Omar Khan, GM Candidate
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- Grizzled
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Long time Steelers employee, now a Vice-President. He has more experience with the cap side rather than scouting. Polian favors guys from stable long-term successful organizations and the Steelers have been the poster child for this since the late '60s. McCaskey is big buddies with the Rooney family, calling the owner often for advice. I would like this guy as the new GM with additional President of Football Ops duties to interface with George.
Drafts are like snowflakes, no two are alike.
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Same, and he could retain Champ Kelly who is our scouting guru anyways (Pace got all the credit for those late round picks, but his staff found those guys)Grizzled wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:28 am Long time Steelers employee, now a Vice-President. He has more experience with the cap side rather than scouting. Polian favors guys from stable long-term successful organizations and the Steelers have been the poster child for this since the late '60s. McCaskey is big buddies with the Rooney family, calling the owner often for advice. I would like this guy as the new GM with additional President of Football Ops duties to interface with George.
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I'm all in on Omar Khan.
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Omar is the Steelers version of Cliff Stein. He's a numbers guy. I have no emotional attachment to him as a GM prospect.
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Watched a DaWindyCity Productions video on YouTube and it mentioned how well Khan could also be an asset on the accounting side when Phillips retires.
Also noticed an old article from 2020 with that exact thought in mind... He would have to lean on scouts for the best draft and personnel decisions, however, with his high intelligence level and 20yrs. of experience at Pittsburgh, he may be more capable than some are concerned with.
Another interesting detail I had read was that when seeking the GM job at Houston. The Texans had supposedly offered Khan the job, on the recommendation of the search firm the franchise hired. He was believed to be negotiating a deal and then it fell apart at the last moment. I did not read if it was a $$ subject, terms or??
https://beargoggleson.com/2020/12/05/ch ... cements/3/
"Could the Chicago Bears convince Omar Khan to take on this role?
Another name the Chicago Bears should be talking to is Omar Khan. Khan has been rumored as a general manager candidate, but I wonder if Khan could be convinced to take on the role of President instead.
Khan would bring some strong experience to the position in a way Ted Phillips seems to not be able. Not only has Khan been an excellent Vice President of Football and Business Administration, many believe he will either take over for Steeler’s general manager Kevin Colbert. It seems this could take some time though and I would hope the Bears could convince him to jump ship.
Throughout Khan’s career, he has become well known for his contract work and ability to work well within the salary cap. He might be difficult to sway though as he has already turned down previous general manager opportunities to stay with the Steeler, but this should not stop the Chicago Bears from courting him."
Also noticed an old article from 2020 with that exact thought in mind... He would have to lean on scouts for the best draft and personnel decisions, however, with his high intelligence level and 20yrs. of experience at Pittsburgh, he may be more capable than some are concerned with.
Another interesting detail I had read was that when seeking the GM job at Houston. The Texans had supposedly offered Khan the job, on the recommendation of the search firm the franchise hired. He was believed to be negotiating a deal and then it fell apart at the last moment. I did not read if it was a $$ subject, terms or??
https://beargoggleson.com/2020/12/05/ch ... cements/3/
"Could the Chicago Bears convince Omar Khan to take on this role?
Another name the Chicago Bears should be talking to is Omar Khan. Khan has been rumored as a general manager candidate, but I wonder if Khan could be convinced to take on the role of President instead.
Khan would bring some strong experience to the position in a way Ted Phillips seems to not be able. Not only has Khan been an excellent Vice President of Football and Business Administration, many believe he will either take over for Steeler’s general manager Kevin Colbert. It seems this could take some time though and I would hope the Bears could convince him to jump ship.
Throughout Khan’s career, he has become well known for his contract work and ability to work well within the salary cap. He might be difficult to sway though as he has already turned down previous general manager opportunities to stay with the Steeler, but this should not stop the Chicago Bears from courting him."
“Losers quit when they’re tired. Winners quit when they’ve won.” - Mike Ditka
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The is the “our head coach should be a ceo type” equivalent for the GM spot. He would rely on his scouts and pro personnel guys for evaluations and he would hold the ultimate vision for investments of money and draft capital. It would be a relief to have a guy at the top that will understand how to allocate resources
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I would be okay if the Bears cap and contract stuff was always cutting edge so we could just focus on the game.crueltyabc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:17 pm The is the “our head coach should be a ceo type” equivalent for the GM spot. He would rely on his scouts and pro personnel guys for evaluations and he would hold the ultimate vision for investments of money and draft capital. It would be a relief to have a guy at the top that will understand how to allocate resources
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I agree on all points as well... Maybe Champ Kelly is then in line for a promotion to Director of Player Personnel or Assistant GM... Also makes me wonder if current Director of Player Personnel, who was handpicked by Pace in 2015 as a scout from the Saints, is on the way out the door now too.dplank wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:14 amSame, and he could retain Champ Kelly who is our scouting guru anyways (Pace got all the credit for those late round picks, but his staff found those guys)Grizzled wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:28 am Long time Steelers employee, now a Vice-President. He has more experience with the cap side rather than scouting. Polian favors guys from stable long-term successful organizations and the Steelers have been the poster child for this since the late '60s. McCaskey is big buddies with the Rooney family, calling the owner often for advice. I would like this guy as the new GM with additional President of Football Ops duties to interface with George.
“Losers quit when they’re tired. Winners quit when they’ve won.” - Mike Ditka
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Historically, numbers/operations guys have actually had more success than scouting guys but teams usually prefer the scouting guys.Atkins&Rebel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:26 pm Omar is the Steelers version of Cliff Stein. He's a numbers guy. I have no emotional attachment to him as a GM prospect.
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Do you have any backup for that claim? Recent history is that teams have almost exclusively gone the scouting route, but I'm curious about methodology.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:15 pmHistorically, numbers/operations guys have actually had more success than scouting guys but teams usually prefer the scouting guys.Atkins&Rebel wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:26 pm Omar is the Steelers version of Cliff Stein. He's a numbers guy. I have no emotional attachment to him as a GM prospect.
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It’s from this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/ ... d-mistakesThe Cooler King wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:18 pmDo you have any backup for that claim? Recent history is that teams have almost exclusively gone the scouting route, but I'm curious about methodology.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:15 pm
Historically, numbers/operations guys have actually had more success than scouting guys but teams usually prefer the scouting guys.
The data showed that teams with GMs from scouting backgrounds won less than those with GMs who had a salary cap and football operations background, a group that includes New Orleans’s Mickey Loomis, Buffalo’s Brandon Beane, and Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman. There are small sample sizes when you’re dealing with over a decade of hires in a 32-team league, but it’s important to point out that the data shows no real difference in winning percentage between GMs who came from a Super Bowl team and those who did not.
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Interesting read - thanks, World Breaker & Cooler King.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:44 pmIt’s from this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/ ... d-mistakesThe Cooler King wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:18 pm
Do you have any backup for that claim? Recent history is that teams have almost exclusively gone the scouting route, but I'm curious about methodology.
The data showed that teams with GMs from scouting backgrounds won less than those with GMs who had a salary cap and football operations background, a group that includes New Orleans’s Mickey Loomis, Buffalo’s Brandon Beane, and Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman. There are small sample sizes when you’re dealing with over a decade of hires in a 32-team league, but it’s important to point out that the data shows no real difference in winning percentage between GMs who came from a Super Bowl team and those who did not.
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Ah yes. As much as I'd like for it to be definitively true I think a 3 v 29 sample is a tough one.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:44 pmIt’s from this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/ ... d-mistakesThe Cooler King wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:18 pm
Do you have any backup for that claim? Recent history is that teams have almost exclusively gone the scouting route, but I'm curious about methodology.
The data showed that teams with GMs from scouting backgrounds won less than those with GMs who had a salary cap and football operations background, a group that includes New Orleans’s Mickey Loomis, Buffalo’s Brandon Beane, and Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman. There are small sample sizes when you’re dealing with over a decade of hires in a 32-team league, but it’s important to point out that the data shows no real difference in winning percentage between GMs who came from a Super Bowl team and those who did not.
What's maybe more true is non scouts have to do way more to work themselves into a GM role. But certainly the spirit of the article of not being blind to those types is a good one.
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Thanks for sharing the article Cooler King. It was the type of insight that makes me even more intrigued at the idea of Khan as the new GM and also made me question who might be the best "outside" hire not currently on any of the 32 teams. Good stuff.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:44 pmIt’s from this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2022/1/6/ ... d-mistakesThe Cooler King wrote: ↑Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:18 pm
Do you have any backup for that claim? Recent history is that teams have almost exclusively gone the scouting route, but I'm curious about methodology.
The data showed that teams with GMs from scouting backgrounds won less than those with GMs who had a salary cap and football operations background, a group that includes New Orleans’s Mickey Loomis, Buffalo’s Brandon Beane, and Philadelphia’s Howie Roseman. There are small sample sizes when you’re dealing with over a decade of hires in a 32-team league, but it’s important to point out that the data shows no real difference in winning percentage between GMs who came from a Super Bowl team and those who did not.
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Mike Sando and Mueller were on The Athletic Football podcast and raised the point that some owners don’t want a GM who knows more than them. So historically Ted kept the numbers and the scouting separate so he could still have control and value to the McCaskeys. With him being moved aside there could be a better chance that a numbers guy gets in there. It’s not crazy when you think of the greed and fragile egos involved.
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crueltyabc wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:03 pm Mike Sando and Mueller were on The Athletic Football podcast and raised the point that some owners don’t want a GM who knows more than them. So historically Ted kept the numbers and the scouting separate so he could still have control and value to the McCaskeys. With him being moved aside there could be a better chance that a numbers guy gets in there. It’s not crazy when you think of the greed and fragile egos involved.
During George's latest agonizing fiasco with the press, I thought Ted laid it on thick about the heavy lifting in this real estate transaction he's piloting when he said the "closing" was going to take the rest of the year which implies he is up to his ears in work.
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I mean it would make sense. Remember they're not just evaluating and planning for a football stadium. It is a 300+ acre development.pus wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmcrueltyabc wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:03 pm Mike Sando and Mueller were on The Athletic Football podcast and raised the point that some owners don’t want a GM who knows more than them. So historically Ted kept the numbers and the scouting separate so he could still have control and value to the McCaskeys. With him being moved aside there could be a better chance that a numbers guy gets in there. It’s not crazy when you think of the greed and fragile egos involved.
During George's latest agonizing fiasco with the press, I thought Ted laid it on thick about the heavy lifting in this real estate transaction he's piloting when he said the "closing" was going to take the rest of the year which implies he is up to his ears in work.
Context, it's an area bigger than the Chicago Loop
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Counterpoint: they’re fucking idiots who can’t get out of their own way. They could still meddle
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Sports Mockery claims Omar Kahn was interviewed, by the Bears, for a position similar to the football president of operations.
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Sports mockery is just going of what DBB said I think.
DBB was on a podcast today and basically explicitly reiterated they are talking to Khan about taking over for Philips. Which is surprising to me. But to be clear, that's not a football role. I mean even DBB said Phillips true role is "owner", something I tend to agree with based just on public observation.
Not saying President is necessarily harder to obtain than GM from a overall skill level, but pretty surprising for a guy who as far as I know is solely football ops related in Pitt. Usually guys end up on different tracks though there can be crossover occassionally.
DBB was on a podcast today and basically explicitly reiterated they are talking to Khan about taking over for Philips. Which is surprising to me. But to be clear, that's not a football role. I mean even DBB said Phillips true role is "owner", something I tend to agree with based just on public observation.
Not saying President is necessarily harder to obtain than GM from a overall skill level, but pretty surprising for a guy who as far as I know is solely football ops related in Pitt. Usually guys end up on different tracks though there can be crossover occassionally.
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Khan is their VP of football and business administration and DBB said Phillips wants a guy with more of a football background to replace him.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:17 pm Sports mockery is just going of what DBB said I think.
DBB was on a podcast today and basically explicitly reiterated they are talking to Khan about taking over for Philips. Which is surprising to me. But to be clear, that's not a football role. I mean even DBB said Phillips true role is "owner", something I tend to agree with based just on public observation.
Not saying President is necessarily harder to obtain than GM from a overall skill level, but pretty surprising for a guy who as far as I know is solely football ops related in Pitt. Usually guys end up on different tracks though there can be crossover occassionally.
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Unfortunately Pittsburgh doesn't give him a bio on their website. Similar titles from what I've seen do still tend to be pretty narrowly football and not business focused though. I'm not saying it's not valuable to be very knowledgeable about contracts in Phillips role, but if that and the salary cap is the extent of the business-y knowledge that seems pretty light, especially when the ownership group that hasn't ever run a business on their own in the life. Like someone like Wright in Washington as Pres doesn't blow me away, but the Snyders (legit complaints aside about culture) are legit businesspeople.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:00 pmKhan is their VP of football and business administration and DBB said Phillips wants a guy with more of a football background to replace him.The Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:17 pm Sports mockery is just going of what DBB said I think.
DBB was on a podcast today and basically explicitly reiterated they are talking to Khan about taking over for Philips. Which is surprising to me. But to be clear, that's not a football role. I mean even DBB said Phillips true role is "owner", something I tend to agree with based just on public observation.
Not saying President is necessarily harder to obtain than GM from a overall skill level, but pretty surprising for a guy who as far as I know is solely football ops related in Pitt. Usually guys end up on different tracks though there can be crossover occassionally.
If there really is some goal of Khan as the leader, some sort of CEO/COO setup still seems like it makes more sense, with Khan as COO. I even thought the same when the Trace Armstrong rumors swirled. Like make him Pres and keep Phillips as CEO for at least a few years.
But maybe I'm under stating Khan/Armstrong or Phillips just has supreme confidence in the support team he's built on the biz side.
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The Bears website announcement listed him as that: https://www.chicagobears.com/news/bears ... anager-jobThe Cooler King wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:32 pmUnfortunately Pittsburgh doesn't give him a bio on their website. Similar titles from what I've seen do still tend to be pretty narrowly football and not business focused though. I'm not saying it's not valuable to be very knowledgeable about contracts in Phillips role, but if that and the salary cap is the extent of the business-y knowledge that seems pretty light, especially when the ownership group that hasn't ever run a business on their own in the life. Like someone like Wright in Washington as Pres doesn't blow me away, but the Snyders (legit complaints aside about culture) are legit businesspeople.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:00 pm
Khan is their VP of football and business administration and DBB said Phillips wants a guy with more of a football background to replace him.
If there really is some goal of Khan as the leader, some sort of CEO/COO setup still seems like it makes more sense, with Khan as COO. I even thought the same when the Trace Armstrong rumors swirled. Like make him Pres and keep Phillips as CEO for at least a few years.
But maybe I'm under stating Khan/Armstrong or Phillips just has supreme confidence in the support team he's built on the biz side.
I also believe he’s got a business administration background from college.
I think you’re also over estimating the requirements it would take to effectively replace Ted Phillips.
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When I say bio, I mean explaining what some of the intracies of his job. Having looked around at a lot of president or equivalent bios on different NFL team sites and they usually read quite a bit differently than that of "football administration roles". Not to say it's rocket science, but people tend to come from that business background.
A sampling of some different President type roles. Lot of people will deep experience in stadiums, revenue generating roles like sponsorship and ticketing. Marketing, legal, accounting. Not football admin. My assumption is Omar doesn't bring any experience in these types of areas.
https://www.chiefs.com/team/front-offic ... -donovan-1
https://www.jaguars.com/team/front-offi ... rk-lamping
https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/front- ... ymie-elhai
https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team ... -smolenski
https://www.tennesseetitans.com/team/fr ... rke-nihill
I can only think of one current Football ops to Pres/CEO crossover and that's Rich McKay in ATL. But he was always a business type if GM, having not worked in a football ops role prior to being Buccs GM, and had a law career. If Omar has always been named as kind of a GM track, a swap straight to President (of an org with weak business ownership) seems suspect.
A sampling of some different President type roles. Lot of people will deep experience in stadiums, revenue generating roles like sponsorship and ticketing. Marketing, legal, accounting. Not football admin. My assumption is Omar doesn't bring any experience in these types of areas.
https://www.chiefs.com/team/front-offic ... -donovan-1
https://www.jaguars.com/team/front-offi ... rk-lamping
https://www.newyorkjets.com/team/front- ... ymie-elhai
https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team ... -smolenski
https://www.tennesseetitans.com/team/fr ... rke-nihill
I can only think of one current Football ops to Pres/CEO crossover and that's Rich McKay in ATL. But he was always a business type if GM, having not worked in a football ops role prior to being Buccs GM, and had a law career. If Omar has always been named as kind of a GM track, a swap straight to President (of an org with weak business ownership) seems suspect.