Not sure if this has come up in the previous pages, but does it make sense to hire a HC before a GM, if the GM is the one who is supposed to oversee everything?
I know timing is a thing but I'm just worried about another scenario where that happens and the GM is "stuck" with a HC he doesn't like.
General Manager/Head Coach Interview Discussion
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McCaskey said it was their preference to hire a GM first. Fwiw I saw Minnesota was already interviewing at least one HC candidate.Xee wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:58 pm Not sure if this has come up in the previous pages, but does it make sense to hire a HC before a GM, if the GM is the one who is supposed to oversee everything?
I know timing is a thing but I'm just worried about another scenario where that happens and the GM is "stuck" with a HC he doesn't like.
Just wait and see (though people will probably make whatever assumptions they want at the end of the day)
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The process seems flawed. If they prefer a GM hire first, then focus your time on interviewing GM candidates first. I understand not waiting to interview a HC that might be a hot commodity and all, but we are interviewing everyone all at once with seemingly no preferred candidates. It’s just odd.
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Eh, these are all presumed to be pretty cursory interviews. Beyond possibly missing out on a hot candidate, which is an overstated concern, there is still a narrow window to interview playoff team candidates.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:35 am The process seems flawed. If they prefer a GM hire first, then focus your time on interviewing GM candidates first. I understand not waiting to interview a HC that might be a hot commodity and all, but we are interviewing everyone all at once with seemingly no preferred candidates. It’s just odd.
As long as the GM has full autonomy to set their list, it's hopefully no harm and potentially clears some administrative hurdles of likely candidates.
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Pros: The right HC candidate will (hopefully) already be screened by upper management.Xee wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:58 pm Not sure if this has come up in the previous pages, but does it make sense to hire a HC before a GM, if the GM is the one who is supposed to oversee everything?
I know timing is a thing but I'm just worried about another scenario where that happens and the GM is "stuck" with a HC he doesn't like.
Cons: Every HC candidate with a pulse is going to want to wait to see who the GM is before committing.
Question: If the GM is going to report to George (not a football guy) McCaskey and Ted is back to counting beans, why are George and Ted interviewing HC candidates at all?
Of course, maybe they're not. Maybe it's just Polian and whatever admin people George wants in the room, but that's not the impression I get from reporting.
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Isnt this just the first round of interviews where they narrow it down and make a list? I thought(could be wrong) we are in the short window where these playoff teams coaches can be interviewed. If a hot candidate we like ends up making a deep run thru the playoffs and we havent interviewed them at all during this time, isn't that the Bears failing to do everything they can to get the right person?dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:35 am The process seems flawed. If they prefer a GM hire first, then focus your time on interviewing GM candidates first. I understand not waiting to interview a HC that might be a hot commodity and all, but we are interviewing everyone all at once with seemingly no preferred candidates. It’s just odd.
With that said it is the McCaskey's. They could throw darts at a wall of pictures and have a better chance of success chosing the right person. I'm hoping they just let Polian make the decision.
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Good article in the Suntimes this a.m. on the need to hire a present offensive coordinator as head coach:
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... m-caldwell
Offense wins in today's NFL. Got to have stout enough D to keep in the game but the days of Monsters of the Midway ball are done unless another 1985/2018 D can be built.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2022 ... m-caldwell
Offense wins in today's NFL. Got to have stout enough D to keep in the game but the days of Monsters of the Midway ball are done unless another 1985/2018 D can be built.
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So long as Polian is driving the bus I guess it’s ok. But I still don’t get it. Like, if the new GM has full autonomy to choose their HC list then what’s the point of cursory interviews exactly? Are they building opinions on these coaches and then using those opinions when evaluating GMs (asking who they’d target for HC)? And they are interviewing so many, is it not slowing down their GM process?The Cooler King wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:47 amEh, these are all presumed to be pretty cursory interviews. Beyond possibly missing out on a hot candidate, which is an overstated concern, there is still a narrow window to interview playoff team candidates.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:35 am The process seems flawed. If they prefer a GM hire first, then focus your time on interviewing GM candidates first. I understand not waiting to interview a HC that might be a hot commodity and all, but we are interviewing everyone all at once with seemingly no preferred candidates. It’s just odd.
As long as the GM has full autonomy to set their list, it's hopefully no harm and potentially clears some administrative hurdles of likely candidates.
Honestly all the GM candidates seem pretty solid choices. I’d like to see us pick one and get on with it and have that guy start finding the HC.
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Folks would be FREAKING out if no potential HC candidates were being mentioned and they were only working through GM guys.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:35 am The process seems flawed. If they prefer a GM hire first, then focus your time on interviewing GM candidates first. I understand not waiting to interview a HC that might be a hot commodity and all, but we are interviewing everyone all at once with seemingly no preferred candidates. It’s just odd.
I think the approach is fine. Interview both, find the two that fit with each other.
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Putting Polians role aside if what George says is true and it's wholly his call and the GM will wholly repprt to him, I am happy for him to surround him with as much of a football deep dive as possible and talk to as many smart football people as he can. Thats whether it's a coach or a GM. This is a unique opportunity to pick the brains of smart football people around the league.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:18 amSo long as Polian is driving the bus I guess it’s ok. But I still don’t get it. Like, if the new GM has full autonomy to choose their HC list then what’s the point of cursory interviews exactly? Are they building opinions on these coaches and then using those opinions when evaluating GMs (asking who they’d target for HC)? And they are interviewing so many, is it not slowing down their GM process?The Cooler King wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:47 am
Eh, these are all presumed to be pretty cursory interviews. Beyond possibly missing out on a hot candidate, which is an overstated concern, there is still a narrow window to interview playoff team candidates.
As long as the GM has full autonomy to set their list, it's hopefully no harm and potentially clears some administrative hurdles of likely candidates.
Honestly all the GM candidates seem pretty solid choices. I’d like to see us pick one and get on with it and have that guy start finding the HC.
So we just come back to: the GM still should have full autonomy. Although he obviously still did leave the door open that they'd choose coach first, but we'll have to just wait and see.
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I don't really care *that* much about who the HC is, as long as he brings an unquestioned "identity" to the Bears overall and particularly on offense. I want the OC to bring a scheme that values the running game & uses it creatively. I'm just in awe of KC's inside run/pass game in the red zone and want to see more stuff like that. And like them I want to see an option on almost every single play to score... stretching the field vertically as well as horizontally to open things up & take advantage of JF1's monster Wilson-esque arm.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
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I can see the point on brain picking but I don't see George playing 3D chess here. I'm just balancing in my head what we all might hope is happening vs the litany of failures we've seen from ownership over the past 3 decades. My instinct is to not trust them to do what's right and I'm worried that they are simultaneously vetting HC and GM, and that they are forming opinions on HC candidates that will influence their choice of GM. Which is all wrong IMO, they have said clearly that they aren't capable of making football decisions and that they want a GM to have complete ownership of all things football. If that's true, then you can't be forming opinions on your GM selection process if that includes their view somehow lining up with your view of HC - because you've already said you aren't capable of the HC decision (so you may very well mistakenly influence, positively or negatively, your GM decision).The Cooler King wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:57 amPutting Polians role aside if what George says is true and it's wholly his call and the GM will wholly repprt to him, I am happy for him to surround him with as much of a football deep dive as possible and talk to as many smart football people as he can. Thats whether it's a coach or a GM. This is a unique opportunity to pick the brains of smart football people around the league.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:18 am
So long as Polian is driving the bus I guess it’s ok. But I still don’t get it. Like, if the new GM has full autonomy to choose their HC list then what’s the point of cursory interviews exactly? Are they building opinions on these coaches and then using those opinions when evaluating GMs (asking who they’d target for HC)? And they are interviewing so many, is it not slowing down their GM process?
Honestly all the GM candidates seem pretty solid choices. I’d like to see us pick one and get on with it and have that guy start finding the HC.
So we just come back to: the GM still should have full autonomy. Although he obviously still did leave the door open that they'd choose coach first, but we'll have to just wait and see.
I think the only HC candidates they should be meeting with are the ones that would have a lot of say in personnel. The coordinators though, make no sense to me. George has no business talking with coordinators IMO. If they are gonna let the GM decide, then they need to do that. The GM decision should be quick, there are a lot of qualified candidates and they should have been organizing their preferred candidates for months now. Meet with them, there's nothing holding you back from meeting with them right now unlike the coaches who might still be playing games - meet with your short list and make a call - THIS WEEK. Then turn that guy loose on HC search, you haven't lost anything time wise on your HC search if you act decisively on GM IMO.
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I think it makes sense to interview the playoff coaches while the window is open, and there could be value in interviewing the other coaches too.
Presumably, the GM candidates will be asked about their preliminary thoughts on the coaches that should be interviewed. If you’ve already interviewed the coaches he’s mentioned and were unimpressed, maybe you’d have some more skepticism about the GM candidate. Or vice versa.
Presumably, the GM candidates will be asked about their preliminary thoughts on the coaches that should be interviewed. If you’ve already interviewed the coaches he’s mentioned and were unimpressed, maybe you’d have some more skepticism about the GM candidate. Or vice versa.
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Here’s my prediction:
Daboll to Miami
Flores to Giants
Bears pull a rabbit out of the hat and land Harbaugh
Daboll to Miami
Flores to Giants
Bears pull a rabbit out of the hat and land Harbaugh
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Not sure I understand your coordinator point. No one is being evaluated for coordinator roles.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:57 amI can see the point on brain picking but I don't see George playing 3D chess here. I'm just balancing in my head what we all might hope is happening vs the litany of failures we've seen from ownership over the past 3 decades. My instinct is to not trust them to do what's right and I'm worried that they are simultaneously vetting HC and GM, and that they are forming opinions on HC candidates that will influence their choice of GM. Which is all wrong IMO, they have said clearly that they aren't capable of making football decisions and that they want a GM to have complete ownership of all things football. If that's true, then you can't be forming opinions on your GM selection process if that includes their view somehow lining up with your view of HC - because you've already said you aren't capable of the HC decision (so you may very well mistakenly influence, positively or negatively, your GM decision).The Cooler King wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:57 am
Putting Polians role aside if what George says is true and it's wholly his call and the GM will wholly repprt to him, I am happy for him to surround him with as much of a football deep dive as possible and talk to as many smart football people as he can. Thats whether it's a coach or a GM. This is a unique opportunity to pick the brains of smart football people around the league.
So we just come back to: the GM still should have full autonomy. Although he obviously still did leave the door open that they'd choose coach first, but we'll have to just wait and see.
I think the only HC candidates they should be meeting with are the ones that would have a lot of say in personnel. The coordinators though, make no sense to me. George has no business talking with coordinators IMO. If they are gonna let the GM decide, then they need to do that. The GM decision should be quick, there are a lot of qualified candidates and they should have been organizing their preferred candidates for months now. Meet with them, there's nothing holding you back from meeting with them right now unlike the coaches who might still be playing games - meet with your short list and make a call - THIS WEEK. Then turn that guy loose on HC search, you haven't lost anything time wise on your HC search if you act decisively on GM IMO.
I'm also not sure how they are expected to have a GM choice ready to go that quickly. While I understand there may be some level of back door vetting in advance, evaluating a FO has to be considered challenging from the outside. You need to get guys in and speak directly. Only so much can be known about a guys qualifications, they aren't out there 17 weeks a year putting their resume on film like a coach might be.
Also while the FO staff is presumably not as busy as coaches right now, I believe that playoff team executives are under the same interview restrictions and playoff team coaches, fwiw.
While I understand the org hasn't really given us the benefit of the doubt, I just think the HC thing is fine. A seemingly well run org in Minnesota is doing it. As far as them unduly influencing the GM search with HC search... I think maybe people are putting too much stock into the Pace-Fox thing still. And bears repeating perhaps: Fox was still coaching the Broncos the day Pace was hired. Now while ownership probably had some influence on that eventual hire of Fox, it's clear it isn't an issue of timing and any sort of undue influence.
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Regarding the GM hire/timing...I really disagree. We came up with a list of what, 10 guys already? OK, that's great and unless they were asleep at the wheel these are people they have been considering for at least a few weeks prior to Week 18. So 10 guys is a perfectly qualified list of candidates, you can start the process of interviewing them immediately. Like, you could have interviewed all 10 last week and narrowed down to your top 3, which could have follow up meetings this week and then you make your call. There's no reason to extend it beyond two weeks, the list of candidates is relatively small and if you are focused on it you can get through it in 2 weeks no problem. And if you pace this process properly, then you can have your GM doing the coaching search which is what we all think is what should happen.
The longer you string out your GM decision, the more risk you have of either a) losing talent to another team or b) being in a position where George selects the HC. But if you're interviewing a dozen HC candidates as well, then maybe you can't get through your GM list in this same time frame.
At the end of the day, we've seen the Bears org screw this up repeatedly and there's no reason to think they won't screw it up again. Focusing on just solving the one problem that the ownership team must solve for (GM), removes risk that they have to make decisions elsewhere. We should all want George McCaskey making as few football decisions as possible!
The longer you string out your GM decision, the more risk you have of either a) losing talent to another team or b) being in a position where George selects the HC. But if you're interviewing a dozen HC candidates as well, then maybe you can't get through your GM list in this same time frame.
At the end of the day, we've seen the Bears org screw this up repeatedly and there's no reason to think they won't screw it up again. Focusing on just solving the one problem that the ownership team must solve for (GM), removes risk that they have to make decisions elsewhere. We should all want George McCaskey making as few football decisions as possible!
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I'd rather they try and make the right decision rather than make a fast decision.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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Thisthunderspirit wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:58 pm I'd rather they try and make the right decision rather than make a fast decision.
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Very flawed logic, one doesn't preclude the other. Going slow doesn't guarantee the right decision any more than going fast guarantees the wrong one. There is competition for these services, you snooze you lose. Think more like an entrepreneur and less like a government worker - George seems to fit the latter.wab wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:58 pmThisthunderspirit wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:58 pm I'd rather they try and make the right decision rather than make a fast decision.
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I think you are missing the point entirely. Fast, slow, doesn't matter. Make the right choice for once.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:02 pmVery flawed logic, one doesn't preclude the other. Going slow doesn't guarantee the right decision any more than going fast guarantees the wrong one. There is competition for these services, you snooze you lose. Think more like an entrepreneur and less like a government worker - George seems to fit the latter.
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They probably will screw it up because it’s the McCaskey’s but it’s only been a week and no other team looking for a GM has hired one or as far as I’m aware has even announced finalists yet.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:45 pm Regarding the GM hire/timing...I really disagree. We came up with a list of what, 10 guys already? OK, that's great and unless they were asleep at the wheel these are people they have been considering for at least a few weeks prior to Week 18. So 10 guys is a perfectly qualified list of candidates, you can start the process of interviewing them immediately. Like, you could have interviewed all 10 last week and narrowed down to your top 3, which could have follow up meetings this week and then you make your call. There's no reason to extend it beyond two weeks, the list of candidates is relatively small and if you are focused on it you can get through it in 2 weeks no problem. And if you pace this process properly, then you can have your GM doing the coaching search which is what we all think is what should happen.
The longer you string out your GM decision, the more risk you have of either a) losing talent to another team or b) being in a position where George selects the HC. But if you're interviewing a dozen HC candidates as well, then maybe you can't get through your GM list in this same time frame.
At the end of the day, we've seen the Bears org screw this up repeatedly and there's no reason to think they won't screw it up again. Focusing on just solving the one problem that the ownership team must solve for (GM), removes risk that they have to make decisions elsewhere. We should all want George McCaskey making as few football decisions as possible!
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Agree.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:02 pmVery flawed logic, one doesn't preclude the other. Going slow doesn't guarantee the right decision any more than going fast guarantees the wrong one. There is competition for these services, you snooze you lose. Think more like an entrepreneur and less like a government worker - George seems to fit the latter.
George does seem to be better suited to be the one helpful guy a the DMV.
Halas Hall does not set the schedule, the market sets the schedule. And the market may close down while George is checking boxes.
Or put another way, this is high stakes musical chairs and music can stop at any time.
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Maybe, but I think you're missing my point as well. I agree that I just want to make the right choice. We all agree on that. What I'm saying is that it doesn't need to take several weeks to decide between 10 qualified candidates - you aren't getting any better chance of landing the right GM by slow rolling it. A thorough process can be done in just a few weeks if you focus on it, and you have neither improved nor hurt your chances of making the right decision.wab wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:06 pmI think you are missing the point entirely. Fast, slow, doesn't matter. Make the right choice for once.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:02 pm
Very flawed logic, one doesn't preclude the other. Going slow doesn't guarantee the right decision any more than going fast guarantees the wrong one. There is competition for these services, you snooze you lose. Think more like an entrepreneur and less like a government worker - George seems to fit the latter.
On the flip side though, once you get your GM in place, you have now removed the risk of George also hiring our HC or misaligning HC/GM. We've done this before, Pace/Fox was a misalignment from day 1.
So if fast/slow doesn't matter (I totally agree with you there), then go fast so that you can have the GM select your HC from a full pool of available candidates. Every day you wait you risk losing a HC to another team that outpaced you, or George falling in love and jumping the gun on a HC hire on his own. If fast/slow doesn't matter, then go fast and ensure you have the GM choosing the HC and ensure that he isn't behind the 8 ball when you task him with doing so. Don't set your new GM up to fail because you took too long hiring him!
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Absolute best case scenario was still probably 4 extending into early this week because of playoff teams. So if they take through the end of this week instead of Mon/Tues for initial interviews is it that big of a deal?dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:45 pm Regarding the GM hire/timing...I really disagree. We came up with a list of what, 10 guys already? OK, that's great and unless they were asleep at the wheel these are people they have been considering for at least a few weeks prior to Week 18. So 10 guys is a perfectly qualified list of candidates, you can start the process of interviewing them immediately. Like, you could have interviewed all 10 last week and narrowed down to your top 3, which could have follow up meetings this week and then you make your call. There's no reason to extend it beyond two weeks, the list of candidates is relatively small and if you are focused on it you can get through it in 2 weeks no problem. And if you pace this process properly, then you can have your GM doing the coaching search which is what we all think is what should happen.
The longer you string out your GM decision, the more risk you have of either a) losing talent to another team or b) being in a position where George selects the HC. But if you're interviewing a dozen HC candidates as well, then maybe you can't get through your GM list in this same time frame.
At the end of the day, we've seen the Bears org screw this up repeatedly and there's no reason to think they won't screw it up again. Focusing on just solving the one problem that the ownership team must solve for (GM), removes risk that they have to make decisions elsewhere. We should all want George McCaskey making as few football decisions as possible!
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I agree. One can make a case that the GM is the most important person in the whole franchise.wab wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:58 pmThisthunderspirit wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:58 pm I'd rather they try and make the right decision rather than make a fast decision.
There is a GM named Poles
Who has a clear set of goals
He’s rebuilt his team
So Bears’ fans can dream
Of winning some more Super Bowls
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Who has a clear set of goals
He’s rebuilt his team
So Bears’ fans can dream
Of winning some more Super Bowls
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Yes well put. George works on George time, but the rest of the league tends to outpace us regularly. We're dinosaurs. When the tumblers start to fall and coaches start getting hired, it could go fast and we'll be left with no dance partner or sloppy seconds.dave99 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:20 pmAgree.dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:02 pm
Very flawed logic, one doesn't preclude the other. Going slow doesn't guarantee the right decision any more than going fast guarantees the wrong one. There is competition for these services, you snooze you lose. Think more like an entrepreneur and less like a government worker - George seems to fit the latter.
George does seem to be better suited to be the one helpful guy a the DMV.
Halas Hall does not set the schedule, the market sets the schedule. And the market may close down while George is checking boxes.
Or put another way, this is high stakes musical chairs and music can stop at any time.
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How are playoff teams relevant with regards to the GM search?The Cooler King wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:26 pmAbsolute best case scenario was still probably 4 extending into early this week because of playoff teams. So if they take through the end of this week instead of Mon/Tues for initial interviews is it that big of a deal?dplank wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:45 pm Regarding the GM hire/timing...I really disagree. We came up with a list of what, 10 guys already? OK, that's great and unless they were asleep at the wheel these are people they have been considering for at least a few weeks prior to Week 18. So 10 guys is a perfectly qualified list of candidates, you can start the process of interviewing them immediately. Like, you could have interviewed all 10 last week and narrowed down to your top 3, which could have follow up meetings this week and then you make your call. There's no reason to extend it beyond two weeks, the list of candidates is relatively small and if you are focused on it you can get through it in 2 weeks no problem. And if you pace this process properly, then you can have your GM doing the coaching search which is what we all think is what should happen.
The longer you string out your GM decision, the more risk you have of either a) losing talent to another team or b) being in a position where George selects the HC. But if you're interviewing a dozen HC candidates as well, then maybe you can't get through your GM list in this same time frame.
At the end of the day, we've seen the Bears org screw this up repeatedly and there's no reason to think they won't screw it up again. Focusing on just solving the one problem that the ownership team must solve for (GM), removes risk that they have to make decisions elsewhere. We should all want George McCaskey making as few football decisions as possible!
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IMO, by interview HC and GM candidates simultaneously, they are moving pretty quickly. I think it's pretty fair to say that each GM candidate has said "out of who you've asked to interview, here's the 2-3 guys I'd interview for HC".
Also - has any other team with an opening hired someone? It's not as if positions are being filled and the Bears are lagging behind.
Also - has any other team with an opening hired someone? It's not as if positions are being filled and the Bears are lagging behind.