who have adapted in this way and found success.

[The Marshall Plan]

At the risk of derailing this thread I need to tell you that I've totally gotten into Premier League as the result of the Covid craziness.

And by sheer luck, the team I started following almost immediately is Liverpool and my favorite player is Mohammed Salah.

I just decided one day to start watching Premier League on Peacock streaming. I watched a few games from different teams and I'm like whose that goofy looking guy playing for Liverpool?

Then it just stuck. I'm LOVING it.

Here are some more chants.

I went to watch him score a sensational goal tonight at Anfield, and Thiago scored a great goal too.
Salah is on a different level to everyone at the moment. Pure class.

You were at the game?

I saw the highlights. Thiago's goal was from a mile away and the ball levitated at the end towards the goal.

What resources do you guy recommend for Premier League? Websites. Podcasts. Things like that.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

I went to watch him score a sensational goal tonight at Anfield, and Thiago scored a great goal too.
Salah is on a different level to everyone at the moment. Pure class.

You were at the game?

I saw the highlights. Thiago's goal was from a mile away and the ball levitated at the end towards the goal.

What resources do you guy recommend for Premier League? Websites. Podcasts. Things like that.

Yeah I was there, had a great view too, I’ll be there on Saturday against Southampton.
First half was a bit flat but Liverpool woke up after halftime.
Thiago’s goal was incredible but I appreciated Salah’s much more. I saw the tiny nudge - often unnoticed - he gave the defender as the ball was in the air, totally put the defender off balance. The control he displayed when he took the ball out of the air, at pace. I was right behind his finish and it was brilliant. He is so good it’s really unrecognised until you see the difference with other players on the field.
If you miss hit a pass to Salah, he’ll bring it under perfect control, whilst moving at pace and turn it into a great pass.
With other players they spend 2-3 touches whilst static trying to retrieve the situation. That’s one of his best attributes.

Websites etc, I’ll do some digging for you. I have Sky and can get tickets but I know others who use other resources.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

After beating the Lions yet again, perhaps Matt Nagy should have led a rousing chorus of "Can we play you, can we play you, can we play you every week? Can we play you every week?"

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Just stumbled across this article:

Report: Bears didn't believe Nagy when he denied firing

By now numerous reports have come out indicating that another report saying the Bears had informed Matt Nagy that the Lions game would be his last, was incorrect. Nagy himself said the report was inaccurate when he met with the media on Tuesday, and reportedly relayed the same message to his team. But according to Jay Glazer, Nagy was so unconvincing when addressing the team, that some still came up to him afterwards to offer their condolences.

“Matt Nagy, he went and he addressed the players and coaches, but the way did it was almost in like a solemn way,” Glazer said on FOX’s NFL pregame show. “So even afterwards, he said it’s not true, players and coaches were like, ‘Hey Matt, it’s been great.’

“So it got to the point where the owner George McCaskey, yesterday, came into the team meeting, addressed the entire team and said ‘Absolutely not true, he’s not been informed that he’s getting fired after this game. We’re not saying he won’t get fired at some point here.’ But they told the entire team that report, unequivocally, is not true.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears ... OHI0wV9Q3o

[Xee]

@HisRoyalSweetness Man, what a mess.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

A mess Xee? Surely the word you're looking for is 'collaboration'?

[dave99]

From Brad Biggs this morning:

No one else involved with the organization deserves credit for overcoming distractions because it’s impossible to convince me the “Nagy will be fired after Thursday” story didn’t originate from the team. To what degree the story evolved as it was passed along, I would be only guessing. Once the Bears lost control of things Tuesday, I imagine that’s when plans changed on the fly, especially knowing a public relations disaster would not impress anyone the team is potentially interested in pursuing in the future. That’s my hunch on the matter.
If the Bears were candid, they would admit to bungling the situation after the report — which the team has now thoroughly pooh-poohed — broke Tuesday morning.

This is one messed up organization. Anyone remember the Michael McCaskey/Dave McGinnis screw up? That was over 20 years ago and things have only gotten worse.
In the Athletic, Dan Pompei argues it is past time to hire a president of football operations. I agree. He even has some suggestions:
Trace Armstrong
Tony Dungy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Move Phillips over to CFO and let him focus solely on Arlington.
Make George Chairman Emeritus or some other honorary position and start operating like a multi-billion business instead of a corner liquor store that makes liberal use of inventory.

[RichH55]

From Brad Briggs this morning:

No one else involved with the organization deserves credit for overcoming distractions because it’s impossible to convince me the “Nagy will be fired after Thursday” story didn’t originate from the team. To what degree the story evolved as it was passed along, I would be only guessing. Once the Bears lost control of things Tuesday, I imagine that’s when plans changed on the fly, especially knowing a public relations disaster would not impress anyone the team is potentially interested in pursuing in the future. That’s my hunch on the matter.
If the Bears were candid, they would admit to bungling the situation after the report — which the team has now thoroughly pooh-poohed — broke Tuesday morning.

This is one messed up organization. Anyone remember the Michael McCaskey/Dave McGinnis screw up? That was over 20 years ago and things have only gotten worse.
In the Athletic, Dan Pompei argues it is past time to hire a president of football operations. I agree. He even has some suggestions:
Trace Armstrong
Tony Dungy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Move Phillips over to CFO and let him focus solely on Arlington.
Make George Chairman Emeritus or some other honorary position and start operating like a multi-billion business instead of a corner liquor store that makes liberal use of inventory.

Dave - I think this is an overreaction especially to this story

OR - it's just a long held belief of yours and this blip doesn't really impact it either way - You are leaning heavily into

But man - Fans really, really, really love overreacting to things - the less merit they have - the more ambiguous - the More the fan gets to be amateur Kremlinologist

My personal favorite - (Not Dave I don't think)
Fans who hold these two beliefs at once
1) The league Flat out rigs games
2) Its Nagy's fault we don't win those games anyway

[dave99]

From Brad Biggs this morning:


This is one messed up organization. Anyone remember the Michael McCaskey/Dave McGinnis screw up? That was over 20 years ago and things have only gotten worse.
In the Athletic, Dan Pompei argues it is past time to hire a president of football operations. I agree. He even has some suggestions:
Trace Armstrong
Tony Dungy
Ozzie Newsome
Rick Smith
Move Phillips over to CFO and let him focus solely on Arlington.
Make George Chairman Emeritus or some other honorary position and start operating like a multi-billion business instead of a corner liquor store that makes liberal use of inventory.

Dave - I think this is an overreaction especially to this story

OR - it's just a long held belief of yours and this blip doesn't really impact it either way - You are leaning heavily into

But man - Fans really, really, really love overreacting to things - the less merit they have - the more ambiguous - the More the fan gets to be amateur Kremlinologist

My personal favorite - (Not Dave I don't think)
Fans who hold these two beliefs at once
1) The league Flat out rigs games
2) Its Nagy's fault we don't win those games anyway

Biggs has been covering the Bears for 20 years, first for the Sun Times and now the Trib. I know it's just opinion but unlike most of us it's informed opinion.
I saw the Pompei article a little earlier. Yes it resonated, partly because it seems so logical and obvious and partly because of my experience in and with large organizations tells me the tone is set at the top.

One of the main arguments against this idea is that the position is essentially the same as a GM. This piece argues against that.

A little more from Pompei ( I know I am not allowed to post the whole article)

What the Bears need is a president of football operations in charge of hiring, firing and supervising the general manager and the head coach. The roles of the general manager and the coach don’t have to change much — only the person they report to.

The president of football operations should be what they call “a football person.” That means he has spent his life’s work concerning himself with the players and plays that decide outcomes. Better if he was one of those players before becoming someone who oversaw them.

It is not a novel concept that a football person should be in charge of football. But it has not been that way at Halas Hall for close to 40 years.

He goes on to note that George Halas was a "football person", so was Jim Finks, since then we have had the McCaskey's and an almost uninterrupted series of mediocre to bad teams and seasons.

So if this is an overreaction it's pretty slow and late in coming.
Maybe I ought to get my reflexes checked.

[RichH55]

Good post Dave - Thanks

[The Cooler King]

Dave - I think this is an overreaction especially to this story

OR - it's just a long held belief of yours and this blip doesn't really impact it either way - You are leaning heavily into

But man - Fans really, really, really love overreacting to things - the less merit they have - the more ambiguous - the More the fan gets to be amateur Kremlinologist

My personal favorite - (Not Dave I don't think)
Fans who hold these two beliefs at once
1) The league Flat out rigs games
2) Its Nagy's fault we don't win those games anyway

Biggs has been covering the Bears for 20 years, first for the Sun Times and now the Trib. I know it's just opinion but unlike most of us it's informed opinion.
I saw the Pompei article a little earlier. Yes it resonated, partly because it seems so logical and obvious and partly because of my experience in and with large organizations tells me the tone is set at the top.

One of the main arguments against this idea is that the position is essentially the same as a GM. This piece argues against that.

A little more from Pompei ( I know I am not allowed to post the whole article)

What the Bears need is a president of football operations in charge of hiring, firing and supervising the general manager and the head coach. The roles of the general manager and the coach don’t have to change much — only the person they report to.

The president of football operations should be what they call “a football person.” That means he has spent his life’s work concerning himself with the players and plays that decide outcomes. Better if he was one of those players before becoming someone who oversaw them.

It is not a novel concept that a football person should be in charge of football. But it has not been that way at Halas Hall for close to 40 years.

He goes on to note that George Halas was a "football person", so was Jim Finks, since then we have had the McCaskey's and an almost uninterrupted series of mediocre to bad teams and seasons.

So if this is an overreaction it's pretty slow and late in coming.
Maybe I ought to get my reflexes checked.

While it's not novel that a football person is in charge of football ops, that person is just the GM in basically every org. Fancy titles aside, having a president of football ops above the GM would change the GM role. It would no longer be equivalent to other GM roles.