Another Search for #1 TE?

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southdakbearfan wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:02 pm I have never seen an offense where receivers are always standing still when catching the ball like nagy’s curl heavy offense this year. There is no yac potential and the catches themself have to be more difficult as contact is simultaneous or during the catch.

We saw 2 plays where personnel were moving and they turned into huge gains/touchdowns last week.

Gauging any receivers, other than Robinson’s half assed efforts, is almost impossible.
Never was that more apparent than the game Sunday night. JJ was shutting down Adams fairly well. Everyone and his brother commented after the game how GB made adjustments including putting Adams in the slot and running other types of plays to take JJ out of covering him. Meanwhile, the Bears put up 27 in the first half (admittedly 7 on a punt return) with several original offensive calls for long TDs. In the 2nd half, it looked like Bear receivers were playing with boots of concrete on their feet - no separation, no use of the speed employed so effectively in the first half.
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Grizzled wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:36 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:02 pm I have never seen an offense where receivers are always standing still when catching the ball like nagy’s curl heavy offense this year. There is no yac potential and the catches themself have to be more difficult as contact is simultaneous or during the catch.

We saw 2 plays where personnel were moving and they turned into huge gains/touchdowns last week.

Gauging any receivers, other than Robinson’s half assed efforts, is almost impossible.
Never was that more apparent than the game Sunday night. JJ was shutting down Adams fairly well. Everyone and his brother commented after the game how GB made adjustments including putting Adams in the slot and running other types of plays to take JJ out of covering him. Meanwhile, the Bears put up 27 in the first half (admittedly 7 on a punt return) with several original offensive calls for long TDs. In the 2nd half, it looked like Bear receivers were playing with boots of concrete on their feet - no separation, no use of the speed employed so effectively in the first half.
Because Lazor called the first half and Nagy called the second. I have zero concrete proof other than I feel it in my soul.
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They've been running those fucking hitches and curls for Nagy's entire tenure, and it will never stop as long as he's there. It is a core part of the offense, and I'm guessing his version of a key thing to go to often in order to set up other things. Which he never gets to, because all the stars in the universe need to align for Nagy to be consistently successful.

The most egregious thing about these favorite play calls of Nagy (hitches, curls, totally telegraphed WR screens) is his use of the least appropriate weapons in the role... using the smallest fastest guys who are most dangerous on the move, and instead bringing them to a stand-still and putting them in a position to be murdered by guys twice their size. Taylor Gabiel. Tarik. Miller. Mooney. Byrd. He's like a speed receiver serial killer. The Deep Threat Slayer.

With 5 TEs on the team - at least 3-4 of which are really good receivers.
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IE wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:02 pm They've been running those fucking hitches and curls for Nagy's entire tenure, and it will never stop as long as he's there. It is a core part of the offense, and I'm guessing his version of a key thing to go to often in order to set up other things. Which he never gets to, because all the stars in the universe need to align for Nagy to be consistently successful.

The most egregious thing about these favorite play calls of Nagy (hitches, curls, totally telegraphed WR screens) is his use of the least appropriate weapons in the role... using the smallest fastest guys who are most dangerous on the move, and instead bringing them to a stand-still and putting them in a position to be murdered by guys twice their size. Taylor Gabiel. Tarik. Miller. Mooney. Byrd. He's like a speed receiver serial killer. The Deep Threat Slayer.

With 5 TEs on the team - at least 3-4 of which are really good receivers.
It's maddening and I don't understand it. He (I assume) asked Pace to get him more speed on offense...Pace gets him Goodwin, Byrd, and Grant. Yet Nagy still uses them like they are Javon Wims.
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wab wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:39 pm
IE wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:02 pm They've been running those fucking hitches and curls for Nagy's entire tenure, and it will never stop as long as he's there. It is a core part of the offense, and I'm guessing his version of a key thing to go to often in order to set up other things. Which he never gets to, because all the stars in the universe need to align for Nagy to be consistently successful.

The most egregious thing about these favorite play calls of Nagy (hitches, curls, totally telegraphed WR screens) is his use of the least appropriate weapons in the role... using the smallest fastest guys who are most dangerous on the move, and instead bringing them to a stand-still and putting them in a position to be murdered by guys twice their size. Taylor Gabiel. Tarik. Miller. Mooney. Byrd. He's like a speed receiver serial killer. The Deep Threat Slayer.

With 5 TEs on the team - at least 3-4 of which are really good receivers.
It's maddening and I don't understand it. He (I assume) asked Pace to get him more speed on offense...Pace gets him Goodwin, Byrd, and Grant. Yet Nagy still uses them like they are Javon Wims.
Reading between quotes and pressers, Nagy calls plays based on down and distance. ("Yeah we stopped Foles from running the hurry up because we had a play that we thought would work at the spot on the field")
We've seen no evidence that he calls plays to take advantage of opponent's tendencies, nor does he call plays to take advantage of individual matchups that our talent should be able to win.
Nagy also does call plays without taking the personnel into account on either side of the ball, on too many instances to count.
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I think that he thinks he's being clever. What's the last thing the DC will expect when I have 3 speedsters on the field? Short hitch routes that don't use their speed at all - that'll fool 'em! And then when it doesn't work, he thinks, "They'll never expect me to do it AGAIN, especially after last time". Repeat this thinking x100. Eventually he'll be right, but we'll be 4-9 and out of the playoffs by then. And he'll then wag his finger and say I told you so, Nagy 2.0 is finally here!
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Jesse James has Covid and Cole Kmet missed practice today due to a non-Covid illness, so maybe Horsted might get his chance... although he also missed practice with a non-Covid illness too.
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dplank wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:07 pm I think that he thinks he's being clever. What's the last thing the DC will expect when I have 3 speedsters on the field? Short hitch routes that don't use their speed at all - that'll fool 'em! And then when it doesn't work, he thinks, "They'll never expect me to do it AGAIN, especially after last time". Repeat this thinking x100. Eventually he'll be right, but we'll be 4-9 and out of the playoffs by then. And he'll then wag his finger and say I told you so, Nagy 2.0 is finally here!
TO play devil's advocate (not the pin ball game) - Dplank - I know you are
A) A huge proponent of build the lines, build the lines
B) You are on record as saying we have somewhere between a terrible OL and maybe an all-time bad OL (In your opinion the Tennessee game last year basically didn't count because the OL was just that bad)

How many go routes can we do under those above assumptions?
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:41 pm Jesse James has Covid and Cole Kmet missed practice today due to a non-Covid illness, so maybe Horsted might get his chance... although he also missed practice with a non-Covid illness too.
There you go. A silver lining.
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RichH55 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 8:14 pm
dplank wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 3:07 pm I think that he thinks he's being clever. What's the last thing the DC will expect when I have 3 speedsters on the field? Short hitch routes that don't use their speed at all - that'll fool 'em! And then when it doesn't work, he thinks, "They'll never expect me to do it AGAIN, especially after last time". Repeat this thinking x100. Eventually he'll be right, but we'll be 4-9 and out of the playoffs by then. And he'll then wag his finger and say I told you so, Nagy 2.0 is finally here!
TO play devil's advocate (not the pin ball game) - Dplank - I know you are
A) A huge proponent of build the lines, build the lines
B) You are on record as saying we have somewhere between a terrible OL and maybe an all-time bad OL (In your opinion the Tennessee game last year basically didn't count because the OL was just that bad)

How many go routes can we do under those above assumptions?
Eh - Feel free to ignore - I might want to get on this Anti-Hitch bandwagon:)

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Well, first thing is my post you quoted was just for a laugh, wasn’t serious obviously. Even McNagy isn’t that dumb.

Regarding route selection vs pass pro, it’s highly situational as is our blocking performance. Yes, the Tennessee game last year was the worst blocking performance I had ever seen, but then the Cleveland game was actually worse than that. Our line sucks, but can be serviceable when healthy and facing a matchup they can handle. Just because they were “worst I’ve ever seen” against Tenn doesn’t mean it’s that way every week, injuries played a big part in that performance- IIRC most of the starting unit was out that week. Gameplan adjustments need to be made in those cases, Nagy didn’t do that in Tenn or Cleveland, Nagy can’t seem to adjust his own underwear.

So when we are playing a game where the line is holding up ok, I want more downfield and/or vertical routes.

Also it’s not necessarily true that a vertical or even a 9 route require great pass pro, that’s also situational. If they are in press man single high, you can run a go route and get the ball out as fast as a hitch route - faster even. 3 steps, plant, and lift the ball over the corner who your WR needs to beat off the line. Slants also are quick pass plays that have your WR moving up field instead of laterally or backwards, we rarely see slants. TE seam routes are not long developing routes either. And of course when they are teeing off on your QB, screens can be very effective in slowing that pass rush down.

So basically what I’m saying is, more than one thing can be true at the same time if you don’t over generalize things. Tenn / Cle blocking was in fact historically bad, that doesn’t mean every game thereafter is the going to be the same.

The heart of this particular problem (not every problem) is Nagy’s inability to adjust his plan under live fire. And underpinning the entire discussion is the irrefutable fact that Nagy's offense has failed, dramatically, in John Shoopian fashion.
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Fair enough Dplank - Fair enough

Appreciate the post
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Why don't the Bears play Jesper Horsted more?
Kay C.
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I've received a lot of questions since Monday night about Jesper Horsted, who caught his second touchdown pass of the season against the Vikings on just his third target of the year. I think coaches would say that the reason Horsted hasn't had as many opportunities as other players at his position is because Bears tight ends are heavily involved as blockers in the running game, and Horsted—a converted college wide receiver—is more of a pure receiving tight end and not as much as a dual threat as Cole Kmet, Jimmy Graham and Jesse James, all of whom have excelled as blockers this season.

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"excelled as blockers this season."

Who is the dumbass that wrote that response to the question? Clearly he/she doesn't watch Bears football.
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So you trot out two small guys, Mooney and Byrd, as well as an averaged sized guy, Newsome, as your top 3 receivers. Then you have someone on the bench in Horsted who was a WR in college and don't utilize him?
Dumbasses.
All Horsted does is either get open or use his size make space for a reception. And most of the passes were to Kmet, with two targets and one reception to Graham.
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