NCAA athletes can now receive compensation

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Starting today, NCAA athletes can be sponsored, make money in their name and likeness, and the deals have been happening EVERYWHERE today. Good for them. The NCAA, as expected, is not sure how to handle it at all.

https://theathletic.com/news/ncaa-appro ... SJIy9wkRMg





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It's a step
It's going to be complete chaos for awhile
It still doesn't properly classify them as employees
The abuse of these rules is going to be epic

Still hoping it somehow leads to the collapse of collegiate athletics and a minor league instead
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:26 amStill hoping it somehow leads to the collapse of collegiate athletics and a minor league instead
I don't follow college football but just did some quick searching and it looks like most of a college's football revenue comes from the sale of tickets. If that's true, I could see them fighting like crazy to make sure this doesn't happen.

I agree though that the idea of a "student athlete" doesn't make sense. If you're an athlete, you got at least 4 hours of meetings and practice every day on top of your coursework whereas a "normal" student can use that time to actually study, socialize, rest, etc. These guys are practically working a physically strenuous part-time job with no pay but are still expected to keep their grades up (I know, the GPA requirements are minimal but they're still there). It's just ridiculous.
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The Marshall Plan
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I have no clue how to feel to about this.

1) Where does it stop? What about high schoolers? What if a middle schooler is really talented and people come from all over to watch them play?
2) Isn't a full ride scholarship and all the under the table perks a form of compensation?
3) These guys do make a ton of money for the NCAA.

What about students that add notoriety to a university? Say that a famous tech person comes from a school and now that school sees increased enrollment as a result. Shouldn't that person be compensated too?

This whole thing is a clusterfuck and it'll eventually take the fun out of college sports.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:15 pm
What about students that add notoriety to a university? Say that a famous tech person comes from a school and now that school sees increased enrollment as a result. Shouldn't that person be compensated too?
LOL, this is a pretty funny slippery slope argument. no where did the rules change saying they "HAVE TO" be compensated, only that if somebody buys them dinner the NCAA cant turn around and destroy their professional hopes by sitting them out a year.

It is absolutely bonkers, in the year 2021, to see someone taking the NCAA's side in this.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:15 pm1) Where does it stop? What about high schoolers? What if a middle schooler is really talented and people come from all over to watch them play?
Not sure how this applies since the NCAA only regulates college athletes. State laws and state high school athletic associations would be the things you would need to look at.
2) Isn't a full ride scholarship and all the under the table perks a form of compensation?
From a tax perspective, scholarships are not considered compensation and are tax free as long it is used for qualified expenses. As for under the table perks, as those are not allowed and impossible to prove I don't see how you can argue they should count as compensation. That would be like paying a politician a salary with the assumption that they will be making money from bribes as well.

What about students that add notoriety to a university? Say that a famous tech person comes from a school and now that school sees increased enrollment as a result. Shouldn't that person be compensated too?
How would you prove that a student applied to a university solely based on that famous tech person? I don't see any way this could be quantified.
This whole thing is a clusterfuck and it'll eventually take the fun out of college sports.
It will change things for sure but as you said, the NCAA has been making a ton of money off the backs of students forever and that is way overdue to be corrected. It's like a business building it's business model with the assumption that it won't have to pay it's employees. If they suddenly have to start paying them and now all of a sudden the tap of free money has slowed down to a trickle, well maybe they should have started off with a better business model.
[/quote]
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RustinFields wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:45 am
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:15 pm
What about students that add notoriety to a university? Say that a famous tech person comes from a school and now that school sees increased enrollment as a result. Shouldn't that person be compensated too?
LOL, this is a pretty funny slippery slope argument. no where did the rules change saying they "HAVE TO" be compensated, only that if somebody buys them dinner the NCAA cant turn around and destroy their professional hopes by sitting them out a year.

It is absolutely bonkers, in the year 2021, to see someone taking the NCAA's side in this.
You missed the first sentence of my post. Feel free to go back and read it again.
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Xee wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 2:49 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:15 pm1) Where does it stop? What about high schoolers? What if a middle schooler is really talented and people come from all over to watch them play?
Not sure how this applies since the NCAA only regulates college athletes. State laws and state high school athletic associations would be the things you would need to look at.
2) Isn't a full ride scholarship and all the under the table perks a form of compensation?
From a tax perspective, scholarships are not considered compensation and are tax free as long it is used for qualified expenses. As for under the table perks, as those are not allowed and impossible to prove I don't see how you can argue they should count as compensation. That would be like paying a politician a salary with the assumption that they will be making money from bribes as well.

What about students that add notoriety to a university? Say that a famous tech person comes from a school and now that school sees increased enrollment as a result. Shouldn't that person be compensated too?
How would you prove that a student applied to a university solely based on that famous tech person? I don't see any way this could be quantified.
This whole thing is a clusterfuck and it'll eventually take the fun out of college sports.
It will change things for sure but as you said, the NCAA has been making a ton of money off the backs of students forever and that is way overdue to be corrected. It's like a business building it's business model with the assumption that it won't have to pay it's employees. If they suddenly have to start paying them and now all of a sudden the tap of free money has slowed down to a trickle, well maybe they should have started off with a better business model.
[/quote]

I can understand how / why the college athletes should be compensated. I thought that was what the scholarship was for, but apparently that isn't covered in the language of the agreement. Maybe that's the response. The language of the scholarship changes. I don't know.

If we're going to start compensating students for the financial benefit they provide to a university then do it for everybody not just sports.

Example. Gifted kids that get great grades thus improving graduation rates and then go out into the real world, get great jobs and increase the average annual earnings of graduates. That makes the university money via increased future enrollment. It's good advertising.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:39 pmI can understand how / why the college athletes should be compensated. I thought that was what the scholarship was for, but apparently that isn't covered in the language of the agreement. Maybe that's the response. The language of the scholarship changes. I don't know.
This is a few years old but look at the typical day of a DI player during the season. Over 7 hours of their day is spent on football-related activities. If their education is supposed to be the reason they're in school, how are they supposed succeed while practically working a full-time job? There's a reason why they only need a 1.8 GPA to maintain their eligibility to play.

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If we're going to start compensating students for the financial benefit they provide to a university then do it for everybody not just sports.

Example. Gifted kids that get great grades thus improving graduation rates and then go out into the real world, get great jobs and increase the average annual earnings of graduates. That makes the university money via increased future enrollment. It's good advertising.
Again, how do you quantify that? People literally pay money to watch student athletes play a game but those students don't see a penny of that.

Imagine the NFL is modeled after college football if it helps. They don't receive a salary or any share of the revenues the team owners make. Instead, the only thing they get is the reimbursement of any expenses they incur to play the game (uniforms, equipment, flights, gym access, etc). Is that fair?
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Xee wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:30 pm
The Marshall Plan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:39 pmI can understand how / why the college athletes should be compensated. I thought that was what the scholarship was for, but apparently that isn't covered in the language of the agreement. Maybe that's the response. The language of the scholarship changes. I don't know.
This is a few years old but look at the typical day of a DI player during the season. Over 7 hours of their day is spent on football-related activities. If their education is supposed to be the reason they're in school, how are they supposed succeed while practically working a full-time job? There's a reason why they only need a 1.8 GPA to maintain their eligibility to play.

Image
If we're going to start compensating students for the financial benefit they provide to a university then do it for everybody not just sports.

Example. Gifted kids that get great grades thus improving graduation rates and then go out into the real world, get great jobs and increase the average annual earnings of graduates. That makes the university money via increased future enrollment. It's good advertising.
Again, how do you quantify that? People literally pay money to watch student athletes play a game but those students don't see a penny of that.

Imagine the NFL is modeled after college football if it helps. They don't receive a salary or any share of the revenues the team owners make. Instead, the only thing they get is the reimbursement of any expenses they incur to play the game (uniforms, equipment, flights, gym access, etc). Is that fair?
And it's for that extra work that they receive the scholarship. The ones who do not get a scholarship knew the risks going in.

Regarding, how to work a full time job while attending college. I'll be happy to tell you how my wife and I did it for my undergrad and MBA and her graduate degree and doctorate. Our grades were a SHIT TON better than a 1.8 GPA too. There are others who have done the same thing. The short of it is that you wake up at 4am, go to bed around 10 or 11pm and do that for a bunch of years while living on Taco Bell or bologna.

I'm NOT saying DO NOT pay the kids. I'm also not saying to pay the kids. I just don't know. I have an open mind about the topic.

What I AM saying is that if the kids are going to get compensated for the added value they make the university then compensate all of the kids for that. The smart ones too.

Anything can be quantified. In the world we live in today with A.I., algorithms, soon to be quantum computing, anything can be quantified. That part doesn't concern me.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:06 am
Regarding, how to work a full time job while attending college. I'll be happy to tell you how my wife and I did it for my undergrad and MBA and her graduate degree and doctorate. Our grades were a SHIT TON better than a 1.8 GPA too. There are others who have done the same thing. The short of it is that you wake up at 4am, go to bed around 10 or 11pm and do that for a bunch of years while living on Taco Bell or bologna.
So you admit the only way you were only to make it work was that you possess the unique ability to be sleep deprived and eat Taco Bell or bologna for 4+ years and still perform at a high academic standard. That's perfectly reasonable to expect from the 80k+ college athletes.
I'm NOT saying DO NOT pay the kids. I'm also not saying to pay the kids. I just don't know. I have an open mind about the topic.
I don't think you do since you haven't offered up one alternative besides keeping things exactly the way they are.
What I AM saying is that if the kids are going to get compensated for the added value they make the university then compensate all of the kids for that. The smart ones too.

Anything can be quantified. In the world we live in today with A.I., algorithms, soon to be quantum computing, anything can be quantified. That part doesn't concern me.
I'm sorry, I'm finding this hard to take any more than a bad faith argument. Hand waving this completely impossible task by throwing out words like 'algorithms" and "quantum computing" instead of actually providing something substantive does not serve as an answer.

Look, I can read between the lines, I know exactly where you are coming from and where this discussion will go and I'm not going to participate any further. We'll just have to see how it all unfolds.
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Not sure where all the angst came from, but whatever.
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I think it's fair to compensate those that help you make money. So I do feel that athletes should be paid, I just don't know how to refine the logistics of it all. All athletes provide a value to the team, or they wouldn't be on it. Starters should get more, backups less, reserve contributors less...so on and so forth.

All kids go to school for a reason. Maybe it's time to define the segments of the student body?

Students go to school to get an education that will potentially lead to a good job and a long career. You are responsible for the educational requirements for that degree, and your "compensation" is a degree in your chosen field.

Athletes go to school to potentially get to the professional level of their chosen sport. You are responsible for basic electives and to maintain the standards and requirements of your sport. Your compensation is payment for playing the sport, but no degree (unless you can fulfill the educational requirements of that degree).

This at some point probably eliminates the "student-athlete". Those kids that want a degree, but still want to play even though they know they have little to no chance at continuing the sport professionally. If they can meet the requirements of both, great. If they can't, they lose the perks of whichever requirements they can't fulfil.

This would dramatically change recruiting and how students view colleges. It would probably completely cripple some universities athletic departments...which is probably ok and maybe necessary.

IDK, maybe none of that makes sense... it's not an easy thing to sort through.
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A high school classmate with a son at a D3 school who started marketing his son (an OT) for sponsorships and endorsements and such. It surprised me at first. But the more I think about it so what if the kid pitches pizza or subs or car insurance or whatever locally and earns enough to buy himself a car or help pay some costs.

It seems like this new development might be better than "paying athletes". Let the free market discover the value and determine what makes sense or not. I'm not clear on the limitations, though. Can the athlete use the image of a school logo, or is it only based on their own personal name recognition?

I'll guess that some of the bigger names in college will clean up and then only above average players will really benefit from this in the long run. I don't really see a problem with compensating kids even if they're in high school. After all, JF1 was featured on ESPN in high school. From an early age the best athletes get unbelievable attention in recruiting and travel team leagues and such. Let them get something out of it. Other people certainly are.
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I think the education is enough to give a student (athlete) for going to the school.

I also think the athlete should be given a share of any merch the school sells directly associated with a particular athlete
And I believe athletes should be able to market themselves and sell their own brands while playing sports at a college.
So anything from endorsements, to merchandising. (Justin Fields the Flamethrower...the kids love this one)
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