Rd 1, #9 pick: Leonard Floyd, LB - Georgia

College football and the NFL Draft

Moderator: wab

User avatar
FaithInCutler
MVP
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:58 pm

wab wrote:If he doesn't get 10 sacks next year it'll be a massive disappointment. Christ...Houston can get 8 sacks in a rotation with a bad knee. If Floyd can't with all his supposed speed and explosion, I'll be even more salty than I am now.
I've been trying to put my thoughts into words all night.

You nailed it.
"dooooonnn'tt ccaaaaaaarrrreeeeeee" - Jay Cutler
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17891
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Lakeview, IL

The Bears have done body analysis on Floyd, but say they’ll keep him around 240 pounds or so.


What?
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 32 SEASONS

GM: Rick Smith // HC: Brian Flores
User avatar
FaithInCutler
MVP
Posts: 1687
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:58 pm

G08 wrote:The Bears have done body analysis on Floyd, but say they’ll keep him around 240 pounds or so.


What?
I'm reading similar stuff.. Pace said:

“It’s hard to find outside linebackers that can rush the passer but also have the versatility to drop into coverage,” Pace said. “And he can do that. What’s rare is when a guy is that tall and long and running down the field and he’s changing direction like that – you don’t see that very often so it’s very attractive.”

Pace cautioned against comparing Floyd to Smith, who developed into one of the NFL’s most feared pass rusher before mishandling off-field situations.

But Smith, unlike Willie Young for the Bears last season, was an every down player, albeit at 260+ pounds. Floyd is listed in the 240s and the Bears are wary of adding bulk on an assumption that he needs to be bigger to hold the point against the run. They envision him as an every down player as-is.


Sounds like they are planning on keeping him around 240-245... i don't get it.
"dooooonnn'tt ccaaaaaaarrrreeeeeee" - Jay Cutler
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 23887
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

So he's Dion Jordan. Super.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17891
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Lakeview, IL

How the fuck do you not need to be bigger than 240 lbs against the run when OTs weigh 310+? Because of LENGTH!?

I... am going to bed.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 32 SEASONS

GM: Rick Smith // HC: Brian Flores
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 23887
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Dude is definitely one of a kind. There's no other LB in the NFL at his height and weight.
User avatar
RING4CHI
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5235
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 pm
Location: Ames, IA

Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.
"Every team needs badasses." - Dan Hampton
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5567
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am

240? That's not expected. I figured they hoped to get him up to 250.

You put Floyd at 240 in a 4-3 were his coverage ability and pass rush can be inner mixed more, I understand it. For an every down 3-4 they are going to need a nasty 4I to keep him cleaner in the run game.

I am perplexed. As a fan I don't want to rag on him, but it on the surface seems so odd.

Question Beasley and Coleman, out White and Floyd?
User avatar
base615
Assistant Coach
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:00 pm

White and Floyd easily at this stage.

White hasn't yet played but all signs point to him being a stud. He was consensus top 10 and many felt he was the best in the draft. How someone can call him a swing and miss I don't understand. Injuries happen and he's, by all accounts, fully recovered and ready to hit the field and destroy.

Floyd, looks excellent in the role it seems we're planning to use him in (pure pass rusher). People point to the sack numbers thinking he was purely OLB but that's just not the case. He was used at ILB and nickel corner a lot. People point to him not being good against the run due to his weight but he graded out top 5 against the run. People say he can't be an every down player but that flies in the face of evidence where he barely left the field at Georgia.

This is a decent assessment from the Eagles: " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm pretty willing to give Fox and Fangio the benefit of the doubt when it comes to assessing pass rushers and both of them apparently love Floyd. I reckon the meltdown on this pick is approaching the level of meltdown when Kyle Long was picked and we know how that turned out.

Meanwhile, Vic Beasley has been a massive flop while Coleman definitely looks good but unlikely to be at White's level based on their college tape.
User avatar
FireBrand
MVP
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:50 am

This scouting report is probably similar to what the Bears saw: http://www.scout.com/nfl/bears/story/16 ... nard-floyd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"It's hard to measure what's behind that left nipple" - John Fox
User avatar
base615
Assistant Coach
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:00 pm

FireBrand wrote:This scouting report is probably similar to what the Bears saw: http://www.scout.com/nfl/bears/story/16 ... nard-floyd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Can't see it mate, premium access only.

What's the general gist of it?
Last edited by base615 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.

You can't even be fucking serious. Jesus Christ.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
FireBrand
MVP
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:50 am

base615 wrote:
FireBrand wrote:This scouting report is probably similar to what the Bears saw: http://www.scout.com/nfl/bears/story/16 ... nard-floyd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Can't see it mate, premium access only.

What's the general gist of it?
I was able to see by pulling it up through the Twitter app on my phone. @BearReport is where you will find it.

It obviously praises his athleticism, as every other scouting report does. What caught my eye is that it says he's good at shedding blockers and he's actually a high motor guy, giving full effort on each play, running plays down from the backside when the play doesn't come toward him. He also had good awareness/instincts and can turn and run with recivers.

He actually liked his strength, even though he believed he was too small. Tackling is also an issue, but this report had very little negative to say about him.
"It's hard to measure what's behind that left nipple" - John Fox
User avatar
UOK
Site Admin
Posts: 22862
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am
Location: Champaign, IL

You guys are such drags sometimes.
"None of us are in the board room, locker room, or on the sideline, so in a way, we don't know shit."
- Otis Day
ysleblanc
MVP
Posts: 1949
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:07 am

RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.

I haven't seen anything from White that tells me swing and a miss, not sure where you get that?

I'm not a fan of Floyd at #8. Maybe if he slides and we trade back and add more high picks and grab him around 20...not a fan of trading up for him...I hope I'm wrong. Loved the White pick, not so much Floyd.

I know Tunsil has a weird family situation, and weird friends, but he is a stud player, if I trade up for anybody, it's him.
User avatar
base615
Assistant Coach
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:00 pm

ysleblanc wrote:
RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.

I haven't seen anything from White that tells me swing and a miss, not sure where you get that?

I'm not a fan of Floyd at #8. Maybe if he slides and we trade back and add more high picks and grab him around 20...not a fan of trading up for him...I hope I'm wrong. Loved the White pick, not so much Floyd.

I know Tunsil has a weird family situation, and weird friends, but he is a stud player, if I trade up for anybody, it's him.
Apparently he was top of the Giants' board so we were forced to leapfrog them to get the guy we wanted.

The thing I don't understand about the Floyd criticism, both the pick itself and the trade up (not necessarily from you but it seems there's a big meltdown in process) is that Bears fans have been consistently complaining about a few things over the past season or so:
  • Our pass rush is too much of the same and we need a speed guy across from McPhee / Houston for variety
  • We've had guys who seem to take plays off on occasion
  • We missed out on Donald / Williams by 1 draft pick by not being aggressive and moving up for our guy
This pick, and the way it went down, fix those concerns exactly:
  • He's extremely quick and agile off the edge, the antithesis of McPhee and Houston so we can switch things around according to the situation.
  • He's high motor and never fails to put the effort in. He's performed at a high level in various positions.
  • We went up to get our guy and ensure we didn't miss out
I feel that Bears fans are conditioned to be critical automatically and that's understandable due to our history of poor drafting but my view is that this regime seems to be different and has earned my trust based on their performance to date.

I think we should give this guy a chance to show us what he can do on the field before we write him off. I anticipate that he may prove a few doubters wrong.
User avatar
FireBrand
MVP
Posts: 1216
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:50 am

I'm starting to warm up to the pick. Need more Kool Aid.
"It's hard to measure what's behind that left nipple" - John Fox
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9050
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Berwyn, IL

wab wrote:Floyd is a bad fit for this defense. He'll struggle to stay at an NFL weight and he'll struggle to get off blocks. He's no more than a 3rd down player.

He's Dion Jordan, but Jordan was a better prospect. Mingo was a better prospect. Beasley was a better prospect. Gregory was a better prospect. And all of those guys have struggled because they are gangly and weak.

I think that NFL conditioning can do a lot. But when I look at a player for the potential to put weight on his frame, I look at the hips and shoulders. Is the player naturally broad, but just have an under developed physique, or is he thin and wiry with no real potential to add weight. I look at Floyd and he has narrow shoulders and normal hips. There is nothing on him that tells me he can bulk up to 260 - 270. That being said, if he IS effective off the edge in 3rd down situations, then fine. We have Aaron Rodgers and Matt Stafford twice a year. If he can pound Erin into the ground a few times a year, then it was worth it.

I also put a lot of faith in Vic Fangio. I HAVE to assume that Pace and Fox approached Fangio and said, "who do you like and why." I think Fangio has plans for this kid. My suggestion is sit back and wait to see what Vic has in store for this kid.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9050
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Berwyn, IL

RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.
Swing and a miss the second year in a row??! They knew last year was a rebuilding year. They got White the treatment he needed, and didn't rush him back out onto the field. You haven't even watched him play a down in a Bears uniform. Now if he is injured for half of the season this year, then fine. Swing and a miss, but you haven't seen him play jack shit yet.

As for Floyd. Yes, they do see something you're not. That's why they are the GM, Head Coach and DC. And you're not. I am going to wait until the first couple games of the year to pass judgement.

Jesus H. Christ...what a bunch of Debbie Downers.
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Floyd is a bad fit for this defense. He'll struggle to stay at an NFL weight and he'll struggle to get off blocks. He's no more than a 3rd down player.

He's Dion Jordan, but Jordan was a better prospect. Mingo was a better prospect. Beasley was a better prospect. Gregory was a better prospect. And all of those guys have struggled because they are gangly and weak.

I think that NFL conditioning can do a lot. But when I look at a player for the potential to put weight on his frame, I look at the hips and shoulders. Is the player naturally broad, but just have an under developed physique, or is he thin and wiry with no real potential to add weight. I look at Floyd and he has narrow shoulders and normal hips. There is nothing on him that tells me he can bulk up to 260 - 270. That being said, if he IS effective off the edge in 3rd down situations, then fine. We have Aaron Rodgers and Matt Stafford twice a year. If he can pound Erin into the ground a few times a year, then it was worth it.

I also put a lot of faith in Vic Fangio. I HAVE to assume that Pace and Fox approached Fangio and said, "who do you like and why." I think Fangio has plans for this kid. My suggestion is sit back and wait to see what Vic has in store for this kid.
You'll be happy to know that the Bears have already come out and said that they plan to play him at 240 pounds.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
UOK
Site Admin
Posts: 22862
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am
Location: Champaign, IL

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.
Swing and a miss the second year in a row??! They knew last year was a rebuilding year. They got White the treatment he needed, and didn't rush him back out onto the field. You haven't even watched him play a down in a Bears uniform. Now if he is injured for half of the season this year, then fine. Swing and a miss, but you haven't seen him play jack shit yet.

As for Floyd. Yes, they do see something you're not. That's why they are the GM, Head Coach and DC. And you're not. I am going to wait until the first couple games of the year to pass judgement.

Jesus H. Christ...what a bunch of Debbie Downers.
Seriously. I'm kind of disappointed in some of the reactions. Maybe we're all just trained to react negatively after years of bullshit.
"None of us are in the board room, locker room, or on the sideline, so in a way, we don't know shit."
- Otis Day
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5567
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am

I don't think being critical is necessarily bad. The Bears took a guy in the top 10 who on the surface screams potential bust. A guy who seemingly fits a different style of defense.

Yes he will give the desired athleticism off the edge. He has a high motor. He can cover. Her does a lot of things well. But to say anyone right now sees the fit, is crazy.

That is okay. I think we all have faith in the staff. We don't really know about the gm yet but we hope.

Tunsil was the better bet in my opinion.
User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Posts: 15556
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
Location: The Bear Nebula
Contact:

UOK wrote:Seriously. I'm kind of disappointed in some of the reactions. Maybe we're all just trained to react negatively after years of bullshit.

a lot of the negative reaction is due to the fact I don't think anyone was really overly enthused about Floyd to begin with so trading up to get him only exasperated the issue

my take on Floyd is I look upon him as a luxury item - a part time situational player who can have some impact ... and my negative reaction was there were other basic needs that I thought should have had a higher priority

so I'm willing to wait and see what develops and hope for the best in spite of not having high expectations
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin

Image
BLOG : Emissions from the Bears Nebula
User avatar
RING4CHI
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5235
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 pm
Location: Ames, IA

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:but you haven't seen him play jack shit yet.
Which is why there's nothing to go on to say it was a good pick.

If there's one position that needs to be on the field during their rookie season, it's wide receivers. I can't think of a WR who missed their entire first year, and bounced back from it. White is so far behind the 8-ball, it's hard to get excited that he'll bounce back.

Fair or not, White missing his rookie season falls on Pace. Then moving up to take a situational player. It's hard to get behind Pace's small sample size of draft picks right now.
"Every team needs badasses." - Dan Hampton
User avatar
UOK
Site Admin
Posts: 22862
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am
Location: Champaign, IL

If he whiffs on Floyd but rounds 2-7 produce 3-4 starters over the next couple years, then Pace is already ahead of the damned curve.
"None of us are in the board room, locker room, or on the sideline, so in a way, we don't know shit."
- Otis Day
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17891
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Lakeview, IL

UOK wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
RING4CHI wrote:Unless this staff sees something we're not seeing (by god I hope they do), looks like Pace swung and miss on the first round pick for the second year in a row.
Swing and a miss the second year in a row??! They knew last year was a rebuilding year. They got White the treatment he needed, and didn't rush him back out onto the field. You haven't even watched him play a down in a Bears uniform. Now if he is injured for half of the season this year, then fine. Swing and a miss, but you haven't seen him play jack shit yet.

As for Floyd. Yes, they do see something you're not. That's why they are the GM, Head Coach and DC. And you're not. I am going to wait until the first couple games of the year to pass judgement.

Jesus H. Christ...what a bunch of Debbie Downers.
Seriously. I'm kind of disappointed in some of the reactions. Maybe we're all just trained to react negatively after years of bullshit.
I don't care for the "swung and missed for a second year in a row" crap, but people that have studied prospects that don't like him should voice that opinion, I would think. I just want it to be backed up with facts/evidence/comparisons.

I wanted Tunsil, I'm on record with that.


This kid, strictly looking at the metrics, is Shea McClellin with a little more explosion.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 32 SEASONS

GM: Rick Smith // HC: Brian Flores
Road
Pro Bowler
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:31 pm
Location: Polar Vortex

Great pick! Keep an open mind people! This kids going to have Erin looking out his earhole! I think Pace, Fox & Fangio know exactly wtf they’re doing. They were in need of a speed rusher and went after it. I just hope they got what they were after.
I hope the pseudonym McFloyd isn’t hung on him if he starts taking too wide a rush and ends up 5 yards behind the QB.
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3377
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

G08 wrote: This kid, strictly looking at the metrics, is Shea McClellin with a little more explosion.

Other than fan disdain for the pick - I'm not sure that these two have much in common. Shea played more DE than OLB, and Floyd played as much at ILB as anything. Floyd is the much more explosive athlete (the difference in vertical and broad are pretty significant) while Shea had the edge in experience as a pass-rusher. Floyd played a much tougher level of competition.

Image
Image


Image
Image
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17891
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Lakeview, IL

Look more closelier

McClellin: 1.59/2.69/4.75
31.5 vert
9'10" broad
4.33 shuttle
7.07 cone

Floyd: 1.59/2.68/4.60
39.5" vert
10'07 broad
4.32 shuttle
7.18 cone

Similar 10/20 splits, similar shuttle, similar cone. Floyd has a better broad & vert, hence: more explosive Shea McClellin
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN 32 SEASONS

GM: Rick Smith // HC: Brian Flores
User avatar
Pagan
MVP
Posts: 1400
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:19 am
Location: South Bend, Indiana

There's nothing wrong with be skeptical... But there should be plenty of room for optimism. The scouts have broken down every play from dozens of players. If what Pace said is true, there was a consensus from all of their scouts on this player. He fits exactly what Coach Fox and Fangio wanted in a edge rusher.

That's all that needs to be said.

Comparisons to McClellan or White are ridiculous and completely unfounded.

Many of us spent a bunch of time scouting players on our own and need to come to grips with the fact that:
1) We're NOT NFL scouts
2) We do not fully understand the Fox/Fangio defense.

Anyone wanting to bitch about picks from previous seasons players should do so on another thread with the appropriate title, because they are useless here.
Image
Post Reply