Combine Observations

[Hoog]

Well, I think I found some clarity at TE and WR at the combine. The three guys I thought did really well were Cole Kmet (who I think I will have at #1now), Harrison Bryant (all around good), and my sleeper Dalton Keene from VaTech. Keene was awsome. He showed agility, speed, and best of all hands. He is a swiss army knife and can play H-Back, TE, and FB when needed as well as be a stand out on ST. I am really liking this kid and he is slowly becoming one of my favorite draft picks.

As for the WR list, I think my favorite so far is Denzel Mims. Speed, size, and pretty darn good hands. If we sign Hooper in the off season, I wouldn't hesitate to take Mims with one of our second round picks. Another WR I liked was Donovan People-Jones, who I have seen a ton of and always thought if we had a decent QB at U of M he would have really thrived. He reminds me a ton of ARob but with more speed. He can go up and get the ball, he has solid hands, and can get deep. Others on my radar are more low end 4th - 7th guys like:

KJ Osborn- tough slot guy who can also go outside, really smart , and good route runner

Michael Pittman- Big, strong, reliable hands, and decent speed for size.

John Hightower- Good sized slot guy with really good agility, good YAC, and jet sweeps

Tyrie Cleveland- tall skinny kid who can get downfield and make things happen, speed and hops

Freddie Swain- good sized speed/agility guy from slot or outside. Good hands and stop/go ability

Darnell Mooney- great speed, quick get off to beat defender, and reliable hands.

[G08]

Kmet is so stiff. He looks like another Shaheen type to me. Not interested at 43.

[Drone7]

Shaheen's problem isn't stiffness. It's durability, leg strength and lack of field smarts (poor routes and leverage blocking). He adjusts to the ball well and has good hands.

[G08]

Maybe his jiu-jitsu training last off-season paid off!

Regardless, his balance is still pure shit -- that and his overall suckiness at football.

[mmmc_35]

James morgan whom I mentioned in an earlier thread as a QB I like whom checks apparently checks more boxes.

From Walter

James Morgan, QB, Florida International
James Morgan was the best quarterback at the East-West Shrine Game by a mile, and his positive momentum continued at the combine. He showed good accuracy in the drills, and he was also one of the standouts in the formal interviews. NFL teams came away very impressed with Morgan, who now has a chance to sneak into the third round of the 2020 NFL Draft.

[G08]

James morgan whom I mentioned in an earlier thread as a QB I like whom checks apparently checks more boxes.

From Walter

James Morgan, QB, Florida International
James Morgan was the best quarterback at the East-West Shrine Game by a mile, and his positive momentum continued at the combine. He showed good accuracy in the drills, and he was also one of the standouts in the formal interviews. NFL teams came away very impressed with Morgan, who now has a chance to sneak into the third round of the 2020 NFL Draft.

Dane Brugler was high on him as well...

[Drone7]

Watched Morgan's highlight reel. Unimpressed. Low ball carry, too much windup and a weak arm where he underthrew receivers (on completions). Not a quick runner either. I wouldn't draft him with a mid-round pick.

Still some QBs I haven't seen yet, but of the non-first rounders, I like Gordon best so far.

[Yogi da Bear]

Agree with you on Mims, Hoog. Moved him to the top of my Picnic Basket, which should be coming out soon after the Combine. But I gotta go with G on Kmet. He seems really stiff, very Shaheen like. I don't want him, certainly not in the second.

[Drone7]

Agree with you on Mims, Hoog. Moved him to the top of my Picnic Basket, which should be coming out soon after the Combine. But I gotta go with G on Kmet. He seems really stiff, very Shaheen like. I don't want him, certainly not in the second.

Where does this myth that Shaheen is stiff come from? He's an ex-basketball player with soft hands. He's' actually fairly supple for a guy his size. Stiff is Kellen Davis or Anthony Fasano. Shaheen's problem is primarily durability and lack of field smarts running routes.

[G08]

Agree with you on Mims, Hoog. Moved him to the top of my Picnic Basket, which should be coming out soon after the Combine. But I gotta go with G on Kmet. He seems really stiff, very Shaheen like. I don't want him, certainly not in the second.

Where does this myth that Shaheen is stiff come from? He's an ex-basketball player with soft hands. He's' actually fairly supple for a guy his size. Stiff is Kellen Davis or Anthony Fasano. Shaheen's problem is primarily durability and lack of field smarts running routes.

Eyes. Eyes help.

His words: “I think it was good for flexibility, as well as core strength,” Shaheen said. “The Jiu-Jitsu was good for that."

[Drone7]

So I haven't watched him play?

And because he wants to improve his flexibility like ALL really big men do, then it means he's lacking flexibility relative to other big men? That's like saying someone with good endurance doesn't need to drill anymore on endurance. Or why an accurate QB like like Brady still works in off-seasons to improve accuracy with a throwing coach.

You're not using your eyes, you're taking a statement and blowing it out of proportion. What is stiffness in a TE? Stone hands, not being able to bend for low throws or to get leverage in blocking, not being able to adjust well too poorly located balls down the field. Some of his best plays have been adjustments to fades. He has good coordination.

Not to compare guys from different positions, but Shaheen is somewhat comparable to Kevin White. Both injury-prone. Both are dumb when it comes to learning different roles and route running. Shaheen can't sell routes because he lacks the intelligence to feint on routes and come out of his breaks quickly--he runs fast in a straighline for his size, but he lacks cleverness and suddenness on his breaks, moving like a barge. But his coordination isn't bad for a big man.

That said, I didn't like the Shaheen pick when it was made because he was an obvious projection from a very low level of football and had poor technique so he needed to be healthy and a quick study to succeed. He's neither. That said, I wouldn't quit on him yet, because maybe the light will come on like it might still for Trubisky. Doubtful, but they are still under contract.

And this circles back to my main criticism of Pace. He takes projects too often with high picks. Projects that lack field smarts.

What Shaheen needs to work on most isn't martial arts or core work. It's strength training for his legs--his base, so he can block more powerfully and can lower his shoulder after receptions instead of pulling a basketball player--going airborne like he did in the playoffs when he should have trucked the guy. That would also strengthen his lower legs which have been brittle. But the main thing he needs to work on is route-running, learning to not to sink too much coming into his breaks like all tall guys are prone to, and learning to feint so he gets an extra step since he rounds off his cuts more than smaller men.

[Atkins&Rebel]

I personally believe that Shaheen looks stiff because he’s always banged up and trying to protect his injured areas.

[Yogi da Bear]

Where does this myth that Shaheen is stiff come from? He's an ex-basketball player with soft hands. He's' actually fairly supple for a guy his size. Stiff is Kellen Davis or Anthony Fasano. Shaheen's problem is primarily durability and lack of field smarts running routes.

Eyes. Eyes help.

His words: “I think it was good for flexibility, as well as core strength,” Shaheen said. “The Jiu-Jitsu was good for that."

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see...."
"Don't just see, observe...."
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

Jesus Christ Drone, just watch some tape. I'm not sure how he was in college or whether it was because of injury or not, but there were times that Shaheen looked like he could barely walk. It may be a touchdown, but watch here as he lumbers into a fall:



I don't know how else to point out the obvious to you.

[Drone7]

Yes, he played with injured legs and ribs and that affected his gait and body language some games.

I'm talking about his appearance in college and the few games when he was healthy in the pros. He's isn't uncoordinated--that's my point.

Stop with the just watch tape bs. I watch every game. If you think he's stiff so be it. I don't. I believe his shortcomings are durability, inability to assimilate coaching, poor route running, lacking awareness and leverage blocking--in a word, ignorance/stupidity when it comes to his craft.

But let's pretend he is uncoordinated. What then did Pace see in a guy from Ashland in round 2? His 40 wasn't eye-popping. Couldn't be that. Low level of college experience. Couldn't be that. Big frame? Yep! So Pace took a dumb, not very quick/fast, uncoordinated guy in round 2. Baby Gronk!

[Yogi da Bear]

Whatever he was in college, with the Bears, be it from injury or whatever, he was very stiff and awkward, almost like he was limping at times like he shouldn't even be on the field. I'm with G when he says that Kmet reminds him of that.

[Drone7]

2018 he badly injured his foot in preseason, missed many games, then came back prematurely and was visibly limping, then injured his ribs. So was never healthy in terms of body coordination/"appearance".

2019 he injured his back in preseason, then his foot again and was IR'd, so most "eye test" memories were of an injured player again.

I don't know why I'm "defending" a guy that I questioned from the get-go drafting and have been critical of since? I spelled out what I believe are his real concerns.

[Yogi da Bear]

I don't know why you're defending him either as the comment came not as a slam against Shaheen himself but as an observation of how Kmet was reminiscent of that 2018 Shaheen in his stiffness. As Bear fans, we really haven't seen an injury free, "flexible" Shaheen. He's been injured that often. So the point is pretty much moot and not really on point in its origin anyway.

[Moriarty]

What the hell happened to Trey Adams ?!?

[EricTighe]

What the hell happened to Trey Adams ?!?

He just fell off my draft board.
I had all kinds of reasons to get him but when you do nothing to get prepared for the combine you have to question there desire to actually play in the NFL. He looked soft real soft like all he has done since the end of the season is sitting around and playing video games. Very disappointing.

[EricTighe]

Well, Isiah Simmons confirmed to me that he is the best player in this draft.
Loved him and told my son he was my favorite player in this draft before the OSU game and then he lit that up. The kid is a freak on top of that. Unless I needed a QB I would take him before anyone else.

I have not felt this good about a LB since Urlacher. Took a lot of crap online for saying he was the best player in that draft as well.

I would trade the whole draft for him but no one would take it.

[wab]

I think Shaheen's issues - all of them - are 100% injury related.

[mmmc_35]

BJJ can help with flexibility a touch but for an oft injured getting joints cranked seems dumb. I love the jujitsu. Cost benefit diesnt seem high for him.

P.S. the stiff conversation is comedic gold.

[Yogi da Bear]

BJJ can help with flexibility a touch but for an oft injured getting joints cranked seems dumb. I love the jujitsu. Cost benefit diesnt seem high for him.

P.S. the stiff conversation is comedic gold.

Yeah, we got stiffies in Shaheen and Kmet and I guess Trey Adams is a chubby.

[crueltyabc]

I gotta disagree with the Mims fans, because I see Kevin White here. We never actually got to see White play, but I hated that pick because he couldn't beat the jam and couldn't make contested catches in college. His success relied on him being wide open. I have the same problems with Mims. Take a look at Mims not making the play for his team here:



As for the Kmet hate, I hope it's true around the league because I like him and hope he falls. His blocking technique needs work but he's gotten away with being bigger so far, so I get it. He's not agile (as the combine stats show) but he's a terror up the seem due to size/speed, and trucks DBs when he makes the shorter catches. His hands are excellent, and he uses every bit of his arm length so he's open even when he isn't open. In contrast to my complaint with Mims, you see Kmet make catches in traffic and while being mauled by defenders.

[RichH55]

I think Shaheen's issues - all of them - are 100% injury related.

He has shown little in the way of Football smarts - Unless you are making a very subtle CTE joke (and he probably hasn't been on the field enough for that) - then that wouldn't be injury related

[wab]

I think Shaheen's issues - all of them - are 100% injury related.

He has shown little in the way of Football smarts - Unless you are making a very subtle CTE joke (and he probably hasn't been on the field enough for that) - then that wouldn't be injury related

Hard to learn the position and develop when your body is always letting you down.

[thunderspirit]

I think Shaheen's issues - all of them - are 100% injury related.

I agree 95%.