Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

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MACKSMACK
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Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:42 pm

Depending on the price, it'd be a big boost to our offense. He did just come off short term IR, so there's that. Born in Ohio, played college ball at Mich St. Kick those tires and kick 'em soon!!
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:48 am

I had the same thought when I read the news of his release from the Jets. We are certainly short at RB and he would be an upgrade.

But I cannot see the McCaskeys pulling the trigger. 1. He would surely demand a big wage, and we haven't even resigned ARob yet. 2. He has a history of being a problem at 2 franchises now. The Bears don't usually go for that kind of guy.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:53 am

And the cap space could be a bigger problem.
cblaz11
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:45 am

Actually, I’m pretty sure we have the space to sign him. Looks like we’re almost 10 mill under the cap(I could be wrong)

Here’s the thing though, I don’t want him. I actually really like David Montgomery...I wish Nagy would run the guy consistently because I feel like once he gets going he’s hard to stop.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:30 am

Bell is not an explosive player. In his productive years he was known for being a patient runner, working behind a good Oline and with the threat of a good passing game. In NJ he's been unable to produce on the ground without those two things. Basically, he IS David Montgomery and that's only if he's healthy.

For $6MM? No thanks - I'll go with Lamar Miller or the guys on the bench.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:05 am

Now that he’s been released, doesn’t NY eat all his money? IIRC other player in this situation often take a one year vet minimum cause their income is 100% covered from the old team. Maybe I have that wrong. If not though I’d take him and play him in Cohens role. Bell is an outstanding receiver, better receiver than runner really, and could plug right in to that role. We are a Monty injury away from disaster at the RB position, I think we should be proactive here.

He’s also be on a mission to jumpstart his flailing career. At one point he was considered one of the best in the game, just two years ago.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:07 am

His lack of production in NY is a testament to why you build a dominating offensive line. There is a reason great RBs put up average production and average RBs put up great production. I would be using a day 2 pick on a O lineman every single year if I were a GM.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am

Z Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:07 am
His lack of production in NY is a testament to why you build a dominating offensive line. There is a reason great RBs put up average production and average RBs put up great production. I would be using a day 2 pick on a O lineman every single year if I were a GM.
Yes and yes....and YES! You could put Stephen Hawking behind the 90's Cowboys line and average 4 YPC. If I had to weight the impact of OL and RB with regards to success in the run game, I'd say it's 80-20 OL. Folks rightly look at Pace's QB problems as his main complaint, but IMO it's his flat refusal to invest properly in our OL - whether that be via FA, draft capital, or both. Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.

BUILD. THE. LINES.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:47 am

I'm going to say a hard no. When he was with The Steelers he was one of the best runningbacks in The NFL but since he became a Jet he's regressed.

And besides Nagy doesn't utilize the run so any capital they give up to nab him would go down the drain.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 am

Bell likes to dance behind the line and wait for a hole to open. He would get a ton of negative runs behind our line, I say pass. I like Lamar Miller better as he is a one-cut downhill runner instead of a dancer.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:39 pm

New England is currently +1000 odds to sign Bell. WIsh I had online betting here, this is what I think will happen. I'm hopeful it's us.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:21 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am
Z Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:07 am
His lack of production in NY is a testament to why you build a dominating offensive line. There is a reason great RBs put up average production and average RBs put up great production. I would be using a day 2 pick on a O lineman every single year if I were a GM.
Yes and yes....and YES! You could put Stephen Hawking behind the 90's Cowboys line and average 4 YPC. If I had to weight the impact of OL and RB with regards to success in the run game, I'd say it's 80-20 OL. Folks rightly look at Pace's QB problems as his main complaint, but IMO it's his flat refusal to invest properly in our OL - whether that be via FA, draft capital, or both. Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.

BUILD. THE. LINES.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:24 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am
Z Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:07 am
...I would be using a day 2 pick on a O lineman every single year if I were a GM.
...Folks rightly look at Pace's QB problems as his main complaint, but IMO it's his flat refusal to invest properly in our OL - whether that be via FA, draft capital, or both. Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.

BUILD. THE. LINES.
Pace has had 6 drafts now and thanks to the Mack trade didn't have first round picks in two. He's drafted offensive linemen on Day 2 in half of them, one in the third round, two in the second. The latter are both solid starters. He's also drafted linemen in rounds 5 and 6 and twice in round 7.

Pace extended a former all-Pro guard during his tenure. He extended the RT making him the 8th highest paid (by annual average) at the position the year he signed (currently tenth). He extended the LT making him the 16th highest paid at the position the year he signed (currently 20th).

So it's not so much that Pace has refused to invest in the line but rather that he often hasn't invested wisely.

The line's struggles the last two games don't convince me that a patient runner like Bell would enjoy much success against better teams.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:15 pm

britbear wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:48 am

But I cannot see the McCaskeys pulling the trigger. 1. He would surely demand a big wage...
The Jets are responsible for his $6 million+ salary. If we pay him a $1 million to join the Bears, Le'Veon still only receives $6 million+ (the Jets would pay $5 million and the Bears would pay $1 million).

The only way Le'Veon makes more than he's making now is if a team pays him more than his contract with the Jets. And then that team would be on the hook for his entire salary and the Jets would pay $0.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:25 pm

dplank wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am
BUILD. THE. LINES.
Successful teams build their teams from the inside out.

Pace likes to go through the motions to address these issues and then feels the problem is solved. However, the performance of our offensive line group shows that Pace's moves are ineffective at best.

I'm sick of this guy. When you look at how well KPL is doing on The Washington Football Team, how well Kwit is doing in LV, on how well Chase Claypool is doing in Pittsburgh (vs Cole Kmet), when you look at how our entire offense and the good players on defense are overwhelmingly Free Agents, Pace just sucks.

Hey Pace! :flick: :flick: :flick:
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dplank
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:48 am

Looks like Bell is going to the Chiefs
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:53 am

F
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RichH55
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:36 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:24 pm
dplank wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am


...Folks rightly look at Pace's QB problems as his main complaint, but IMO it's his flat refusal to invest properly in our OL - whether that be via FA, draft capital, or both. Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.

BUILD. THE. LINES.
Pace has had 6 drafts now and thanks to the Mack trade didn't have first round picks in two. He's drafted offensive linemen on Day 2 in half of them, one in the third round, two in the second. The latter are both solid starters. He's also drafted linemen in rounds 5 and 6 and twice in round 7.

Pace extended a former all-Pro guard during his tenure. He extended the RT making him the 8th highest paid (by annual average) at the position the year he signed (currently tenth). He extended the LT making him the 16th highest paid at the position the year he signed (currently 20th).

So it's not so much that Pace has refused to invest in the line but rather that he often hasn't invested wisely.

The line's struggles the last two games don't convince me that a patient runner like Bell would enjoy much success against better teams.

Really good post
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:26 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:24 pm
dplank wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:23 am


...Folks rightly look at Pace's QB problems as his main complaint, but IMO it's his flat refusal to invest properly in our OL - whether that be via FA, draft capital, or both. Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.

BUILD. THE. LINES.
So it's not so much that Pace has refused to invest in the line but rather that he often hasn't invested wisely.
This is what I mean when I get annoyed at the internets lol. I said he’s refused to invest PROPERLY. You counter by listing some investments that he’s made, then say “it’s not that he’s refused to invest”, as if that was my take which it wasn’t. Of course he’s invested. All you did was change my word “properly” to your word “wisely”. Rich jumps in because he’s Rich, the grudge master. Nuanced discussion is really a struggle here.

I largely agree with your take (since it very closely mirrors mine). Where we have a minor difference is that I want Pace to have spent one of his 4 #1’s and/or have signed a marquee free agent instead of overpaying for mediocre players. He seems content with mediocrity, he showed it again this past offseason. There were tackles available when we picked twice in the second round and there were several FA tackles available as well. He didn’t address the position, again, and here we are with a poor OT situation - again. If he valued the position, like he values OLB for example, he’s have done something. This is an annual problem. He’s compounded his lack of interest with a lack of wisdom, I agree he’s also not been wise. But the results speak for themselves, our OL is near bottom every single year. If you value it properly, you’d keep working at it until it’s fixed. He thew late picks and cast off free agents at it instead.

It’s also not my position that Bell would change our running game. My position is he’d fill Cohens role well and provide insurance if Monty gets hurt. Looks like we are sticking with Miller there, no big deal I’m fine with it.

I spend way too much time thinking about the Bears. :rofl: :rofl:
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:16 pm

Fair enough dplank.

My interjection was partly in response to Z Bear suggesting he would like Pace to be spending a Day 2 pick on the offensive line every year, pointing out that he has on average done so every other year.

You followed up your comment about Pace's "flat refusal to invest properly in our OL" with "Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.", which implied that was all you felt Pace had done whereas based on your last post I presume you simply meant this offseason.

I think the problem Pace had this year was one of his own making, handing out sizeable contracts to Leno in the mistaken belief that he was still ascending and an extension to Massie for what reason I cannot fathom. As discussed before the season started, he couldn't extricate himself from these because of the large dead cap figures.

As for his use of first round picks, they've basically been a disaster. Even Smith has yet to prove worthy of his status as a top 10 draft pick. He's good, but he's not a star and 5 games into his third year you have to wonder if he's ever going to be. With the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to argue that Pace wouldn't have been better off opting for an offensive lineman or two.

It's part of the reason I'm disappointed (although not overly surprised) that Trubisky didn't turn things around this season. I was hoping he would so that Pace could focus on trying to secure a top LT prospect in the draft. Now you've got to think he's going to need a QB. Chances are he's going to have to pay big money for a veteran to start to allow the latest prospect to develop. That will most likely be Foles who isn't going to stick around if he's only going to be earning £8m to be the starter. There's also Robinson's potential new deal too.

As for Bell, I would have thought he would prefer to go to a team where there is a decent chance of him earning another lucrative long-term deal. With their other needs I don't think the Bears would have the financial resources available to meet that criterion.

Oh, and I spend way too much time thinking about the Bears too! :rofl: :rofl:
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:27 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:16 pm
Fair enough dplank.

My interjection was partly in response to Z Bear suggesting he would like Pace to be spending a Day 2 pick on the offensive line every year, pointing out that he has on average done so every other year.

You followed up your comment about Pace's "flat refusal to invest properly in our OL" with "Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.", which implied that was all you felt Pace had done whereas based on your last post I presume you simply meant this offseason.

I think the problem Pace had this year was one of his own making, handing out sizeable contracts to Leno in the mistaken belief that he was still ascending and an extension to Massie for what reason I cannot fathom. As discussed before the season started, he couldn't extricate himself from these because of the large dead cap figures.

As for his use of first round picks, they've basically been a disaster. Even Smith has yet to prove worthy of his status as a top 10 draft pick. He's good, but he's not a star and 5 games into his third year you have to wonder if he's ever going to be. With the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to argue that Pace wouldn't have been better off opting for an offensive lineman or two.

It's part of the reason I'm disappointed (although not overly surprised) that Trubisky didn't turn things around this season. I was hoping he would so that Pace could focus on trying to secure a top LT prospect in the draft. Now you've got to think he's going to need a QB. Chances are he's going to have to pay big money for a veteran to start to allow the latest prospect to develop. That will most likely be Foles who isn't going to stick around if he's only going to be earning £8m to be the starter. There's also Robinson's potential new deal too.

As for Bell, I would have thought he would prefer to go to a team where there is a decent chance of him earning another lucrative long-term deal. With their other needs I don't think the Bears would have the financial resources available to meet that criterion.

Oh, and I spend way too much time thinking about the Bears too! :rofl: :rofl:
All good, largely agree here. I'm trying to convince myself that Foles might be a long term answer here, he's only 31 - that's a baby in NFL QB terms as we watch guys playing deep into their 40's now. But he'll have to earn it.

But yea, Pace in the 1st round hasn't been pretty. At all. Even my guy Roquan, who I wanted him to draft, has not lived up to his draft slot as of this moment - still hoping on that one. And someone else posted about how our D is basically all FA's. Mostly true, Fuller/EJax/Roquan/Nichols/JJohnson were drafted, the rest FA's. I've been a big Pace supporter but my trust has really eroded. I feel like he's gone all in on a win now mode but without having a great hand, and poised for big cap problems very soon.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:33 pm

Bell's signed with the Chiefs anyway. Can't blame him, but the last thing the rest of the league needs is for KC to have yet another weapon!
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:33 pm

HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:16 pm
Fair enough dplank.

My interjection was partly in response to Z Bear suggesting he would like Pace to be spending a Day 2 pick on the offensive line every year, pointing out that he has on average done so every other year.

You followed up your comment about Pace's "flat refusal to invest properly in our OL" with "Sorry but throwing a couple 7th rounders at the problem is not the answer.", which implied that was all you felt Pace had done whereas based on your last post I presume you simply meant this offseason.

I think the problem Pace had this year was one of his own making, handing out sizeable contracts to Leno in the mistaken belief that he was still ascending and an extension to Massie for what reason I cannot fathom. As discussed before the season started, he couldn't extricate himself from these because of the large dead cap figures.

As for his use of first round picks, they've basically been a disaster. Even Smith has yet to prove worthy of his status as a top 10 draft pick. He's good, but he's not a star and 5 games into his third year you have to wonder if he's ever going to be. With the benefit of hindsight, it's hard to argue that Pace wouldn't have been better off opting for an offensive lineman or two.

It's part of the reason I'm disappointed (although not overly surprised) that Trubisky didn't turn things around this season. I was hoping he would so that Pace could focus on trying to secure a top LT prospect in the draft. Now you've got to think he's going to need a QB. Chances are he's going to have to pay big money for a veteran to start to allow the latest prospect to develop. That will most likely be Foles who isn't going to stick around if he's only going to be earning £8m to be the starter. There's also Robinson's potential new deal too.

As for Bell, I would have thought he would prefer to go to a team where there is a decent chance of him earning another lucrative long-term deal. With their other needs I don't think the Bears would have the financial resources available to meet that criterion.

Oh, and I spend way too much time thinking about the Bears too! :rofl: :rofl:

Better than I could have said it.

BTW "Properly" is nothing but outcome determatism IMHO (and yes I know you meant Trent Williams). But one of the mantras - besides Build the Lines - is Pick good football players
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:49 pm

Fair point rich but when he’s actually spent draft capital on the OL, he’s hit on Whitehair and Daniels. But you have to start 5 OL, a couple hits isn’t enough. Hell Ifedi looks like a nice pickup. But our OL SUCKS, again, it takes 5. He just hasn’t put enough effort there for my liking. He sat on Leno and Massie this year despite awful play last year, I feel like he should have hedged hard there. He went OLB in FA and TE in draft instead. He chose to do that instead of adding an OT, the money and draft capital were there, we went another direction. When I say properly, this is what I mean. Choosing to sit on Leno and Massie when you have the ability to add to that.

Our OL is holding us back, Massie and Leno have been bad. Meanwhile, Quinn and Kmet have done very little.

The 80s Bears were known for defense and Walter. But there were a couple HOF OL on that team. Best OL since I’ve been watching our Bears, no coincidence they were good for so long. That’s how you win consistently. Pats and Cowboys dynasties same deal!!!
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Re: Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:54 am

Everyone talked about the Chiefs but it’s not like they’ve invested a ton.

Eric Fisher - #1 overall
Andrew Wylie - Undrafted
Austin Reiter - 7th round (Washington)
Laurent Duvernay Tardif - 6th round
Mitchell Schwartz - 2nd round (Browns)

People need to understand that developing is just as important as investing.
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Re: Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:36 pm

Sure wab, when you hit you can stop investing hard. No argument. But the fact remains that our OL is perennially one of the worst in the NFL, for decades now. The Chiefs have one of the best. This is not remotely debatable. So I guess I just would ask, why do you seem so willing to accept it? We are obviously doing something wrong, long term wrong. Excuse making is for losers. As fans we should not accept being one of the worst OL in the NFL year after year. Just saying "well he kinda tried and not everyone has OL's full of high draft picks" is not an answer for me as it ignores two decades of futility.

You don't see long term trends this consistent and not ask hard questions as to why it's the case.

Now we've seen with Moriarty's excellent work that we in fact HAVE devalued the position under Pace. I suspect prior GM's would show a similar pattern. I can't wrap my head around why this isn't a uniform call from Bears fans, like why in the world would you try and excuse this?
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Re: Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:42 pm

dplank wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:36 pm
Sure wab, when you hit you can stop investing hard. No argument. But the fact remains that our OL is perennially one of the worst in the NFL, for decades now. The Chiefs have one of the best. This is not remotely debatable. So I guess I just would ask, why do you seem so willing to accept it? We are obviously doing something wrong, long term wrong. Excuse making is for losers. As fans we should not accept being one of the worst OL in the NFL year after year. Just saying "well he kinda tried and not everyone has OL's full of high draft picks" is not an answer for me as it ignores two decades of futility.

You don't see long term trends this consistent and not ask hard questions as to why it's the case.

Now we've seen with Moriarty's excellent work that we in fact HAVE devalued the position under Pace. I suspect prior GM's would show a similar pattern. I can't wrap my head around why this isn't a uniform call from Bears fans, like why in the world would you try and excuse this?
In the same 6 years that Pace has been the GM, the Chiefs have drafted 4 offensive linemen. With the exception of Mitch Morse, who is now with the Bills...none of them are starters.
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Re: Update: Le'Veon Bell signs w/ Chiefs

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:43 pm

The Chiefs got slower.
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Re: Le'Veon Bell

Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:23 pm

Z Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:02 am
Bell likes to dance behind the line and wait for a hole to open. He would get a ton of negative runs behind our line, I say pass. I like Lamar Miller better as he is a one-cut downhill runner instead of a dancer.
Hmmmmm. Anyone know what James Allen is doing?
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