UPDATE: Future Head Coaching Options Discussion

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dplank
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spudbear wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:26 pm To answer the original question, I'm a little cooler on Daboll than a month ago. I thought he could be a steal and help the Bears O join the 21st century. Buffalo is loaded with talent on O yet they're struggling. Don't know if defenses have caught up to them or not, but not maintaining a strong running attack is probably hurting them.
And for Harbaugh's availability, let's see what happens against OSU. If he can't deliver a W this year he may be shown the door.

I'd rather see a ST coordinator who has been in the league awhile rise up to HC for the Bears. Like Toub. The key will be finding a good OC and DC. He may be able to lure some with them knowing he won't be second-guessing them or pulling the rug out from him as a HC who was formerly an OC or DC. It's part of the reason why Chico left as Lubby tried to overshadow him. Notice how the D struggled after 2005?
Chico man...that dude is a coach. He belongs here, it's so wrong he's in DC.
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IE
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:46 pm
IE wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:30 pm

You mean Jameis. Their offense was pretty good and put up good numbers with lesser players prior to Brady.

I don't remember the Reid quote. But again - what is said is different than what is actually done. Byron's been running the Tampa offense for 3 years, and independently for the last 2. And he's earned Brady's respect. I see zero analogy beyond the superficial "all coaches say..."
It put up good numbers until the QB made critical mistakes that cost them and they couldn’t coach that out of him.

Justin Fields is a QB that makes dumb mistakes every game (he literally got injured because he ran instead of throwing the check down) and needs that coached out of him.

But there is no evidence he can coach up a young player into being better player—The Tampa offense didn’t take off and become elite until the greatest QB of all time showed up.

Tom Brady is not coming with him.
No shit? Tom Brady isn't coming with him? I never thought of that!

You're comparing JF1 to Jameis... and that's about all of this fine conversation, as far as I'm concerned. I get you.
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The Bears need a true leader who can run everything. He can hire the OC and DC to concentrate on those aspects. Maybe have a team who avoids stupid penalties, knows what to do every down, manages timeouts correctly, etc.
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TheWorldBreaker
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IE wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:28 am
TheWorldBreaker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:46 pm

It put up good numbers until the QB made critical mistakes that cost them and they couldn’t coach that out of him.

Justin Fields is a QB that makes dumb mistakes every game (he literally got injured because he ran instead of throwing the check down) and needs that coached out of him.

But there is no evidence he can coach up a young player into being better player—The Tampa offense didn’t take off and become elite until the greatest QB of all time showed up.

Tom Brady is not coming with him.
No shit? Tom Brady isn't coming with him? I never thought of that!

You're comparing JF1 to Jameis... and that's about all of this fine conversation, as far as I'm concerned. I get you.
I’m not comparing Justin Fields to Winston, I’m looking at Leftwich’s track record of developing a young player that didn’t have the mental aspects of the game down.

I don’t care what a stacked offense with Tom Brady does, I care about the offense with Winston for evaluation purposes and it doesn’t make me clamor for Leftwich.
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IE
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:35 am
IE wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:28 am

No shit? Tom Brady isn't coming with him? I never thought of that!

You're comparing JF1 to Jameis... and that's about all of this fine conversation, as far as I'm concerned. I get you.
I’m not comparing Justin Fields to Winston, I’m looking at Leftwich’s track record of developing a young player that didn’t have the mental aspects of the game down.

I don’t care what a stacked offense with Tom Brady does, I care about the offense with Winston for evaluation purposes and it doesn’t make me clamor for Leftwich.
He had a good season before Brady. You're dismissing it because of bad decision making by the QB. And you're drawing analogy to Fields. Which is bullshit.
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Bradys INTs are up (it seems?) in TB

That is part of the mindset down there
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IE wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:12 pm
TheWorldBreaker wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:35 am

I’m not comparing Justin Fields to Winston, I’m looking at Leftwich’s track record of developing a young player that didn’t have the mental aspects of the game down.

I don’t care what a stacked offense with Tom Brady does, I care about the offense with Winston for evaluation purposes and it doesn’t make me clamor for Leftwich.
He had a good season before Brady. You're dismissing it because of bad decision making by the QB. And you're drawing analogy to Fields. Which is bullshit.
Arians took over in 2019, in the 2020 draft after his first year (and the year before they got Brady), Tampa Bay finished with the 13th pick which they used to draft Wirfs, Oakland select Arnette with the Bears 19th pick.

If that was a good season what was the Bears?

A young QB that makes bad decisions is a part of the offense and coaching that out of the player is a part of the coaching staff’s job.

It’s possible Jameis Winston is an uncoachable moron but it’s also possible Leftwich isn’t a coach that can coach bad habits out of players.

All I’m saying is what he did or didn’t do with Winston should not be ignored in the evaluation of him because Fields is not a prodigy that is going to make coaches look good. Obviously, or Nagy would have signed an extension after Fields tore it up and won a ton of games.

And because Brady is the GOAT and is constantly changing calls at the line how the offense operates with him shouldn’t be a selling point for that offensive coordinator.
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Looking at the teams who might also be hiring a HC:
Bears: pretty certain but the McCaskeys are masters of stupidity
Giants: they pull the plug on Joe Judge
Broncos: might have lost patience with Vic with no playoffs in past 3 years
Dolphins: because Stephen Ross
WFT: because Daniel Snyder
Minny: if they don't make the playoffs
Dallas: if they suffer a collapse; Jerry's not patient
Vegas: interim coach not likely to get the job
Last edited by Grizzled on Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jameson and Fields are about as different a QB as it gets
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Did anyone here say they wanted Matt Nagy a few years ago?
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Washington isn’t firing Chico - if they did, he’d instantly be the leading candidate for the bears imo

Gettelman and Judge may be out in New Jersey

Agree on Zimmer - it’s playoffs or bust for him

I would think there may be a discussion or two about whacking Urban Meyer

If the Broncos fail to make the postseason, Vic is likely out in Denver.
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Artbest wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:24 am Washington isn’t firing Chico - if they did, he’d instantly be the leading candidate for the bears imo

Gettelman and Judge may be out in New Jersey

Agree on Zimmer - it’s playoffs or bust for him

I would think there may be a discussion or two about whacking Urban Meyer

If the Broncos fail to make the postseason, Vic is likely out in Denver.
Urban to USC just makes all of the sense (or LSU - by my guess is USC)
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:58 pm Urban to USC just makes all of the sense (or LSU - by my guess is USC)
LSU makes more sense to me than USC — the former doesn't care about potential scandals.
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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Artbest wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:24 am Washington isn’t firing Chico - if they did, he’d instantly be the leading candidate for the bears imo

Gettelman and Judge may be out in New Jersey

Agree on Zimmer - it’s playoffs or bust for him

I would think there may be a discussion or two about whacking Urban Meyer

If the Broncos fail to make the postseason, Vic is likely out in Denver.
WFT did get into the playoffs in 2020 with a division win so Chico is probably safe even though they had higher hopes for this year.
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thunderspirit wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:03 pm
RichH55 wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:58 pm Urban to USC just makes all of the sense (or LSU - by my guess is USC)
LSU makes more sense to me than USC — the former doesn't care about potential scandals.
USC had Pete Carroll - I don't think they care either as long as they win
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Vic back to the Bears? I could think of worse things assuming he brought along a competent OC.
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dplank
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Vic, Bowles, Harbaugh, Roman, Daboll, Day, Moore

I’d be excited if we got any of these guys really, they all look like big upgrades.
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Fangio? Are you guys that big of homers, kool aid drinkers, rose colored glass wearers? Denver fans can't wait for him to be launched, they have not been impressed.

2019 - 7-9. Offensive points for ranked 28
2020 - 5-11 " "
2021 - 5-5 Offensive points for ranked 23

His Ds have been fare (really good this year), but his record says he is not good and his offensives suck. Shurmur is there and he has experience but not the results there.

Easy pass for me.
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In defense of Fangio, he's not exactly had an abundance of talent or stability at the most important position. The QBs he's has had to work with make those Nagy's had look like a veritable feast of talent.

2019:
Joe Flacco (8 games/8 starts - Passer rating 85.4)
Drew Lock (5 games/5 starts, Passer rating 89.7)
Brandon Allen (3 games/3 starts - Passer rating 68.3)

2020:
Drew Lock (13 games/13 starts, Passer rating 75.4)
Jeff Driskel (3 games/1 start, Passer rating 78.4)
Brett Rypien (3 games/1 start, Passer rating 66.1)
(All three QBs were out due to Covid in Week 12)

2021:
Teddy Bridgewater (10 games/10 starts, Passer rating 98.8)
Drew Lock (1 game/0 starts, Passer rating 52.3)

This season is the first in which Vic has had competent QB play and the 5 games the Broncos have won are those in which Bridgewater had a passer rating of over 100 whilst the 5 they've lost have been those where he's had a passer rating below 100. He's ranked 12th in the league in passer rating but just 23rd in QBR, so he's still only an average QB.

You look at that roster and they look like they're just a QB away from being a very good team, however their GM passed on Fields and Jones in the draft claiming that a franchise CB is harder to find than a franchise QB! No wonder they're a rumoured destination for Aaron Rogers if leaves Green Bay next year.

If Fangio is fired then I can't imagine the Bears would even consider him for head coach given that they passed on him previously in favour of Nagy even after his impressive track record as a DC over many years. If the head coach they do pick were to bring him back as DC I'd imagine we'd all be very happy indeed though and so would the players!
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Yeah. No to Fangio.
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My alternative to Kellen Moore = Don Martindale.

I think DM is an idea coach for the Bears. Not sure how he’ll develop JF1, but that’s why you hire a good OC. I trust Martindale to select a great OC.

Moore is a bit risky, knows offense but can he run the coaching team? I’m more confident Martindale can.
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I'm going w/ him for HC before anyone Else grabs him , and Someone will . We NEED a HC who can adapt to a QB's strength's , and look what's he's done w / Dallas. In Trurth he has done a Fantastic Job w/ what in reality is w/out a Stud RB. Check the Stats . HEY! He can " Game Plan " for opponents ! 16 points a game don't cut it!
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Been a big fan of his since his QB days at Boise State. He's got a winner's mentality. Dallas does have a diversified offense under him but look at his talent: OL, QB, WRs, Zeke (7th in the NFL in rushing). Whomever hires him as Head Coach will obviously be a bad team lacking weapons. I think he can improve a team and is worth a serious look.
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I could get excited about McDaniels, hopefully he learned from his prior fail in Denver. Leftwich feels just like Nagy to me, I don't buy for one second that it's all his offense and Arians is hands off.
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God - that really is an interesting question RE: Arians And the larger question of impact a HC has / Coaching Tree stuff

Im guessing the examples start to stack up both ways (though I'd love to see a study on it)
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I was never really on the Daboll train. His track record before Josh Allen isn’t good. And some people credit the Ken Dorsey, Bill’s QB coach, for Allen’s growth. Additionally, the times I’ve watched the Bills, it sure seems like Daboll hates running the ball more than Nagy.

At the point, I’m fully aboard the Jim Harbaugh crazy train.
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dplank wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:22 am I could get excited about McDaniels, hopefully he learned from his prior fail in Denver.
I don't trust McDaniels. The way he went about things in Denver leading to Cutler demanding a trade, his results on the field, the scandal about video-taping another team's walkthrough (the 49ers in London IIRC) which he denied watching, his behaviour in pulling out of the Colts job within hours of them announcing it... there are just a lot of red flags about him. He might be a brilliant OC, but I seriously question whether he's HC material.
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Eriebear wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:55 pm In Trurth he has done a Fantastic Job w/ what in reality is w/out a Stud RB.
Bit surprised to learn that Ezekiel Elliot is not considered a stud RB any more.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:40 pm
dplank wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:22 am I could get excited about McDaniels, hopefully he learned from his prior fail in Denver.
I don't trust McDaniels. The way he went about things in Denver leading to Cutler demanding a trade, his results on the field, the scandal about video-taping another team's walkthrough (the 49ers in London IIRC) which he denied watching, his behaviour in pulling out of the Colts job within hours of them announcing it... there are just a lot of red flags about him. He might be a brilliant OC, but I seriously question whether he's HC material.
Yeah, he's a hard no from me too.
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