Fixed that for you.sturf wrote:1. Daniels might actually stick at guard, and I think the Bears have reasons why they would want it to stick. In terms of combine measurements he is already a little bigger and longer than Whitehair was at the combine, and benched more reps. Given that he is only 20 years old he may end up significantly heavier and stronger than Whitehair who at this point is pretty maxed out as far as carrying weight. For every person that says Whitehair is better at guard there is another that says he is better at center. I think what is true is that there is NFL tape of Whitehair playing center at a high level. Whitehair playing guard at a high level in the NFL is more projection even if it is a reasonable projection.
2. They can always switch to Daniels at center and Whitehair at guard if it doesn't work, but in the meantime they can let Daniels settle in and learn without having to make the line calls, while he is learning the offense. Whitehair and Kush can handle the 1st and 2nd team center duties and the calls. This also most likely lets Daniels complete directly with Kush at the same position for the starting job.
R2, P39: James Daniels, C - Iowa
Moderator: wab
- Mikefive
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5189
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
- Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
- Has thanked: 340 times
- Been thanked: 278 times
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
I think the overarching point for me is that we have the following dudes competing for 5 spots on the OL:
Leno
Daniels
Whitehair
Long
Massie
Kush
Morgan
Sowell
I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Let these dudes get after it and I'm beyond comfortable with Hiestand deciding who should go where.
Leno
Daniels
Whitehair
Long
Massie
Kush
Morgan
Sowell
I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Let these dudes get after it and I'm beyond comfortable with Hiestand deciding who should go where.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- Hiphopopotamos
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm
mmmc_35 wrote:I think we should have a 6'3" finesse LT play next to our 6'3" finesse LG. I see major problems with that.
6’3” LT with longer arms than the 6’7” and 6’8” OTs who went in the top 15 of this draft. Leno has longer arms then every 1st round OL in this draft.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
- Hiphopopotamos
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm
mmmc_35 wrote:Arm length isn't the worry. It's about putting 2 smaller linemen, whom both are not power guys, next to eachother. Do you disagree with my premise?
Yes. I don’t think having lighter lineman is in and of itself an issue. Atlanta has had one of the best and smallest OL in football two years straight. It doesn’t surprise me that Nagy values athleticism over sheer power/size. Same with NO and NE.
Obviously you’d like both - but as opposed to a decade ago I think teams, especially teams running more modern offenses, are favoring lighter and more athletic OL over 330 pound pluggers.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
- thunderspirit
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3829
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
- Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 603 times
I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.
Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
I'd be very concerned if we still had Mike Tice and were implementing a power blocking scheme.mmmc_35 wrote:I think we should have a 6'3" finesse LT play next to our 6'3" finesse LG. I see major problems with that.
Good thing we aren't
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
From the center over to the left the Bears are 6’3 305. On the right they are 6’6 320.thunderspirit wrote:I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.
Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
It’s weird and I don’t understand it.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
A lot of teams are 'right handed' and you'll see most of their runs go in that direction.wab wrote:From the center over to the left the Bears are 6’3 305. On the right they are 6’6 320.thunderspirit wrote:I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.
Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
It’s weird and I don’t understand it.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- southdakbearfan
- Head Coach
- Posts: 4600
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
- Location: South Dakota
- Has thanked: 763 times
- Been thanked: 328 times
It isn't just about the measurable as far as height and weight, it's can they play and do what needs to be done. Now don't take that as saying we should have a 260 lb line, but who cares what leno's stats are if he is an above average starting LT in the league and keeps the QB upright? Who cares if a guard is 350 or 305 as long as he can block the scheme correctly? J'marcus Webb is 6'7" and 330 lbs yet can't block for shit.
NFL DE's were all 295 - 320 for a while, now we are back to the quicker 250-275 lb guys being popular.
The falcon's had the #1 offense and should have won a superbowl with the lightest line in the league 2 seasons ago. It's speed, technique and scheme fit.
NFL DE's were all 295 - 320 for a while, now we are back to the quicker 250-275 lb guys being popular.
The falcon's had the #1 offense and should have won a superbowl with the lightest line in the league 2 seasons ago. It's speed, technique and scheme fit.
- mmmc_35
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 98 times
True, and I like Daniels, just not next to Leno and at guard. Lance Louis was similar size but powerful. I wouldn't have the same contention with him. Though Daniels career will be better.southdakbearfan wrote:It isn't just about the measurable as far as height and weight, it's can they play and do what needs to be done.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
You don't need size/power when you are running a zone based scheme... look at Atlanta, look at the glory years of the Denver Broncos. Of course you want offensive linemen with core strength and the ability to anchor, but I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand how many times I've seen Charles Leno put on his ass by a defensive lineman.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- mmmc_35
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 98 times
That's not very accurate. Yes you can sacrifice some power for athleticism in zone. However if you look at the teams mentioned in this thread as examples they have some powerful dudes. You are right all linemen need some ability to anchor. Having 2 players who are not as good at it playing next to eachother seems like a liability.G08 wrote:You don't need size/power when you are running a zone based scheme... look at Atlanta, look at the glory years of the Denver Broncos. Of course you want offensive linemen with core strength and the ability to anchor, but I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand how many times I've seen Charles Leno put on his ass by a defensive lineman.
Leno gets walked back. He is very good at mirroring, and has good balance. Plus having powerful dudes next to him has kept the gap clean. I have never complained about him because he has had Sitton or Long next to him.
A line with Whitehair at LG and Daniels at OC just makes more sense to me. I'll eat crow if wrong, but Daniels next to Leno will down grade both spots.
Again I like Leno and Daniels. I feel like I am ragging on them when I am not. Daniels would get stronger. But right now defenses would be wise to play a 3T.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
I've said it since Leno was inserted in the lineup, his feet and ability to route his guy around the back of the pocket long enough for his QB to move around in it is what keeps him in the starting lineup. He's helped tremendously by mobile QB's. It's no coincidence that he struggled when Glennon was back there.
Daniels just looks like a natural center. He's so fluid and quick. Whitehair looks like a tackle who should be a guard trying to play center because there's been no one else to do it.
If it works with Daniels at guard, great. But it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if Whitehair is your opening day LG.
Daniels just looks like a natural center. He's so fluid and quick. Whitehair looks like a tackle who should be a guard trying to play center because there's been no one else to do it.
If it works with Daniels at guard, great. But it wouldn't surprise me even a little bit if Whitehair is your opening day LG.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
*shrug* I can't speak to their power numbers but here is their height/weight from left to right, according to ESPN:mmmc_35 wrote:That's not very accurate.G08 wrote:You don't need size/power when you are running a zone based scheme... look at Atlanta, look at the glory years of the Denver Broncos. Of course you want offensive linemen with core strength and the ability to anchor, but I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand how many times I've seen Charles Leno put on his ass by a defensive lineman.
6'5" 309
6'2" 303
6'4" 311
6'4" 300
6'7" 300
Here's the Bears with the "weak left side"
6'4" 315 (self reported)
6'3" 306 (combine)
6'4" 310 (ESPN)
6'6" 316 (ESPN)
6'6" 317 (ESPN)
I don't think Long ever played LG... could be wrong.mmmc_35 wrote:Leno gets walked back. He is very good at mirroring, and has good balance. Plus having powerful dudes next to him has kept the gap clean. I have never complained about him because he has had Sitton or Long next to him.
I'm way on the other side of the argument than you and wab. I see the athleticism inside from Daniels/Whitehair/Long that I think we will murdering teams with inside zone all game long.
Last edited by G08 on Tue May 01, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
RE: Long. I know he's listed at like 6'6 320(ish). But having stood next to him (I'm 6'2), he looks more like 6'4 290. He's got a GIANT noggin, so that may put him at 6'5. I have a picture with him and my buddy who is 6'3 and Long doesn't have much height on him. They were about shoulder to shoulder. In fact, Miller is taller than long, based on them standing side by side talking to each other after a game in the locker room.
I'm on the fence about Long in this offense. I hope he still has that athleticism that made him a pro bowler. He HAS to stay healthy, or this may be his last year as a Bear.
I'm on the fence about Long in this offense. I hope he still has that athleticism that made him a pro bowler. He HAS to stay healthy, or this may be his last year as a Bear.
- Hiphopopotamos
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm
wab wrote:RE: Long. I know he's listed at like 6'6 320(ish). But having stood next to him (I'm 6'2), he looks more like 6'4 290. He's got a GIANT noggin, so that may put him at 6'5. I have a picture with him and my buddy who is 6'3 and Long doesn't have much height on him. They were about shoulder to shoulder. In fact, Miller is taller than long, based on them standing side by side talking to each other after a game in the locker room.
I'm on the fence about Long in this offense. I hope he still has that athleticism that made him a pro bowler. He HAS to stay healthy, or this may be his last year as a Bear.
Kyle Long was measured at the combine at 6'6". I'd trust that measurement. Unless he shrunk.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11017
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
Whitehair/Daniels/Long(if healthy) is a WHOLE lot of nasty in the middle. All athletic OL that can road grade in the run game. I believe that Daniels should stay at C, and Whitehair can move back to his natural position at G. My excitement comes from seeing what Heistand, arguably the best OL coach in the nation, can build on what Daniels and Whitehair already have. I think everyone needs to look at the OL through fresh eyes with Harry on board. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bears OL gets ranked in the top 5 by mid-season.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
Hiestand is the reason that I really don't give a shit who lines up where -- so long as that is their fixed position moving forward. If that means Daniels at OC, great; if that means he plays LG, super.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- DaSuperfan
- Crafty Veteran
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Just curious, after his rookie season, are you still in the "Don't like the pick" category? Honestly, I loved the pick at the time and I think he's a young pillar on our line for a long time.RING4CHI wrote:Just allow me to get this out of my system:
Never Die Easy
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
He didn't like it because of Iowa. Had nothing to do with Daniels. Ringer just hates Iowa.DaSuperfan wrote:Just curious, after his rookie season, are you still in the "Don't like the pick" category? Honestly, I loved the pick at the time and I think he's a young pillar on our line for a long time.RING4CHI wrote:Just allow me to get this out of my system:
- DaSuperfan
- Crafty Veteran
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
Ahhhh okay, so he'll hate him forever lol.wab wrote:He didn't like it because of Iowa. Had nothing to do with Daniels. Ringer just hates Iowa.DaSuperfan wrote:Just curious, after his rookie season, are you still in the "Don't like the pick" category? Honestly, I loved the pick at the time and I think he's a young pillar on our line for a long time.RING4CHI wrote:Just allow me to get this out of my system:
Never Die Easy