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dplank
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I’ve noticed Spain is still starting for Cincinatti, one of the better offenses in the league. We played Lachavious Simmons and Arlington Hambright but didn’t pick up Spain when he was cut by Buffalo mid last year.

Pace was aggressive but not when it came to the OL. He should’ve picked him up, our OL has been far below average for too long. It would’ve cost very little.

I want our next GM to value and prioritize the OL position. Need to be 8 deep at that position!
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It's really weird how complacent they were about terrible players on OL (Cowhard, Simmons)
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that is a bears trait. they mismanaged the line with cutler, tubisky and now fields. they get a few players and then scrubs. i would draft a lineman within the first 3 rounds of every draft for eternity. Build the lines!!
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Well I never been to Spain but I kind of like the music.

Saddest thing from Cutler on is we’ve never prioritized OL. Many other issues too over years but lot of duct tape and bubble gum in our approach.
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Winning starts from the ball outwards. QB. OL. DL. Then work to the outside from there. One of Jerry Angelo's strengths is that I felt he understood that.

Both Nagy and Pace focused on the Razzle Dazzle aspects of football and it ultimately led to their downfall.

There was no respect for the running game.

The OL wasn't taken seriously until this most recent draft and I think Pace only did it because he drafted Fields. I'm not trying to shit on Jenkins or Borom, but it was too little too late. I'm talking big money FAs.

It's not like the OL was a problem just this year.

There were never signings of elite OL talent during Pace's tenure that I can remember and I attribute that to two things:

1) Pace came from the Saints. They had Drew Brees and it skewed Pace's thought process of how an offense is built. Not every offense can have a HOF QB at the head of it. This is exactly why people from teams with elite QBs should not be hired. That QB masks a lot of shortcomings.

2) There's no sex appeal in signing elite OL. The average Joe From Oak Park doesn't get hyped when you sign 2 elite OL even though that is the most transformational thing you can do for an offense. You sign an ARob from Jacksonville and people get excited. Trade up to draft a QB and people get excited.

But to your point, clearly 100% yes, the best thing that could happen this offseason is that we add 2 high performing guys to the OL.
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Agree guys. The other thing that frustrates me is the “but we already have Whitehair and Daniels” thinkers. News flash, they suck. Our interior line sucked and Mustipher wasn’t the only reason. Plus, guys get hurt. We played our OT 5/6 a bunch this year. You just have to be 8 deep and you have to have some ELITE talent to anchor and scheme your unit around. We have neither. The only one with elite ability is Jenkins and it’s a crap shoot if he’ll a) develop into an elite player and b) stay healthy. So you can’t sit on your hands when guys like Spain are available for next to nothing!! It was like a Cassius Marsh level signing FFS!
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BearsFanInMN wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:40 pm Well I never been to Spain but I kind of like the music.

Saddest thing from Cutler on is we’ve never prioritized OL. Many other issues too over years but lot of duct tape and bubble gum in our approach.
If Cutler would have had a top 10 OL, the Bears would have made the playoffs a lot more often than they did. Seemed Cutty was running for his life most of his career in Chicago.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:41 am
BearsFanInMN wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:40 pm Well I never been to Spain but I kind of like the music.

Saddest thing from Cutler on is we’ve never prioritized OL. Many other issues too over years but lot of duct tape and bubble gum in our approach.
If Cutler would have had a top 10 OL, the Bears would have made the playoffs a lot more often than they did. Seemed Cutty was running for his life most of his career in Chicago.
Yep.
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G08 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:51 am
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:41 am

If Cutler would have had a top 10 OL, the Bears would have made the playoffs a lot more often than they did. Seemed Cutty was running for his life most of his career in Chicago.
Yep.
Agreed.

Then add that moron Martz and his seven step drops.
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We all saw it with Cutty, but Bears. I agree with whoever said this in another thread, but this shit IS NOT THAT DAMN COMPLICATED. George is a MORON. I kind of like him for some strange reason, but he is beyond inept. And I'm hopeful that he just stumbles into the right GM this time - it's our best hope. Focus on a GM that looks to build a team inside out, doesn't overpay for flashy position players and let's them go, but is aggressive in both draft and FA to constantly fill the OL/DL with talent - EVEN WHEN WE SEEM TO HAVE MIDDLING STARTERS IN PLACE.

This doesn't mean overpaying guys who play at the LOS either. Guys like Whitehair, Daniels, Goldman - buh bye! They cost (or will cost) far too much money relative to their ability. I'd rather have BOTH Blackson/Edwards than Goldman. When their cost starts to outrun their value, MOVE ON. Pittsburgh and New England have been great at this historically, emulate that. Instead, keep adding draft capital and use that capital to replenish. And be goddamn opportunistic when low cost players mysteriously become available who can play, like Spain last year. Even if you see him as a backup G, he was EASILY worth it. Keep your powder dry so that when a HOF LT like Trent Williams becomes available, you're answer isn't "Well, we have Charles Leno and we don't want to overspend at this position group". Jebus H Christ on a popsicle stick. Pay the HOF LT and ANCHOR YOUR LINE. Then dump Leno/Massie next year - like we did anyways! Aaaargh.

Imagine our OL right now having Williams LT, Jenkins RT, Borom swing T? Spain at LG, Whitehair at either C or RG? Think we might be pretty good up front with that? We could have. But Bears. Nope, Williams is enjoying some playoff football with the Niners. Spain is enjoying some playoff football with Cincy. We are giving up 7 sacks against a Vikings team that looked to have quit on their coach, and starting a geriatric at LT who won't be on our team next season, while sitting our promising rookie. DA FUCKING BEARS. Overpaying mediocre talent then considering themselves "set". I fucking hate them.
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Not trying to be a Pace apologist, as the last 4 years have shown him to fall short, but he did come into town looking at an empty cupboard. He was stuck with Cutty and Fox and knew he would start 2017 with a new QB. His mantra all along has been QB is the most important position in sports. In 2017 he had Leno-Massie at either side and Whitehair in the middle. He was lucky to get Sitton, a retread from the Pukers, but not so lucky with Long as he started his bad injury luck that season. Fox was forced to play an unprepared Mitch with Dowell Loggains "leading" him. Pace also gave up draft capital to get Mitch. The starting skill players on that team? Josh Bellamy, Kendall Wright, Dion Sims and Adam Shaheen, with an LB corps of Acho, Jones, Treviathan, Floyd.

For 2018 Fox was replaced by offensive guru Nagy, gave up considerable draft capital for Mack, paid big $$ for ARob and picked his last "elite" OL in Daniels. The Fangio-led D carried the team to Club Dub and it was one and done in the playoffs. Since then he did find Monty for the team but could not find any WR's better then middling besides getting lucky with Mooney. Nagy misused the OL and forced his scheme on the O rather that tailoring the O to the talent. He turned out to be a former frustrated QB who would project what he wished how a QB should play rather than playing within their strengths.

To answer the two points below:
1) Pace was in a hurry to have a great QB but never could figure out how to get there. Then again the history of the Bears shows that to be a chronic condition.
2) New Orleans had Sean Payton who could spot and develop OL talent, as well as scheme to their strengths. Nagy and crew were clueless, and apparently Pace was more worried about QB than protection.

Unless Jenkins-Borom are both well above average, the Bears will continue to struggle at OL for the next few seasons and Fields will continue to get banged up. Many other teams are looking for OL help and have a bigger warchest to pay from. Not a good scenario for the next GM-HC to step into.

The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:46 am Winning starts from the ball outwards. QB. OL. DL. Then work to the outside from there. One of Jerry Angelo's strengths is that I felt he understood that.

Both Nagy and Pace focused on the Razzle Dazzle aspects of football and it ultimately led to their downfall.

There was no respect for the running game.

The OL wasn't taken seriously until this most recent draft and I think Pace only did it because he drafted Fields. I'm not trying to shit on Jenkins or Borom, but it was too little too late. I'm talking big money FAs.

It's not like the OL was a problem just this year.

There were never signings of elite OL talent during Pace's tenure that I can remember and I attribute that to two things:

1) Pace came from the Saints. They had Drew Brees and it skewed Pace's thought process of how an offense is built. Not every offense can have a HOF QB at the head of it. This is exactly why people from teams with elite QBs should not be hired. That QB masks a lot of shortcomings.

2) There's no sex appeal in signing elite OL. The average Joe From Oak Park doesn't get hyped when you sign 2 elite OL even though that is the most transformational thing you can do for an offense. You sign an ARob from Jacksonville and people get excited. Trade up to draft a QB and people get excited.

But to your point, clearly 100% yes, the best thing that could happen this offseason is that we add 2 high performing guys to the OL.
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I feel like you're kind of all over the place.

Williams enjoying playoff football with SF. Okay. They have a pretty good line.

Spain enjoying playoff football with Cincy. They have a pretty bad line.

Patriots are fwiw historically not super line invested team. Not a lot of draft capital and never really prioritized superstars and big spending on line either. I guess they go for that 8 deep example which does generally agree with my OLine building philosophy. But I don't think theyce ever paid for a Williams type for example.

I think the Bears biggest issue is C. Borom/Jenkins have some bust potential, but I feel it will be worth the risk and just get a decent swing T. Whitehair is okay, but certainly overpaid based on his recent play. Just a matter if you can replace his play cheaply in FA. I think it's possible, but theyll kind of have to play it by ear. I wouldn't mind a cheap vet/day 3 pick/ Bars competition at one G spot, but I don't think you can do it at both. If not Daniels, another FA, but they should be prioritizing youth in FA as much as possible. Daniels is a promising OL still IMO. Remembering the goal is to pay for future value bit past value, he's an attractive FA option. Though there will be others.

Unfortunately you have limited line spots to develop guys. Prob will have 9 on your 53, so if they expectation is going 8 deep you only really have 1 spot to try and develop any of those good value finds. So that 7/8 spot will always be a complicated balance between experience/reliability and development.
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The Cooler King wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:16 pm I feel like you're kind of all over the place.

Williams enjoying playoff football with SF. Okay. They have a pretty good line.

Spain enjoying playoff football with Cincy. They have a pretty bad line.

Patriots are fwiw historically not super line invested team. Not a lot of draft capital and never really prioritized superstars and big spending on line either. I guess they go for that 8 deep example which does generally agree with my OLine building philosophy. But I don't think theyce ever paid for a Williams type for example.

I think the Bears biggest issue is C. Borom/Jenkins have some bust potential, but I feel it will be worth the risk and just get a decent swing T. Whitehair is okay, but certainly overpaid based on his recent play. Just a matter if you can replace his play cheaply in FA. I think it's possible, but theyll kind of have to play it by ear. I wouldn't mind a cheap vet/day 3 pick/ Bars competition at one G spot, but I don't think you can do it at both. If not Daniels, another FA, but they should be prioritizing youth in FA as much as possible. Daniels is a promising OL still IMO. Remembering the goal is to pay for future value bit past value, he's an attractive FA option. Though there will be others.

Unfortunately you have limited line spots to develop guys. Prob will have 9 on your 53, so if they expectation is going 8 deep you only really have 1 spot to try and develop any of those good value finds. So that 7/8 spot will always be a complicated balance between experience/reliability and development.
Better than what I could have posted

Though in fairness - Absolutely NO ONE drove the Trent Williams train harder than Dplank

And Trent has been THE GOODs in SF
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dplank wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 am We all saw it with Cutty, but Bears. I agree with whoever said this in another thread, but this shit IS NOT THAT DAMN COMPLICATED. George is a MORON. I kind of like him for some strange reason, but he is beyond inept. And I'm hopeful that he just stumbles into the right GM this time - it's our best hope. Focus on a GM that looks to build a team inside out, doesn't overpay for flashy position players and let's them go, but is aggressive in both draft and FA to constantly fill the OL/DL with talent - EVEN WHEN WE SEEM TO HAVE MIDDLING STARTERS IN PLACE.

This doesn't mean overpaying guys who play at the LOS either. Guys like Whitehair, Daniels, Goldman - buh bye! They cost (or will cost) far too much money relative to their ability. I'd rather have BOTH Blackson/Edwards than Goldman. When their cost starts to outrun their value, MOVE ON. Pittsburgh and New England have been great at this historically, emulate that. Instead, keep adding draft capital and use that capital to replenish. And be goddamn opportunistic when low cost players mysteriously become available who can play, like Spain last year. Even if you see him as a backup G, he was EASILY worth it. Keep your powder dry so that when a HOF LT like Trent Williams becomes available, you're answer isn't "Well, we have Charles Leno and we don't want to overspend at this position group". Jebus H Christ on a popsicle stick. Pay the HOF LT and ANCHOR YOUR LINE. Then dump Leno/Massie next year - like we did anyways! Aaaargh.

Imagine our OL right now having Williams LT, Jenkins RT, Borom swing T? Spain at LG, Whitehair at either C or RG? Think we might be pretty good up front with that? We could have. But Bears. Nope, Williams is enjoying some playoff football with the Niners. Spain is enjoying some playoff football with Cincy. We are giving up 7 sacks against a Vikings team that looked to have quit on their coach, and starting a geriatric at LT who won't be on our team next season, while sitting our promising rookie. DA FUCKING BEARS. Overpaying mediocre talent then considering themselves "set". I fucking hate them.
Pretty well agree. When it comes to football, whether I personally like someone is irrelevant. (See Nagy, Matt.) They're running my Bears, not moving in next door. If they are helping my team win, then I like them, even if they have a personality like Belicheck.

One thing your analysis didn't point out is that we were a bit cash strapped the last couple years, so Pace didn't have the flexibility to make many moves as you suggested with Spain.

To support your point, just look at Green Bay. They have played all year with multiple injuries on the OL, yet Rodgers isn't getting killed. And they have an all-pro LT getting healthy just in time for big playoff games. Last year, their pro bowl C took the $$$ and ran, but they just replenished and didn't fall off. No matter how much you hate them, they nearly always seem to manage at least decent OL play.
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Mikefive wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:06 am
dplank wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 am We all saw it with Cutty, but Bears. I agree with whoever said this in another thread, but this shit IS NOT THAT DAMN COMPLICATED. George is a MORON. I kind of like him for some strange reason, but he is beyond inept. And I'm hopeful that he just stumbles into the right GM this time - it's our best hope. Focus on a GM that looks to build a team inside out, doesn't overpay for flashy position players and let's them go, but is aggressive in both draft and FA to constantly fill the OL/DL with talent - EVEN WHEN WE SEEM TO HAVE MIDDLING STARTERS IN PLACE.

This doesn't mean overpaying guys who play at the LOS either. Guys like Whitehair, Daniels, Goldman - buh bye! They cost (or will cost) far too much money relative to their ability. I'd rather have BOTH Blackson/Edwards than Goldman. When their cost starts to outrun their value, MOVE ON. Pittsburgh and New England have been great at this historically, emulate that. Instead, keep adding draft capital and use that capital to replenish. And be goddamn opportunistic when low cost players mysteriously become available who can play, like Spain last year. Even if you see him as a backup G, he was EASILY worth it. Keep your powder dry so that when a HOF LT like Trent Williams becomes available, you're answer isn't "Well, we have Charles Leno and we don't want to overspend at this position group". Jebus H Christ on a popsicle stick. Pay the HOF LT and ANCHOR YOUR LINE. Then dump Leno/Massie next year - like we did anyways! Aaaargh.

Imagine our OL right now having Williams LT, Jenkins RT, Borom swing T? Spain at LG, Whitehair at either C or RG? Think we might be pretty good up front with that? We could have. But Bears. Nope, Williams is enjoying some playoff football with the Niners. Spain is enjoying some playoff football with Cincy. We are giving up 7 sacks against a Vikings team that looked to have quit on their coach, and starting a geriatric at LT who won't be on our team next season, while sitting our promising rookie. DA FUCKING BEARS. Overpaying mediocre talent then considering themselves "set". I fucking hate them.
Pretty well agree. When it comes to football, whether I personally like someone is irrelevant. (See Nagy, Matt.) They're running my Bears, not moving in next door. If they are helping my team win, then I like them, even if they have a personality like Belicheck.

One thing your analysis didn't point out is that we were a bit cash strapped the last couple years, so Pace didn't have the flexibility to make many moves as you suggested with Spain.

To support your point, just look at Green Bay. They have played all year with multiple injuries on the OL, yet Rodgers isn't getting killed. And they have an all-pro LT getting healthy just in time for big playoff games. Last year, their pro bowl C took the $$$ and ran, but they just replenished and didn't fall off. No matter how much you hate them, they nearly always seem to manage at least decent OL play.

Most of that is Rodgers in fairness

The athletic (I think?) had a great break down of when they played the Rams - Aaron Donald beat his man instantly on more than 1 occasion and didn't even get a hit on Rodgers

It wasn't like they were coached to let Donald through - Rodgers was just that fast

And if we are doing the counter factual were we have Trent Williams - Dont trade up to get Jenkins - Just pick Creed Humphrey
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@ cooler - I suppose my rambling post could have been simplified. Quenton Spain is not an all pro G, but he's pretty decent and has been a starter on two high functioning offenses in Buffalo and Cincy. He was available for almost nothing last year, while we sported guys like Arlington Hambright and Lachavious Simmons. Pace should have snapped him up. He's still starting with Cincy and on a 1.1M contract - again, we should have him here for that. Is he great? No. Is his value far exceeding his cost? Yes. Is he significantly better than the likes of Rashad Coward, Hambright, and Simmons? Yes. Pace has done really well finding gems on the DL, guys like Blackson, Edwards, even lower end guys like Urban - guys that could play relative to their value. But he didn't do the same on the OL, he drafted turds very late (or UDFA) and rode them instead of nabbing guys like Spain when they are sitting right there to be had. There's 8-9 spots for OL, you need to develop some guys, but you failed to note the practice squad which is where that should happen, so you have more than 9 spots to play with. And when injuries strike, you have guys like Spain filling in and not guys like Simmons (who should never see another football field in his lifetime).

Trent Williams was a different deal all together. A HOF LT, at age 30, was available because he had a falling out with mgmt in dysfunctional DC. We had two mid level guys on our roster in Leno and Massie, neither at that point were performing particularly well. Williams was coming off an injury, his price was never going to be lower - it was a PERFECT opportunity to strike and get an anchor for your OL, but we passed and instead settled for the mediocre (at best) guys we had in place. Fans went along with it, foolishly citing the fact that we'd be overspending at that particular position for 1 friggin year - 1 FRIGGIN YEAR! We ended up dumping those two turds the next offseason as projected, and had gaping holes to fill. Meanwhile, Pace had no problem at all overspending at the edge rush position that same off season - he signed Quinn to a huge deal despite having Mack. So it was all about which position group he valued - it wasn't about cap management. Trent Williams goes on to sign a 1 year prove it deal in SF (a smart team who valued OL play), then signs a huge deal this past off season which he will be worth every damn penny - age is not an issue there.

What does Pace do? He panicks and trades up for an injured T in the draft instead of, as Rich correctly points out, staying home and drafting Creed. He wouldn't have had to do that had he decided to get Williams when he should have. Imagine having Williams, Whitehair, Creed, Daniels, Borom heading into next year! Think that might work out?

Sign guys like Spain INSTEAD OF guys like Attachou, for example. Sign Trent Williams INSTEAD OF Robert Quinn. Improve your OL depth before improving your LB depth, and let some UDFA like Snowden get PT if injuries happen at OLB. Don't ever put yourself in a position where Pig Simmons it playing RT for your you, not ever. And you can avoid that if you choose to spend here instead of other places. This is what I mean when I say "value the position", it's choosing to spend more here than elsewhere. Once your set then fine, go ahead and pivot, but don't stop until your OL is top shelf.

So the lengthy point I keep making, is that Pace CHOSE where to overspend his cap money and he CHOSE not to overspend on OL throughout his entire 7 year tenure. He went D even though it's an O league. And all I want from our next GM is to be one who understands the value of OL play moreso than Pace did. It was Angelo's undoing as well IMO, who otherwise was good. It's not just that Pace failed at one of these things (spending for better depth, splash spending for difference makers), it's that he failed at both of them - every year. OL was an after thought it seemed and took a back seat to every other position group. Those days must end.
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That post makes more sense. Though I disagree with aspects of assumptions and conclusions.

Also, probably drop Patriots from your example list. That doesn't sound like how they've treated the OL during Belichicks reign. I tried finding my old post, but maybe it was of CBFans and is lost to history. But Patriots have not invested big in either cap or draft capital for the line fwiw.
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Yea I know. The point is you do what you need to do to have a top tier OL - whatever it takes. If you can do that without over spending then great. There’s a lot of factors, having a Brady or Rodgers changes your plan dramatically. We don’t have one of those, so we may need to overspend. Point is, you focus on it maniacally, at the expense of other position groups if necessary.
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Trying to find an old article I read about aging curves and came across this one I hadn't seen before.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-investigat ... th-pff-war

There are actually some components of your argument that are supported in this article, but a few key areas I'd highlight on the age issue.

1. While OL may tend to age more gracefully than other groups, the age decline post age 30 is still extremely relevant. Trent didn't fall of a cliff, but in a macro analysis we can still pretty comfortably say big investments in post 30 players is a bad process and risky. Bringing up Quinn and I'd agree it's the same issue. (though you seemed to gloss over the trade capital too with Trent)
2. Survivorship bias. I think the article does a good job explaining the issue of survivorship bias, but I do think it's particularly relevant for OL. With 5 OL spots there are more survivors and cloud our judgment that players playing well into their 30s is more normal than it is.

But pretty consistently fans tend to latch to a guy like Jason Peters or Andrew Whitworth as an example, but it's just survivorship bias clouding our judgment. But on a macro level, analysis after analysis finds great reduction in performance from age. It absolutely was a factor with Williams. It obviously worked out, but it was absolutely a relevant factor in any decision.
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dplank wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:57 pm Yea I know. The point is you do what you need to do to have a top tier OL - whatever it takes. If you can do that without over spending then great. There’s a lot of factors, having a Brady or Rodgers changes your plan dramatically. We don’t have one of those, so we may need to overspend. Point is, you focus on it maniacally, at the expense of other position groups if necessary.
Big disagree here.
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QB - Priority 1
OL - Priority 2
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There is probably some truth to the innatr value of the trenches in football strategy, and pre FA/salary cap it was probably a pretty decent strategy to build out from the trenches. But in a market economy with efficiency as a concern, and perhaps related to the fact that so many still prioritize that innateness without regards to the market, OL is at an even playing field with any other spot.

So when we walk about maniacly addressing the line I see zero regard for the market. Big mistake IMO.
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The Cooler King wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:14 pm There is probably some truth to the innatr value of the trenches in football strategy, and pre FA/salary cap it was probably a pretty decent strategy to build out from the trenches. But in a market economy with efficiency as a concern, and perhaps related to the fact that so many still prioritize that innateness without regards to the market, OL is at an even playing field with any other spot.

So when we walk about maniacly addressing the line I see zero regard for the market. Big mistake IMO.
You're arguing language/semantics. I'm not in favor of that. I can see your inner accountant surfacing here, not every word needs to be parsed literally! Sometimes just used for effect, and I'm as high as Towlie on South Park right now!
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The Cooler King
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dplank wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:26 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:14 pm There is probably some truth to the innatr value of the trenches in football strategy, and pre FA/salary cap it was probably a pretty decent strategy to build out from the trenches. But in a market economy with efficiency as a concern, and perhaps related to the fact that so many still prioritize that innateness without regards to the market, OL is at an even playing field with any other spot.

So when we walk about maniacly addressing the line I see zero regard for the market. Big mistake IMO.
You're arguing language/semantics. I'm not in favor of that. I can see your inner accountant surfacing here, not every word needs to be parsed literally! Sometimes just used for effect, and I'm as high as Towlie on South Park right now!
Hey I love figurative language, but maniacally above all others seems pretty clear. Even not literally it's still clearly a line-first philosophy, right?

That's bad IMO.
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dplank
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The Cooler King wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:52 pm
dplank wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:26 pm

You're arguing language/semantics. I'm not in favor of that. I can see your inner accountant surfacing here, not every word needs to be parsed literally! Sometimes just used for effect, and I'm as high as Towlie on South Park right now!
Hey I love figurative language, but maniacally above all others seems pretty clear. Even not literally it's still clearly a line-first philosophy, right?

That's bad IMO.
Line second philosophy, QB trumps all and frankly that should go without saying assuming your speaking with intelligent people.
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dplank
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9 sacks on Burrow doesn’t exactly bolster my Spain take 😂
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The Cooler King
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dplank wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:38 pm 9 sacks on Burrow doesn’t exactly bolster my Spain take 😂
It's okay, sacks are mostly a QB stat. :wink:
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dplank wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 6:55 pm
The Cooler King wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:52 pm

Hey I love figurative language, but maniacally above all others seems pretty clear. Even not literally it's still clearly a line-first philosophy, right?

That's bad IMO.
Line second philosophy, QB trumps all and frankly that should go without saying assuming your speaking with intelligent people.
I'd put Pass Rush in there as well

I would note OL is a big priority generally - but you can't discount the cost of finding the player/keeping them - Tackles matter (and maybe we got that right this last time?)

Guards grow on trees
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Saw this comment and feels relevant to the discussion. Pretty funny.
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It's pretty impressive how bad the Bengals OL is, yet how successful the offense is overall.
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