Chicago Bears fire HC Matt Nagy & GM Ryan Pace

[Mr.Irrelevant]

If the bears had fired Nagy last year, how do the coaching candidates from last year compare to the candidates from this year? Would pace still be around? Do you think the brass told him he had to stick with nagy? I imagine he wanted to fire nagy last year just to save his job but got over ruled. It seems like Flores is in the lead for coach. Who would of have been in the lead last year? And how do they stack up compared to this year's crop?

Rumor has is that Harbaugh called the bears last year asking if there would be an opening. I don't know who he talked to, but I can see Pace having survived if he had a new (and better) collaborator.

[The Marshall Plan]

If the bears had fired Nagy last year, how do the coaching candidates from last year compare to the candidates from this year? Would pace still be around? Do you think the brass told him he had to stick with nagy? I imagine he wanted to fire nagy last year just to save his job but got over ruled. It seems like Flores is in the lead for coach. Who would of have been in the lead last year? And how do they stack up compared to this year's crop?

Rumor has is that Harbaugh called the bears last year asking if there would be an opening. I don't know who he talked to, but I can see Pace having survived if he had a new (and better) collaborator.

After hiring that coach from ND a couple days ago, I don't think Harbaugh is going anywhere. That would be a massive dick move to hire somebody and then bolt like that.

[docc]

So yoir're saying there is a good chance then

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Rumor has is that Harbaugh called the bears last year asking if there would be an opening. I don't know who he talked to, but I can see Pace having survived if he had a new (and better) collaborator.

After hiring that coach from ND a couple days ago, I don't think Harbaugh is going anywhere. That would be a massive dick move to hire somebody and then bolt like that.

Not sure why that disqualifies Harbaugh. I think that the book on him is that he IS a dick, but gets really good results from his players.

[HurricaneBear]

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/ch ... ky-divide/
https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/ ... ve-months/

God I can't believe I supported Nagy for so many years. The more the come out the worse he looks. Always thought well at least hes a nice guy, but if ones to believe those articles hes kind of a dick.

[wab]

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/ch ... ky-divide/
https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/ ... ve-months/

God I can't believe I supported Nagy for so many years. The more the come out the worse he looks. Always thought well at least hes a nice guy, but if ones to believe those articles hes kind of a dick.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle, but yeah... based on what has been reported recently, I'm embarrassed to have been in his corner at all.

[UOK]

Nagy clearly was in over his head and wasn't ready to run the show. I think in a few years he'll get another bite at the apple in the NFL and do an OK job. NCAA ranks may be another good spot for him. Could be a hell of a college coach.

[HurricaneBear]

I guess I just never would have expected him, if the articles are to be believed, to treat Mitch like that. Mitch was obviously trying his best and failing. It's not like Mitch didnt care or didnt try his best. It was always assumed he needed to be developed when he was drafted. Nagy was hired in part TO develop Trubisky. And for Nagy to no show him for a meeting...I just don't even know what to say. The people who called for Nagy's head early on were so so right.

[Burl]

I guess I just never would have expected him, if the articles are to be believed, to treat Mitch like that. Mitch was obviously trying his best and failing. It's not like Mitch didnt care or didnt try his best. It was always assumed he needed to be developed when he was drafted. Nagy was hired in part TO develop Trubisky. And for Nagy to no show him for a meeting...I just don't even know what to say. The people who called for Nagy's head early on were so so right.

I feel the same. I figured Nagy just sucked, not that he was actually a POS. But that's the way it sounds.

[TheWorldBreaker]

I guess I just never would have expected him, if the articles are to be believed, to treat Mitch like that. Mitch was obviously trying his best and failing. It's not like Mitch didnt care or didnt try his best. It was always assumed he needed to be developed when he was drafted. Nagy was hired in part TO develop Trubisky. And for Nagy to no show him for a meeting...I just don't even know what to say. The people who called for Nagy's head early on were so so right.

The only people that would actually know what happened with that meeting are Nagy and Trubisky. Trubisky has a vested interest in making Nagy look as bad as possible (without his name on it) because if other teams are convinced it was all Nagy, he’ll be able to get another huge pay day.

Nagy was a failure at head coach because he knew the plays in Reid’s offense but didn’t know how to run it or adjust it to the talent on his roster.

That’s enough for me, and this anonymously sourced character assassination stuff after he’s gone is gross.

[Burl]

I guess I just never would have expected him, if the articles are to be believed, to treat Mitch like that. Mitch was obviously trying his best and failing. It's not like Mitch didnt care or didnt try his best. It was always assumed he needed to be developed when he was drafted. Nagy was hired in part TO develop Trubisky. And for Nagy to no show him for a meeting...I just don't even know what to say. The people who called for Nagy's head early on were so so right.

The only people that would actually know what happened with that meeting are Nagy and Trubisky. Trubisky has a vested interest in making Nagy look as bad as possible (without his name on it) because if other teams are convinced it was all Nagy, he’ll be able to get another huge pay day.

Nagy was a failure at head coach because he knew the plays in Reid’s offense but didn’t know how to run it or adjust it to the talent on his roster.

That’s enough for me, and this anonymously sourced character assassination stuff after he’s gone is gross.

This stuff didn't come from some random Twitter user though.
It came from Adam Jahns and Kevin Fishbain. They're not the type to just make stuff up or publish hearsay without checking their sources, even if they can't or promised not to publish the names.

These are the only times you ever get the real dirt man.

[TheWorldBreaker]

The only people that would actually know what happened with that meeting are Nagy and Trubisky. Trubisky has a vested interest in making Nagy look as bad as possible (without his name on it) because if other teams are convinced it was all Nagy, he’ll be able to get another huge pay day.

Nagy was a failure at head coach because he knew the plays in Reid’s offense but didn’t know how to run it or adjust it to the talent on his roster.

That’s enough for me, and this anonymously sourced character assassination stuff after he’s gone is gross.

This stuff didn't come from some random Twitter user though.
It came from Adam Jahns and Kevin Fishbain. They're not the type to just make stuff up or publish hearsay without checking their sources, even if they can't or promised not to publish the names.

These are the only times you ever get the real dirt man.

I’m not suggesting they made it up, I’m suggesting Mitch Trubisky or a Trubisky surrogate told them the story in a manner that paints him in a sympathetic light and paints Nagy as negatively as possible.

[Artbest]

FWIW, I tend to think the story about Nagy and Mitch is largely true...but that there likely is another "side of the story" that we're not hearing about - perhaps the no-show meeting was a misunderstanding or miscommunication. That said, and this is a guess on my part, I THINK Nagy was done with Mitch after the 2019 game against the Chargers. Nagy had laid an epic egg against the Saints after the bye-week - good or bad coaching, until garbage time, Trubisky was just awful. He was so bad and so lost that, at one point, Mitch threw the ball away on 4th and 2.

The next week against the Chargers, Mitch was better - but struggled to put the ball in the end zone. He had a chance to end the game with a dagger throw to a wide open Taylor Gabriel downfield. The throw was badly overthrown. The next play? Mitch fumbles the ball away. I don't know that Mitch ever recovered from that in Nagy's eyes.

Unfortunately for Nagy, he never established a scintilla of credibility as a play caller, regardless of who the QB was

[HisRoyalSweetness]

That's two odd games to focus in on Artbest.

Trubisky injured his shoulder early on against Minnesota and missed the Oakland game in London. That New Orleans game was his first back and Nagy in his genius had him throw him throw 54 times and only attempted 7 running plays even though he claimed he wasn't an idiot and knew they needed to run more.

The Chargers game the following week was the one where with 1:33 left Trubisky led the team down the field and with an 11 yard scramble put them in field goal range. With a first down and 43 seconds still on the clock instead of trying to gain any extra yards and without even checking where Pineiro wanted the ball placed he had Trubisky take a knee. Pineiro proceeded to miss a 41 yard field goal.

Both were horrendous games for the head coach, so for him to be 'done' with his QB after those two would be pathetic in the extreme.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

That's two odd games to focus in on Artbest.

Trubisky injured his shoulder early on against Minnesota and missed the Oakland game in London. That New Orleans game was his first back and Nagy in his genius had him throw him throw 54 times and only attempted 7 running plays even though he claimed he wasn't an idiot and knew they needed to run more.

The Chargers game the following week was the one where with 1:33 left Trubisky led the team down the field and with an 11 yard scramble put them in field goal range. With a first down and 43 seconds still on the clock instead of trying to gain any extra yards and without even checking where Pineiro wanted the ball placed he had Trubisky take a knee. Pineiro proceeded to miss a 41 yard field goal.

Both were horrendous games for the head coach, so for him to be 'done' with his QB after those two would be pathetic in the extreme.

When I read about Nagy being Nagy like this it makes me laugh. Previously it made me feel confused and frustrated but now I can smile

[G08]

That's two odd games to focus in on Artbest.

Trubisky injured his shoulder early on against Minnesota and missed the Oakland game in London. That New Orleans game was his first back and Nagy in his genius had him throw him throw 54 times and only attempted 7 running plays even though he claimed he wasn't an idiot and knew they needed to run more.

The Chargers game the following week was the one where with 1:33 left Trubisky led the team down the field and with an 11 yard scramble put them in field goal range. With a first down and 43 seconds still on the clock instead of trying to gain any extra yards and without even checking where Pineiro wanted the ball placed he had Trubisky take a knee. Pineiro proceeded to miss a 41 yard field goal.

Both were horrendous games for the head coach, so for him to be 'done' with his QB after those two would be pathetic in the extreme.

I vividly remember Dave Ragone shaking his head belligerently when Nagy was describing that he wanted to take a knee and kick. So stupid.

[dplank]

That's two odd games to focus in on Artbest.

Trubisky injured his shoulder early on against Minnesota and missed the Oakland game in London. That New Orleans game was his first back and Nagy in his genius had him throw him throw 54 times and only attempted 7 running plays even though he claimed he wasn't an idiot and knew they needed to run more.

The Chargers game the following week was the one where with 1:33 left Trubisky led the team down the field and with an 11 yard scramble put them in field goal range. With a first down and 43 seconds still on the clock instead of trying to gain any extra yards and without even checking where Pineiro wanted the ball placed he had Trubisky take a knee. Pineiro proceeded to miss a 41 yard field goal.

Both were horrendous games for the head coach, so for him to be 'done' with his QB after those two would be pathetic in the extreme.

Trubisky lost us that Chargers game. We should have blown them out, we dominated the LOS on both sides. The run game was on fire. All Mitch had to do was not blow it, it was a layup game for him, but he did in fact blow it in the 4th quarter and in spectacular fashion. Sure he drove us down for a last second FG that was missed, but that was after he blew the lead to begin with.

That game was the moment I gave up on Mitch.

[TheWorldBreaker]

That's two odd games to focus in on Artbest.

Trubisky injured his shoulder early on against Minnesota and missed the Oakland game in London. That New Orleans game was his first back and Nagy in his genius had him throw him throw 54 times and only attempted 7 running plays even though he claimed he wasn't an idiot and knew they needed to run more.

The Chargers game the following week was the one where with 1:33 left Trubisky led the team down the field and with an 11 yard scramble put them in field goal range. With a first down and 43 seconds still on the clock instead of trying to gain any extra yards and without even checking where Pineiro wanted the ball placed he had Trubisky take a knee. Pineiro proceeded to miss a 41 yard field goal.

Both were horrendous games for the head coach, so for him to be 'done' with his QB after those two would be pathetic in the extreme.

To be fair, in the Chargers game Trubisky let San Diego back in the game and gave them the lead with his turnovers, including a fumble in the pocket when no one had touched him. I can understand being leery of letting him handle the ball in a critical situation there considering how careless he’d been earlier. Maybe he should have run the wildcat that he fell in love with this season.

And in the Saints game, I remember they tried to run the option and Trubisky misread the DE and got lit up (something that happened in the Chargers game too) by that DE.

Those weren’t good game plans or decisions but when you have a QB that can’t execute simple plays high school kids across the country execute every fall there’s only so much you can do.

What I think is unforgivable and what may have been the final straw in the Nagy era is the Tampa Bay game. Because they had a third string guy that had never really played (and who sucked) forced into action because of Covid protocols and immediately left him on an island.

And he already should have known that was a bad idea because of what happened in the Cleveland game.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Trubisky lost us that Chargers game. We should have blown them out, we dominated the LOS on both sides. The run game was on fire. All Mitch had to do was not blow it, it was a layup game for him, but he did in fact blow it in the 4th quarter and in spectacular fashion. Sure he drove us down for a last second FG that was missed, but that was after he blew the lead to begin with.

That game was the moment I gave up on Mitch.

To be fair, in the Chargers game Trubisky let San Diego back in the game and gave them the lead with his turnovers, including a fumble in the pocket when no one had touched him. I can understand being leery of letting him handle the ball in a critical situation there considering how careless he’d been earlier. Maybe he should have run the wildcat that he fell in love with this season.

It was 16 - 10 when Trubisky threw the bad pick and the Chargers failed to score on the back of it. It was a terrible play from him but it didn't blow the game. The Bears should have been ahead by more but as usual they couldn't convert from inside the 10 yard line. My 'favourite' Nagy call was when it was 3rd and goal from the 9 yard line and they handed the ball off to Cohen rather than, you know, throw the ball into the end zone. Cohen was run out of bounds after gaining a couple of yards.

The fumble was the turnover that cost the Bears, but it's not true to say no-one touched Trubisky. The pocket collapsed when Leno was driven straight back into him. That contact knocked him stumbling back and around just as Massie was pushing his guy past the drop back point. It was difficult to see with the camera angles, but it looked as if as Massie's elbow or hip connected with Trubisky or the ball knocking it loose. It looked unfortunate a lot more than careless.

What really got me about the last second field goal though was that Pineiro had doinked a 33 yard FG attempt earlier in the game. You've seen your kicker miss from 33 yards and think it's a great idea to settle for a 41 yard attempt to win? It summed up Nagy's incompetent game management. Trubisky wasn't perfect and had two big turnovers, but ultimately he wasn't the reason they lost that one. That's why I thought Artbest's suggestion that the Saints game followed by this one being the last straw for Nagy regarding Trubisky to be odd.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. Both are gone. Hopefully the next HC:

• Will create a great working relationship with Fields

• Will succeed in developing Fields into a top QB

• Will install an effective offense

• Will have effective red zone plays

• Won't abandon the run

• Won't continually make stupid in game decisions

In short, hopefully the next HC will be everything we hoped Nagy would be but wasn't.

[IE]

I gave up on Mitch during the Saints game that year. I laughed as he made a few stats in garbage time - "garbage time stats and garbage bum-beatings for a garbage QB". I admit I was rough on him because IMO his performances where rough - brutal and truly embarrassing, and he was the small-caps goat. But over the past 2 seasons Nagy has proved through action and "reading between the lines" of player comments to be completely incompetent and unwilling to change. I now DO attribute a lot of Mitch's struggles to Nagy simply demanding he succeed at Nagy's horrible un-working offense - much like we saw happen Foles, JF1 and Dalton. Props to Foles for having some moxy and hot streaks to overcome that a few times.

My updated take on Mitch is he probably CAN be a decent QB in the right system. The caveat is how he reacted emotionally to adversity... I still don't think he has a killer instinct and gets narrowed vision under stress. There's a contrast there with JF1's coolness as a rook. I think Mitch will be a good long-term backup in the NFL and play & win some games with lower pressure. Maybe he will grow calmer and more confident when he gets older, like the Harbaugh career comparisons I've been using for a few years now. I wouldn't be surprised based on how this evolved if he doesn't get another chance to compete to start & end up starting games for somebody.

But regardless - I apologize to Mitch for putting so much blame on him when most of it really resided with Nagy.

[The Marshall Plan]

Just to put some things into perspective.

I don’t believe either namesake of this thread, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb, have been called in for interviews anywhere.

Just like how Mitch took a backup deal for one year when Sam Darnold was traded for multiple picks.

Everybody knows Mitch sucks. Except for Pace.

Everybody knows Pace is a moron. Except for George who hired him.

Everybody knows Nagy is a moron. Except for George who hired him.

Remember that kids because the same inbred goober is picking the next regime.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Got a feeling Harbaugh may still be in the mix

[dplank]

Trubisky lost us that Chargers game. We should have blown them out, we dominated the LOS on both sides. The run game was on fire. All Mitch had to do was not blow it, it was a layup game for him, but he did in fact blow it in the 4th quarter and in spectacular fashion. Sure he drove us down for a last second FG that was missed, but that was after he blew the lead to begin with.

That game was the moment I gave up on Mitch.

To be fair, in the Chargers game Trubisky let San Diego back in the game and gave them the lead with his turnovers, including a fumble in the pocket when no one had touched him. I can understand being leery of letting him handle the ball in a critical situation there considering how careless he’d been earlier. Maybe he should have run the wildcat that he fell in love with this season.

It was 16 - 10 when Trubisky threw the bad pick and the Chargers failed to score on the back of it. It was a terrible play from him but it didn't blow the game. The Bears should have been ahead by more but as usual they couldn't convert from inside the 10 yard line. My 'favourite' Nagy call was when it was 3rd and goal from the 9 yard line and they handed the ball off to Cohen rather than, you know, throw the ball into the end zone. Cohen was run out of bounds after gaining a couple of yards.

The fumble was the turnover that cost the Bears, but it's not true to say no-one touched Trubisky. The pocket collapsed when Leno was driven straight back into him. That contact knocked him stumbling back and around just as Massie was pushing his guy past the drop back point. It was difficult to see with the camera angles, but it looked as if as Massie's elbow or hip connected with Trubisky or the ball knocking it loose. It looked unfortunate a lot more than careless.

What really got me about the last second field goal though was that Pineiro had doinked a 33 yard FG attempt earlier in the game. You've seen your kicker miss from 33 yards and think it's a great idea to settle for a 41 yard attempt to win? It summed up Nagy's incompetent game management. Trubisky wasn't perfect and had two big turnovers, but ultimately he wasn't the reason they lost that one. That's why I thought Artbest's suggestion that the Saints game followed by this one being the last straw for Nagy regarding Trubisky to be odd.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. Both are gone. Hopefully the next HC:

• Will create a great working relationship with Fields

• Will succeed in developing Fields into a top QB

• Will install an effective offense

• Will have effective red zone plays

• Won't abandon the run

• Won't continually make stupid in game decisions

In short, hopefully the next HC will be everything we hoped Nagy would be but wasn't.

You missed the wide open - and I mean WIDE OPEN - Gabriel right down the middle of the field for an easy TD, that Mitch overthrew by like 10 yards. Those were 3 consecutive plays in that game. The missed TD, the INT, and the weak ass fumble deep in our own territory which gave them a quick TD - it took a win and turned it into a loss in 3 plays. He had little to do with us being ahead before that point, we ran the ball great which gave lots of easy open throws for Mitch, and our defense was playing GREAT that day. Mitch didn't have to do squat but not screw it up. It was all lined up for a win, then Mitch struck with 3 plays that changed everything.

It's all water under the bridge, and I have since changed my stance on Mitch as I recognize that no QB has succeeded under McNagy and he was not put in a good position to be successful here. So this isn't axe grinding AT ALL, I've already changed my mind on Mitch. But, just to keep it 100, Mitch absolutely blew that game. And to Art's theory, all I can say is as a rabid Bears fan who had bought in that Mitch was going to explode in Year 2 of Nagy's offense - that was the game that turned me. So I have no problem theorizing that was the same moment that Nagy gave up on him - it was a bungling of the highest order.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

It was 16 - 10 when Trubisky threw the bad pick and the Chargers failed to score on the back of it. It was a terrible play from him but it didn't blow the game. The Bears should have been ahead by more but as usual they couldn't convert from inside the 10 yard line. My 'favourite' Nagy call was when it was 3rd and goal from the 9 yard line and they handed the ball off to Cohen rather than, you know, throw the ball into the end zone. Cohen was run out of bounds after gaining a couple of yards.

The fumble was the turnover that cost the Bears, but it's not true to say no-one touched Trubisky. The pocket collapsed when Leno was driven straight back into him. That contact knocked him stumbling back and around just as Massie was pushing his guy past the drop back point. It was difficult to see with the camera angles, but it looked as if as Massie's elbow or hip connected with Trubisky or the ball knocking it loose. It looked unfortunate a lot more than careless.

What really got me about the last second field goal though was that Pineiro had doinked a 33 yard FG attempt earlier in the game. You've seen your kicker miss from 33 yards and think it's a great idea to settle for a 41 yard attempt to win? It summed up Nagy's incompetent game management. Trubisky wasn't perfect and had two big turnovers, but ultimately he wasn't the reason they lost that one. That's why I thought Artbest's suggestion that the Saints game followed by this one being the last straw for Nagy regarding Trubisky to be odd.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. Both are gone. Hopefully the next HC:

• Will create a great working relationship with Fields

• Will succeed in developing Fields into a top QB

• Will install an effective offense

• Will have effective red zone plays

• Won't abandon the run

• Won't continually make stupid in game decisions

In short, hopefully the next HC will be everything we hoped Nagy would be but wasn't.

You missed the wide open - and I mean WIDE OPEN - Gabriel right down the middle of the field for an easy TD, that Mitch overthrew by like 10 yards. Those were 3 consecutive plays in that game. The missed TD, the INT, and the weak ass fumble deep in our own territory which gave them a quick TD - it took a win and turned it into a loss in 3 plays. He had little to do with us being ahead before that point, we ran the ball great which gave lots of easy open throws for Mitch, and our defense was playing GREAT that day. Mitch didn't have to do squat but not screw it up. It was all lined up for a win, then Mitch struck with 3 plays that changed everything.

It's all water under the bridge, and I have since changed my stance on Mitch as I recognize that no QB has succeeded under McNagy and he was not put in a good position to be successful here. So this isn't axe grinding AT ALL, I've already changed my mind on Mitch. But, just to keep it 100, Mitch absolutely blew that game. And to Art's theory, all I can say is as a rabid Bears fan who had bought in that Mitch was going to explode in Year 2 of Nagy's offense - that was the game that turned me. So I have no problem theorizing that was the same moment that Nagy gave up on him - it was a bungling of the highest order.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the degree of Trubisky's responsibility for that defeat. So Trubisky missed a deep shot with the receiver open; it happens every week in the NFL even to the best QBs. (Oh and 'like 10 yards' is a gross exaggeration - the ball hit the ground 2 yards in front of 5'7 Gabriel.) He also completed 'deep middle' passes for 24 yards, 31 yards and 16 yards, one 'deep right' for 31 yards and, on the final drive, one 'deep left' for 22 yards. Oh, and just to 'keep it 100' he converted five 3rd downs and a 4th down passing, so you know, he played his part that day. He didn't have a particularly great day, but you pick out three plays in a whole game and place the blame for the loss on him whereas I saw a QB who overcame his mistakes and put his team in a position to win when it mattered. Pineiro missing 33 and 41 yard FGs had a bigger impact than Trubisky's mistakes, as did Nagy's terrible red zone offense and decision-making. It's also worth remembering that when Trubisky dislocated his left shoulder a few weeks earlier he tore his labrum and played the rest of the year wearing a harness until he could get surgery in the offseason.

For context, everyone was getting terribly excited by Justin Field's performance against Pittsburgh when he completed only 58.6% of his passes and threw an interception that led to a Steelers TD whilst benefitting from an effective run game (136 yards at 5.2ypc). Why? Because he led his team to a go ahead score when it mattered. They still lost because the defense let them down, but how is that different to a QB driving his team in position to win but his kicker then missing what should be a straightforward 41 yard field goal to win?

But as we both have said, it's all water under the bridge.

I must admit, watching both Fields and Dalton struggle this year, I was rather hoping that Trubisky might see some action in Buffalo. I was intrigued to see how he might get on with a different team, coach and playcaller, but it wasn't to be. I'm just so looking forward to seeing what Fields and the other young guys on offense can do with new coaches and a new scheme. It will be fascinating to find out how good (or not) they are without Nagy.

[dplank]

They lost the Steelers game only because of the refs IMO. Plus, bringing your team back from behind to take a late lead is quite different than having a lead late and bungling it away with multiple turnovers and missed layup touchdowns. Any boring game manager wins that Chargers game - Kyle Orton wins that game, Andy Dalton wins that game, Chase Daniel wins that game. Nick Foles wins that game. Maybe not Mike Glennon lol...All the QB had to do that game was hand the ball off, make easy open throws (which Mitch did for the most part but missed a big one that would have sealed the game), and not turn the ball over. Mitch did all those things and did all of them in rapid sequence late in the 4th quarter, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

What excited us about Pittsburgh was how dynamic Fields play was that game. He made some absolutely electric plays. But he does bear responsibility for a very poor first half that put us behind to begin with. Never claimed otherwise, evaluating a rookie QB in a lost season is a different thing than judging a 3rd year QB on a team fighting for the playoffs. At that point of the season for Fields, I was just excited to see the kid play well, regardless of outcome. Mitch's game should've just been a snoozefest, walk away win - but he chunked it.

Context means everything here. At any rate, you pointed out to Art that you felt he was way off base pointing to that game as a possible turning point for Nagy - and it's quite a coincidence that I also point to that same game as my own personal turning point on Mitch as well. So I don't see it as being way off base at all, it makes total sense to me. It was a culmination of a lot of poor, up and down play by the kid and blowing a game that was teed up for him to be an easy win. Context.

[malk]

You missed the wide open - and I mean WIDE OPEN - Gabriel right down the middle of the field for an easy TD, that Mitch overthrew by like 10 yards. Those were 3 consecutive plays in that game. The missed TD, the INT, and the weak ass fumble deep in our own territory which gave them a quick TD - it took a win and turned it into a loss in 3 plays. He had little to do with us being ahead before that point, we ran the ball great which gave lots of easy open throws for Mitch, and our defense was playing GREAT that day. Mitch didn't have to do squat but not screw it up. It was all lined up for a win, then Mitch struck with 3 plays that changed everything.

It's all water under the bridge, and I have since changed my stance on Mitch as I recognize that no QB has succeeded under McNagy and he was not put in a good position to be successful here. So this isn't axe grinding AT ALL, I've already changed my mind on Mitch. But, just to keep it 100, Mitch absolutely blew that game. And to Art's theory, all I can say is as a rabid Bears fan who had bought in that Mitch was going to explode in Year 2 of Nagy's offense - that was the game that turned me. So I have no problem theorizing that was the same moment that Nagy gave up on him - it was a bungling of the highest order.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the degree of Trubisky's responsibility for that defeat. So Trubisky missed a deep shot with the receiver open; it happens every week in the NFL even to the best QBs. (Oh and 'like 10 yards' is a gross exaggeration - the ball hit the ground 2 yards in front of 5'7 Gabriel.) He also completed 'deep middle' passes for 24 yards, 31 yards and 16 yards, one 'deep right' for 31 yards and, on the final drive, one 'deep left' for 22 yards. Oh, and just to 'keep it 100' he converted five 3rd downs and a 4th down passing, so you know, he played his part that day. He didn't have a particularly great day, but you pick out three plays in a whole game and place the blame for the loss on him whereas I saw a QB who overcame his mistakes and put his team in a position to win when it mattered. Pineiro missing 33 and 41 yard FGs had a bigger impact than Trubisky's mistakes, as did Nagy's terrible red zone offense and decision-making. It's also worth remembering that when Trubisky dislocated his left shoulder a few weeks earlier he tore his labrum and played the rest of the year wearing a harness until he could get surgery in the offseason.

For context, everyone was getting terribly excited by Justin Field's performance against Pittsburgh when he completed only 58.6% of his passes and threw an interception that led to a Steelers TD whilst benefitting from an effective run game (136 yards at 5.2ypc). Why? Because he led his team to a go ahead score when it mattered. They still lost because the defense let them down, but how is that different to a QB driving his team in position to win but his kicker then missing what should be a straightforward 41 yard field goal to win?

But as we both have said, it's all water under the bridge.

I must admit, watching both Fields and Dalton struggle this year, I was rather hoping that Trubisky might see some action in Buffalo. I was intrigued to see how he might get on with a different team, coach and playcaller, but it wasn't to be. I'm just so looking forward to seeing what Fields and the other young guys on offense can do with new coaches and a new scheme. It will be fascinating to find out how good (or not) they are without Nagy.

This is well put HRS. Knowing what we know now about Nagy I find it pretty incredible that people are pointing to a game where he had just two turnovers as a game to give up on a 3rd year pro. I'm thinking of the drive where we started on the 4 after Fuller's interception and Nagy calls plays that result in incompletion to Patterson, incompletion to Burton, incompletion to Shaheen. Oof!

It definitely wasn't a good game for him but if he makes the TD pass to Gabriel and doesn't throw the interception it's a comfortable 68.5% completion rate game with a win and no one bats an eyelid. Fine margins in the NFL sometimes. Christ I hope the next head coach isn't so inflexible with their scheme.

[dplank]

I really am not trying to convince anyone of anything here, but I will say that Malk you really miss the point of the post. Obviously no one would give up on a player after a bad game. Hell, he didn't even have that bad a game in total, stats were ok - he just bungled the game away at the end. But that 100% misses Art's point and mine that followed it. So this note is about clarifying the point, not about trying to change your mind.

I had concerns about Mitch starting in 2018. We were winning and everyone was all on the Mitch train, but I saw a really erratic QB that was clearly being propped up by his defense. The number of disaster type games that he had were staggering, he'd be good one game then absolute trainwreck the next - often WINNING those games which caused a lot of people to look the other way. The signs were there. And yet, despite my concerns, that offseason I bought into the hype that Nagy 2.0 and Mitch Year 3 were going to light it up. But that is not, at all, what happened. Mitch continued to flounder against good teams and would occassionally flare up against the Lions to calm fears. I was on the fence as we approached the SD game, and had already started to redefine my expectations (as everyone did) to a "well, he's not gonna be Mahomes, but if he can just be decent and manage the games maybe he can still be a good QB". Then bam, San Diego game. And if you can't see that he blew that game for the team, I just don't know what to tell you. 95% of the QB's in the NFL win that football game, absolutely everything was lined up for an easy win - just don't Tin Cup it. I was shoved off the fence in a glorious 5 minute stretch of comical football. My only mistake was not giving up on Nagy at the same time - and yes, his FG move was terrible. We didn't "know what we know now about Nagy" back then when I gave up on Mitch.

The other part I think you're missing is the simple logic part. At some point, most likely after a game has been played, you will form your opinion on a player. That has to happen at some point. Midway through Year 3 of a 4 year contract is not jumping the gun for that evaluation to take hold in ones mind.

When did you give up on Mitch?

[malk]

I really am not trying to convince anyone of anything here, but I will say that Malk you really miss the point of the post. Obviously no one would give up on a player after a bad game. Hell, he didn't even have that bad a game in total, stats were ok - he just bungled the game away at the end. But that 100% misses Art's point and mine that followed it. So this note is about clarifying the point, not about trying to change your mind.

I had concerns about Mitch starting in 2018. We were winning and everyone was all on the Mitch train, but I saw a really erratic QB that was clearly being propped up by his defense. The number of disaster type games that he had were staggering, he'd be good one game then absolute trainwreck the next - often WINNING those games which caused a lot of people to look the other way. The signs were there. And yet, despite my concerns, that offseason I bought into the hype that Nagy 2.0 and Mitch Year 3 were going to light it up. But that is not, at all, what happened. Mitch continued to flounder against good teams and would occassionally flare up against the Lions to calm fears. I was on the fence as we approached the SD game, and had already started to redefine my expectations (as everyone did) to a "well, he's not gonna be Mahomes, but if he can just be decent and manage the games maybe he can still be a good QB". Then bam, San Diego game. And if you can't see that he blew that game for the team, I just don't know what to tell you. 95% of the QB's in the NFL win that football game, absolutely everything was lined up for an easy win - just don't Tin Cup it. I was shoved off the fence in a glorious 5 minute stretch of comical football. My only mistake was not giving up on Nagy at the same time - and yes, his FG move was terrible. We didn't "know what we know now about Nagy" back then when I gave up on Mitch.

The other part I think you're missing is the simple logic part. At some point, most likely after a game has been played, you will form your opinion on a player. That has to happen at some point. Midway through Year 3 of a 4 year contract is not jumping the gun for that evaluation to take hold in ones mind.

When did you give up on Mitch?

Apologies if I missed the point, I just thought it odd that that game was the last straw. Certainly not suggesting that there wasn't justification building up to it beforehand. But even in that game, the drives prior to the interception were two field goals and a touchdown. The 5th drive had a 35 yard pass completion, the 6th drive was with 2 mins left in the half, had a 3rd down completion, another 3rd down with DPI getting a 1st before fizzing out in the red zone, and the 7th drive had a 31 yard completion that set up the TD rush from Montgomery on the next play. It wasn't as if he'd dogged for the whole game.

Now sure, the interception and fumble on back to back drives were killer but it happens, especially to young QBs.

As to when I gave up on Mitch, I don't think I ever did as I wanted him to be brought back on a Team friendly deal. That said it was clear that Nagy and Pace had moved on well before his contract ended so I kind of checked out at that point. But even now I suspect he could be a serviceable starter with a decent scheme. in 2018 his TD% was 5.5% and in 2020 it was 5.4%, those are good numbers. His interception % was also too high at 2.8% and 2.7% in those years but it wouldn't be outlandish for him to settle into a good scheme and bump up the TD% to 6 and drop the ints to 1.5% and at 4:1 TD:Int you've got a good starter. If it doesn't work out and he's at around 4.5% to 2.5% that's still a solid backup QB who can do more than manage a game. Plus in 2017 and 2019 he was told to play more conservatively and had 2.1% (as a rookie) and 1.9% so you could ask him to come in as a game manager for an injured starter who brings 200 yards, 1 TD and 0/1 interceptions.

Obviously with Nagy he didn't have a hope in hell and he is where he is. Especially considering that in 2019 he has double teamed Allen Robinson, a rookie Montgomery averaging 3.7 ypc, no tight end and then a little bit of whichever Miller would show up and some occasional Gabriel before injuries got his career.

That said I don't blame anyone for giving up on him as the coach and GM clearly had as well. But if I were a GM looking for a QB I'd be tempted to sign him to a long term backup deal and give him the keys to the offence for a season. If it blows up get your QB in the draft the following year with a decent pick, if not you've either got a cheap starter or at least a solid backup.

[wab]

How in the world did this turn into yet another Mitch thread?

[Z Bear]

Because that was the nail in Pace's coffin, we just reacted on it 3 years later.