R2, P39: James Daniels, C - Iowa

College football and the NFL Draft

Moderator: wab

User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3535
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.

I trust Hiestand to get it sorted out over the next 4 months.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
You're salty tonight. What do you mean? Am I wrong? Is Cody a natural C? Daniels is considered the best C prospect in the draft, are you saying he should be a G? Or are you just being Facetious?
Image
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
You're salty tonight. What do you mean? Am I wrong? Is Cody a natural C? Daniels is considered the best C prospect in the draft, are you saying he should be a G? Or are you just being Facetious?
Salty?

I think Whitehair is a guard (always have) and Daniels (a great pick) is a center. I don’t know why the Bears are bound and determined to over complicate things.

That’s salty?
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
You're salty tonight. What do you mean? Am I wrong? Is Cody a natural C? Daniels is considered the best C prospect in the draft, are you saying he should be a G? Or are you just being Facetious?
Salty?

I think Whitehair is a guard (always have) and Daniels (a great pick) is a center. I don’t know why the Bears are bound and determined to over complicate things.

That’s salty?
I was referring a some of your other posts tonight. No worries. I agree. Bump Whitehair back out to G and keep Daniels at C. I don't think they are over complicating. Maybe just protecting Whitehair, or not overcommitting in front of Heistand, before he gets a chance to work with them.

Whatever it is. Our OL got decidedly better tonight. I wanted an OG/C in round 2, and I got a really, really good one. I'm happy.
Image
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

Love it.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
I think Daniels is your LT. That 6'3" thing.
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Hiphopopotamos wrote:
wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.

I trust Hiestand to get it sorted out over the next 4 months.
It's as simple as that for me. Even Pace sorta said in his discussion of Daniels at LG isn't set in stone. It's the starting point. It will work itself out. That both guys can play both positions (along with Kush) gives us great flexibility. (To dump Grasu. :-) )
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Mikefive wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:
wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.

I trust Hiestand to get it sorted out over the next 4 months.
It's as simple as that for me. Even Pace sorta said in his discussion of Daniels at LG isn't set in stone. It's the starting point. It will work itself out. That both guys can play both positions (along with Kush) gives us great flexibility. (To dump Grasu. :-) )
My thing is the shuffling. Yeah, to an extent it’s great for your linemen to have position flexibility, but it’s more important to have continuity with your line. I think Whitehair can be a pro bowl guard but an above average center - IMO he regressed a bit this past season.

Daniels is the best pure center in the draft...why mess with what got him drafted?

Still, I trust Heistand to do what he does.
User avatar
Funkster
MVP
Posts: 1851
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Got around to watch some film on Daniels, I think the Bears just may have gotten the best value in this draft with his pick. Like most of you have stated, I also believe he'll either end up at center or LG. We'll have to see how TRU adapts taking snaps from him. If all is well, I say move Daniels to center and Whitehair to LG, set it and forget it.
“Protect this fucking house, go all out, leave that shit out on the field, let’s have some fun, makes some plays baby ” Mitch Trubisky #believethesleeve
User avatar
beardownunder
Rookie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:05 am

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Why wouldn’t you take a natural guard and play him at center, and take a natural center and play him at guard.
You're salty tonight. What do you mean? Am I wrong? Is Cody a natural C? Daniels is considered the best C prospect in the draft, are you saying he should be a G? Or are you just being Facetious?
Salty?

I think Whitehair is a guard (always have) and Daniels (a great pick) is a center. I don’t know why the Bears are bound and determined to over complicate things.

That’s salty?
I'm not sure you want to pair a rookie with a 2nd year QB in a new offense. Whitehair at least has a relationship with Trubisky and some experience.

If Daniels can show he's got the ability to play in the league and can quickly master the playbook then he goes in to C, just not sure how much time there is in training camp for him to prove that.
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

It also makes some sense to let Whitehair make the line calls at least at first and simplify things for Daniels out of the box. Not sure that's a great argument, since I'm not saying he's incapable of doing it, particularly as things ease in with OTA's, etc. But there's some logic to that thinking.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

Mikefive wrote:It also makes some sense to let Whitehair make the line calls at least at first and simplify things for Daniels out of the box. Not sure that's a great argument, since I'm not saying he's incapable of doing it, particularly as things ease in with OTA's, etc. But there's some logic to that thinking.
This, if he shows he can handle it right away he will get moved to center quickly, if not, he plays guard.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Slausen made the line calls at guard for Grasu. Why can’t Whitehair do it for Daniels?
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

wab wrote:Slausen made the line calls at guard for Grasu. Why can’t Whitehair do it for Daniels?
Not saying he couldn't, it's just not ideal as the guard can't see everything the center can.

I still think there is a shot the kid ends up starting at center and whitehair moves over.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

We have to remember, guys, that Cody Whitehair put out top 5-8 NFL tape at center; why are we in a rush to remove him from that position?

I trust Hiestand to do what's best, but it won't shock me one bit if Daniels is our LG and Whitehair our OC.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

G08 wrote:We have to remember, guys, that Cody Whitehair put out top 5-8 NFL tape at center; why are we in a rush to remove him from that position?

I trust Hiestand to do what's best, but it won't shock me one bit if Daniels is our LG and Whitehair our OC.
Because Daniels is not built for to be a Guard. At Center his lack of strength is an issue but not necessarily a killer. At guard it could be a really big problem.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

G08 wrote:We have to remember, guys, that Cody Whitehair put out top 5-8 NFL tape at center; why are we in a rush to remove him from that position?

I trust Hiestand to do what's best, but it won't shock me one bit if Daniels is our LG and Whitehair our OC.
I thought Whitehair regressed a bit at center last year. I mean Daniels is being compared to guys like Alex Mack, Rodney Hudson, LeCharles Bentley, and friggin Dermonti Dawson. Some of the top players to ever play the center position.

Conversely, Whitehair is a Zack Martin clone - arguably the best guard in the NFL.
sturf
Journeyman
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 1:32 pm

1. Daniels might actually stick at guard, and I think the Bears have reasons why they would want it to stick. In terms of combine measurements he is already a little bigger and longer than Whitehair was at the combine, and benched more reps. Given that he is only 20 years old he may end up significantly heavier and stronger than Whitehair who at this point is pretty maxed out as far as carrying weight. For every person that says Whitehair is better at guard there is another that says he is better at center. I think what is true is that there is NFL tape of Whitehair playing center at a high level. Whitehair playing guard at a high level in the NFL is more projection even if it is a reasonable projection.

2. They can always switch to Daniels at center and Whitehair at guard if it doesn't work, but in the meantime they can let Daniels settle in and learn without having to make the line calls, while he is learning the offense. Whitehair and Grasu can handle the 1st and 2nd team center duties and the calls. This also most likely lets Daniels complete directly with Kush at the same position for the starting job.
User avatar
crueltyabc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: Dallas TX
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 226 times

I wonder if the OG talk has to do with Long's health. I was watching Trubisky tape from last season and kept noticing Long for the wrong reasons. He didn't play like a starter last year. He'll need to be better in 2018. Maybe Long comes back rusty or limited from his surgeries and we have two new starting guards on week 1?
xyt in the discord chats
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

sturf wrote:1. Daniels might actually stick at guard, and I think the Bears have reasons why they would want it to stick. In terms of combine measurements he is already a little bigger and longer than Whitehair was at the combine, and benched more reps. Given that he is only 20 years old he may end up significantly heavier and stronger than Whitehair who at this point is pretty maxed out as far as carrying weight. For every person that says Whitehair is better at guard there is another that says he is better at center. I think what is true is that there is NFL tape of Whitehair playing center at a high level. Whitehair playing guard at a high level in the NFL is more projection even if it is a reasonable projection.

2. They can always switch to Daniels at center and Whitehair at guard if it doesn't work, but in the meantime they can let Daniels settle in and learn without having to make the line calls, while he is learning the offense. Whitehair and Kush can handle the 1st and 2nd team center duties and the calls. This also most likely lets Daniels complete directly with Kush at the same position for the starting job.
Fixed that for you. :-P :evilgrin:
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

I think the overarching point for me is that we have the following dudes competing for 5 spots on the OL:

Leno
Daniels
Whitehair
Long
Massie
Kush
Morgan
Sowell

I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Let these dudes get after it and I'm beyond comfortable with Hiestand deciding who should go where.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

I think we should have a 6'3" finesse LT play next to our 6'3" finesse LG. I see major problems with that.
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3535
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

mmmc_35 wrote:I think we should have a 6'3" finesse LT play next to our 6'3" finesse LG. I see major problems with that.

6’3” LT with longer arms than the 6’7” and 6’8” OTs who went in the top 15 of this draft. Leno has longer arms then every 1st round OL in this draft.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Arm length isn't the worry. It's about putting 2 smaller linemen, whom both are not power guys, next to eachother. Do you disagree with my premise?
User avatar
Hiphopopotamos
Head Coach
Posts: 3535
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm

mmmc_35 wrote:Arm length isn't the worry. It's about putting 2 smaller linemen, whom both are not power guys, next to eachother. Do you disagree with my premise?

Yes. I don’t think having lighter lineman is in and of itself an issue. Atlanta has had one of the best and smallest OL in football two years straight. It doesn’t surprise me that Nagy values athleticism over sheer power/size. Same with NO and NE.

Obviously you’d like both - but as opposed to a decade ago I think teams, especially teams running more modern offenses, are favoring lighter and more athletic OL over 330 pound pluggers.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!

In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.

Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
User avatar
thunderspirit
Head Coach
Posts: 3829
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
Has thanked: 605 times
Been thanked: 603 times

I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.

Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
KFFL refugee.

dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
:shocked:
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

mmmc_35 wrote:I think we should have a 6'3" finesse LT play next to our 6'3" finesse LG. I see major problems with that.
I'd be very concerned if we still had Mike Tice and were implementing a power blocking scheme.

Good thing we aren't :)
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

thunderspirit wrote:I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.

Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
From the center over to the left the Bears are 6’3 305. On the right they are 6’6 320.

It’s weird and I don’t understand it.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

wab wrote:
thunderspirit wrote:I'm with Hiphopopotamus. Zone schemes emphasize athleticism over brute strength.

Maybe we're both wrong, and if so you're welcome to say "I told you so."
From the center over to the left the Bears are 6’3 305. On the right they are 6’6 320.

It’s weird and I don’t understand it.
A lot of teams are 'right handed' and you'll see most of their runs go in that direction.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

Post Reply