Rd 1, #9 pick: Leonard Floyd, LB - Georgia

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G08 wrote:This kid, strictly looking at the metrics, is Shea McClellin with a little more explosion.
But that's the thing. People look at the position he's listed at - edge rusher, look at his sack number etc and don't see the correlation they want. He was moved around into such a wide variety of positions (he spent time at 3-4 OLB, 3-4 ILB, 4-3 DE, 4-3 OLB, 4-3 MLB, nickel corner and safety) that his stats don't tally up with someone who's played pure pass rush. When he's rushed the passer as a 3-4 OLB he's been pretty devastating in the role.

On the surface Tunsil looks like a strong value pick at that spot but I believe that Leno will push on this year and solidify that spot and, given the Tunsil dramas, I doubt Pac would be keen to take that sort of thing on after the Ray McDonald, Jay Ratliff debacles.
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I think at the root of why the pick upset me is because I’m still not over Leonard Williams. I know it’s a different year and I know all drafts are different. But Pace was on record last year saying it was too expensive to move up in the draft. And that was for someone who was universally considered the best prospect in the draft. A full time 5T that this team desperately needed. A 5T that has effectively rendered Wilkerson (arguably the second best 5T in the NFL) expendable. It was a perfect symbiosis of need and value. This year, the price to move up one spot was a penance. But it was for what by all accounts seems to be a part time player.

My initial reasoning for hating the pick is, admittedly, stupid. Jilted lover-ish. But it is what it is.

I'm not so much concerned over Floyd's production. It was similar to Jaylon Smith, who I think was a top 5 prospect in the draft. Smith and Floyd were used similarly in college. At LB, DE, DB...they are both very versatile. So that's not a concern really.

Overall, looking at the big picture, what confuses me about the pick is really less about Floyd and more about the apparent lack of vision for what this team is supposed to be. It's a conglomeration of different schemes on both sides of the ball. We have one giant 5T type, and two squatty little ones. We have two 275 OLB's and now one undersized, one dimensional one. Are we a pass blocking team with Charles Leno and Hroniss Grasu, or are we a rugged run blocking team with Slausen, Ramirez, Long, and Massie? It would be one thing if the team was phasing out players that didn't seem to fit the scheme, but they seem to be adding more random parts to the mix.

I get that they want their Von Miller/Aldon Smith type. But that AIN'T this guy. There was one player that almost everyone agreed would get overdrafted, and that was Floyd. The problem is that it is a very underwhelming crop of pass rushers. I can't fault them for seeing Floyd as the best, I just don't think the value of the pick met how the player will be used.

TL;DR - Need/Value/Blah Blah Blah wab is still butthurt over Leonard Williams.
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wab wrote:I think at the root of why the pick upset me is because I’m still not over Leonard Williams. I know it’s a different year and I know all drafts are different. But Pace was on record last year saying it was too expensive to move up in the draft. And that was for someone who was universally considered the best prospect in the draft. A full time 5T that this team desperately needed. A 5T that has effectively rendered Wilkerson (arguably the second best 5T in the NFL) expendable. It was a perfect symbiosis of need and value. This year, the price to move up one spot was a penance. But it was for what by all accounts seems to be a part time player.

My initial reasoning for hating the pick is, admittedly, stupid. Jilted lover-ish. But it is what it is.

I'm not so much concerned over Floyd's production. It was similar to Jaylon Smith, who I think was a top 5 prospect in the draft. Smith and Floyd were used similarly in college. At LB, DE, DB...they are both very versatile. So that's not a concern really.

Overall, looking at the big picture, what confuses me about the pick is really less about Floyd and more about the apparent lack of vision for what this team is supposed to be. It's a conglomeration of different schemes on both sides of the ball. We have one giant 5T type, and two squatty little ones. We have two 275 OLB's and now one undersized, one dimensional one. Are we a pass blocking team with Charles Leno and Hroniss Grasu, or are we a rugged run blocking team with Slausen, Ramirez, Long, and Massie? It would be one thing if the team was phasing out players that didn't seem to fit the scheme, but they seem to be adding more random parts to the mix.

I get that they want their Von Miller/Aldon Smith type. But that AIN'T this guy. There was one player that almost everyone agreed would get overdrafted, and that was Floyd. The problem is that it is a very underwhelming crop of pass rushers. I can't fault them for seeing Floyd as the best, I just don't think the value of the pick met how the player will be used.

TL;DR - Need/Value/Blah Blah Blah wab is still butthurt over Leonard Williams.

lol... Well said.
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The Leonard Williams thing we have to remember is that we were short on picks last year and Pace knew he needed to reshape this roster. Ostensibly, it would have cost us Langford or Amos. Is that a big deal? Probably not (you know how badly I wanted Williams).

I get the logic of this pick and like I said in the draft room this kid has pass rushes that literally made me say "Wow" out loud. He's explosive. He's just not strong and if a lineman gets his hands on him it's over. Can you coach better technique? Sure. Get him stronger? Absolutely. You can't teach his athleticism and that elite burst, however.

I will say this: if you plan on playing TE stunts and twists with him you'd better get a mother fucking rock at 5T across from Akiem Hicks. Robinson would be oh so beautiful. Oh. So. Beautiful.

I'll also settle for Reed or Chris Jones.
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Last year the picks were more precious because the Bears were in much greater need of immediate influx of young talent, thus required every pick they could get, ALSO that the Bears were picking inside of the top 10 in every round.

This year the roster is more refined, so luxury is inside of the team's scope.

Call me crazy, but I have faith in this GM/coaching staff/etc. I'm willing to delay judgment.
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I feel "better" about the pick today I guess. But he's still behind McPhee, Houston, Young, and Acho on the depth chart and that's a tough pill to swallow for the 9th overall pick in the draft. If they cut/trade Houston or Young I'll better still.

I hope he can be like Aldon Smith at get 15 sacks as a rookie on 3rd downs. I really really do. I also wish he was as big/fast/strong as Smith.
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[video][/video]

Dirty.
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[video][/video]

I was under the impression Shea McClellin would be doing this as well, but still I love the burst.
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RING4CHI wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:but you haven't seen him play jack shit yet.
Which is why there's nothing to go on to say it was a good pick.

If there's one position that needs to be on the field during their rookie season, it's wide receivers. I can't think of a WR who missed their entire first year, and bounced back from it. White is so far behind the 8-ball, it's hard to get excited that he'll bounce back.

Fair or not, White missing his rookie season falls on Pace. Then moving up to take a situational player. It's hard to get behind Pace's small sample size of draft picks right now.

How can Pace be blamed for a rookie WR getting hurt after the draft and missing his 1st year?

A team can pick the best player in history ad he gets hurt and misses a year, it's a sport, not checkers...
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Just listened to a pretty good podcast analyzing the first round. They mentioned that one of the reasons teams were looking at Floyd as a high first pick is because he has incredible football instincts and IQ. They said that Georgia played him all over the field because they knew he had the football intelligence to match his physical ability.

So that was nice to hear.
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ysleblanc wrote:
RING4CHI wrote:Fair or not, White missing his rookie season falls on Pace. Then moving up to take a situational player. It's hard to get behind Pace's small sample size of draft picks right now.

How can Pace be blamed for a rookie WR getting hurt after the draft and missing his 1st year?

A team can pick the best player in history ad he gets hurt and misses a year, it's a sport, not checkers...
Agreed. IIRC, there were no medical red flags on White at all. Sometimes stuff just happens -- you can't blame that on Pace.
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wab wrote: But he's still behind McPhee, Houston, Young, and Acho on the depth chart and that's a tough pill to swallow for the 9th overall pick in the draft. If they cut/trade Houston or Young I'll better still.
I'm trying to figure out how the Bears benefit from cutting Houston or Young. We already have $22m in cap space and no free agents to target. Teams will cut players after the draft but... are those players going to be worth big contracts? Are those players going to be impact players?
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It's that time of year that I chime in based on feelings and 17th hand knowledge....So, no I'm not a draft expert...

This is a good thread and what the boards should be. People sharing their thoughts and opinions about the CHICAGO BEARS. if we all agreed we could make a new thread and just lock it.

As for Floyd...my initial disappointment was the trade up more than the player. I'm fine with Floyd, but wasn't enamored with him enough to trade up like I would have for others in years past. I think several of us thought we moved up for Tunsil.... Could have gone with a HIGHER joke there but refrained, unlike Tunsil. When you draft this high you have to get extreme quality, if not superstar. If you don't it's remembered, unfairly or not, as a bust. I

That being said, Floyd has several traits and plenty of film in areas that we need. I was disappointed but he's a Chicago Bear now and I want him to succeed.

One of the things that I know I and others who were disappointed mentioned was that we do trust Fangio, Fox and Pace and if they were convinced he was their guy, then kudos for getting him this time.

Additionally, let's see who we get with the early second round pick because that can help smooth over a lot of this. For instance, if we get one of the three Jones, Robinson or Reed it would be a very solid pick up. If someone said we could have Robinson and Floyd for the cost of a 4th I would've jumped all over it. So I agree, let the draft play out, let these guys get on the field and let's hope that they are worthy of being Chicago Bears picks and players.
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Hiphopopotamos wrote:Just listened to a pretty good podcast analyzing the first round. They mentioned that one of the reasons teams were looking at Floyd as a high first pick is because he has incredible football instincts and IQ. They said that Georgia played him all over the field because they knew he had the football intelligence to match his physical ability.

So that was nice to hear.
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crueltyabc wrote:
wab wrote: But he's still behind McPhee, Houston, Young, and Acho on the depth chart and that's a tough pill to swallow for the 9th overall pick in the draft. If they cut/trade Houston or Young I'll better still.
I'm trying to figure out how the Bears benefit from cutting Houston or Young. We already have $22m in cap space and no free agents to target. Teams will cut players after the draft but... are those players going to be worth big contracts? Are those players going to be impact players?
I don't think there's any reason to cut either of those guys. But at least I'd feel better about the plan for Floyd instead of just knowing he'll be a bit player.

Floyd needs to become one of of the best pass rushers in the NFL inside of 2 years for this not to be a giant whiff.
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Chifaninca wrote: ... As for Floyd...my initial disappointment was the trade up more than the player. I'm fine with Floyd, but wasn't enamored with him enough to trade up like I would have for others in years past ...
Understood but from what I've been reading, NY was absolutely going to take him at 10 and since (unlike last year) we had the extra 4th, I was cool with the trade up. I really do believe Fangio and Fox are going to do good things with this kid.
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Good example of just how fast Floyd can be off the ball - and how quickly he covers ground


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IotaNet wrote:
Chifaninca wrote: ... As for Floyd...my initial disappointment was the trade up more than the player. I'm fine with Floyd, but wasn't enamored with him enough to trade up like I would have for others in years past ...
Understood but from what I've been reading, NY was absolutely going to take him at 10 and since (unlike last year) we had the extra 4th, I was cool with the trade up. I really do believe Fangio and Fox are going to do good things with this kid.

I trust Fangio and Fox to know what they are doing... so I agree.

As for the trade up cause the Giants were going to take him....I understand that. Would've been ok with that. Would have jumped all over Tunsil and said worth the risk at the point, ou got the # 1 projected player (Till the QB trades) at the 11th pick and can go all defense the rest of the draft if you want. You picked up an above average every down player in one of the most important spots of your offense...

But, I'm not privy to the thinking on Floyd or Tunsil and the plans they had for them. So, as you point out, I'll trust in Fangio and Fox and Pace.
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Hiphopopotamos wrote:Good example of just how fast Floyd can be off the ball - and how quickly he covers ground


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HipHop.....

I appreciate the effort and have seen several good clips of him exploding into the backfield or chasing a guy down from behind.

But that clip you posted only showed me he can run to the outside of the play very fast and have zero impact on the play. We've got guys who do that now....lol. He's fast, he's furious, he's talented....I think G08 said it best...I don't care about any of that if it doesn't translate to sacks and making plays.
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Chifaninca wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:Good example of just how fast Floyd can be off the ball - and how quickly he covers ground


" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HipHop.....

I appreciate the effort and have seen several good clips of him exploding into the backfield or chasing a guy down from behind.

But that clip you posted only showed me he can run to the outside of the play very fast and have zero impact on the play. We've got guys who do that now....lol. He's fast, he's furious, he's talented....I think G08 said it best...I don't care about any of that if it doesn't translate to sacks and making plays.

That play is one step and a throw from the shotgun - there isn't a pass rusher in the world thats going to get to the QB that quickly.

The point is that he has an elite first step / get-off. He's got what you can't coach - now he needs Hurtt/Fangio to turn him into a more complete player.
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crueltyabc wrote:
wab wrote: But he's still behind McPhee, Houston, Young, and Acho on the depth chart and that's a tough pill to swallow for the 9th overall pick in the draft. If they cut/trade Houston or Young I'll better still.
I'm trying to figure out how the Bears benefit from cutting Houston or Young. We already have $22m in cap space and no free agents to target. Teams will cut players after the draft but... are those players going to be worth big contracts? Are those players going to be impact players?
Jerffery and Long.

I don't want to see either of them cut. Young must have some trade value (plus he's still a very good option to get after the QB on pass rush downs) plus I think Houston is going to have a good year whilst also spelling McPhee so they're both fresh. But...

We definitely want Jeffery and Long long term, freeing up space this year to front load them keeps our flexibility in the future and helps us towards the goal of being a perennial play-off team.

So yeah, we don't need to and I don't want us to as I think we could go all the way this year (I don't expect us to! Super low percentage shot) or at the least get to the playoffs and get this younger roster some invaluable experience. But it wouldn't be the worst thing.
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http://draftbreakdown.com/players/leonard-floyd/


6 scouting tapes on Floyd. He's can be seen playing positions all over the field which certainly hurts his sack #'s. When he's covering a RB, TE or even a slot recieved on pass routes he seems to keep very tight coverage. I wasn't expecting that.

He has very good snap anticipation and a huge first step. For being a lighter weighted pass rusher Floyd has such fast hands most Tackles have a hard time keeping their hands on him- Except for when they're caught off guard, which is often. There are many holding calls made & missed against those who are trying to block him.

I'll post more thoughts on what I see from Floyd later.
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He has elicited some "wow"s from me on a few of his rushes. He has an explosive first step, but what does he do when a lineman gets his hands on him... that's what worries me.
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Something I don't think anyone else has brought up...

The consensus seems to be that the Bears biggest defensive weakness last year was lack of sacks. I felt that a problem at least as great was the complete lack of a LB (I or O) that could defend against the pass other than by unsuccessfully attempting a sack. One of the three hallmarks of a successful 3-4 defense is linebackers that can play in coverage (and getting sacks is not one of the three).

This guy seems to be able to successfully play the pass in both ways. I always preferred the KoolAid that you add your own sugar to.
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Hiphopopotamos wrote:
Chifaninca wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:Good example of just how fast Floyd can be off the ball - and how quickly he covers ground


" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HipHop.....

I appreciate the effort and have seen several good clips of him exploding into the backfield or chasing a guy down from behind.

But that clip you posted only showed me he can run to the outside of the play very fast and have zero impact on the play. We've got guys who do that now....lol. He's fast, he's furious, he's talented....I think G08 said it best...I don't care about any of that if it doesn't translate to sacks and making plays.

That play is one step and a throw from the shotgun - there isn't a pass rusher in the world thats going to get to the QB that quickly.

The point is that he has an elite first step / get-off. He's got what you can't coach - now he needs Hurtt/Fangio to turn him into a more complete player.

Agreed. No one was getting there. Don't get me wrong...I see the why and understand the potential...Maybe I'm having Bears Fan Letdown Syndrome .... The first round in the past decade plus has not been boom or bust... I'm hoping it's Boom.
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FWIW Bill Polian was saying how he loved the pick, said it was the perfect draft pick for the Chicago Bears and Vic Fangio's defense.
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What I don't get is he's same weight as Jaylon Smith and everyone was all over him before injury. Why is he all of a sudden to light, where Smith wasn't?
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Smith has a little room to grow and had less problems getting up to 245. Floyd couldn't get that high. Smith is purely better. Smith also was thought in am ILB roll originally.
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Smith was down to 225 after his surgery. Before that he was pushing 255. Floyd can get to 255 if he carries a 30b bag of dogfood out of PetCo.
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malk wrote:
crueltyabc wrote:
wab wrote: But he's still behind McPhee, Houston, Young, and Acho on the depth chart and that's a tough pill to swallow for the 9th overall pick in the draft. If they cut/trade Houston or Young I'll better still.
I'm trying to figure out how the Bears benefit from cutting Houston or Young. We already have $22m in cap space and no free agents to target. Teams will cut players after the draft but... are those players going to be worth big contracts? Are those players going to be impact players?
Jerffery and Long.

I don't want to see either of them cut. Young must have some trade value (plus he's still a very good option to get after the QB on pass rush downs) plus I think Houston is going to have a good year whilst also spelling McPhee so they're both fresh. But...

We definitely want Jeffery and Long long term, freeing up space this year to front load them keeps our flexibility in the future and helps us towards the goal of being a perennial play-off team.

So yeah, we don't need to and I don't want us to as I think we could go all the way this year (I don't expect us to! Super low percentage shot) or at the least get to the playoffs and get this younger roster some invaluable experience. But it wouldn't be the worst thing.
Why on earth would we need to free up cap space? Jeffrey already counts $15m in our cap, Long is signed to his 5th year option and we still have more than $26m in available cap space - one of the highest in the league.
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