Outrage Thread: May Edition

[Grizzled]

Call this an anti-Outrage post. I think the Bears might have gotten the best QB in the draft, Fields was nitpicked by the draft "experts" after the season ended but, overall, has all the tools (arm, leadership, some running) to be a success. Jenkins just might be the best of the OTs with that nasty streak of his along with great physical skills.

[Rusty Trombagent]

TIME TO LOCK THE OUTRAGE THREAD>?!?!??!?!

[Boris13c]

TIME TO LOCK THE OUTRAGE THREAD>?!?!??!?!

I think you're right

this draft from top to bottom is a win for the Bears and I for one never expected Pace and Nagy to be capable of that

granted, knowing their jobs are on the line provided motivation, but a motivated dumbass is still a dumbass ... Pace and Nagy have stepped up from their past and expectations big time with this effort

[docc]

A friend of mine..a Puker fan..
Text me simply..after Fields and Jenkins

"Fuck You"

I happily answered..
Love you man..!

[karhu]

TIME TO LOCK THE OUTRAGE THREAD>?!?!??!?!

I think you're right

this draft from top to bottom is a win for the Bears and I for one never expected Pace and Nagy to be capable of that

granted, knowing their jobs are on the line provided motivation, but a motivated dumbass is still a dumbass ... Pace and Nagy have stepped up from their past and expectations big time with this effort

She would have been a good woman if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life.

[Boris13c]

I think you're right

this draft from top to bottom is a win for the Bears and I for one never expected Pace and Nagy to be capable of that

granted, knowing their jobs are on the line provided motivation, but a motivated dumbass is still a dumbass ... Pace and Nagy have stepped up from their past and expectations big time with this effort

She would have been a good woman if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life.

????

I do not understand what those 2 quotes have to do with each other

who is this woman being referenced and what post was that in?

[Rusty Trombagent]

This quotation, at the end of the story, reveals the Misfit’s understanding of what has occurred in the grandmother’s final moments, and he seems to recognize two things about her. First, he fully understands that despite her obvious belief in her moral superiority—which she conveys through her self-proclaimed identification as a “lady” and religious instruction—the grandmother is not, in fact, a good woman. She is flawed and weak, and her age grants her no particular rights for respect or reverence. Second, the Misfit recognizes that when facing death, the grandmother has the capacity to be a good woman. In her final moments, she foregoes the moral high ground she’d staunchly held and instead embraces her and the Misfit’s common humanity. The Misfit observes this shift and seems to realize what it means: if the grandmother could have lived her life at gunpoint, so to speak, she could have gained the self-awareness and compassion that she’d lacked.

[thunderspirit]

I mean, speaking only for myself, I got the reference, but not the analogy.

[UOK]

I don't buy it. This isn't like a "balling out on a contract year" situation, IMHO. If anything, Nagy had more control of this draft than Pace did.

[G08]

What if...

and hear me out here....

What if Pace is actually growing on the job?

[The Marshall Plan]

What if...

and hear me out here....

What if Pace is actually growing on the job?

After six years?

Do we have that long at our jobs?

[G08]

What if...

and hear me out here....

What if Pace is actually growing on the job?

After six years?

Do we have that long at our jobs?

If the understanding from the get-go was a complete tear down? I'd like to think so, yes.

Plus, why take the lumps while he learns how to excel as a GM and then let him take the fruits of his labor elsewhere?

[Rusty Trombagent]

After six years?

Do we have that long at our jobs?

If the understanding from the get-go was a complete tear down? I'd like to think so, yes.

Plus, why take the lumps while he learns how to excel as a GM and then let him take the fruits of his labor elsewhere?

I mean, if we're basing this purely on drafting his 2020 draft was pretty damn good as well.

[dplank]

What if...

and hear me out here....

What if Pace is actually growing on the job?

lmao

Yes, I think this is actually the case. My first clue was him drafting Roquan - a productive player from a big time program instead of some athletic freak reach. Last year he did the same, both Kmet and JJ were productive guys from big programs at need positions.

I know there's a whole thread about it, but I think I was wrong to want him fired in January.

[wab]

If the understanding from the get-go was a complete tear down? I'd like to think so, yes.

Plus, why take the lumps while he learns how to excel as a GM and then let him take the fruits of his labor elsewhere?

I mean, if we're basing this purely on drafting his 2020 draft was pretty damn good as well.

He missed on White (forgivable) and Trubisky (no as much). But his drafts overall haven't been that bad.

[thunderspirit]

lmao

Yes, I think this is actually the case. My first clue was him drafting Roquan - a productive player from a big time program instead of some athletic freak reach. Last year he did the same, both Kmet and JJ were productive guys from big programs at need positions.

I know there's a whole thread about it, but I think I was wrong to want him fired in January.

He missed on White (forgivable) and Trubisky (no as much). But his drafts overall haven't been that bad.

I agree that, generally, Pace's drafts have been pretty solid.

I don't see a significant change in approach, though. He still follows the same basic outline.

• Elite traits on day 1 -- elite athleticism with Big 5 production (White, Floyd), elite Big 5 production with athleticism (Smith, Fields), or elite physical traits from Big 5 schools (Trubisky).
• Productive Big 5 athletes on day 2 -- the outliers are Adam Shaheen and Anthony Miller, (though I would speculate that he used the first-round elite traits rule on both), but Eddie Goldman, Hroniss Grasu, Cody Whitehair, Jonathan Bullard, James Daniels, David Montgomery, Cole Kmet, Jaylon Johnson, and Teven Jenkins each fit this mold. It's also worth mentioning that each was a top 75 pick, and three (Goldman, Daniels, and Jenkins) were nabbed at #39. The last might only be coincidence, but it could also indicate first-round value that's fallen a bit. Sample size is small.
• Calculated risks on early day 3 -- non-Power 5/non-FBS prospects (Deiondre' Hall, Tarik Cohen, Jordan Morgan, Bilal Nichols, Trevis Gipson, Kindle Vildor, Darnell Mooney), Power 5 size/athleticism with iffy production (James Langford, Adrian Amos, Deon Bush), Power 5 production with iffy size/athleticism (Jordan Howard, Nick Kwiatkoski, Riley Ridley, Larry Borom) or with injury risks (Eddie Jackson).
• Lottery tickets on late day 3 -- traits you hope develop into something somehow. Tayo Fabuluje had elite size with questionable football character. (Pace certainly learned on that -- he's not taken such a risk again.) DeAndre Houston-Carson had elite FCS production but sub-par athleticism. Kylie Fitts had elite athleticism but a long list of injuries and spotty production. Javon Wims had size and agility with limited production. Duke Shelley had good production but below average athleticism on a small frame. Kerrith Whyte Jr and Stephen Denmark both had elite athletic traits but non-FBS level production. Arlington Hambright had excellent athleticism with Big 5 production (at a different position). Lachavious Simmons had good size and athletic ability at the non-FBS level. Khalil Herbert and Dazz Newsome both had one year of excellent Big 5 production and two meh years. Thomas Graham Jr's under 6 ft height probably caused him to drop in a fairly deep year for corners. Khyiris Tonga was overaged, but productive.

I think the scouts and he might be evaluating better, if 2018 and 2020 are any indication. But I don't think his approach has changed. I dislike his Day 1 philosophy, but Roquan Smith and Justin Fields may indicate he's weighing productivity more heavily now than he has in the past. I hope so.

[wab]

lmao

Yes, I think this is actually the case. My first clue was him drafting Roquan - a productive player from a big time program instead of some athletic freak reach. Last year he did the same, both Kmet and JJ were productive guys from big programs at need positions.

I know there's a whole thread about it, but I think I was wrong to want him fired in January.

He missed on White (forgivable) and Trubisky (no as much). But his drafts overall haven't been that bad.

I agree that, generally, Pace's drafts have been pretty solid.

I don't see a significant change in approach, though. He still follows the same basic outline.

• Elite traits on day 1 -- elite athleticism with Big 5 production (White, Floyd), elite Big 5 production with athleticism (Smith, Fields), or elite physical traits from Big 5 schools (Trubisky).
• Productive Big 5 athletes on day 2 -- the outliers are Adam Shaheen and Anthony Miller, (though I would speculate that he used the first-round elite traits rule on both), but Eddie Goldman, Hroniss Grasu, Cody Whitehair, Jonathan Bullard, James Daniels, David Montgomery, Cole Kmet, Jaylon Johnson, and Teven Jenkins each fit this mold. It's also worth mentioning that each was a top 75 pick, and three (Goldman, Daniels, and Jenkins) were nabbed at #39. The last might only be coincidence, but it could also indicate first-round value that's fallen a bit. Sample size is small.
• Calculated risks on early day 3 -- non-Power 5/non-FBS prospects (Deiondre' Hall, Tarik Cohen, Jordan Morgan, Bilal Nichols, Trevis Gipson, Kindle Vildor, Darnell Mooney), Power 5 size/athleticism with iffy production (James Langford, Adrian Amos, Deon Bush), Power 5 production with iffy size/athleticism (Jordan Howard, Nick Kwiatkoski, Riley Ridley, Larry Borom) or with injury risks (Eddie Jackson).
• Lottery tickets on late day 3 -- traits you hope develop into something somehow. Tayo Fabuluje had elite size with questionable football character. (Pace certainly learned on that -- he's not taken such a risk again.) DeAndre Houston-Carson had elite FCS production but sub-par athleticism. Kylie Fitts had elite athleticism but a long list of injuries and spotty production. Javon Wims had size and agility with limited production. Duke Shelley had good production but below average athleticism on a small frame. Kerrith Whyte Jr and Stephen Denmark both had elite athletic traits but non-FBS level production. Arlington Hambright had excellent athleticism with Big 5 production (at a different position). Lachavious Simmons had good size and athletic ability at the non-FBS level. Khalil Herbert and Dazz Newsome both had one year of excellent Big 5 production and two meh years. Thomas Graham Jr's under 6 ft height probably caused him to drop in a fairly deep year for corners. Khyiris Tonga was overaged, but productive.

I think the scouts and he might be evaluating better, if 2018 and 2020 are any indication. But I don't think his approach has changed. I dislike his Day 1 philosophy, but Roquan Smith and Justin Fields may indicate he's weighing productivity more heavily now than he has in the past. I hope so.

Good post. I was in the middle of doing something similar, and now I don't have to

[thunderspirit]

Good post. I was in the middle of doing something similar, and now I don't have to

Glad to help

[G08]

If the understanding from the get-go was a complete tear down? I'd like to think so, yes.

Plus, why take the lumps while he learns how to excel as a GM and then let him take the fruits of his labor elsewhere?

I mean, if we're basing this purely on drafting his 2020 draft was pretty damn good as well.

[wulfy]

I don't see a significant change in approach, though. He still follows the same basic outline.

• Elite traits on day 1 -- elite athleticism with Big 5 production (White, Floyd), elite Big 5 production with athleticism (Smith, Fields), or elite physical traits from Big 5 schools (Trubisky).
• Productive Big 5 athletes on day 2 -- the outliers are Adam Shaheen and Anthony Miller, (though I would speculate that he used the first-round elite traits rule on both), but Eddie Goldman, Hroniss Grasu, Cody Whitehair, Jonathan Bullard, James Daniels, David Montgomery, Cole Kmet, Jaylon Johnson, and Teven Jenkins each fit this mold. It's also worth mentioning that each was a top 75 pick, and three (Goldman, Daniels, and Jenkins) were nabbed at #39. The last might only be coincidence, but it could also indicate first-round value that's fallen a bit. Sample size is small.
• Calculated risks on early day 3 -- non-Power 5/non-FBS prospects (Deiondre' Hall, Tarik Cohen, Jordan Morgan, Bilal Nichols, Trevis Gipson, Kindle Vildor, Darnell Mooney), Power 5 size/athleticism with iffy production (James Langford, Adrian Amos, Deon Bush), Power 5 production with iffy size/athleticism (Jordan Howard, Nick Kwiatkoski, Riley Ridley, Larry Borom) or with injury risks (Eddie Jackson).
• Lottery tickets on late day 3 -- traits you hope develop into something somehow. Tayo Fabuluje had elite size with questionable football character. (Pace certainly learned on that -- he's not taken such a risk again.) DeAndre Houston-Carson had elite FCS production but sub-par athleticism. Kylie Fitts had elite athleticism but a long list of injuries and spotty production. Javon Wims had size and agility with limited production. Duke Shelley had good production but below average athleticism on a small frame. Kerrith Whyte Jr and Stephen Denmark both had elite athletic traits but non-FBS level production. Arlington Hambright had excellent athleticism with Big 5 production (at a different position). Lachavious Simmons had good size and athletic ability at the non-FBS level. Khalil Herbert and Dazz Newsome both had one year of excellent Big 5 production and two meh years. Thomas Graham Jr's under 6 ft height probably caused him to drop in a fairly deep year for corners. Khyiris Tonga was overaged, but productive.

I think the scouts and he might be evaluating better, if 2018 and 2020 are any indication. But I don't think his approach has changed. I dislike his Day 1 philosophy, but Roquan Smith and Justin Fields may indicate he's weighing productivity more heavily now than he has in the past. I hope so.

I just wanted to call out that this is a really good post, thunderspirit.

[dplank]

I thought it was good too, but there's a contradiction in it.

My point with thinking Pace has improved/changed was that he appears to be weighing production more than athleticism - not a total reversal but he seems to have tweaked his formula a bit after getting burned by White and Mitch. I then pointed to Roquan as what I thought was a turning point.

But I don't think his approach has changed. I dislike his Day 1 philosophy, but Roquan Smith and Justin Fields may indicate he's weighing productivity more heavily now than he has in the past. I hope so.

Your summation first refutes my point, then the next sentence confirms it and points to the same example. So you lose points for inefficiency, the simpler answer here was "Yes dplank, I agree".

The weight of these factors is the entire point. This statement below is true of every single NFL team/GM. This is like noting the sky is blue or water is wet. No GM is targeting Day 1 players without Elite traits

Elite traits on day 1 -- elite athleticism with Big 5 production (White, Floyd), elite Big 5 production with athleticism (Smith, Fields), or elite physical traits from Big 5 schools (Trubisky).

Then again, your year 2 thing misses the point that Pace has changed/grown in his role. You dismiss his two bad picks as "outliers". I'd suggest that maybe he learned from those mistakes and now doesn't reach for those unproven high tested athletes anymore in the early rounds.

I dunno, I think maybe you were missing the point G08 and I were making. Pace's growth wasn't some fundamental draft attack plan change, it was a more subtle change in how he weighs talent with a shift more to production over measurables. I actually think we all see the same thing here, semantics.

[thunderspirit]

Yeah, okay, splitting hairs, I suppose. But he's always valued productivity and athleticism both early on -- he just appears to have tweaked his valuation a bit. That's not a change in philosophy to me, just an adjustment. YMMV.

So I guess, "I agree, @dplank," then.

The weight of these factors is the entire point. This statement below is true of every single NFL team/GM. This is like noting the sky is blue or water is wet. No GM is targeting Day 1 players without Elite traits

Mike Mayock would like a word.

[UOK]

Carry on.

[dplank]

Yeah, okay, splitting hairs, I suppose. But he's always valued productivity and athleticism both early on -- he just appears to have tweaked his valuation a bit. That's not a change in philosophy to me, just an adjustment. YMMV.

So I guess, "I agree, @dplank," then.

The weight of these factors is the entire point. This statement below is true of every single NFL team/GM. This is like noting the sky is blue or water is wet. No GM is targeting Day 1 players without Elite traits

Mike Mayock would like a word

Hahaha Mayock has been a total disaster