wab wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:26 am
How in the world did this turn into yet another Mitch thread?
Simple - If Nagy had succeeded in developing Trubisky as he was hired to do then neither he nor Pace would have been fired. Recent media articles have added new fuel to the whole Nagy/Trubisky dynamic.
It remains pertinent due to the fact that we're in the exact same situation now that we were in 4 years ago - looking for a new head coach to develop a highly drafted first round QB that he had no say in choosing into that ever-elusive franchise player.
That's the major factor in every discussion about the next GM and HC. If the Bears get it wrong again then the team will be mired in yet more years of mediocrity at best.
dplank wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:25 pm
I really am not trying to convince anyone of anything here, but I will say that Malk you really miss the point of the post. Obviously no one would give up on a player after a bad game. Hell, he didn't even have that bad a game in total, stats were ok - he just bungled the game away at the end. But that 100% misses Art's point and mine that followed it. So this note is about clarifying the point, not about trying to change your mind.
I had concerns about Mitch starting in 2018. We were winning and everyone was all on the Mitch train, but I saw a really erratic QB that was clearly being propped up by his defense. The number of disaster type games that he had were staggering, he'd be good one game then absolute trainwreck the next - often WINNING those games which caused a lot of people to look the other way. The signs were there. And yet, despite my concerns, that offseason I bought into the hype that Nagy 2.0 and Mitch Year 3 were going to light it up. But that is not, at all, what happened. Mitch continued to flounder against good teams and would occassionally flare up against the Lions to calm fears. I was on the fence as we approached the SD game, and had already started to redefine my expectations (as everyone did) to a "well, he's not gonna be Mahomes, but if he can just be decent and manage the games maybe he can still be a good QB". Then bam, San Diego game. And if you can't see that he blew that game for the team, I just don't know what to tell you. 95% of the QB's in the NFL win that football game, absolutely everything was lined up for an easy win - just don't Tin Cup it. I was shoved off the fence in a glorious 5 minute stretch of comical football. My only mistake was not giving up on Nagy at the same time - and yes, his FG move was terrible. We didn't "know what we know now about Nagy" back then when I gave up on Mitch.
The other part I think you're missing is the simple logic part. At some point, most likely after a game has been played, you will form your opinion on a player. That has to happen at some point. Midway through Year 3 of a 4 year contract is not jumping the gun for that evaluation to take hold in ones mind.
When did you give up on Mitch?
Apologies if I missed the point, I just thought it odd that that game was the last straw. Certainly not suggesting that there wasn't justification building up to it beforehand. But even in that game, the drives prior to the interception were two field goals and a touchdown. The 5th drive had a 35 yard pass completion, the 6th drive was with 2 mins left in the half, had a 3rd down completion, another 3rd down with DPI getting a 1st before fizzing out in the red zone, and the 7th drive had a 31 yard completion that set up the TD rush from Montgomery on the next play. It wasn't as if he'd dogged for the whole game.
Now sure, the interception and fumble on back to back drives were killer but it happens, especially to young QBs.
As to when I gave up on Mitch, I don't think I ever did as I wanted him to be brought back on a Team friendly deal. That said it was clear that Nagy and Pace had moved on well before his contract ended so I kind of checked out at that point. But even now I suspect he could be a serviceable starter with a decent scheme. in 2018 his TD% was 5.5% and in 2020 it was 5.4%, those are good numbers. His interception % was also too high at 2.8% and 2.7% in those years but it wouldn't be outlandish for him to settle into a good scheme and bump up the TD% to 6 and drop the ints to 1.5% and at 4:1 TD:Int you've got a good starter. If it doesn't work out and he's at around 4.5% to 2.5% that's still a solid backup QB who can do more than manage a game. Plus in 2017 and 2019 he was told to play more conservatively and had 2.1% (as a rookie) and 1.9% so you could ask him to come in as a game manager for an injured starter who brings 200 yards, 1 TD and 0/1 interceptions.
Obviously with Nagy he didn't have a hope in hell and he is where he is. Especially considering that in 2019 he has double teamed Allen Robinson, a rookie Montgomery averaging 3.7 ypc, no tight end and then a little bit of whichever Miller would show up and some occasional Gabriel before injuries got his career.
That said I don't blame anyone for giving up on him as the coach and GM clearly had as well. But if I were a GM looking for a QB I'd be tempted to sign him to a long term backup deal and give him the keys to the offence for a season. If it blows up get your QB in the draft the following year with a decent pick, if not you've either got a cheap starter or at least a solid backup.
Fair points. And to your point, I have realized this year how unfair I was being to Mitch in the desperate hope that he was the problem and not Nagy. As I came to the realization that Nagy was absolutely inept, I did absolutely change my tune on Mitch. While my gut says he still sucks, I am open to the possibility that he lands somewhere and plays really well - I hope he does. But anyhow, fair or unfair, was just explaining "the why" behind why that moment was a tipping point for me (sorry, couldn't resist lol). It was fairly random, but it was an example where Nagy and the team surrounding Mitch had all done their jobs well and it took an extraordinary bungling by Mitch to blow that game - and thus I was pushed off the fence and into "Mitch Sucks" territory. And, frankly, Mitch didn't do a damn thing over the next year and a half to change my thinking on him.
Btw, I should see mitch in New Orleans next year. Brees.3.0. Pace came from New Orleans and wanted a brees 2.0. Peyton may be able to mold him into 3.0. They can't afford anyone good and I don't think Winston or whats his name give alot of confidence.
otis wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:30 pm
Btw, I should see mitch in New Orleans next year. Brees.3.0. Pace came from New Orleans and wanted a brees 2.0. Peyton may be able to mold him into 3.0 ...
If anyone could straighten him out, it would be Payton.
That would be a great story.
“Never let your ego get so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego falls with it.”
wab wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:26 am
How in the world did this turn into yet another Mitch thread?
Simple - If Nagy had succeeded in developing Trubisky as he was hired to do then neither he nor Pace would have been fired. Recent media articles have added new fuel to the whole Nagy/Trubisky dynamic.
It remains pertinent due to the fact that we're in the exact same situation now that we were in 4 years ago - looking for a new head coach to develop a highly drafted first round QB that he had no say in choosing into that ever-elusive franchise player.
That's the major factor in every discussion about the next GM and HC. If the Bears get it wrong again then the team will be mired in yet more years of mediocrity at best.
yeah, all very true and all very scary as the Bears have an historical history of repeating their mistakes
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things." George Carlin
wab wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:26 am
How in the world did this turn into yet another Mitch thread?
These are great. Just go with it. LOL.
Here. Watch this....
If Ryan Pace had held onto Jay Cutler we never would've drafted Mitch in the first place.
so now we go to a Cutler thread?
ok, if Jerry Angelo had been smart enough to use his draft capital to build an actual team, Cutler never would have been a Bear as the QB position was not the only area of concern for the team so trading away multiple high picks for just a QB was stupid and an ultimate failure
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things." George Carlin
Burl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:53 pm
Cutty's only 39. He'd be a better backup than Mike Glennon.
Maybe he comes home?
Cutler is too busy terrorizing local school boards to come back to the NFL.
Totally kidding there.
Interestingly, he doesn't live too far from me. I'm going to be very general here, but I recently met one of his neighbors and let's just say they dont have the best relationship.
