What Do You Think of Coach Nagy’s Use of Mizzell?
Moderator: wab
- ramentaschen
- Assistant Coach
- Posts: 684
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:29 am
- Been thanked: 7 times
He’s been used more frequently in these past two games and has done well but is it at the expense of Howard?
- Mikefive
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5192
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
- Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
- Has thanked: 342 times
- Been thanked: 278 times
Mizzell is Cohen-lite in Nagy's eyes, I think. I'm not a fan of Mizzell, because I think he's useless if you hand him the ball. To some extent yes, it's at Howard's expense and I don't like that either.
Nagy has said for a couple weeks now that he's dissatisfied with the run game. That has to mean more Howard and Less Mizzell (as long as Cohen is playing).
But who am I to criticize our coach who now has us 8-3 now and the happiest I've been as a Bear fan in years?
Nagy has said for a couple weeks now that he's dissatisfied with the run game. That has to mean more Howard and Less Mizzell (as long as Cohen is playing).
But who am I to criticize our coach who now has us 8-3 now and the happiest I've been as a Bear fan in years?
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1667
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:10 pm
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 120 times
I've never seen Mizzell do anything that Cunningham cannot do better. I don't understand what the Bears see in him. He's a waste of space.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29884
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 130 times
- Been thanked: 1997 times
He seems to be getting more time at the expense of Cunningham. He’s got a little more speed maybe?
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11040
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 517 times
I heard in an interview, he likes Mizzell's hands. Nagy loves the little scatback types of RB's that he can split wide and create mismatches in the secondary. As much as he tells Howard he's going to "get him going". I don't actually think it's going to happen, and that will be by design. Nagy doesn't want a big, zone scheme, off tackle, RB. That doesn't fit his offense.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1667
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:10 pm
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 120 times
That just means he's going nowhere fast.wab wrote:He seems to be getting more time at the expense of Cunningham. He’s got a little more speed maybe?
- VA_Mountain_Bear
- Crafty Veteran
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:19 am
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
Benny is the one MIA with Mizzel getting reps. If he performed better I'd like him more, but as long as we are winning, it doesn't hurt to get a feel for what he may be able to offer the team.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29884
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 130 times
- Been thanked: 1997 times
I guess...I don't really care who he chooses, or how he chooses to use the 3rd string RB.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
Does anyone remember when he was picked up last year? They talked about how quick he was. He hasn't shown it on the field yet, but I do think Nagy sees him as Cohen light.
Benny C is also hurt, which is why he's seeing more of the field. Add into the fact that Howard seems to be getting phased out b/c he's struggling and you have Mizzel getting more touches. Howard got 18 touches last year, around mid Oct it was 16 touches, and I believe its around 14 touches now(all average per game).
Benny C is also hurt, which is why he's seeing more of the field. Add into the fact that Howard seems to be getting phased out b/c he's struggling and you have Mizzel getting more touches. Howard got 18 touches last year, around mid Oct it was 16 touches, and I believe its around 14 touches now(all average per game).
I think it's important to remember is that Mizzell is not replacing a RB. I think that's where people get confused. He's replacing a WR because both White and Wims have no special teams value. To play on coverage and return teams is why he's active on game day and because he's is active they are playing him a little offense primarily in Cohen's role as a slot receiver. I haven't checked the snap counts to see if this is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were using Mizzell to protect Anthony Miller from having to play as much special teams as he was earlier in the season.
- The Marshall Plan
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 8423
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
- Location: Parts Unknown
- Has thanked: 910 times
- Been thanked: 1294 times
I think the more people that get their hands on the ball in the offense and produce, the harder it is for the defense to game plan against us. Works for me.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20622
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 223 times
- Been thanked: 793 times
Pretty sure we are going to look hard at RB in free agency and the draft. Methinks all that smoke about Howard not being a good fit for this offense had some merit to it...
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
"Wallet white, phone is pink, case is clear, nails are clear, lips are pink – your girl LOVE 'em!"
"Wallet white, phone is pink, case is clear, nails are clear, lips are pink – your girl LOVE 'em!"
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
I would agree with this. Regardless of the reason Howard has struggled in this O, and is getting fewer and fewer carries as the year goes on. I cannot see how that leads to him staying.G08 wrote:Pretty sure we are going to look hard at RB in free agency and the draft. Methinks all that smoke about Howard not being a good fit for this offense had some merit to it...
I would prefer he does and the team figures out how to use him, but imo this goes beyond scheme and Nagy not wanting not use him(he's top 10 in carries and earlier in the year he was around 6th in carries). This appears to be a performance/fit issue; unless it comes out after the season he was injured. If he's playing w/a bad hammy and just trying to work through it, ala Matt Forte in his soph year, then He'll definitely be kept.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29884
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 130 times
- Been thanked: 1997 times
I don't have a lot of gripes about Nagy, but the one I do have is his blocking scheme. He's got literally one guy on the line that is a power blocker, and that's Massey.Z Bear wrote:I do not think Jordan Howard is the issue as much as the offensive line and play calling. How many times has he been hit behind the line of scrimmage this year? That is not on the RB.
Leno, Whitehair, Daniels, and Kush/Witzmann are all pass blockers/ZBS guys. They aren't maulers.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11040
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 517 times
That in combination with the breakdown of Howard as a pure zone runner, really is the issue. It's not that Howard or our OL is ineffective, it's that Nagy isn't playing to their strengths. Given how much Nagy values the run game, that's not suprising.wab wrote:I don't have a lot of gripes about Nagy, but the one I do have is his blocking scheme. He's got literally one guy on the line that is a power blocker, and that's Massey.Z Bear wrote:I do not think Jordan Howard is the issue as much as the offensive line and play calling. How many times has he been hit behind the line of scrimmage this year? That is not on the RB.
Leno, Whitehair, Daniels, and Kush/Witzmann are all pass blockers/ZBS guys. They aren't maulers.
I don't know this WAB, so I am asking for your's or someone else's expertise. Can you run an RPO based offense with a zone blocking scheme?
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29884
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 130 times
- Been thanked: 1997 times
You can, but it's mostly going to be inside zone. In an RPO heavy offense, the blocking scheme will really depend on what defense the other team is in.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:That in combination with the breakdown of Howard as a pure zone runner, really is the issue. It's not that Howard or our OL is ineffective, it's that Nagy isn't playing to their strengths. Given how much Nagy values the run game, that's not suprising.wab wrote:I don't have a lot of gripes about Nagy, but the one I do have is his blocking scheme. He's got literally one guy on the line that is a power blocker, and that's Massey.Z Bear wrote:I do not think Jordan Howard is the issue as much as the offensive line and play calling. How many times has he been hit behind the line of scrimmage this year? That is not on the RB.
Leno, Whitehair, Daniels, and Kush/Witzmann are all pass blockers/ZBS guys. They aren't maulers.
I don't know this WAB, so I am asking for your's or someone else's expertise. Can you run an RPO based offense with a zone blocking scheme?
Generally the offensive line will block inside zone with the backside of the offensive line base blocking, which gives the QB protection in case he decides to throw. If the offense has the favorable numbers in the box, the QB will hand the ball off to the back on the inside zone play. That's whee the struggle is coming. Howard was successful in the stretch zone because he was all the Bears had and defenses loaded up to stop him inside. Now the defense has to account for the RPO and tends to spread out more, limiting the cutback lanes he thrived on.
There's also a lot of nuances with blocking "covered" or "uncovered" in both inside and outside zone schemes, and I'm not familiar enough with what Hiestand does in those situations and how that could be impacting Howard.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29884
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 130 times
- Been thanked: 1997 times
It kinda is though, because he's slow to anticipate the RPO. When the Bears have favorable blocking and Mitch hands the ball to Howard, he's just not hitting the holes (seeing the holes?) fast enough. Howard is used to getting the handoff and getting to a running lane.Z Bear wrote:How many times has he been hit behind the line of scrimmage this year? That is not on the RB.
- crueltyabc
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5133
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
- Location: Dallas TX
- Has thanked: 81 times
- Been thanked: 234 times
I think we're seeing more Mizzell because the PR/KR has been shit, Cunningham got hurt in the Lions game, and because the running game in general has been struggling. It could be that he likes Mizzell or it could be that he's the last option.
As for the Howard stuff, I'm still thinking that there's no point in worrying about it because he's so inexpensive. So what if he gets only a few carries? I guess we start talking about "he doesn't contribute on special teams"?
As for the Howard stuff, I'm still thinking that there's no point in worrying about it because he's so inexpensive. So what if he gets only a few carries? I guess we start talking about "he doesn't contribute on special teams"?
xyt in the discord chats
- Boris13c
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 15969
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
- Location: The Bear Nebula
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 113 times
I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
George Carlin
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11040
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 517 times
C'mon Boris...you can find something to complain about. You usually do...Boris13c wrote:I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
- Boris13c
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 15969
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
- Location: The Bear Nebula
- Has thanked: 41 times
- Been thanked: 113 times
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:C'mon Boris...you can find something to complain about. You usually do...Boris13c wrote:I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
every complaint I had at the beginning of the season, I have watched the Bears get better at ... and while it wasn't a direct improvement to my specific complaint of the time, it was always a step in the right direction ... sometimes big, sometimes small, but a step in the right direction
it is so refreshing to actually witness a team being rebuilt and reborn into success right before my eyes, and I am so damn appreciative of it, that no, I have no complaints with how this team is being run nor with the results we are witnessing
and I am really pleased my pre-season prediction of a 10-6 Bears team may have actually been conservative
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
George Carlin
- The Marshall Plan
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 8423
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
- Location: Parts Unknown
- Has thanked: 910 times
- Been thanked: 1294 times
To your point, we're scoring almost 30 points a game while really only running this offense at full speed for 2.5 quarters per game. We're 8-3. The defense is amazing. I'm ecstatic.Boris13c wrote:Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:C'mon Boris...you can find something to complain about. You usually do...Boris13c wrote:I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
every complaint I had at the beginning of the season, I have watched the Bears get better at ... and while it wasn't a direct improvement to my specific complaint of the time, it was always a step in the right direction ... sometimes big, sometimes small, but a step in the right direction
it is so refreshing to actually witness a team being rebuilt and reborn into success right before my eyes, and I am so damn appreciative of it, that no, I have no complaints with how this team is being run nor with the results we are witnessing
and I am really pleased my pre-season prediction of a 10-6 Bears team may have actually been conservative
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11040
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 517 times
If the Bears can score 30-40 points a game next year, and at the very least, maintain the defense (I think it will get better) they are going to win A LOT of games. Honestly I'm not sure who I would put above the Bears. All of the high-flying offenses this year have a mediocre defense at best.The Marshall Plan wrote:To your point, we're scoring almost 30 points a game while really only running this offense at full speed for 2.5 quarters per game. We're 8-3. The defense is amazing. I'm ecstatic.Boris13c wrote:Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:C'mon Boris...you can find something to complain about. You usually do...Boris13c wrote:I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
every complaint I had at the beginning of the season, I have watched the Bears get better at ... and while it wasn't a direct improvement to my specific complaint of the time, it was always a step in the right direction ... sometimes big, sometimes small, but a step in the right direction
it is so refreshing to actually witness a team being rebuilt and reborn into success right before my eyes, and I am so damn appreciative of it, that no, I have no complaints with how this team is being run nor with the results we are witnessing
and I am really pleased my pre-season prediction of a 10-6 Bears team may have actually been conservative
- The Marshall Plan
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 8423
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
- Location: Parts Unknown
- Has thanked: 910 times
- Been thanked: 1294 times
Agreed.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:If the Bears can score 30-40 points a game next year, and at the very least, maintain the defense (I think it will get better) they are going to win A LOT of games. Honestly I'm not sure who I would put above the Bears. All of the high-flying offenses this year have a mediocre defense at best.The Marshall Plan wrote:To your point, we're scoring almost 30 points a game while really only running this offense at full speed for 2.5 quarters per game. We're 8-3. The defense is amazing. I'm ecstatic.Boris13c wrote:Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:C'mon Boris...you can find something to complain about. You usually do...Boris13c wrote:I have absolutely no problems, issues or questions on how Coach Nagy chooses to use his roster
every complaint I had at the beginning of the season, I have watched the Bears get better at ... and while it wasn't a direct improvement to my specific complaint of the time, it was always a step in the right direction ... sometimes big, sometimes small, but a step in the right direction
it is so refreshing to actually witness a team being rebuilt and reborn into success right before my eyes, and I am so damn appreciative of it, that no, I have no complaints with how this team is being run nor with the results we are witnessing
and I am really pleased my pre-season prediction of a 10-6 Bears team may have actually been conservative
The big thing to watch next year is how does the Bears additional experience in Nagy's system offset the opposing defense having a full year of game film. I think that ends up being a wash and we still put up a ton of points per game.
Next year, losses like the GB and NE ones don't happen. GB was a function of unfamiliarity with the system and road jitters. Kyle Fuller also makes that INT more often than not. Special teams fucked up against NE. We should be 10-1 in the first year of Nagy's system and year 2 of Biscuit's career (really year 1).
Another thing is that we have to be at the point where the free agent who is on the fence between deciding whether to play in Chicago or someplace else leans towards us.
- Pagan
- MVP
- Posts: 1408
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:19 am
- Location: South Bend, Indiana
- Has thanked: 40 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Tons of great responses on this thread & exactly why I see the Bears owning this division for the next 5+ years.
The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!
All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.
We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.
The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!
All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.
We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
Probably cannot go beyond a few years b/c of how quickly it can all change via draft and fa. But I tend to agree the O should get better and the D should remain the same/similar. Should make for a more competitive team overall.Pagan wrote:Tons of great responses on this thread & exactly why I see the Bears owning this division for the next 5+ years.
The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!
All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.
We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.