Bears WR discussion

[IE]

4.46 speead is not great for a NFL receiver, it is very average. I get it, you think Pringle will devlop into a Pro Bowl WR at 29 years old when the season starts, I don.'t. Just leave it as a difference of opinion and move on. There is nothing disengenious about it, just history in the NFL that very few WRs get better at 29 year old.

I get it too - you'll completely fabricate what someone else said to try to appear to win an argument. Why on Earth would you spend time making up shit & lying about what some other person said about Byron Pringle? I mean it is laughable. Move on indeed.

[Z Bear]

The Bears need a difference maker at WR to keep running lanes open, based on his career so far that is not Pringle. It is not Mooney, it is not Kmet. The Bears currently have no one on the roster that scares opposing secondaries. It does not makes sense to me to sign a vertern WR to a decent sized contract for multiple years that has not had a particually good career and is 28 yeas old (turns 29 early in the season). I like the upside of the speed of Jakeem Grant or the shiftyness is tight spaces of Newsome to be a 3rd receiver over Pringle. I would rather take fliers on a couple guys in the draft than sign a very average WR to pair with Mooney and Kmet.

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

Does anyone think we should bring back Byrd or Grant?
I thought their speed was useful and Byrd made some incredible catches.

We definitely need a WR1- Devante Adams may be a free agent, Calvin Ridley may be available and healthy. What about drafting Fields favourite WR Chris Olave?

[UOK]

Does anyone think we should bring back Byrd or Grant?
I thought their speed was useful and Byrd made some incredible catches.

We definitely need a WR1- Devante Adams may be a free agent, Calvin Ridley may be available and healthy. What about drafting Fields favourite WR Chris Olave?

I think Grant will be back for the ST factor. The Bears had a lot of speed at WR last year and it got them nowhere. They need size and athleticism from the WR position, in addition to students of the game who can dominate a route tree and breathe a scheme. That said, a lot of it will come down to the OC hire and if they're a Nagy-ite.

[The Cooler King]

The Bears need a difference maker at WR to keep running lanes open, based on his career so far that is not Pringle. It is not Mooney, it is not Kmet. The Bears currently have no one on the roster that scares opposing secondaries. It does not makes sense to me to sign a vertern WR to a decent sized contract for multiple years that has not had a particually good career and is 28 yeas old (turns 29 early in the season). I like the upside of the speed of Jakeem Grant or the shiftyness is tight spaces of Newsome to be a 3rd receiver over Pringle. I would rather take fliers on a couple guys in the draft than sign a very average WR to pair with Mooney and Kmet.

I agree I don't see much upside on Pringle. And in an ideal world I agree about getting a difference maker at WR, working with what they have available, I think the Bears might need to be realistic with an upside play as an option. The WR market just has some weirdness to it, and they're gonna have to prioritize what they wanna do where.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I think Grant will be back for the ST factor. The Bears had a lot of speed at WR last year and it got them nowhere. They need size and athleticism from the WR position, in addition to students of the game who can dominate a route tree and breathe a scheme. That said, a lot of it will come down to the OC hire and if they're a Nagy-ite.

Yeah, Nagy's 'scheme' was so bad it didn't matter what type of receivers the Bears had. Speed is only really useful if you hit a guy in stride and/or in space or can connect with him over the top. How often did we lament Nagy's plays seemingly consisting of curls and hitches and little else and wonder why on the rare occasion a player like Grant took a short pass in stride across the middle and turned it upfield for a big play the Bears didn't do things like that more often?

Hopefully Eberflus and his new OC will have receivers running slants and crossers, attack the seams with the TEs and run route combinations that challenge the defense at different levels. It was ridiculous how often I saw all the Bears receivers run straight upfield with their backs to the QB and then all break at the same depth. If the defense got any degree of early pressure the QB had no outlet to throw the ball to and those in coverage could just sit back in zone all day without being threatened. Lord help us if the next OC is a 'Nagy-ite'. That's a synonym for incompetence.

Ultimately the team needs WRs because they only have a couple under contract, but the scheme and play caller will make a bigger difference next season (perhaps even more so than the protection afforded to Fields).

The Bears aren't in a position to land top receivers so the focus needs to be on putting together a solid group that can provide a foundation to build on in subsequent seasons. The free agent profile should therefore be young players with a degree of production who might not yet have reached their ceiling and should at least live up to the contract they're given. These are the sort of guys who might be buried on teams with a lot of depth at the position or who may have been hampered by playing on a team with poor offensive or QB play.

From what we're hearing about Eberflus so far, he's not the sort of guy who will let his receivers get away with shirking their blocking responsibilities either. Hearing the commentators raving about Cooper Kupp's blocking prowess during the Rams/Bucs game, despite him being the leagues leading receiver in catches, yards and TDs, really contrasted with the lacklustre efforts from a certain (soon to be ex) Bear receiver.

[Yogi da Bear]

I certainly hope we get Grant back. Love that guy. So exciting. We call him the Bearphin. lol

Also, with Justin, I don't know why shouldn't be able to attract the higher tiered WRs if that's the direction we wanted to go.

[Moriarty]

The Bears aren't in a position to land top receivers so the focus needs to be on putting together a solid group that can provide a foundation to build on in subsequent seasons. The free agent profile should therefore be young players with a degree of production who might not yet have reached their ceiling and should at least live up to the contract they're given. These are the sort of guys who might be buried on teams with a lot of depth at the position or who may have been hampered by playing on a team with poor offensive or QB play.

Agreed

Also, with Justin, I don't know why shouldn't be able to attract the higher tiered WRs if that's the direction we wanted to go.

$$$

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Also, with Justin, I don't know why shouldn't be able to attract the higher tiered WRs if that's the direction we wanted to go.

$$$

And what has Fields actually done so far to attract higher tier WRs? It's all 'potential' at this point. He was one of the least successful, lowest rated QBs in the league last season. All things being equal dollar-wise, why would the better WRs want to come to Chicago over other teams with proven QBs? As a draw, Fields is currently way down the list. Hopefully one day he'll be near the top and players will be eager to join the Bears offense, but that isn't going to be this year.

[IE]

The Bears need a difference maker at WR to keep running lanes open, based on his career so far that is not Pringle. It is not Mooney, it is not Kmet. The Bears currently have no one on the roster that scares opposing secondaries. It does not makes sense to me to sign a vertern WR to a decent sized contract for multiple years that has not had a particually good career and is 28 yeas old (turns 29 early in the season). I like the upside of the speed of Jakeem Grant or the shiftyness is tight spaces of Newsome to be a 3rd receiver over Pringle. I would rather take fliers on a couple guys in the draft than sign a very average WR to pair with Mooney and Kmet.

I agree I don't see much upside on Pringle. And in an ideal world I agree about getting a difference maker at WR, working with what they have available, I think the Bears might need to be realistic with an upside play as an option. The WR market just has some weirdness to it, and they're gonna have to prioritize what they wanna do where.

This Bear Z guy absolutely cannot understand that suggesting a FA would be a good pickup given the real circumstances is not the same thing as expecting him to be a #1 WR.

To him, being realistic is using non-existent draft picks on uncertain potentially hypothetical contributors, and that will be JUST GREAT for JF1 versus signing a couple of pretty good affordable FAs. And Game 11 is "early in the season", because we want to make sure everyone knows we think 29 is materially different than 28 on a reliable bridge guy that we've developed a boner for because boy when we get into an argument we have to win no matter how disingenuous we need to be.

[Z Bear]

I completely understand, I just have a difference of opinion than you on Pringle. He is a downgrade to Allen Robinson and does not make the team better therefore it makes no sense to pay him $5M + per year when you can find similarly talented (probably more talented) guys on Day 2 of the draft and pay them much less money. You are going off an assumption that Pringle will continue to get better and I do not see it due to his age. I am sorry you do not like my opinion, but I do not like yours either. I could be wrong and Pringle turns out to be a potential All Star, I just do not see the logic of why singing him makes the Bears better. Our own Darnell Mooney was a 5th round pick and has been better than Pringle the moment he stepped onto the field.

[IE]

No - you clearly don't understand my opinion. Which is why over & over again you portray it falsely AND ignore reality AND throw all the shit you can against the wall hoping something sticks.
You're just arguing to argue. It's embarrassing. Stop.

[dplank]

I’m more a Pringles fan than Pringle fan

[The Cooler King]

I agree Pringle doesn't do much. I'm not sure you can bank on day 3 picks either, but even your Goodwin ans Byrds of the world on minimum contracts and a better scheme will probably be comparable. Enough of those small decisions and you've paid for a Kirk or Smith-Schuster.

Wilson has siginifantly more upside potential for me. Zay Jones is another.

[wab]

I think they'll make an offer to JuJu...

But the Bears are going to have to pick from guys with upside and potential that for whatever reason haven't proven themselves yet. Pringle, Tre'quan Smith, Russell Gage, James Washington, Noah Brown, Preston Williams, Jakobi Meters...those types.

What about having Jesper drop back down to 215 and move back to WR?

[IE]

I think they'll make an offer to JuJu...

But the Bears are going to have to pick from guys with upside and potential that for whatever reason haven't proven themselves yet. Pringle, Tre'quan Smith, Russell Gage, James Washington, Noah Brown, Preston Williams, Jakobi Meters...those types.

What about having Jesper drop back down to 215 and move back to WR?

I've read that Juju entertained an offer from KC last year and decided to go back to Pitt... but they're courting again.

I like Horsted bigger and stronger and more TE like. But he's not an Hback and blocking type. He can block but I wouldn't count on it like you would expect to be able to with in line TEs. He's a U and should be chip & go or running WR routes. As a WR in the red zone he seems like quite an asset where straight line speed isn't as important as being wiley and having great hands and some hops. I hope we find out soon. I hope it was Nagy's incompetence but there may be some route running flaws that negatively balance Horsted's hands. I just haven't seen it. I hope they give him a shot, and if he doesn't work out in a new regime I'll feel less frustration than I have.

[Hiphopopotamos]

4.46 speead is not great for a NFL receiver, it is very average. I get it, you think Pringle will devlop into a Pro Bowl WR at 29 years old when the season starts, I don.'t. Just leave it as a difference of opinion and move on. There is nothing disengenious about it, just history in the NFL that very few WRs get better at 29 year old.

People seem to have a real misconception about speed in the NFL. Most guys aren't running 4.4's. The best receiver in the NFL and the most deserving of MVP ran a 4.62.

These are the top 15 pass receivers in the NFL and their 40's:

Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Davante Adams - 4.56
Tyreek Hill - 4.29
Justin Jefferson - 4.43
Diontae Johnson - 4.53
Keenan Allen - 4.56
Jaylen Waddle - 4.37
Stefon Diggs - 4.46
Hunter Renfrow - 4.59
Chris Godwin - 4.42
DJ Moore - 4.42
Marquise Brown - 4.33
Brandin Cooks - 4.33
Amon-Ra St. Brown - 4.51
Michael Pittman Jr - 4.52

[dplank]

4.46 speead is not great for a NFL receiver, it is very average. I get it, you think Pringle will devlop into a Pro Bowl WR at 29 years old when the season starts, I don.'t. Just leave it as a difference of opinion and move on. There is nothing disengenious about it, just history in the NFL that very few WRs get better at 29 year old.

People seem to have a real misconception about speed in the NFL. Most guys aren't running 4.4's. The best receiver in the NFL and the most deserving of MVP ran a 4.62.

These are the top 15 pass receivers in the NFL and their 40's:

Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Davante Adams - 4.56
Tyreek Hill - 4.29
Justin Jefferson - 4.43
Diontae Johnson - 4.53
Keenan Allen - 4.56
Jaylen Waddle - 4.37
Stefon Diggs - 4.46
Hunter Renfrow - 4.59
Chris Godwin - 4.42
DJ Moore - 4.42
Marquise Brown - 4.33
Brandin Cooks - 4.33
Amon-Ra St. Brown - 4.51
Michael Pittman Jr - 4.52

This is really a great post thx, but how is Chase not on this list?

[IE]

I’m more a Pringles fan than Pringle fan

That's pretty funny. I do like Pringles. LOL

Seriously though... I mean all the guy has done was make the Chiefs as a UDFA, replace Watkins and outplay drafted guys like Robinson and Hardman. Half his catches are for first downs and he clearly can be on the same page as the QB. He only has 3 TDs in the playoffs this year on top of his paltry 5 during the season. And he might be able to be signed for a quarter the cost of ARob. Who needs ho-hum nobodies like that on the team when there are so many Byrds in the bush?

I'm just having some fun here. Because here's how we get to the point of silliness:
- I explain how I view the Bear WR situation and how a few of the less expensive pretty decent FA WR this year seem to make sense for the Bears.
- Someone else gets a hair up their ass over one guy and the likelihood of not getting a true #1 WR in '22 and exaggerates and misleads on what I said, suggesting I think Pringle is a #1 WR.
- Other people say "yeah - that guy isn't that good and certainly isn't a #1 WR"

The cool thing is the guy is playing so we get to watch him Sunday. I'm wondering when does he become good in people's minds... maybe 5 TDs in the playoffs? That would get him on a decent list. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... ayoffs.htm

[wab]

Where did anyone say he wasn’t good?

[Z Bear]

4.46 speead is not great for a NFL receiver, it is very average. I get it, you think Pringle will devlop into a Pro Bowl WR at 29 years old when the season starts, I don.'t. Just leave it as a difference of opinion and move on. There is nothing disengenious about it, just history in the NFL that very few WRs get better at 29 year old.

People seem to have a real misconception about speed in the NFL. Most guys aren't running 4.4's. The best receiver in the NFL and the most deserving of MVP ran a 4.62.

These are the top 15 pass receivers in the NFL and their 40's:

Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Davante Adams - 4.56
Tyreek Hill - 4.29
Justin Jefferson - 4.43
Diontae Johnson - 4.53
Keenan Allen - 4.56
Jaylen Waddle - 4.37
Stefon Diggs - 4.46
Hunter Renfrow - 4.59
Chris Godwin - 4.42
DJ Moore - 4.42
Marquise Brown - 4.33
Brandin Cooks - 4.33
Amon-Ra St. Brown - 4.51
Michael Pittman Jr - 4.52

7 of the list of 15 are below 4.46 and the median is exactly 4.46. Also, the average of all 15 is 4.46! How does that not support 4.46 is average for an NFL receiver? I do not think 40 times are indicative of what makes a top receiver, it was not me who brought it up.

[IE]

Where did anyone say he wasn’t good?

So you think a WR with no special traits and not particularly good production will al of a sudden blossom when he is at an age (28 years) where guys do not get better.... gotcha.

You mean here, where this guy said he wasn't good and managed to put words in my mouth in the same sentence? Who saves his energy for getting triggered over other people's mention of a gettable name or two - but doesn't have the guts to offer a realistic alternative himself? Oh... Grant and Dazz and a 2nd day draft pick will be GREAT for JF1. I mean seriously.

It's like Jon Lovitz' "The Liar" bit ... "...uh yeah...we'll DRAFT a WR who can start and deliver, and since we don't have a good enough pick we'll trade... um... Jimmy Graham! for a first rounder... or we'll get naked pictures of Devante Adams so he'll sign... yeah - that's the ticket! We'll FIND draft picks and we'll blackmail a #1 WR into joining!" But Byron Pringle SUCKS!

[Z Bear]

The Bears have enough money to go after Devante Adams if they want to so literally any free agent out there can be had. I would like to sign anyone that is as good or better than Mooney, that is not Pringle. I have said numerous times that he would be great at $2-3M a year but he is most likely going to be overpaid because of his recent prodcution you mention. It is pretty easy being the 4th option with Mahomes throwing you the ball and you never get double teamed, highly doubt he will produce when he is a featured WR. There is no reason to sign him at $5M+ per season unless you think he is an ascending player.

[crueltyabc]

Why are we talking about Pringle making $5m+? Are the cap sites predicting that? I think he'll make $2-4m like most of the other guys we're discussing... right? And further - Poles was in the building and knows exactly what Pringle is worth. Usually I'm ok with our armchair scouting but this time it's literally a guy that our GM scouted. Cmon

Btw having 1 or 2 bland but versatile guys would be helpful. There's nothing wrong with having league-average quality players at some positions while you try to draft better replacements. Other teams regularly stock their WR with average guys like Pringle and Wilson - just now ours. The fact that we need two this offseason is stupid.

Anyway I just noticed Smith on the list: He's not fast but I think Bears fans would like Tre'quan Smith because he's a plus blocker.

[IE]

Why are we talking about Pringle making $5m+? Are the cap sites predicting that? I think he'll make $2-4m like most of the other guys we're discussing... right? And further - Poles was in the building and knows exactly what Pringle is worth. Usually I'm ok with our armchair scouting but this time it's literally a guy that our GM scouted. Cmon

Btw having 1 or 2 bland but versatile guys would be helpful. There's nothing wrong with having league-average quality players at some positions while you try to draft better replacements. Other teams regularly stock their WR with average guys like Pringle and Wilson - just now ours. The fact that we need two this offseason is stupid.

Anyway I just noticed Smith on the list: He's not fast but I think Bears fans would like Tre'quan Smith because he's a plus blocker.

Well, you get it at least.

Smith has always sort of underperformed. Then even when the star went out he just didn't seem to make the most of things. But then it was noodle-armed Brees and then those other guys. So maybe there's something there.

And then just for fun ... "Pringle!"

[crueltyabc]

My wife is from NOLA and I lived there for a bit so I've watched lots of Tre Smith's career. He had a couple of critical drops and either Brees or Payton sorta lost trust in him for a little while but he doesn't actually have bad hands. Then Marquez Callaway came along and sorta outshined Smith. He's more dynamic with the ball in his hands and was the shiny new object so he got lots of attention. Juwan Johnson is the Saints version of Horsted but they had a coach who knows how to experiment with such things and he took some attention from Smith, too. I'm happy for him to come over to make $2.5m to get 60/500/3 and help block in 11 personnel.

[Hiphopopotamos]

People seem to have a real misconception about speed in the NFL. Most guys aren't running 4.4's. The best receiver in the NFL and the most deserving of MVP ran a 4.62.

These are the top 15 pass receivers in the NFL and their 40's:

Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Davante Adams - 4.56
Tyreek Hill - 4.29
Justin Jefferson - 4.43
Diontae Johnson - 4.53
Keenan Allen - 4.56
Jaylen Waddle - 4.37
Stefon Diggs - 4.46
Hunter Renfrow - 4.59
Chris Godwin - 4.42
DJ Moore - 4.42
Marquise Brown - 4.33
Brandin Cooks - 4.33
Amon-Ra St. Brown - 4.51
Michael Pittman Jr - 4.52

This is really a great post thx, but how is Chase not on this list?

Sorted by # of receptions - not yards. Chase is 18th in receptions among WR's.

[Yogi da Bear]

My free agent WR is still DJ Chark. He's 6'4" and ran a 4.34 coming out of LSU! He had a 1,000 plus yards in 2019. In 2020, slipped to only 700 yards and Urban Meyer called him out for playing "small." Chark took it to heart and hit the weight room, something he hadn't been doing as a pro. He gained seven pounds of muscle and Meyer was happy. Chark said he got even faster. With a rookie QB in his first four games he had 154 yards on only seven catches, that's good for 22 yards a catch, and had 2 TDs (again, that's in 7 catches!). Then he busted his ankle and missed the rest of the season.

This is the mid tiered free agent WR with the most upside. He absolutely could be a #1 receiver. And if we signed him to a four year mid tiered contract, we could end up with a #1 WR at value. His long ball threat would be ideal for Justin.

[IE]

My free agent WR is still DJ Chark. He's 6'4" and ran a 4.34 coming out of LSU! He had a 1,000 plus yards in 2019. In 2020, slipped to only 700 yards and Urban Meyer called him out for playing "small." Chark took it to heart and hit the weight room, something he hadn't been doing as a pro. He gained seven pounds of muscle and Meyer was happy. Chark said he got even faster. With a rookie QB in his first four games he had 154 yards on only seven catches, that's good for 22 yards a catch, and had 2 TDs (again, that's in 7 catches!). Then he busted his ankle and missed the rest of the season.

This is the mid tiered free agent WR with the most upside. He absolutely could be a #1 receiver. And if we signed him to a four year mid tiered contract, we could end up with a #1 WR at value. His long ball threat would be ideal for Justin.

I've always liked Chark. He'd be a good pickup if he's healthy.

[Arkansasbear]

My free agent WR is still DJ Chark. He's 6'4" and ran a 4.34 coming out of LSU! He had a 1,000 plus yards in 2019. In 2020, slipped to only 700 yards and Urban Meyer called him out for playing "small." Chark took it to heart and hit the weight room, something he hadn't been doing as a pro. He gained seven pounds of muscle and Meyer was happy. Chark said he got even faster. With a rookie QB in his first four games he had 154 yards on only seven catches, that's good for 22 yards a catch, and had 2 TDs (again, that's in 7 catches!). Then he busted his ankle and missed the rest of the season.

This is the mid tiered free agent WR with the most upside. He absolutely could be a #1 receiver. And if we signed him to a four year mid tiered contract, we could end up with a #1 WR at value. His long ball threat would be ideal for Justin.

He's solid. I think this year's FA WR class has several mid tier guys we can look at. Just because we "could" get Adams to fit into the cap, doesn't mean we should. I'm in the IE cap - lets get 2 solid guys to make the room stable as we look to find a guy in the draft (maybe not til '23) that can be a "true #1."