Ted Phillips Hot Seat

[wab]

It's Sports Mockery....but it's repeating what Florio said. So...

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... -jeopardy/

[UOK]

Absolutely nothing to this. Ted Phillips will be in the organization so long as the McCaskeys own the team. His title will not change. His role will not change. He's going nowhere.

[IE]

LOL ... "his misdeeds"... as if he's deliberately undermining the franchise rather than just being incompetent.

The guy clearly has a relationship with the owners that is real and needs to be factored in. They know that change has to happen if Virginia wants to see some success, and at the same time they don't want to hurt Ted. So IF he wouldn't accept them giving up all the football parts of his job because of how it might like and his perception that he can be a football person, I think they could promote (peter principle) him into basically a mostly inactive role in between the owners and new operations and new business-side person (of his choosing). Then he could basically do nothing more than rubber-stamping what his useful replacement on the football ops side does. I do see a way he can stay in the organization AND improvement happening if that's what the McC's want. They can achieve a separation of business ops and football ops with Ted still around.

I've always kind of disagreed with the notion that change has to happen above the GM for the Bears to be "fixed"... but of course that has always depended on the scope and role/power of the GM. Title is one thing. True power is another (which is why McDaniels turned down Indy at the last minute). Pace might be OK as a GM under a powerful football operations person...but most powerful football ops people coming in would want their own people. The more I think about it, IF a change is going to happen with Ted... the timing would be now, and with the entire unholy trinity out of the Bear football world, effectively.

[The Cooler King]

He assumed the president role in 1999. It can’t be a coincidence that the organization has just six playoff appearances and two playoff wins in that entire stretch. Shameful for a franchise with such a deep tradition of winning.

People will write this stuff like the 70s and 90s didn't exist. The Bears have the 80s largely thanks to the efforts of Finks, who Halas basically pushed out after he did all the heavy lifting and then enjoyed the success of the 85 team. The past two decades don't look that bad compared to the 90s. The "tradition of winning" , almost all predates the NFL-AFL merger.

Guys, our franchise just ain't that special.

[The Cooler King]

Absolutely nothing to this. Ted Phillips will be in the organization so long as the McCaskeys own the team. His title will not change. His role will not change. He's going nowhere.

While I agree he will be around as long as McCaskeys own, I do think titles and roles could change slightly. It will be largely on Ted's terms, but with the stadium deal especially, there's probably some org reshuffling that will occur anyways. Someone will get elevated to a new role, just a matter of where that focus is. And McCaskeys would be smart to make sure Ted is grooming his eventual replacement, even if Ted will kind of call the shots on how that works.

[The Marshall Plan]

The healing can only truly begin when the McCaskey's sell.

Otherwise the only chance they have is luck.

The McCaskey's ARE capable of building a winner. I mean they did it 35+ years ago, but they did do it. Technically that was Halas so maybe they aren't?

The problem is that I think they're turned off by the whole idea of a strongman in charge of football. Ever since Ditka it's been one milquetoast coordinator at HC or another.

So yeah Nagy is most likely a goner.
Pace I think is 50/50 about being launched.
Phillips? Not a chance in hell because of the stadium renovation and now Arlington Heights.

Until the McCaskey's are willing to give up the reigns to an alpha football mind (no idea as to who that could be) any type of 2018 season we have is going to be out of sheer lightning in a bottle.

[IE]

The healing can only truly begin when the McCaskey's sell.

Otherwise the only chance they have is luck.

The McCaskey's ARE capable of building a winner. I mean they did it 35+ years ago, but they did do it. Technically that was Halas so maybe they aren't?

The problem is that I think they're turned off by the whole idea of a strongman in charge of football. Ever since Ditka it's been one milquetoast coordinator at HC or another.

So yeah Nagy is most likely a goner.
Pace I think is 50/50 about being launched.
Phillips? Not a chance in hell because of the stadium renovation and now Arlington Heights.

Until the McCaskey's are willing to give up the reigns to an alpha football mind (no idea as to who that could be) any type of 2018 season we have is going to be out of sheer lightning in a bottle.

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.

[The Cooler King]

The healing can only truly begin when the McCaskey's sell.

Otherwise the only chance they have is luck.

The McCaskey's ARE capable of building a winner. I mean they did it 35+ years ago, but they did do it. Technically that was Halas so maybe they aren't?

The problem is that I think they're turned off by the whole idea of a strongman in charge of football. Ever since Ditka it's been one milquetoast coordinator at HC or another.

So yeah Nagy is most likely a goner.
Pace I think is 50/50 about being launched.
Phillips? Not a chance in hell because of the stadium renovation and now Arlington Heights.

Until the McCaskey's are willing to give up the reigns to an alpha football mind (no idea as to who that could be) any type of 2018 season we have is going to be out of sheer lightning in a bottle.

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.

I doubt they want to actually move Phillips, but if it's a necessity to add some execs anyways for stadium deal, they do have the unique opportunity to craft the best PR front possible. Unless Ted's ego stands in the way and he wants to be one of the forward faces, it would be a convenient time for change and some title shuffling.

[IE]

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.

I doubt they want to actually move Phillips, but if it's a necessity to add some execs anyways for stadium deal, they do have the unique opportunity to craft the best PR front possible. Unless Ted's ego stands in the way and he wants to be one of the forward faces, it would be a convenient time for change and some title shuffling.

Let us pray.

[The Marshall Plan]

The healing can only truly begin when the McCaskey's sell.

Otherwise the only chance they have is luck.

The McCaskey's ARE capable of building a winner. I mean they did it 35+ years ago, but they did do it. Technically that was Halas so maybe they aren't?

The problem is that I think they're turned off by the whole idea of a strongman in charge of football. Ever since Ditka it's been one milquetoast coordinator at HC or another.

So yeah Nagy is most likely a goner.
Pace I think is 50/50 about being launched.
Phillips? Not a chance in hell because of the stadium renovation and now Arlington Heights.

Until the McCaskey's are willing to give up the reigns to an alpha football mind (no idea as to who that could be) any type of 2018 season we have is going to be out of sheer lightning in a bottle.

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.

Yes, what you're saying makes total sense. I agree.

Now would be the time to split Ted's role into two parts.

Some 8 word job title that is in charge of the business side including Arlington Heights. Ted could go there.

Then the Omnipotent Overlord Of Football Operations or something like that. The GM would report into this person.

Honestly given all the work Arlington Heights is going to be, splitting Ted's existing role into two parts makes a lot of sense.

But it all goes back to what kind of people the McCaskey's will allow in that corporate office.

[The Cooler King]

I doubt they want to actually move Phillips, but if it's a necessity to add some execs anyways for stadium deal, they do have the unique opportunity to craft the best PR front possible. Unless Ted's ego stands in the way and he wants to be one of the forward faces, it would be a convenient time for change and some title shuffling.

Let us pray.

I don't actually care that much. I mean Ted is an ornery little bastard and I hate hearing other fans complain, but I stand firm that the Bears issues with the football side aren't primarily a issue of organizational structure. They just need to get the right football person at the head of ops and keep them there.

If I look at Phillips official GM hires I'd say they did above average once, God awful once, and below average once. In a sample size of 3 theres still lots of variance, and I don't think most ownership groups, including any potential new one, would be uniquely qualified to ID a brilliant football mind. Just lots of luck involved IMO. They gotta just keep trying to find the right head guy.

[The Cooler King]

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.

Yes, what you're saying makes total sense. I agree.

Now would be the time to split Ted's role into two parts.

Some 8 word job title that is in charge of the business side including Arlington Heights. Ted could go there.

Then the Omnipotent Overlord Of Football Operations or something like that. The GM would report into this person.

Honestly given all the work Arlington Heights is going to be, splitting Ted's existing role into two parts makes a lot of sense.

I think that overlord person would be overseer of all operations, not just football.

So something like
CEO (of Bears and Arlington Park Dev) - Phillips
COO (or Pres) of all things Bears - New person

Reporting to COO include VPs of Finance, Marketing, Legal, and GM. So still primarily a business role, but if that person has football background it's certainly not a bad thing. GM should be the most independent operator of these "VP" level roles.

GM on down is the same as it is, though I wouldn't mind seeing a new GM add some new analytical focused roles to the overall FO staff.

[IE]

Let us pray.

I don't actually care that much. I mean Ted is an ornery little bastard and I hate hearing other fans complain, but I stand firm that the Bears issues with the football side aren't primarily a issue of organizational structure. They just need to get the right football person at the head of ops and keep them there.

If I look at Phillips official GM hires I'd say they did above average once, God awful once, and below average once. In a sample size of 3 theres still lots of variance, and I don't think most ownership groups, including any potential new one, would be uniquely qualified to ID a brilliant football mind. Just lots of luck involved IMO. They gotta just keep trying to find the right head guy.

I've always been more in your camp here... partly out of resignation that they had a relationship and inertia with Ted that wasn't likely to change, and also for the reasons that you mentioned (if they had lucked into an amazing football person, I do think things would be different).

But the more I think about it, I think they should take the opportunity presenting itself right now (stadium effort, Nagy leaving, Pace maybe leaving, team to be build around JF1) to make the change in Ted's role and allow him to save face (maybe even become MORE powerful within the org) while also hedging that maybe - just maybe - replacing him with a better football operations person would get better results.

[IE]

I wouldn't mind seeing a new GM add some new analytical focused roles to the overall FO staff.

You mean like someone who would understand the statistical basis for going for it on 4th and inches down 11 in the 4th quarter? Those are some advanced analytics, my friend! LOL

[The Cooler King]

I wouldn't mind seeing a new GM add some new analytical focused roles to the overall FO staff.

You mean like someone who would understand the statistical basis for going for it on 4th and inches down 11 in the 4th quarter? Those are some advanced analytics, my friend! LOL

I'd take it about 3 steps forward (give me the guy who goes for 2 down 8 late), but relatively simple 4th down logic would be a start lol.

[The Cooler King]

I don't actually care that much. I mean Ted is an ornery little bastard and I hate hearing other fans complain, but I stand firm that the Bears issues with the football side aren't primarily a issue of organizational structure. They just need to get the right football person at the head of ops and keep them there.

If I look at Phillips official GM hires I'd say they did above average once, God awful once, and below average once. In a sample size of 3 theres still lots of variance, and I don't think most ownership groups, including any potential new one, would be uniquely qualified to ID a brilliant football mind. Just lots of luck involved IMO. They gotta just keep trying to find the right head guy.

I've always been more in your camp here... partly out of resignation that they had a relationship and inertia with Ted that wasn't likely to change, and also for the reasons that you mentioned (if they had lucked into an amazing football person, I do think things would be different).

But the more I think about it, I think they should take the opportunity presenting itself right now (stadium effort, Nagy leaving, Pace maybe leaving, team to be build around JF1) to make the change in Ted's role and allow him to save face (maybe even become MORE powerful within the org) while also hedging that maybe - just maybe - replacing him with a better football operations person would get better results.

Hard to imagine more power than what I presume he has.

Maybe more financial. There's probably gonna be a bevy of joint ventures with incentive based profit distributions on the stadium development. Throwing him a 5-10% share of the teams' incentive schedule on the stadium profits, but in exchange he cedes some team ops control to this COO/Pres person. And then his incentives are properly aligned to focus on the stadium and relinquish team operations control.

Once he has that 8 figure stadium profit payout he might actually contemplate retirement or semi-retirment.

[Mikefive]

There's no way in Hades that the McKnuckleheads are going to boot Ted. Not with a stadium deal in the works over the next decade. They might give him a different role or title and I'd be fine with that. Just keep him away from the GM and the football side.

[Hema2.0]

Actually wouldn't/couldn't the stadium effort be perfect smoke screen to remove Ted from football operations while saving face? One could argue that the business side is so much bigger now that they have to divide responsibilities to address it. Strike while the iron is hot, Virginia.
[/quote]

IE, I think you nailed it here. There is so much going on here that the timing just seems perfect.

[The Marshall Plan]

Yes, what you're saying makes total sense. I agree.

Now would be the time to split Ted's role into two parts.

Some 8 word job title that is in charge of the business side including Arlington Heights. Ted could go there.

Then the Omnipotent Overlord Of Football Operations or something like that. The GM would report into this person.

Honestly given all the work Arlington Heights is going to be, splitting Ted's existing role into two parts makes a lot of sense.

I think that overlord person would be overseer of all operations, not just football.

So something like
CEO (of Bears and Arlington Park Dev) - Phillips
COO (or Pres) of all things Bears - New person

Reporting to COO include VPs of Finance, Marketing, Legal, and GM. So still primarily a business role, but if that person has football background it's certainly not a bad thing. GM should be the most independent operator of these "VP" level roles.

GM on down is the same as it is, though I wouldn't mind seeing a new GM add some new analytical focused roles to the overall FO staff.

I do not know how it traditionally works.

My preference would be to have a football guy. His only job (LOL YOU HAVE ONE JOB!) is football.

Then the paper pusher.

[The Cooler King]

I think that overlord person would be overseer of all operations, not just football.

So something like
CEO (of Bears and Arlington Park Dev) - Phillips
COO (or Pres) of all things Bears - New person

Reporting to COO include VPs of Finance, Marketing, Legal, and GM. So still primarily a business role, but if that person has football background it's certainly not a bad thing. GM should be the most independent operator of these "VP" level roles.

GM on down is the same as it is, though I wouldn't mind seeing a new GM add some new analytical focused roles to the overall FO staff.

I do not know how it traditionally works.

My preference would be to have a football guy. His only job (LOL YOU HAVE ONE JOB!) is football.

Then the paper pusher.

I don't have direct knowledge of interworkings of teams (maybe dplank can chime in at some point as he's done some work with teams) .

But based on publically available web info:

There's two broad archetypes and a few exceptions.

1. Active owner or ownership family who serves primary business role, typically with a owner who carries a Pres or CEO title.

2. Less active owner who hires a non-owner executive as CEO/Pres to carry out most business functions on behalf of owners.

Now I'm pretty sure within those groups there's still a variance in exact ownership involvement that a title can't show, but the titles are pretty consistent at least.

Among the first group you have two who in addition to business functions, the owner runs football ops directly (Dallas, Cincinnati).

Among the other 30 teams who hire a GM (or occassionally HC) to head football operations, most would not qualify as any sort of football people.

Possible exceptions:
1. Washington has a former player as President. He does have an MBA, was a player union rep, and a brief managemenr consulting career.
WFT's Pres before him was a former GM. That former guy (Allen) did hire a GM, but undermined and fired him quickly. So I think it was more like he was still GM. So WFT has pretty consistently had a football Pres, but their org/power structure isn't clear and I think Snyder is a big time meddler. He hired their coach (Rivera) before their current Pres or GM.
2. Atlanta's CEO is a former GM. He is the son of a NFL coach, but his primary background is law. He had a law career before NFL and probably fits more of an old school GM role that often straddled business/football equally. Things have become much more specialized in the past 20-30 years. When he was TBs GM he was part of negotiating a stadium deal. What GM still does that sort of thing? Maybe only one other.
3. Green Bays president is a former NFL player. But he built a long career as a college athletic director preceeding becoming a NFL exec.
4. In Denver, Elway is now President, but I know many view it as a semi-retirement and I suspect that another driver was the death of their owner which kind of pushed down responsibilities as they sort thru the estate. And while Elway is definitely a football guy he actually does have business holdings/history that are somewhat significant. So he arguably has solid biz credentials in addition to football ones.

That's really it for President type roles who qualify as 'football guy' backgrounds.

Of the rest, President/CEOs are
1. Owners
2. People who worked their way up through a NFL franchise, typically by way of finance or legal, occassionally marketing. Not thru the personnel dept except as noted above.
3. Executives poached from other sports (typically baseball)

Lastly, who are GMs?
2 owners as de facto GMs (DAL, CIN)
2 coaches as de facto GM (NE, SEA)
2 GMs from non scouting backgrounds (NO, PHI)
Then the other 26 GMs who primarily come from a scouting background, typically coming through a draft or player personnel role before becoming GM. Of these 26, there are a handful where the Head coach does potentially push the role closer towards the NE/SEA model where the coach carries more org power but probably carries less FO duties directly (KC, WFT, LV before Gruden was fired).

Who those GMs report to may vary a little too, but whether it's an owner directly or a Pres, it's still not a football person. NFL has really coalesced behind a pretty common definition of GM due to anti-tampering and Rooney rule policies.

Saints are probably the last franchise with an old school GM. Loomis is highly involved with business aspects which is why he also has a role with the Pelicans and other businesses of the owner (especially since Tom Benson died and his wife inherited his businesses). Came up thru finance side with Seahawks originally.

So really how the Bears have structured themselves since naming Phillips Pres and hiring Angelo has been standard operating procedure from an org structure. If they hired a primary football president I guess they would most similarly resemble Washington. Up to you if you feel that's good or not. One thing to note, WFT recently made the naughty list from Goodeel for teams not filling their stadium as well... For whatever it's worth I'm not sure they are a model franchise on the field or on the books to follow.

[Magnum_Ursus]

My (fantastical) hope for how George finally deals with Ted.


[video][/video]

[IE]

I do not know how it traditionally works.

My preference would be to have a football guy. His only job (LOL YOU HAVE ONE JOB!) is football.

Then the paper pusher.

I don't have direct knowledge of interworkings of teams (maybe dplank can chime in at some point as he's done some work with teams) .

But based on publically available web info:

There's two broad archetypes and a few exceptions.

1. Active owner or ownership family who serves primary business role, typically with a owner who carries a Pres or CEO title.

2. Less active owner who hires a non-owner executive as CEO/Pres to carry out most business functions on behalf of owners.

Now I'm pretty sure within those groups there's still a variance in exact ownership involvement that a title can't show, but the titles are pretty consistent at least.

Among the first group you have two who in addition to business functions, the owner runs football ops directly (Dallas, Cincinnati).

Among the other 30 teams who hire a GM (or occassionally HC) to head football operations, most would not qualify as any sort of football people.

Possible exceptions:
1. Washington has a former player as President. He does have an MBA, was a player union rep, and a brief managemenr consulting career.
WFT's Pres before him was a former GM. That former guy (Allen) did hire a GM, but undermined and fired him quickly. So I think it was more like he was still GM. So WFT has pretty consistently had a football Pres, but their org/power structure isn't clear and I think Snyder is a big time meddler. He hired their coach (Rivera) before their current Pres or GM.
2. Atlanta's CEO is a former GM. He is the son of a NFL coach, but his primary background is law. He had a law career before NFL and probably fits more of an old school GM role that often straddled business/football equally. Things have become much more specialized in the past 20-30 years. When he was TBs GM he was part of negotiating a stadium deal. What GM still does that sort of thing? Maybe only one other.
3. Green Bays president is a former NFL player. But he built a long career as a college athletic director preceeding becoming a NFL exec.
4. In Denver, Elway is now President, but I know many view it as a semi-retirement and I suspect that another driver was the death of their owner which kind of pushed down responsibilities as they sort thru the estate. And while Elway is definitely a football guy he actually does have business holdings/history that are somewhat significant. So he arguably has solid biz credentials in addition to football ones.

That's really it for President type roles who qualify as 'football guy' backgrounds.

Of the rest, President/CEOs are
1. Owners
2. People who worked their way up through a NFL franchise, typically by way of finance or legal, occassionally marketing. Not thru the personnel dept except as noted above.
3. Executives poached from other sports (typically baseball)

Lastly, who are GMs?
2 owners as de facto GMs (DAL, CIN)
2 coaches as de facto GM (NE, SEA)
2 GMs from non scouting backgrounds (NO, PHI)
Then the other 26 GMs who primarily come from a scouting background, typically coming through a draft or player personnel role before becoming GM. Of these 26, there are a handful where the Head coach does potentially push the role closer towards the NE/SEA model where the coach carries more org power but probably carries less FO duties directly (KC, WFT, LV before Gruden was fired).

Who those GMs report to may vary a little too, but whether it's an owner directly or a Pres, it's still not a football person. NFL has really coalesced behind a pretty common definition of GM due to anti-tampering and Rooney rule policies.

Saints are probably the last franchise with an old school GM. Loomis is highly involved with business aspects which is why he also has a role with the Pelicans and other businesses of the owner (especially since Tom Benson died and his wife inherited his businesses). Came up thru finance side with Seahawks originally.

So really how the Bears have structured themselves since naming Phillips Pres and hiring Angelo has been standard operating procedure from an org structure. If they hired a primary football president I guess they would most similarly resemble Washington. Up to you if you feel that's good or not. One thing to note, WFT recently made the naughty list from Goodeel for teams not filling their stadium as well... For whatever it's worth I'm not sure they are a model franchise on the field or on the books to follow.

Yeah - totally agree that the Bears aren't incompetent or unconventional when it comes to establishing the structure. They've just missed. And as we've discussed before, they clearly TRIED to get it right. And they transparently admitted they are aware of their own potential deficiencies through the action of hiring Ecorsi to help them select Pace. They just missed.

And now the trick is trying to figure out if Pace is improving and becoming good, and also has Pace been better than he's looked but fell victim to a couple of his very large early mistakes (Nagy, Trubisky, and a couple unfortunate draft results). I personally don't think it is that straight-forward on Pace. Even if the results and performance of his individual picks and moves are evaluated in detail, we really don't know how all that would have worked out if it was all the exact same... but the hire was someone like Arians or Kingsbury or LeFleur instead of Nagy. How much "say" did Pace have to end up giving Nagy because Nagy is such a bullshitter that he convinced everyone that "if he only had the players he wanted" they'd be good? It might make Pace look weak to do that... but with the possibility he wouldn't have another at-bat it makes total sense to enable Nagy and hope for the best. Such is the consequence of having even the impression of lame ducks in key roles.

[crueltyabc]

Shoutout to @TheCoolerKing for that write-up. I'd like to add a little color having lived in NOLA and DC...

The Saints are a little bit closer to the Pats because Payton has so much influence on the personnel decisions. Loomis is almost like a CFO and they have a young hotshot cap guy who mostly lives in the shadows but is regarded as innovative for his creation of crazy contracts like the Taysom Hill contract and the liberal use of void years that Pace has tried to ape.

https://theathletic.com/2682172/2021/07 ... -cap-hell/
Honestly it's not a bad idea to bring this guy in as GM to try and manage the nonsense that Pace put on the books

The WFT is unique because Dan Snyder is HATED and blamed for ruining a beloved franchise. DC is a football town and they would love to support their team if they Snyder didn't make it so hard. He constantly mettles in football decisions, he created a toxic culture that embarrassed the fans, and he built his stadium out in the middle of nowhere because he wanted to create a destination that supports his ownership of the Six Flags theme park in Landover Maryland. The drive up there is a series of two and four lane roads with speed traps nothing else and it takes hours and hours on game day. There's basically no way George McCaskey could fuck up this bad. He would have to build a stadium in a big cornfield 2 hours from Chicago and bring back the Honey Bears just so he could molest them. The current WFT model would work fine for any team that doesn't have a piece of trash criminal at the top.

[The Cooler King]

Shoutout to @TheCoolerKing for that write-up. I'd like to add a little color having lived in NOLA and DC...

The Saints are a little bit closer to the Pats because Payton has so much influence on the personnel decisions. Loomis is almost like a CFO and they have a young hotshot cap guy who mostly lives in the shadows but is regarded as innovative for his creation of crazy contracts like the Taysom Hill contract and the liberal use of void years that Pace has tried to ape.

https://theathletic.com/2682172/2021/07 ... -cap-hell/
Honestly it's not a bad idea to bring this guy in as GM to try and manage the nonsense that Pace put on the books

The WFT is unique because Dan Snyder is HATED and blamed for ruining a beloved franchise. DC is a football town and they would love to support their team if they Snyder didn't make it so hard. He constantly mettles in football decisions, he created a toxic culture that embarrassed the fans, and he built his stadium out in the middle of nowhere because he wanted to create a destination that supports his ownership of the Six Flags theme park in Landover Maryland. The drive up there is a series of two and four lane roads with speed traps nothing else and it takes hours and hours on game day. There's basically no way George McCaskey could fuck up this bad. He would have to build a stadium in a big cornfield 2 hours from Chicago and bring back the Honey Bears just so he could molest them. The current WFT model would work fine for any team that doesn't have a piece of trash criminal at the top.

Thanks for the insight. I've spent a lot of time trying to research the FO structures, but the most time consuming part is the little nuances that only come out by reading the local beat report on teams, to understand where titles and responsibilities actually align.

I disagree about any cap mess btw. While Pace was certainly not making a concerted effort to maximize cap space or cap flexibility its basically middle of the road like. Would top 5 space be great, sure. But I doubt any new GM would come in thinking it was anything other than a normal factual piece of info to work through. If they did think that the cap was a mess they're personally way too conservative for my liking.

I'd be down with a Saints type function with a well respecred HC with lots of say and a more high level leader of Football Ops like Loomis. That might be my first preference for structure actually.

[crueltyabc]

As I recall from other threads, we actually agree on cap management issues so don't misunderstand my use of "nonsense". I have some contempt for the way the cap is designed and the fact that teams like NO and PHI have continuously found loopholes and ways to game it is just a silly "game within the game". Void years and weird bonuses and manipulating the compensatory draft pick equation and using analytics and nutrition etc etc are all things a modern team should be doing even if the fanbase loves snow and running backs and Polish-surnamed off-ball linebackers and sausage. I don't think Pace has done a terribly good job of using cap tricks that NO and PHI cap guys pioneered, but I do think they should be used. I also think that when they choose a GM it has to be someone who is familiar with these tools, or it's going to be a mess.

[The Cooler King]

As I recall from other threads, we actually agree on cap management issues so don't misunderstand my use of "nonsense". I have some contempt for the way the cap is designed and the fact that teams like NO and PHI have continuously found loopholes and ways to game it is just a silly "game within the game". Void years and weird bonuses and manipulating the compensatory draft pick equation and using analytics and nutrition etc etc are all things a modern team should be doing even if the fanbase loves snow and running backs and Polish-surnamed off-ball linebackers and sausage. I don't think Pace has done a terribly good job of using cap tricks that NO and PHI cap guys pioneered, but I do think they should be used. I also think that when they choose a GM it has to be someone who is familiar with these tools, or it's going to be a mess.

Yea gotcha.

Frankly I'm glad he hasn't been as agressive as those teams. Unless you've paid out a top 5 QB contract there's no good reason to be that deep in the cap games.

You got these bloggers just admonished at the ~$30M in dead cap for example, but I feel like these people are missing the forest for the trees.

A lot of people I think really just struggle with sunk cost logic and are too tied with comparisons to something like a salary cap to a family budget.

[Grizzled]

Ted will be in the Bears organization until he decides to retire, he passes away, or the team is sold. His talents should be employed on the construction of the new stadium, nothing to do with the actual running of the team.

[The Marshall Plan]

I don't have direct knowledge of interworkings of teams (maybe dplank can chime in at some point as he's done some work with teams) .

But based on publically available web info:

There's two broad archetypes and a few exceptions.

1. Active owner or ownership family who serves primary business role, typically with a owner who carries a Pres or CEO title.

2. Less active owner who hires a non-owner executive as CEO/Pres to carry out most business functions on behalf of owners.

Now I'm pretty sure within those groups there's still a variance in exact ownership involvement that a title can't show, but the titles are pretty consistent at least.

Among the first group you have two who in addition to business functions, the owner runs football ops directly (Dallas, Cincinnati).

Among the other 30 teams who hire a GM (or occassionally HC) to head football operations, most would not qualify as any sort of football people.

Possible exceptions:
1. Washington has a former player as President. He does have an MBA, was a player union rep, and a brief managemenr consulting career.
WFT's Pres before him was a former GM. That former guy (Allen) did hire a GM, but undermined and fired him quickly. So I think it was more like he was still GM. So WFT has pretty consistently had a football Pres, but their org/power structure isn't clear and I think Snyder is a big time meddler. He hired their coach (Rivera) before their current Pres or GM.
2. Atlanta's CEO is a former GM. He is the son of a NFL coach, but his primary background is law. He had a law career before NFL and probably fits more of an old school GM role that often straddled business/football equally. Things have become much more specialized in the past 20-30 years. When he was TBs GM he was part of negotiating a stadium deal. What GM still does that sort of thing? Maybe only one other.
3. Green Bays president is a former NFL player. But he built a long career as a college athletic director preceeding becoming a NFL exec.
4. In Denver, Elway is now President, but I know many view it as a semi-retirement and I suspect that another driver was the death of their owner which kind of pushed down responsibilities as they sort thru the estate. And while Elway is definitely a football guy he actually does have business holdings/history that are somewhat significant. So he arguably has solid biz credentials in addition to football ones.

That's really it for President type roles who qualify as 'football guy' backgrounds.

Of the rest, President/CEOs are
1. Owners
2. People who worked their way up through a NFL franchise, typically by way of finance or legal, occassionally marketing. Not thru the personnel dept except as noted above.
3. Executives poached from other sports (typically baseball)

Lastly, who are GMs?
2 owners as de facto GMs (DAL, CIN)
2 coaches as de facto GM (NE, SEA)
2 GMs from non scouting backgrounds (NO, PHI)
Then the other 26 GMs who primarily come from a scouting background, typically coming through a draft or player personnel role before becoming GM. Of these 26, there are a handful where the Head coach does potentially push the role closer towards the NE/SEA model where the coach carries more org power but probably carries less FO duties directly (KC, WFT, LV before Gruden was fired).

Who those GMs report to may vary a little too, but whether it's an owner directly or a Pres, it's still not a football person. NFL has really coalesced behind a pretty common definition of GM due to anti-tampering and Rooney rule policies.

Saints are probably the last franchise with an old school GM. Loomis is highly involved with business aspects which is why he also has a role with the Pelicans and other businesses of the owner (especially since Tom Benson died and his wife inherited his businesses). Came up thru finance side with Seahawks originally.

So really how the Bears have structured themselves since naming Phillips Pres and hiring Angelo has been standard operating procedure from an org structure. If they hired a primary football president I guess they would most similarly resemble Washington. Up to you if you feel that's good or not. One thing to note, WFT recently made the naughty list from Goodeel for teams not filling their stadium as well... For whatever it's worth I'm not sure they are a model franchise on the field or on the books to follow.

Yeah - totally agree that the Bears aren't incompetent or unconventional when it comes to establishing the structure. They've just missed. And as we've discussed before, they clearly TRIED to get it right. And they transparently admitted they are aware of their own potential deficiencies through the action of hiring Ecorsi to help them select Pace. They just missed.

And now the trick is trying to figure out if Pace is improving and becoming good, and also has Pace been better than he's looked but fell victim to a couple of his very large early mistakes (Nagy, Trubisky, and a couple unfortunate draft results). I personally don't think it is that straight-forward on Pace. Even if the results and performance of his individual picks and moves are evaluated in detail, we really don't know how all that would have worked out if it was all the exact same... but the hire was someone like Arians or Kingsbury or LeFleur instead of Nagy. How much "say" did Pace have to end up giving Nagy because Nagy is such a bullshitter that he convinced everyone that "if he only had the players he wanted" they'd be good? It might make Pace look weak to do that... but with the possibility he wouldn't have another at-bat it makes total sense to enable Nagy and hope for the best. Such is the consequence of having even the impression of lame ducks in key roles.

The Bears have missed for the following reasons:

1) I think they live in mortal fear of strongman type head coaches and front office personnel. This is a family business and not owned necessarily by people with a dedication to winning. Or if they are dedicated to winning they really have a funny way of showing it. I don't think they want anybody outshining the family or straight up telling George and Virginia that they're wrong about something. There's no pride that comes from the McCaskey's. They don't do anything to force or nurture that culture. Yes they do spend money on players, but they're so damn profitable so what.

So given that, the top tier candidates are immediately off the table.

Let's have a fantasy scenario for the hell of it:

Bill Belichick gets fired tomorrow for whatever reason. Do you honestly see the Bears picking up the phone and calling him? Or would somebody of that caliber scare the shit out of them because Belichick's answer to every argument would be something like, "Fuck you. I have half a dozen Super Bowl rings. What the hell do you know?"

2) They have made themselves laughing stocks in the interview process. See Dave McGinnis and Bruce Arians.

3) Their pattern of hiring. i.e. Milquetoast, soft spoken, coordinators for their first HC job says to me that I'm 100% right. I think they hired John Fox because Ernie Acorsi said so. That's the one time they broke the pattern. When a friend gave them advice. Otherwise they hire a limp noodle who's just happy to have a job. This is no different than a boss at work who only hires whites or women. There's a pattern here.

4) There is also this organizational identity with having the ZOMG BEARS DEFENSE. The idea of having a top tier defense is nice. It's pretty hard to win when the defense is shit. The problem is that I think they run the team like it's the 1950s and they're trying to field a team with Dick Butkus, Dan Hampton and Steve McMichael all the time. They've had blinders on for the past 20 years as the league has evolved, including rule changes that have a serious material impact on the outcome of games, and just keep trying to put a square peg into a round hole with this.

5) Why now is QB so God damn important? The QB situation has been abysmal for decades. Cutler had some nice years, but they were squandered. Other than that it's been a disaster. Why do they give a fuck about QB now all of a suddent? It didn't matter for the past 50 years. Why now? Did a light bulb turn on? I doubt it after having observed these people for 35 years.

Now regarding Pace....

Pace has 1 HC hire under his belt. Pace's body of work, especially in the first round of the draft, is not good. He's had some severe misses. Mitch being the big one. Nagy is a busted hire.

So should a GM, brand new to the position, be fired for missing out on Watson and Mahomes, several other first rounders, and 1 bad HC hire?

I personally want a fresh start. The Bears should fire Pace and obviously that dunce Nagy.

But being objective about it, I can see an argument for keeping Pace.

[dplank]

Good points all around. One more thing to consider: I don’t want a coach that’s also a coordinator anymore. If you get it wrong it just kills you. But if you have a Toub or something, he can swap out OCs easy peasy to better align scheme and talent. It’s what Harbaugh does in Baltimore and I really like the flexibility it gives the HC and the stability you get for your franchise.

[The Marshall Plan]

Good points all around. One more thing to consider: I don’t want a coach that’s also a coordinator anymore. If you get it wrong it just kills you. But if you have a Toub or something, he can swap out OCs easy peasy to better align scheme and talent. It’s what Harbaugh does in Baltimore and I really like the flexibility it gives the HC and the stability you get for your franchise.

Agreed.

I'm so tired of hiring a coordinator then having a bias on that side of the ball to match their preference only to then have the other half of the team suck balls.

The HC needs to be a LEADER that's good at hiring people around him to run their area of knowledge.