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HurricaneBear
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Hiphopopotamos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:57 am
bearsoldier wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 7:36 am

He is my 1st choice as well but as you said... "Smith is so much of a no-brainer that even the Bears brain trust shouldn't even be able to screw this up."


That is exactly what concerns me... We had Arians at Halas Hall wanting to sign on as HC and the dumb asses passed on him for Trestman... We know all to well how this typically goes for the Bears.

Who passed on Arians? Phil Emery was the GM. Did you want the owner to override the choice of his GM? That GM is gone.
If the GM is so obviously wrong as Emery was, then yes, yes I do. At the end of the day this team is the McCaskeys and if they see a dumb ass decision on the Arians coming off coach of the year vs CFL shy quiet with tons of question marks Trestman then the owner absolutely should step in and say something. Any normal job in the world it would be expected of an owner to step in and correct stupidity. Why not the NFL?

Now the fact that the McCaskey's are idiots as well makes me think they wouldn't realize the wrong decision staring at them. But the point is if they did, they absolutely should step in, GM's ego be damned.
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The Cooler King wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:18 am
TheWorldBreaker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:10 am

With them interviewing Brown and Wolf today, I believe they still have Khan, Smith, Carthon, and Mackenzie to interview.

They’ve been usually doing two interviews a day, so unless they add more or I’m missing some it looks like they’re on pace to be in a position to announce finalists on Friday.
There have been a few days they got 3 in. But yea that sounds realistic.

Then hopefully next week the finalist interviews. I'd imagine it's a least 3 finalists. I believe at least 2 in person interviews will need to be minority candidates to meet Rooney Rule (believe I had seen that Zoom interviews won't count) and the new rules from last year now require 2 instead of 1. So depending on how winnowing has gone, even 5 finalists wouldn't be out of question.
I wonder if they interviewed Champ Kelly in person since he already works in the building.
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TheWorldBreaker wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:24 am
The Cooler King wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:18 am

There have been a few days they got 3 in. But yea that sounds realistic.

Then hopefully next week the finalist interviews. I'd imagine it's a least 3 finalists. I believe at least 2 in person interviews will need to be minority candidates to meet Rooney Rule (believe I had seen that Zoom interviews won't count) and the new rules from last year now require 2 instead of 1. So depending on how winnowing has gone, even 5 finalists wouldn't be out of question.
I wonder if they interviewed Champ Kelly in person since he already works in the building.
Good point. To be clear I don't think they should have any issue meeting Rooney Rule requirements. Rumor is Cook is likely to get a call back. So even just one other minority finalist would ensure they are Rooney Rule compliant. I'm really hopeful for Smith or Khan. There's also smoke around Ossenfort so I'm expecting hell be a finalist (not a minority).

So 3-5 finalist sounds realistic, which is probably in line with pre Zoom days as far as candidate depth.
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HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:19 am
Hiphopopotamos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:57 am


Who passed on Arians? Phil Emery was the GM. Did you want the owner to override the choice of his GM? That GM is gone.
If the GM is so obviously wrong as Emery was, then yes, yes I do. At the end of the day this team is the McCaskeys and if they see a dumb ass decision on the Arians coming off coach of the year vs CFL shy quiet with tons of question marks Trestman then the owner absolutely should step in and say something. Any normal job in the world it would be expected of an owner to step in and correct stupidity. Why not the NFL?

Now the fact that the McCaskey's are idiots as well makes me think they wouldn't realize the wrong decision staring at them. But the point is if they did, they absolutely should step in, GM's ego be damned.
Two things - 1. Overriding the GM decision is exactly what people here routinely accuse the McCaskey's of doing - and get pissed at them for. So on one hand you want them to do it - on the other you're terrified of them doing it.

2. Arians had his own issues. Tom Brady has made his shine a little brighter and 'revisioned' his history a little. Arians went to Arizona had two really good years and then as soon as things started getting hard (a couple of .500 seasons) he 'retired' for health reasons. Then a year later he shows up fully refreshed in Tampa and goes 7-9. He's saved by a retiring NE'er who wants to move to Florida.

Arians was 61 when he was passed over for the Bears job and had never sniffed a HC job until he took over for Pagano. Sure - things might have gone great in Chicago - or he might have decided to retire for 'health' reasons after a couple of shitty years with Jay Cutler.
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Hiphopopotamos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:54 am
HurricaneBear wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:19 am

If the GM is so obviously wrong as Emery was, then yes, yes I do. At the end of the day this team is the McCaskeys and if they see a dumb ass decision on the Arians coming off coach of the year vs CFL shy quiet with tons of question marks Trestman then the owner absolutely should step in and say something. Any normal job in the world it would be expected of an owner to step in and correct stupidity. Why not the NFL?

Now the fact that the McCaskey's are idiots as well makes me think they wouldn't realize the wrong decision staring at them. But the point is if they did, they absolutely should step in, GM's ego be damned.
Two things - 1. Overriding the GM decision is exactly what people here routinely accuse the McCaskey's of doing - and get pissed at them for. So on one hand you want them to do it - on the other you're terrified of them doing it.

2. Arians had his own issues. Tom Brady has made his shine a little brighter and 'revisioned' his history a little. Arians went to Arizona had two really good years and then as soon as things started getting hard (a couple of .500 seasons) he 'retired' for health reasons. Then a year later he shows up fully refreshed in Tampa and goes 7-9. He's saved by a retiring NE'er who wants to move to Florida.

Arians was 61 when he was passed over for the Bears job and had never sniffed a HC job until he took over for Pagano. Sure - things might have gone great in Chicago - or he might have decided to retire for 'health' reasons after a couple of shitty years with Jay Cutler.
1 - I believe an owner should take ownership over their own business and run it. If they disagree with a decision, especially an obvious one, I absolutely think that owner should do something in any business. It is their business after all.

I also believe the McCaskey's are idiots. Just because I believe their idiots doesn't mean I don't think they should run their business the way they see fit. It's their business, not mine. I hate alot of the decisions they make but I choose to be a fan of their product, thats on me not them. I also can not remember a time where I have said the McCaskey meddle. Maybe I have and forgot but it's not a line of thinking I really am a part of. So let's not group me with those who think they meddle too much please. Thinking they are idiots that make wrong decisions is different then meddling too much with the coach or GM.

2 - Arians, even with issues, was coming off a coach of the year season, was a respected, tougher coach that had just shown he could lead a locker room during adversity. The Bears were a family type team and Lovie was their father figure. Trestman never had a chance to win that locker room and it was obvious to any one with eyes. If i recall correctly, Marinelli told Emery he wouldnt work with Trestman but would consider Arians. That should have given Emery the pulse of the locker room right there.

Just because he could have retired due to health reasons does not mean it would have been the wrong choice to hire him. The right and obvious choice at the time was Arians, and that's agreed on by most people. I'm not stating anything crazy with this one. No revisionist history needed. Arians record in Pitt, Indy was enough and his time with the Cardinals would have been worlds better if that's all we got than what Trestman delivered.
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Google says Minnesota is also likely to interview him.

*He was also Brian Flores first DC in Miami*
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I do like Graham. It's nice to hear his name in the mix. He'd push Eberflus out of my top 5. No particular order after Flores...although Quinn didn't exactly improve his standing after the playoff game.

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Looks like Joe Schoen is getting a second interview with the Giants - think he hires Brian Daboll if he lands the Giants gig. In addition to Frazier, I think Flores, Bowles and Eberflus (especially if Dodds gets the GM job) are most likely.

Graham is interesting - SUPPOSEDLY, within NFL circles, he's regarded as one of the brightest defensive minds in the game and a hotter coaching candidate than many may surmise
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IotaNet wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:38 am You're not supposed to say this, and I may be a troglodyte, but does anyone else have discomfort that Daboll is so obviously out of shape?

It isn't supposed to matter but he definitely doesn't cut the figure. (Neither does Andy Reid or Matt Patricia but still ...)

Feel free to flame away. :backout:
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I'm just curious, does anyone have a link explaining what's typically asked in a GM interview? I heard that Glenn Cook did well which made my wonder what questions are typically asked.
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Personally I'd rather have my OC doing the seminar circuit or chatting up innovative college coaches over beers or grinding tape than lifting weights
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did everyone catch Chris Ballard's end of year presser? a lot of open honesty and accountability for what transpired with the Colts ... it was refreshing to hear a GM do such an honest public assessment without the need to throw someone under the bus ... and it was such a stark difference from the "we're oh so close" bullshit coming from the failed Bears

if Ed Dodds is a true Ballard disciple and has learned well from him, I think he has become my tentative favorite

the Colts may not get everything right, and their end of season meltdown was a disaster ... but they won't sugar coat when things don't go well and seem to take direct approaches to solving their issues, both things the Bears can learn from whether they hire Dodds or not
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Reports are that the Giants are moving very quickly in their search and a Schoen/Daboll combination is very possible.

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If I had to guess... I'd say this is how it sorts out.

Chicago Bears: Patrick Graham
Denver Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett
Houston Texans: Brian Daboll
Jacksonville Jaguars: Byron Leftwich
Las Vegas Raiders: Raheem Morris
Miami Dolphins: Todd Bowles
Minnesota Vikings: Doug Pederson
New York Giants: Brian Flores
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wab wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:30 pm If I had to guess... I'd say this is how it sorts out.

Chicago Bears: Patrick Graham
Denver Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett
Houston Texans: Brian Daboll
Jacksonville Jaguars: Byron Leftwich
Las Vegas Raiders: Raheem Morris
Miami Dolphins: Todd Bowles
Minnesota Vikings: Doug Pederson
New York Giants: Brian Flores
I dunno man. Patrick Graham feels like a bad fit. Feels like the guy you'd settle on after the process left you with fewer options.
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UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:33 pm
wab wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:30 pm If I had to guess... I'd say this is how it sorts out.

Chicago Bears: Patrick Graham
Denver Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett
Houston Texans: Brian Daboll
Jacksonville Jaguars: Byron Leftwich
Las Vegas Raiders: Raheem Morris
Miami Dolphins: Todd Bowles
Minnesota Vikings: Doug Pederson
New York Giants: Brian Flores
I dunno man. Patrick Graham feels like a bad fit. Feels like the guy you'd settle on after the process left you with fewer options.
I liken him to the Tomlin hire to the Steelers. He's extremely well thought-of in the league. He's less sizzle; all steak.

I agree with most of your prediction, wab. I'm wondering if Flores goes to NYG that Graham may stick around there as AHC. If anyone else goes to NYG it sorf of forces Graham elsewhere.

One wild stab at a prediction: Carr to Texans for Watson; Flores to Raiders.
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UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:33 pm
wab wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:30 pm If I had to guess... I'd say this is how it sorts out.

Chicago Bears: Patrick Graham
Denver Broncos: Nathaniel Hackett
Houston Texans: Brian Daboll
Jacksonville Jaguars: Byron Leftwich
Las Vegas Raiders: Raheem Morris
Miami Dolphins: Todd Bowles
Minnesota Vikings: Doug Pederson
New York Giants: Brian Flores
I dunno man. Patrick Graham feels like a bad fit. Feels like the guy you'd settle on after the process left you with fewer options.
I think Graham is a pretty lights out candidate that not a lot of people talk about. I was really happy to see his name added to the list.

IE is pretty spot on with the Tomlin comp. Desai could stay on too given that Graham's defense matches up pretty well with what the Bears already do.

He's got a few things going for him that the Bears seemingly would like:
1 - young and respected around the NFL
2 - a local
3 - experience on both sides of the ball
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Hopefully we can slow down on any Bears HC predictions until we see who the GM is.
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Boris13c wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:26 pm did everyone catch Chris Ballard's end of year presser? a lot of open honesty and accountability for what transpired with the Colts ... it was refreshing to hear a GM do such an honest public assessment without the need to throw someone under the bus ... and it was such a stark difference from the "we're oh so close" bullshit coming from the failed Bears

if Ed Dodds is a true Ballard disciple and has learned well from him, I think he has become my tentative favorite

the Colts may not get everything right, and their end of season meltdown was a disaster ... but they won't sugar coat when things don't go well and seem to take direct approaches to solving their issues, both things the Bears can learn from whether they hire Dodds or not

A lot of the media ass-kissing for Ballard comes from the fact that he is so accessible to them and is generally transparent about their processes. Thats great. The Colts are 41-40 in his 5 years as GM. They got the QB position wrong. Again. The results are what they are.

I heard a Colts media guy call Ballard 'unquestionably the best GM in football' and I have to wonder what the fuck kind of criteria they are using to decide that.
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wab wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:59 pm
UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:33 pm

I dunno man. Patrick Graham feels like a bad fit. Feels like the guy you'd settle on after the process left you with fewer options.
I think Graham is a pretty lights out candidate that not a lot of people talk about. I was really happy to see his name added to the list.

IE is pretty spot on with the Tomlin comp. Desai could stay on too given that Graham's defense matches up pretty well with what the Bears already do.

He's got a few things going for him that the Bears seemingly would like:
1 - young and respected around the NFL
2 - a local
3 - experience on both sides of the ball
I like everything I've read of Graham as a coach - but do worry if he has spent too much of his career in that NE 'bubble' and also that his last few jobs ended with the HC getting fired. He was there for McAdoo's two year run in NY before getting fired and then for McCarthy's last year in GB. Spent one year with Flores and then two years under Joe Judge. Those aren't stellar coaching trees.

Nobody has been able to replicate what Bill B does - and he hasn't apprenticed under any other successful HC's he might want to emulate. Its always good to know what not to do - but eventually you need to be taught what the right way to do it is.
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UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:27 pm
This gruntles me. So gruntled right now.
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wulfy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:27 pm Reports are that the Giants are moving very quickly in their search and a Schoen/Daboll combination is very possible.

I wonder if they feel strongly about one of the QB prospects. That could push NY as a favored destination for candidates. Or if as rumored with Flores, there's a willingness from ownership to get Watson.
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Hiphopopotamos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:35 pm
wab wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:59 pm
I think Graham is a pretty lights out candidate that not a lot of people talk about. I was really happy to see his name added to the list.

IE is pretty spot on with the Tomlin comp. Desai could stay on too given that Graham's defense matches up pretty well with what the Bears already do.

He's got a few things going for him that the Bears seemingly would like:
1 - young and respected around the NFL
2 - a local
3 - experience on both sides of the ball
I like everything I've read of Graham as a coach - but do worry if he has spent too much of his career in that NE 'bubble' and also that his last few jobs ended with the HC getting fired. He was there for McAdoo's two year run in NY before getting fired and then for McCarthy's last year in GB. Spent one year with Flores and then two years under Joe Judge. Those aren't stellar coaching trees.

Nobody has been able to replicate what Bill B does - and he hasn't apprenticed under any other successful HC's he might want to emulate. Its always good to know what not to do - but eventually you need to be taught what the right way to do it is.
Valid points. What I've read/heard is at a lower level than records and the outcome for the folks above him.... how Graham operates when nobody is watching (student of the game/innovative thinker stuff), relates with players and teams and then the general impression that his defensive strategies and calls have been producing results that exceed expectation given the material he's working with (in NY, despite their statistical performance). Real nuts & bolts competence type stuff that IMO is exactly what was missing with Nagy.
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First time GM and first time head coach in the biggest nastiest media market? And they've gotta make it work with Daniel Jones or a QB from this draft class or a guy now famous for being a sexual predator? Good luck
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The Cooler King wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:38 pm
wulfy wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:27 pm Reports are that the Giants are moving very quickly in their search and a Schoen/Daboll combination is very possible.

I wonder if they feel strongly about one of the QB prospects. That could push NY as a favored destination for candidates. Or if as rumored with Flores, there's a willingness from ownership to get Watson.
This Post writer seems to think they may go all in on Watson.

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IE wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:40 pm
Hiphopopotamos wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:35 pm

I like everything I've read of Graham as a coach - but do worry if he has spent too much of his career in that NE 'bubble' and also that his last few jobs ended with the HC getting fired. He was there for McAdoo's two year run in NY before getting fired and then for McCarthy's last year in GB. Spent one year with Flores and then two years under Joe Judge. Those aren't stellar coaching trees.

Nobody has been able to replicate what Bill B does - and he hasn't apprenticed under any other successful HC's he might want to emulate. Its always good to know what not to do - but eventually you need to be taught what the right way to do it is.
Valid points. What I've read/heard is at a lower level than records and the outcome for the folks above him.... how Graham operates when nobody is watching (student of the game/innovative thinker stuff), relates with players and teams and then the general impression that his defensive strategies and calls have been producing results that exceed expectation given the material he's working with (in NY, despite their statistical performance). Real nuts & bolts competence type stuff that IMO is exactly what was missing with Nagy.
Exactly. He's like Flores, just with less of a perceived attitude.
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UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:27 pm
#1 guy, like full control of the roster, draft, etc?

Um, I'd be ok w/ Flores as coach, but now way in hell do you give him control of the whole org. The guy's never won a thing.
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Burl wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:48 pm
UOK wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:27 pm
#1 guy, like full control of the roster, draft, etc?

Um, I'd be ok w/ Flores as coach, but now way in hell do you give him control of the whole org. The guy's never won a thing.
Yeah, he definitely hasn't earned full control.
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I just listened to that Charles Robinson interview. He didn't say that Flores wanted to hire his own GM or that he wanted full control - he described it as a Kyle Shanahan/John Lynch type of situation where the GM has to be comfortable with the Coach leading the organization. With the coach being a part of the personnel process - think of the opposite of Pace drafting Trubisky without telling Fox.
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