Laurence Holmes on the Trubisky deal

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cblaz11
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Teddy KGB wrote:The bottom line though is Ryan pace fooled both the 49ers and the teams trying to trade up with the 49ers to grab trubisky. By all accounts day of the draft, Kansas City was trying to trade up as well as Cleveland.

The people who say no one was trying to trade up are lying their asses off. Speaking of media here.

What ended up happening because the Bears and a very young general manager Hoodwinked a whole bunch of more veteran general managers, the immediately began the spin 2 the friends they have in the media.

And yes, some gms do have friends in the media who they leak things to. And the media are more than happy to push out articles so that way they can continue to get easy access and make their own jobs easier. It's not even true journalism but just the type of shady bullshit that happens.

So those GM's leaked to their media friends a bullshit story of what an idiot Ryan paces and because some of the media put that out there, it caught fire as the rest of the lazy media regurgitated it.

Meanwhile, the reason to leak the bullshit in the first place is they didn't want to have to answer to their owners the question of why a very young general manager just played them for idiots.

The key to knowing the truth of all of this is when one of the media got war room access to Lynch's first draft with the 49ers, they have him on record as saying he thought the Bears were trading up to get a linebacker. He had to be told that a trade up like that was likely for a quarterback. That rare nugget of Truth before the media spin began tells you the truth of what you needed to know. Combine that with the fact that Ryan Pace was actively negotiating with the Cleveland Browns at the same time to prevent them from trading up with the 49ers to grab a quarterback, and you have the total picture right there, before the media spin began to do damage on Ryan Pace in order to save their own skins.

What didn't help with this is that Ryan Pace got the Bears job over Chris Ballard who at least up until this draft has been a disaster for the Colts but has a Litany of friends in the media who are all but eager to cover for his ass. So is Ryan Pace picked up Matt Nagy as head coach and schooled him, they picked up on that old draft thread and tugged at it some more to cover for Chris Ballard.

The final nugget with regards to the shitball media is that when Jerry Angelo and Phil Emery War general managers with the Bears, there were people on staff who Phil Emery retained in the front offices who were informants for people like Mike Mulligan, Brad Biggs, and a lot of the older Bears beat reporters former beat reporters and media. Those people got easy stories and easy inside information. If you go back to the tenure of those general managers in wonder how teens were able to so easily jump in front of the Bears and grab a player who we all thought the Bears wanted, and how the beers would routinely get screwed out of those players, Leakey Halas Hall was a major reason.

That was free money for the media and they didn't give a shit that they were causing damage to the team because their lives is so-called journalists were made easier.

Ryan Pace comes along and cleans house. The Leaky people are gone. Ryan Pace runs the front office like the Patriots do. No information gets out.

So you have a bunch of Legacy fat cat former beat reporters who are bitching and moaning and hate Ryan pace for the Civil pedi reason that now they have to work for a living again rather than get fed easy stories.

If you look at the journalists in this town, it's no wonder why younger reporters on the beat like Adam Jahns hold a far more favorable opinion of Ryan pace than some of the Legacy morons like Brad Biggs, Mike Pompeii, and Mike Mulligan on the score.

Those old has beens have had their free ride cancelled. And they're bitter and crusty about it.

Now look at everything I just said in total. Now you know why teams are reluctant to trust the sports media. As fun as it is for us to talk sports and read about them, the business aspect of it is slimy, greasy, disgusting, and self-serving, and as far from real journalism as you could possibly get for many of the people in there doing whatever they have to in order to get a scoop. And they are more than willing to slander and burn anybody for a few extra clicks or a few extra headlines on the front of the newspaper...

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This is a good breakdown.

If the 49ers thought we were taking Solomon Thomas, and their lack of a QB, do you think they were planning on taking Mitch?
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base615
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I'm not sure if anyone noticed but we didn't have a 3rd round pick in this draft because of this trade. The other teams who picked a QB didn't have a 1st round pick in this draft. Ergo, I could not give a fuck. Pace wanted his guy and paid very little relatively to get him.

Who knows what went on behind the scenes? If San Fran were pretending that there's a bidding war for their pick, Trubisky is your guy and you don't feel like you can compromise on another QB, you just pay the price and get him rather than calling their bluff. In this case, the price was very modest indeed.
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Starting to look a whole LOT like Pace knew exactly what he was doing moving up to pick Mitch. he was All the handwringing about missing out on Watson last year has been replaced with woes about Mahomes.

Mitch is leading the 8~3 Bears towards the ever elusive NFC North title.
So yeah.. after revisiting I'd say L. Holmes & the rest of the Monday morning GM's need to sit their asses down.
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This is interesting... let's assume Trubisky went #2 and instead we took Watson at #3. Also, hindsight is 20/20.

67 - Alvin Kamara (we still got Tarik Cohen in round 4)

111 - Eddie Jackson (whom we took at 112 anyway)


Yeah... this trade worked out well in our favor since it ensured Pace got the guy he wanted.
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Pagan wrote:Starting to look a whole LOT like Pace knew exactly what he was doing moving up to pick Mitch. he was All the handwringing about missing out on Watson last year has been replaced with woes about Mahomes.

Mitch is leading the 8~3 Bears towards the ever elusive NFC North title.
So yeah.. after revisiting I'd say L. Holmes & the rest of the Monday morning GM's need to sit their asses down.
I hated the trade at the time and wow was I wrong. That's why Pace gets the big bucks.
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It's an unanswerable question. Logically we can't know if Trubs would have been there at 3. Though I think he would have and do many. Plus I wanted Mahomes so I really didn't like the whole thing.

If you're blind bidding on a nice car and over pay it doesn't make the car nicer but it does ensure you get it.
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Now we dance with the girl we brung...

Mitch..needs development true..upside..who knows..
With this Defense..he needs to good to very good..
I think he get there..
Mahomes yes..and his extreme talent and surrounded by better talent..

Our D may change all that..
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Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
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cblaz11 wrote:Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
John Lynch said it too. He said the Bears wanted to move up but that Pace wouldn't tell him who they were taking. Lynch said he was shocked when they took Mitch because he would have sworn they were taking Thomas.
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wab wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
John Lynch said it too. He said the Bears wanted to move up but that Pace wouldn't tell him who they were taking. Lynch said he was shocked when they took Mitch because he would have sworn they were taking Thomas.
Chicago and teams behind Chicago also stated they were taking calls for trades that went quite after the Bears drafted Mitch. You also had it as common knowledge that Cle was willing to move up as high as thee 2nd spot for a qb also.

So you have SF, Cle, Chi and the teams behind Chi all stating teams were looking to move up.
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KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
wab wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
John Lynch said it too. He said the Bears wanted to move up but that Pace wouldn't tell him who they were taking. Lynch said he was shocked when they took Mitch because he would have sworn they were taking Thomas.
Chicago and teams behind Chicago also stated they were taking calls for trades that went quite after the Bears drafted Mitch. You also had it as common knowledge that Cle was willing to move up as high as thee 2nd spot for a qb also.

So you have SF, Cle, Chi and the teams behind Chi all stating teams were looking to move up.
Still to this day I believe that the Niners were going to take Mitch at #3 and the Bears screwed them.
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wab wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
wab wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
John Lynch said it too. He said the Bears wanted to move up but that Pace wouldn't tell him who they were taking. Lynch said he was shocked when they took Mitch because he would have sworn they were taking Thomas.
Chicago and teams behind Chicago also stated they were taking calls for trades that went quite after the Bears drafted Mitch. You also had it as common knowledge that Cle was willing to move up as high as thee 2nd spot for a qb also.

So you have SF, Cle, Chi and the teams behind Chi all stating teams were looking to move up.
Still to this day I believe that the Niners were going to take Mitch at #3 and the Bears screwed them.
That actually makes 100% sense. If they really thought the Bears were going to take Thomas, and that's who SF took, then they wouldn't have been willing to risk that for a few extra picks. They said their real target was always Foster, but they didn't take him at 3. If Foster was the target they would have taken a better trade to drop back a little farther, or just drafted Foster at 3.
I think you are dead on and SF was likely planning on taking Mitch and just hoping to get a few other picks out of Chicago by making them think Lynch wanted the def player the Bears wanted. Bears not only got their guy, but froze out both Cleveland and SF from getting the their qb for a very small sum of 3 mid round picks.
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KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
wab wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
wab wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:Heard Shanahan state in an interview that there were numerous people trying to move up to the 2nd pick...that’s the first I heard someone from the 49ers comment.
John Lynch said it too. He said the Bears wanted to move up but that Pace wouldn't tell him who they were taking. Lynch said he was shocked when they took Mitch because he would have sworn they were taking Thomas.
Chicago and teams behind Chicago also stated they were taking calls for trades that went quite after the Bears drafted Mitch. You also had it as common knowledge that Cle was willing to move up as high as thee 2nd spot for a qb also.

So you have SF, Cle, Chi and the teams behind Chi all stating teams were looking to move up.
Still to this day I believe that the Niners were going to take Mitch at #3 and the Bears screwed them.
That actually makes 100% sense. If they really thought the Bears were going to take Thomas, and that's who SF took, then they wouldn't have been willing to risk that for a few extra picks. They said their real target was always Foster, but they didn't take him at 3. If Foster was the target they would have taken a better trade to drop back a little farther, or just drafted Foster at 3.
I think you are dead on and SF was likely planning on taking Mitch and just hoping to get a few other picks out of Chicago by making them think Lynch wanted the def player the Bears wanted. Bears not only got their guy, but froze out both Cleveland and SF from getting the their qb for a very small sum of 3 mid round picks.
Yep. If Foster was the real target they would have taken him at 3.

Lynch was convinced that they were taking Thomas so he thought he'd squeeze a couple of picks out of the Bears, still get Mitch and then get Foster later (as they did). So Pace pulled one over on them, they panicked and took Thomas because of his perceived value, and missed out on drafting a QB all together. All told, they turned the trade into 6 players:

Solomon Thomas - 4 career sacks...basically a bust at this point
Reuben Foster - cut, suspended, and on his way out of the NFL
Fred Warner - decent player
Adrian Colbert - special teams level player
Dante Pettis - has some potential
D.J. Reed - had like one good game as a returner

There's no way I'll ever be convinced Mitch would have been there at #3 for the Bears.
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There is no way Mitch is there at 3. Someone was going to move up to grab him. I think there is a good shot that KC/Hou and Cle were all looking to move up, to get Mitch. Now was that at 2, or 3 or behind there is never going to be a way to tell, but I honestly believe at least Cleveland was willing to move up to 2. And Multiple we know were willing to trade w/Chicago.
Now will that have been the right move 10 years from now, maybe, maybe not. but no doubt multiple teams thought Mitch was the #1 qb; I didn't, but I'm not a GM and my opinion really doens't mean much.
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People will always question this move unless Trubisky has a noticeably better career than Watson and Mahomes. The fact that Trubisky was the least experienced of the three and the Bears needed a QB immediately further confounds the issue. I think Trubisky will end up being a fine QB, but the fact that Pace traded away a lot to move up one spot is very suspect when you still had all 3 QBs on board. Can anyone really say the Bears would be any worse off this year with Watson or Mahomes as the starter? Both are running very similar offenses this year and doing well. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is looking like Mahomes > Trubisky > Watson at this point.
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Z Bear wrote:People will always question this move unless Trubisky has a noticeably better career than Watson and Mahomes. The fact that Trubisky was the least experienced of the three and the Bears needed a QB immediately further confounds the issue. I think Trubisky will end up being a fine QB, but the fact that Pace traded away a lot to move up one spot is very suspect when you still had all 3 QBs on board. Can anyone really say the Bears would be any worse off this year with Watson or Mahomes as the starter? Both are running very similar offenses this year and doing well. Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is looking like Mahomes > Trubisky > Watson at this point.
But the Bears didn't need a QB immediately considering they just signed Longneck Gingerderp to a fat deal like 3 weeks before the draft.

The general consensus on all three leading up to the draft was:
Watson was the most ready, but had arm limitations.
Mahomes had the most physical gifts, but had garbage mechanics and a weird throwing motion.
Trubisky had the most raw talent, but lacked experience.

There is a very real reason that Trubisky was considered the #1 QB in the class.
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They signed Glennon to a 1 year deal essentially since they had the out in year 2 for cheap. You do not try to solve the QB issue with a one year contact. The writing was on the wall the Bears were taking a QB but no one really noticed it. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of QBs, as a South Carolina fan I was actually scared shitless I was going to have to cheer for a Clemson QB for the next 5-10 years! I have no problem the Bears selected Trubisky, but I am firmly in the camp it was a mistake to move up to get him.


Additionally... if you do not need a QC immediately, why would you trade up to get one when you had several holes to fill?
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I think your theory of the 49ers set on Trubisky is wrong. 2 reasons. 1 in an article Lynch and the guy who set up the trade had a conversation. Something like. So they are taking Thomas right. I don't think so. who are they taking? I think it's Trubisky. Really? I think so.

Their war room clearly didn't look like they just passed on their QB.

Likely they thought Thomas was the pick initially. They wanted to work down and get Foster. At 3 Thomas was still there and the offers where not as good so they took him.
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From what I gathered, the 49ers made it very clear to the rest of the NFL that they were selling the #2 pick. Pace supposedly caught wind that some teams were looking at Trubisky because they were talking to Pace at #3 about trading up to that pick.

I don't necessarily think we HAD to trade up to #2 to get Trubisky, because Pace played his hand beautifully, but at the end of the day something spooked him and he did what he does: felt conviction on a player and did whatever it took to get him.

I'm happy with it -- I didn't love the trade up at the time but I did love the player. I'm beating a dead horse in hindsight here but if you told me in year 2 this kid would have a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio, avg 7.5 YPA, and throw for over 3,000 yards I'd take it and run.
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I think Trubisky takes a huge jump next year with another offseason in this offense - paired with Nagy. I applaud Pace for being decisive and getting the QB he wanted. Now, you can criticize him and his staff for mis-evaluating the talent at the position but you can't criticize him for being bold and wanting to get his guy. Remember, Mitch was the consensus #1 QB for Pace and his entire scouting staff. There was a conviction on Mitch across the board internally, so that was their guy. It remains to be seen if Mitch can live up to the potential - but I have confidence he has not reached his ceiling yet. He still has a lot of growing to do and can be much better statistically than he was in Year 1 of this offense.

I think Pace views Mitch as his version of "Brees".
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