2021 MOTML League Information And Schedule

For you fantasy football weirdos and degenerate gamblers

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BBF
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New Managers

Welcome IE, Umbali and dplank to MOTML! They will be taking over for JesseH, thunderspirt and bigwill.


SOME INFORMATION

We can discuss anything (rule, issue) that people would like to here or a new thread.

Tanking rules were implemented five years ago, and continue indefinitely. Long story short, don’t tank.

Here are some important reminders...

The Draft will be the same as last year with 4 rounds of picks of all available rookies and veterans that are not kept (free agents). You may draft a rookie or a free agent with any pick.

Future draft picks are allowed to be traded.

Picks during the draft are allowed to be traded. For any pick that is traded but also scheduled to be made within the 24 hour review window, these trades will be approved on a best effort basis (explained in the official trade thread).

There will still be a first come, first serve based transaction period after the draft for the remaining spots at the designated time.

Any other discussion about the league in general can be done here.


SCHEDULE

Everything lines up with the NFL preseason schedule and start of the regular season as normal.

All times below are central time (Chicago). ESPN lists all the times on the ESPN site as Eastern.

Sunday, August 1st 10:00 pm CST: Keeper Deadline

This is the date currently on the ESPN site (given as Eastern Time on ESPN), so go select your 14 keepers as soon as you can. However, you can change them up until this deadline. Any teams that have not selected keepers by this point will have keepers selected by the commissioner based on player rankings.

At this point the new league year will begin. Although trades can be discussed and negotiated before this time, teams will have to wait until after the Keeper Deadline for any trades to be posted, reviewed and become official.

Sunday, August 15th 10:00 am CST: Beginning of the Rookie/FA Draft

The full pick schedule is posted in the Rookie/FA Draft thread, including the deadline times for each pick. The pick rules are posted there.

August 28th 2:00 am CST: Conclusion of the Rookie/FA Draft

August 29th 9:00 pm CST: Transactions Allowed on ESPN Site

It will be at this point that you will be allowed to pick up any remaining available players by using the ESPN site. This will be done on a first come, first serve basis. Each team can fill out their remaining roster spots and all trades will be done on the ESPN site as well.

The NFL season starts September 9th. Good Luck!
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Atkins&Rebel
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I would like to see Free agents lock by September 4th and waivers start the Tuesday before the first game.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
BBF
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IE posted in another thread and I moved it here.

"I do have some opinions about the league so far, and it is related to trading so I'll just leave it here and if MN wants he can move the comment elsewhere.

As a reasonably experienced fantasy owner that has been in a lot of leagues that have been around a long time, I want to say that rules that were put into place years ago may not be (are probably not) ... ideal. I get the "this is the way we've always done it" and tradition stuff - but a lot of leagues limp on with bad rules and despite owner turnover related to the bad rules they refuse to consider changing them. I think that is a mistake. And I think with this league keeping 14 players is WAY too much and the benches are far too deep (especially with IR as well).

There is a difference between hedging (eg. keeping a veteran QB, a backup and a young prospect) and hoarding because you just have so many spots on your team you don't ever really have to make value judgements/decisions between players. And isn't decision-making what really makes a good manager (versus league longevity)? There are 32 teams in the NFL - which means every team in this league should be able to carry 2 QBs who will be starting "this week", plus prospects. I understand the concept of "keeper" leagues but keeping 4 starting QBs year over year is absurd - it shouldn't be allowed. It creates a power dynamic I'm not going to fall for. I'm not going to be extorted out of any draft pick during a rebuild to acquire an older temporary starter who is that owner's 3rd or 4th QB.

So without better controls on players that are "kept" (e.g. maxes by position), the incentive as a new owner trying to rebuild is simply to tank like a motherfucker and get a top 1-3 pick next year. Maybe the year after as well. Sure, I just traded for Hurts and I'll get a few nice picks this year at the top of each round. But without the ability to make really any decisions in the FA market to help myself, why not start Haskins all year and get Rattler next year and another top WR? There is a justification for it, because with the rules there is no other way to build a team. Nobody in their right mind would give up draft picks for journeymen and doom themselves year after year.

There's no money at stake either, so... what is the point of not wanting as much competition in the league as possible every year? Last year I finally convinced another league I'm in to go PPR... it took years to convince people, and I had to show the entire group statistically that non-PPR resulted in the people who picked in the top 3 winning over 80% of the time (and the draft order is random every year). The league was far better , and more competitive - the FA prospects were better and there was more trading. There wasn't one out of 12 teams that "gave up" last year for the first time. That's $100 league and people still had been giving up. I imagine this league has almost half the teams that give up by mid-season & just wait for next year. What's the fun in that?

Just food for thought, friends."


I appreciate the thoughts on it and everything's open to discussion. I'll address your points.

This is meant to be a full keeper league, such as your building your team like a real NFL franchise. I'm in leagues that range from complete redraft (1 league), keep a select few players (3), or full keeper (2). Each has their own dynamics. I understand preferring one format over another and the advantages and disadvantages of each, but this is the format that this one was designed for.

I could agree that incentivizes tanking, which we have rules in place for if you intentionally tank a lineup in a given week, but it doesn't come up as a problem. Based on what I've observed over the 20 years of the league, any given year there's only a few teams that are clearly rebuilding, but most of the teams are going for it.

And the parity of the league has proven that to be the case. Some teams have been consistently good, but usually the 6 teams in the playoffs rotate very well. The competition for the 6 playoff spots come down to about 10-12 teams in the last few weeks every year, with the top teams also competing for the 2 bye spots.

The league has also been pretty good at adopting changes, new rules, settings and policies. A few years ago we changed from non-PPR (this league was created in '99 before PPR was a thing) to full PPR. We've changed the starting roster settings, draft format, waiver format, division format and scheduling. Usually these things are proposed and put to a vote, which is why we keep this thread open for discussion.

If you'd like to propose a rule change on number of keepers then go ahead, and you may get support for it. I don't know how much, since the point of this league is to have to identify more than just the WR/RB 1s and 2s like typical leagues, but find the guys that would typically be free agents in other leagues with value.

You identified the QB position as an issue, which I'd say that you're correct that that is definitely a unique inefficiency about this league, that there are 16 teams, everyone wants a starter and a backup, and at any given time, only 32 quarterbacks playing in the NFL. It makes QBs more valuable in this league than a typical league, so adjust your values accordingly.

Thanks,
BBF
BBF
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One more point I'd like to add. Since you do pretty much keep your whole team, there is less incentive to sell off when you're out of it. In some other keeper formats, if you're ability to keep a player is limited or non-existent at the end of the season, you trade them to get some future value. Though if you keep your whole team there's less incentive to sell off at a discount since you'll have those players to compete next year.

It is definitely backed up by observations I've had between my 3 leagues where you keep limited players (much more selling off by bad teams) than in my 2 leagues where you keep your entire team (or most of it).
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IE
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Thanks for the response.

I do think QB is really the biggest issue that really stood out to me. I do think that the attempt to make it like owning an actual team is sort of on the side of my point... because market forces dictate the makeup of real teams. GMs can't sit there and be 100% risk free and not make a decision between vets because they have effectively unlimited roster size (or budget).

I like that the league has had recent discussions about tanking. Where are the rules around this - I don't want to break them. Real teams do tank - by starting Glennon instead of Minshew. Or trading Deshawn Watson with no backup. I definitely don't mean leave starting roster spots empty on purpose or something shitty like that. I mean you can have a starting QB1 and RB1 and still lose because nobody will trade you a serviceable WR or TE in a fair deal. If I have awful players and nobody accepts fair trade offers...how is that possibly regulated? We're not forcing people to trade draft picks for other people's garbage to win 3-4 games. Right?

I know it might look like I'm arguing for a cap league here, and I'm really not. I just don't want to hear that a top 5 TE should command multiple first round picks or a near-retirement QB is worth a top 5 pick. Because that indicates an imbalance to me - and I was wondering if others saw it the same way.
The Future is Now.
MOTM League: Daisycutter
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Atkins&Rebel
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Basically the tanking rule states that you have to 1, make sure you have a full lineup every week and 2, you can't intentionally start backups over starters.
Some guys have traded everything to get any kind of draft picks they can and have a neutered roster and effectively tank that way, but we want to see you at least try to win with what you have
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
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Atkins&Rebel
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Also, in every league, you'll find guys who argue for stupid value.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
BearsFanInMN
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:29 pm Also, in every league, you'll find guys who argue for stupid value.
Agreed. That’s the part that’s hard because everyone is going to have different valuations but at least discuss why. Though I do believe a top 5 TE like an…I don’t know Darren Waller..is worth 5 first rounders. :D
MOTML League: Eskimo Brothers
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IE
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Atkins&Rebel wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:47 pm Basically the tanking rule states that you have to 1, make sure you have a full lineup every week and 2, you can't intentionally start backups over starters.
Some guys have traded everything to get any kind of draft picks they can and have a neutered roster and effectively tank that way, but we want to see you at least try to win with what you have
Yeah that makes sense. What I meant by saying there is incentive to tank was it just makes more sense in the long run to roll with the bums you have versus doing lopsided deals.
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dabearsfan
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Posted on ESPN league board but figured I’d ask here as well. I’m playing the Unusual Suspects for the 2nd time in 2 weeks and play them 3 times overall this season. Schedule error maybe?
BearsFanInMN
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dabearsfan wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:29 pm Posted on ESPN league board but figured I’d ask here as well. I’m playing the Unusual Suspects for the 2nd time in 2 weeks and play them 3 times overall this season. Schedule error maybe?
Good question. I run two leagues on ESPN and the 14 game regular season is weird like you mention in all of them. Maybe not to that degree but the apparent rationale is hard to find.
MOTML League: Eskimo Brothers
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