Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

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RichH55
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:16 am

Actually - if you read the thread you will see Dplank bring up Chase an unconscionable amount of times. So that's what that was.

The amount of digital ink I have actually addressed on Watson in this thread has been VAST.

1-2 in the playoffs - Not Top Ten in Total Offense or Points last year - Median game play was only OK last year (A Stat Dplank LOVES when it hammers Mitch - but will NOT address here) but when you look at the game logs you'll where he ABSOLUTELY goes Off (See Atlanta last year) but that is NOT the norm.

He will say things like they "Immediately" turned a corner when Watson got there overlooking that they were Back to Back Division Champions with two Crappy QB before his draft

And that Bill Obrien and Hopkins actually GOT a Good year out of Brian Hoyer (Dplank will assume all that away) in that Span.

QB holding onto the Ball too long and taking too many sacks? ESPECIALLY in the playoffs? That doesn't matter for some reason

I will bring up how some non-Watson factors I think will hurt this year - Losing Hopkins for example - and that Cap Room and Draft picks are going to START (they have not YET) hurting the product on the field.

And that will morph into Going for an ELITE WR making things happen to merely an above average Corps (though probably deeper overall) - SO Then it will be that above average WR Corps "SUX" so that when Watson potentially struggles and/or merely stagnates as Good not Great - that's an EXCUSE built in

Or he rushes for 400 Yards and he's the equivalent of Lamar Jackson for some reason

I think Watson is Good not Great. If the argument is v. him and Mitch - Well that is about 99% decided in Watson's favor (though ironically Mitch was as good or better in 2018 - but bad in 2019) Though if you are talking that Draft Class no one would even think about having Watson in the same tier as Maholmes
(POINTS TO YOGI - I bring up the terrible takes on guys like Barkley (which you refuse to fully admit on) - but Credit where Credit it due - Fantastic, superb call on Maholmes)

I have also said - again - Repeatedly let 2020 speak on the issue and we can revisit it then - And I'm insane apparently

If Watson takes that step toward greatness - I'm Happy to post how wrong and dense I was - All hail the great Dplank (ACTUAL Great - Not Taylor Gabriel Great). Comes out with 30 TD, 10 INT, 4400 Yards - Boom. Idiot post will be there before the Season ends

If it's 24 TD, 15 INT, 3760 Yards? Texans give up more points than they score (AGAIN BTW)? And it's like a 7-9 to 9-7 WC with either no Playoffs or another Loss

Would that mean he's Bad? Of course NOT. But it would also mean a simple thing: NOT Great.

(Based on NFL Play - I know, I know if he gets a Dancing with the Stars invite or Marries Kristen Cavallari then that OF COURSE trumps mundane things like what he did on an NFL Field) (Note: Sarcasm)




He will quote Madden - And you will quote NFL Nation (I do like that it was for the next 5 years so you devalue all the old guys) - And I just don't know why they matter as to how good he is on an NFL Field
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dplank
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:19 pm

Enough with the hissy fit already, geezus. I'm not going to bother running through all the stuff you misrepresent, misunderstood, or are just being plain untruthful about in this post. But it's laiden with misinformation.

You're simply on the wrong side here as of this moment, it's been shown to you a half dozen different ways but you aren't going to accept it - so be it. I'm not going to accept your rambling, misrepresentative post either nor take even more time trying to correct the record with you as you'll just twist it again and again. For example, using Lamar Jackson as an illustrative example of why you need to include a QB's running abilities in their evaluation in today's game (because you were ignoring Watson's rushing ability and only focused on passing stats) is not the same as saying that Watson's 400 yards rushing and Lamar Jackson's 1200 yards rushing are 'equivalent'. This is something I never said, you know, because it would be stupid. But you seem to like to paint others as stupid, even making up bad takes all on your own to do so. Here's the actual quote for proof that your lying:
Anyhow, point is it's tough comparing a "running QB" with a "passing QB". And it's straight up unfair to do so by only using passing metrics. Lamar Jackson was the MVP last year, he threw for about as many yards as Jacoby Brissett. Nuff said.
So there it is, lying laid bare for all to see. Why would I continue arguing with Gib jr?

Trivia question - guess which NFL player has been sacked over 40 times in each of the last 7 years! And has never rushed for over 400 yards once in his career either....

Hint: It's Russell Wilson. Guess he sux cause he takes too many sacks. Shinebox.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
RichH55
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:51 am

You know that Total Offense and Total Points would factor those things in? Right?

And Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson have VASTLY different running numbers. 1200 v 400 is like a HECKUVA difference? Right?

I'd note that Deshaun is more a QB that can run (and that must be accounted for) v. a more pure Running QB (which was what Lamar was last year ) - but I know we aren't allowed to note subtle things like that (I think this is ultimately a Plus for Watson )

Also - the Lamar's runs seemingly led to some points - Putting aside that Lamar threw for 36 TD (a much higher total than Watson) - I ASSUMED your point on Watson was that the Passing Yardage alone doesn't show the Impact since he does things with his legs that lead to Better Team Outcomes (Read: Points)

Of course, you will ignore that his penchant for taking extra sacks also does NOT show up in Passing Yardage or other stats - Because those don't count against Watson for some reason - They WOULD, presumably if taking more Sacks than other QB, hurt Scoring Offense though.

Texans were not Top 10 in Points Scored. Never addressed


Hence why I put ALL of these Factors into the Posts - Not hanging my hat on One Stat or One Game
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dplank
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:16 pm

Actually, you're wrong again! Get used to it. They are 12th in TEAM scoring, but that's only because they are counting DEFENSIVE and ST scores in that number! And like I said, their D isn't very good anymore.
Now, if I were a giant doucher I'd rail on and on about how Rich thinks Watson must suck at playing defense and returning punts and such, DRRRRHRRRRR, but I digress. If you measure only offense, they are 10th. In fact, measuring OFFENSIVE TD'S PER GAME as an average, they are at 2.7, which like I said is 10th. But....at 2.8 and just barely ahead of Watson is.....drum roll......Erin Rodgers and Russell Wilson are both at 2.8. So two super star QB's, one tenth PPG off. And top 10. Sooooo....Wilson has taken over 40 sacks a year for 7 straight years, and his offensive PPG last year was almost identical to Watson's offensive PPG.

It actually gets even worse for you. The last year before Watson took over at QB was 2016. Houston was 31st in the NFL, 2nd to last, in offensive PPG at a paltry 1.5! In 2017 they jump up to 2.2 PPG, up to 2.3 PPG in 2018, and jump up to 2.7 PPG and 10th place last year. So your whole narrative about them being just as good offensively with Osweiller and Hoyer is just false. Rather, it's what I said, their defense was MUCH better back then. We done here?

Here's the link: https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/o ... s-per-game


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Regarding Watson / Lamar Jackson, you still don't seem to understand how figurative language works. When I say, America is a melting pot, I don't mean that America is actually a boiling pot full of melting humans. I understand figurative language is difficult for certain people to comprehend, I'll try to stay away from it in future posts.
Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
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Yogi da Bear
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:34 pm

RichH55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:16 am
Actually - if you read the thread you will see Dplank bring up Chase an unconscionable amount of times. So that's what that was.
You know what Rich, I read back through the thread. Not only are you a total troll but a disingenuous dick.

DP brought up Chase first when he poked fun at himself when he listed Chase as the tenth best QB in the league. But then as you started losing the argument, you're the one who started bashing DP's take on Watson and comparing it to his take on Chase. You put him in a position to once again defend his take on Chase (a take that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Watson) and then have the fucking temerity to claim that it was DP who brought him up an "unconscionable amount of times," as though it was DP who initiated that argument.

You're a fucking lying twat who does this shit all the time. You're consistently trying to bring up past arguments to try to discredit the person you're arguing with rather than address the issue at hand. Hell, you just tried it with me in the Mingo bet when you brought up Acho. Unfortunately four you, you cut your own throat as you brought up a guy who played in over 40% of defensive snaps for two years before playing in over 60% of defensive snaps his third in an argument over whether a player is going to get 30% of the defensive snaps. Dumbass.

You do this crap all the time. And then you have the gall to try to blame the other person for bringing it up. Are you fucking kidding me.

My advice to DP is whenever he does something like this, just ask what I just did, "WTF does my take on Chase Daniel and Trubisky have to do with whether Deshaun Watson is a star." Call it out, because when Rich does this, he's deflecting because he's losing the argument. Hell, he already lost it. To say that Deshaun isn't a star is one of the most ridiculous takes I've ever heard.
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dplank
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:43 am

Yogi da Bear wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:34 pm
RichH55 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:16 am
Actually - if you read the thread you will see Dplank bring up Chase an unconscionable amount of times. So that's what that was.
You know what Rich, I read back through the thread. Not only are you a total troll but a disingenuous dick.

DP brought up Chase first when he poked fun at himself when he listed Chase as the tenth best QB in the league. But then as you started losing the argument, you're the one who started bashing DP's take on Watson and comparing it to his take on Chase. You put him in a position to once again defend his take on Chase (a take that has absolutely NOTHING to do with Watson) and then have the fucking temerity to claim that it was DP who brought him up an "unconscionable amount of times," as though it was DP who initiated that argument.

You're a fucking lying twat who does this shit all the time. You're consistently trying to bring up past arguments to try to discredit the person you're arguing with rather than address the issue at hand. Hell, you just tried it with me in the Mingo bet when you brought up Acho. Unfortunately four you, you cut your own throat as you brought up a guy who played in over 40% of defensive snaps for two years before playing in over 60% of defensive snaps his third in an argument over whether a player is going to get 30% of the defensive snaps. Dumbass.

You do this crap all the time. And then you have the gall to try to blame the other person for bringing it up. Are you fucking kidding me.

My advice to DP is whenever he does something like this, just ask what I just did, "WTF does my take on Chase Daniel and Trubisky have to do with whether Deshaun Watson is a star." Call it out, because when Rich does this, he's deflecting because he's losing the argument. Hell, he already lost it. To say that Deshaun isn't a star is one of the most ridiculous takes I've ever heard.
I'm just his most recent target, I've seen him do this to many different people over the years, with you and Gib being frequent targets. I shouldn't have taken the bait, I just have a hard time staying silent when someone starts lying/misrepresenting things like he does. Especially when he'll chase you around other threads with the same lie, potentially years later even (he's been lying about a few of Gib's takes for YEARS, i've even jumped in a few times to defend him for simple fairness sake). So I struggle just leaving it be because I know he'll start believing his own lie if it's not refuted and then will start chasing you around in all sorts of unrelated threads repeatedly making digs about it. Which then starts the whole cycle over again if you defend yourself and correct the record.

It's pathetic. I need to be better and just ignore it. This guy gets it....

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Chuck Pagano's defensive rankings in 6 years with Indy: 26th, 20th, 11th, 26th, 30th, and 30th.
RichH55
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:31 pm

Gib was still defending Joe Flacco as a Star years after the fact - Defending the terrible Jacoby Brissett contract

Is that where you want to be Dplank? I am most mercilous on the dumbest positions

Yogi is a frequent target because he will say something flippant (Seattle and Carroll caring about Character, Sam Acho being good, Jordan Matthews being good, Oakland being local to Seattle, etc, etc) and when called out - Double / Triple down

Don't do that.
RichH55
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:07 pm

Additional Watson Stuff (ALL from The Athletic)

I know what happens on the Field and Analytics/Analysis doesn't count but still:

1. Texans ranked 16th in Offensive Efficiency Last Season

2. There are multiple so-called All Encompassing QB Metrics (QBR, Any/A, DVOA, EPA) and Watson ranked between 7th and 12th on those list (7, 12, 12, 8 respectively)

He's apparently better against Zone than Man coverage

3. He produces a lot of negative plays - He was Sacked on 8.2% of Dropbacks and had 10 Fumbles (more on that in a bit)

"Overall, Watson produced a negative result (Sack, Fumble, or Interception ) 9.9% of the time". "Which ranked 24th"

4. Where he was good/great - Explosive plays (very, very on target deep ball for example) - and he ranked well for 3rd Down

Those are important - and among other things it is what makes Watsons game

5. He was sacked alot - Line?

Apparently not - Quoting again "But the numbers suggest that he had alot fot do with him trying to extend plays". Texans OL rated "8th in ESPN's Pass Blocking Win Rate Metric"

Athletic : They ACTUALLY do have a lot of quick throws built into the offense (42.4 % of the plays he got rid of the ball in 2.5 or less - 10th in the League)

RICH: Overall his average time holding onto the ball is lower than 10th - Suggesting that when he holds the ball - he REALLY holds the ball - This DIRECTLY impacts the number of Sacks

Rich Take : I think he thinks he is Superman - and he is that enough to justify it - but you see in the Playoffs that the Sack rate bumps UP because frankly he's trying to do too much .....When it works everyone seems the Highlights - When it doesn't 9.9% Negative Plays doesn't quite create the same Flashbulb Memory


6. Houston ranked 5th on Special Teams (Rich: That is actually sustainable)

They were 4th in Fumble Luck (Rich: This is NOT sustainable - Fumble Luck tends to have large year to year differences - it is INDEED Luck)

They were 8-3 in One Score Games (Rich: This also tends to not be very sustainable year to year - though if looking to give Watson extra 2019 "Clutch" Points - Fair enough - Though when you have two things 1. Good Record in One Score Games and 2. Allowed more points than you Scored - THAT tends to auger bad tidings).

Rich: The Division is still pretty meh (IMHO) but the strength of schedule is tougher this year (Athletic: 21st in Projected Strength of Schedule ). Rich (Note: 1st 8 Games more difficult than last 8 Games)


Just some discussion points. I know its not as fun as a Mock Draft
RichH55
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Re: Rodgers Trade? (Hypo)

Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:27 pm

Dplank: "The main indicator of W/L in today’s game is turnover margin"

"Overall, Watson produced a negative result (Sack, Fumble, or Interception ) 9.9% of the time". "Which ranked 24th"

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