QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:52 am

LOL at you guys for trying to defend the second coming of Jay Cutler.
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crueltyabc
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:10 am

1. If we could start over with a 21 year old Jay Cutler making under $8m a year, I would be damn excited for this team
2. I came into this thread wanting to say that I really like the personality and media presence of Mahomes. Considering what PR has meant for Jay's career, I think that's a pretty significant difference between the two QBs.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:14 am

Adipost wrote:LOL at you guys for trying to defend the second coming of Jay Cutler.
But then you turn around and advocate for Kizer?
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:21 am

We need a bit more reason in this thread. Where you at G08?
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:22 am

crueltyabc wrote:1. If we could start over with a 21 year old Jay Cutler making under $8m a year, I would be damn excited for this team
2. I came into this thread wanting to say that I really like the personality and media presence of Mahomes. Considering what PR has meant for Jay's career, I think that's a pretty significant difference between the two QBs.
Mahomes definitely presents an image of a guy who ACTUALLY cares... as his father was a professional for 11 years, I am sure he has advised him on how to handle the media and reporters. And I am not saying Cutler doesn't care about football or the team, just the image he presents makes most people believe he doesn't. And maybe that's just his personality but the city of Chicago and Bears fans wanted to love him but he always seemed more put off by that than happy at the acceptance. I could see Mahomes smiling wide as crowds showed him love. And he just looks like he has fun playing the game.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:22 am

wab wrote:
Adipost wrote:LOL at you guys for trying to defend the second coming of Jay Cutler.
But then you turn around and advocate for Kizer?
Cause you see, Kizer's problems can be fixed, Mahomes can't... cause Adipost says so...
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:23 am

I think they both need work.

I like Mahomes more personally... better arm and more athletic. Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble.

If Mahomes is the move in round 2, he has to sit for at least 8-10 games to work on mechanics and learning an NFL offense. More likely that he would need to sit for the season. Kizer you could probably throw into the fire a little bit sooner if you're convinced his mechanics have been hammered out. That's hard to do when you're developing and getting pressured in live action.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:31 am

G08 wrote:I think they both need work.

I like Mahomes more personally... better arm and more athletic. Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble.

If Mahomes is the move in round 2, he has to sit for at least 8-10 games to work on mechanics and learning an NFL offense. More likely that he would need to sit for the season. Kizer you could probably throw into the fire a little bit sooner if you're convinced his mechanics have been hammered out. That's hard to do when you're developing and getting pressured in live action.
From what you've seen, do you think Mahomes reads the field well?
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:44 am

Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:I think they both need work.

I like Mahomes more personally... better arm and more athletic. Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble.

If Mahomes is the move in round 2, he has to sit for at least 8-10 games to work on mechanics and learning an NFL offense. More likely that he would need to sit for the season. Kizer you could probably throw into the fire a little bit sooner if you're convinced his mechanics have been hammered out. That's hard to do when you're developing and getting pressured in live action.
From what you've seen, do you think Mahomes reads the field well?
These questions are always difficult to answer because we don't know the play-call and the reads that are within the playcall. Plus he played in that Air-Raid system which doesn't really translate well to the NFL (see: Goff, Jared).

I think those things can be developed with experience, but I can't sit here and say he reads the field like Tom Brady. I like him a lot though (hell I started this thread back in October :lol:) Dude just has a lot of rough edges that need to be smoothed out.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:35 pm

G08 wrote:I think they both need work.

I like Mahomes more personally... better arm and more athletic. Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble.

If Mahomes is the move in round 2, he has to sit for at least 8-10 games to work on mechanics and learning an NFL offense. More likely that he would need to sit for the season. Kizer you could probably throw into the fire a little bit sooner if you're convinced his mechanics have been hammered out. That's hard to do when you're developing and getting pressured in live action.
My first impression is sloppy video game type player. But as you keep watching, he demands your attention. You're not going to "fix" him mechanically in season. He needs to sit and learn the system. With that said, I think he is a player that will never have great mechanics and he may not need them. I agree with this statement "Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble." I would also like to add they can get you out of trouble as well. I'll hop on board the Mahomes train and see how he performs at the combine. This kid has something!
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:38 pm

Funkster wrote:
G08 wrote:I think they both need work.

I like Mahomes more personally... better arm and more athletic. Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble.

If Mahomes is the move in round 2, he has to sit for at least 8-10 games to work on mechanics and learning an NFL offense. More likely that he would need to sit for the season. Kizer you could probably throw into the fire a little bit sooner if you're convinced his mechanics have been hammered out. That's hard to do when you're developing and getting pressured in live action.
My first impression is sloppy video game type player. But as you keep watching, he demands your attention. You're not going to "fix" him mechanically in season. He needs to sit and learn the system. With that said, I think he is a player that will never have great mechanics and he may not need them. I agree with this statement "Plus he has that cut-throat gunslinger mentality that I inherently love, but those dudes can get you in a lot of trouble." I would also like to add they can get you out of trouble as well. I'll hop on board the Mahomes train and see how he performs at the combine. This kid has something!
With this, the two plays I remember the most in the ASU and Oklahoma games that stood out to me were when he kept his head enough while getting hit to switch the ball over to his left hand and find a way to get the ball out of bounds rather than take the sack... just kind of a crafty veteran move
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:17 pm

At least one draftnik on twitter had Mahomes as his top QB

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As well as Ian Rapaport hearing that some talent evaluators consider Mahomes the top QB in the draft

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/ ... pheadlines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This year is going to be a major "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" type of draft at QB.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:00 pm

I'm at the stage now where if we're going to take a QB at #3 I'd still go with Mahomes. But I really want a trade down first.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:10 pm

malk wrote:I'm at the stage now where if we're going to take a QB at #3 I'd still go with Mahomes. But I really want a trade down first.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:12 pm

I think he's the best QB in this draft. I don't want a QB at #3 but if it happens I want the best guy not the one who fits the pick best.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:35 pm

My head is completely fuckin' spun around at this point. I'm watching clips of Mahomes throw during his workouts / while taking snaps from under center and I'm re-smitten.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:37 pm

G08 wrote:My head is completely fuckin' spun around at this point. I'm watching clips of Mahomes throw during his workouts / while taking snaps from under center and I'm re-smitten.
Welcome back! :cheer:
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:45 pm

But he can't read the field...

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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:56 pm

This is what I really like

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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:02 pm

God his arm :love:
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:41 am

I've said this before...but if the kid puts in the work, he has another month to make his drop backs look better and clean up his delivery a little. I think he has the best arm, if not he's close enough to say he does. I bet he's going to turn some of the draftnits heads at the combine. I'm not saying that I expect him to rise like Wentz did last year, but he has the potential and ability to do so.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:17 am

Atkins&Rebel wrote:I've said this before...but if the kid puts in the work, he has another month to make his drop backs look better and clean up his delivery a little. I think he has the best arm, if not he's close enough to say he does. I bet he's going to turn some of the draftnits heads at the combine. I'm not saying that I expect him to rise like Wentz did last year, but he has the potential and ability to do so.
So are all the other QB prospects just sitting around the house and eating nachos?
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:23 am

The only reason he isn't thought of as the #1 is mechanics. They are horrid. In those videos not under pressure they are better, but still a work in progress.

So what is fixable and what's not seems to be the theme of this QB class. Mechanics can be fixable, but it takes tons of perfect practice. Still under pressure and exhaustion people revert back to their natural state.

Then comes the offensive philosophy issues this entire class has. Again teachable but it becomes more of a projection.

I really like Mahomes. Projecting his career path is challenging.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:28 am

mmmc_35 wrote:The only reason he isn't thought of as the #1 is mechanics. They are horrid. In those videos not under pressure they are better, but still a work in progress.

So what is fixable and what's not seems to be the theme of this QB class. Mechanics can be fixable, but it takes tons of perfect practice. Still under pressure and exhaustion people revert back to their natural state.

Then comes the offensive philosophy issues this entire class has. Again teachable but it becomes more of a projection.

I really like Mahomes. Projecting his career path is challenging.
What I like the most about Mahomes is even with poor mechanics and footwork, he is pretty accurate. So that leads to the question of if he will be super accurate when his footwork is cleaned up or will it actually break what makes him so accurate. Look at it like this, Bubba Watson does so many things wrong when he swings a golf club, but it is how he learned and it works for him... I mean he does have a green jacket... but that doesn't stop swing coaches from grimacing any time they hear him give advice on golf swings....
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:32 am

True. Chuck Liddell style of striking is not coachable and theoretically wrong, yet made him great. That and he had an amazing chin to work with.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:31 am

Mahomes could turn into a great QB with a great coaching staff. That sure as hell isnt the Bears.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56 am

Most likely Mahomes has played football all his life. He's had access to trainers, coaches and special position coaches. Do you think a month is really going to "change" his mechanics? You could see a tweak here or there for the underwear Olympic but as soon as the helmet and pads go on, those tweaks will go out the window. This kid can really spin the ball has good size and wants to throw from the pocket first and foremost but also has the ablitly to use his legs.

It's very surprising in his 2 years as the starter, with his sloppy lazy mechanics, he only threw 25 interceptions(41 TD's) in 1,164 attempts. Not to mention his 741 rushing yards and 22 rushing TD's. This kid once accounted for 819 yards in a single game. I'm definitely going to pay more attention to Mr. Patrick Mahomes II.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Funkster wrote:Most likely Mahomes has played football all his life. He's had access to trainers, coaches and special position coaches. Do you think a month is really going to "change" his mechanics? You could see a tweak here or there for the underwear Olympic but as soon as the helmet and pads go on, those tweaks will go out the window. This kid can really spin the ball has good size and wants to throw from the pocket first and foremost but also has the ablitly to use his legs.

It's very surprising in his 2 years as the starter, with his sloppy lazy mechanics, he only threw 25 interceptions(41 TD's) in 1,164 attempts. Not to mention his 741 rushing yards and 22 rushing TD's. This kid once accounted for 819 yards in a single game. I'm definitely going to pay more attention to Mr. Patrick Mahomes II.
He hasn't played football all his life.

Try Googling him, kid has an interesting story.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:45 pm

He started playing football in 7th grade. Regardless, the point I'm making is he's had access to improve his mechanics for YEARS, a month isn't going to change much.
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Re: QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:03 pm

Funkster wrote:He started playing football in 7th grade. Regardless, the point I'm making is he's had access to improve his mechanics for YEARS, a month isn't going to change much.
Mahomes attended Whitehouse High School where he played both sports but didn't start at quarterback for Whitehouse until midway through his junior season.

There's clips of him on twitter throwing the ball, dropping back from center. Looks good.
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