Afghanistan

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mmmc_35
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So not political. Its obviously a shitty thing.

It's crazy to see what's going on there. You got people falling off planes. You got the Taliban killing civilians in the street. The reemergence of ISIS.

Then you got videos like this. Pallets of cash guns. They got night vision, drones etc. Maybe it's because I've been there but watching this is crazy to me.

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mmmc_35
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Also I know a dude who got dropped a rank and lost half a months pay because his rifle got run over by a bull dozer because he leaned it up against it.

Ever (admin edit: Nope) who let this happen deserve a similar punishment.
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wab
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Gonna let this one go as long as it doesn't go "there".

I won't say much other than I have some contractor friends who are still stuck over there. They stayed to help coordinate the evacuation of the embassy and weren't able to get to the airport afterwards. They are safe though at the moment, just waiting.
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American $ !!

The dude in the bright blue "army uniform", would be an easy target.
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I agree with @wab that we should not "go there" with this topic.

I have three veterans in my family.

My wife's grandfather in World War 2 who did bombing runs including on D-Day.

My wife's uncle was designed and maintained lenses on rifle scopes in Korea.

My dad who was a Military Policeman in Vietnam.

We are blessed that they all came home alive. Others are not so lucky.

So whatever it is we think of this, which again let's stay out of, these soldiers are real people doing a shitty job.
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mmmc_35
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wab wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:14 pm Gonna let this one go as long as it doesn't go "there".

I won't say much other than I have some contractor friends who are still stuck over there. They stayed to help coordinate the evacuation of the embassy and weren't able to get to the airport afterwards. They are safe though at the moment, just waiting.
Man I hope it works out for your friends. The whole thing is proper fucked. Depending on where they where at, it could be impossible to get out. We would fly jingo air and the terrain of that county is beautiful but not easy to navigate. I hope they get them out.
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mmmc_35 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:19 am So not political. Its obviously a shitty thing.

It's crazy to see what's going on there. You got people falling off planes. You got the Taliban killing civilians in the street. The reemergence of ISIS.

Then you got videos like this. Pallets of cash guns. They got night vision, drones etc. Maybe it's because I've been there but watching this is crazy to me.

Pardon my naivety here, but are those *our* weapons that we left behind?
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wab
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G08 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:56 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:19 am So not political. Its obviously a shitty thing.

It's crazy to see what's going on there. You got people falling off planes. You got the Taliban killing civilians in the street. The reemergence of ISIS.

Then you got videos like this. Pallets of cash guns. They got night vision, drones etc. Maybe it's because I've been there but watching this is crazy to me.

Pardon my naivety here, but are those *our* weapons that we left behind?
They are.
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wab
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mmmc_35 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:47 pm
wab wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:14 pm Gonna let this one go as long as it doesn't go "there".

I won't say much other than I have some contractor friends who are still stuck over there. They stayed to help coordinate the evacuation of the embassy and weren't able to get to the airport afterwards. They are safe though at the moment, just waiting.
Man I hope it works out for your friends. The whole thing is proper fucked. Depending on where they where at, it could be impossible to get out. We would fly jingo air and the terrain of that county is beautiful but not easy to navigate. I hope they get them out.
Thanks man. It’s a real shitshow over there right now.
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wab wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:10 pm
G08 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:56 pm

Pardon my naivety here, but are those *our* weapons that we left behind?
They are.
Fucking brilliant.
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G08 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:51 pm
wab wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:10 pm
They are.
Fucking brilliant.
Yeah, like Mmmc said, it’s proper fucked. When Bagram was abandoned it didn’t take long for the bajillions of dollars in guns, drones, anti-aircraft missiles, mraps, armored contractor vehicles, Blackhawks, night vision, body armor, encrypted communications equipment etc. to find their way into the wrong hands.
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I am simply appalled at how no one seems to be able to learn from past events ... the Russians tried the taming of Afghanistan years ago, and after a decade or more of battling with no results, said fuck it and went back home after many lives were lost for no apparent reason and leaving behind equipment ... but also leaving behind the Afghani nationals that helped them, allies who were then tortured and killed

and now here we are, seemingly repeating the same efforts that failed others before

as a former military member, I am ashamed at how our nation sent so many of their military personnel to their deaths to accomplish absolutely nothing, meaning those military members died in vain ... and those that were merely wounded returned to a severely deficient medical support system we should all be ashamed of

there is absolutely nothing positive about anything that went on during our involvement and current events only pound home the depths of our failures
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@Boris13c I am not a veteran but I like to listen to podcasts that interview veterans and it seems that anyone who toured there could see the writing on the wall immediately.

Regarding the "nothing positive" comment, in one interview I listened to a solider made the comment that while that seems true, since we were there for around 20 years, a lot of kids (especially girls) may have spent their whole lives in a world where they had access to education. Because of this, the Taliban may not find it as easy to impose their rule as before. It's easier to keep something from someone when they've never experienced having it in the first place.
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wab wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:52 am
G08 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:51 pm

Fucking brilliant.
Yeah, like Mmmc said, it’s proper fucked. When Bagram was abandoned it didn’t take long for the bajillions of dollars in guns, drones, anti-aircraft missiles, mraps, armored contractor vehicles, Blackhawks, night vision, body armor, encrypted communications equipment etc. to find their way into the wrong hands.
How are we this incompetent? I've always hated how much military spending this country has implemented year-in-and-year-out, it seems like we don't even care about leaving all this shit behind.
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We are a throw away society. Something doesn't quite work right, don't try to fix it. Throw it away and get new. Seems as if no one wanted to take the time to load this shit up and get it out of there. Fuck it, just leave it. Now that shit will be used against our guys still over there.
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G08 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:53 pm
wab wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:52 am
Yeah, like Mmmc said, it’s proper fucked. When Bagram was abandoned it didn’t take long for the bajillions of dollars in guns, drones, anti-aircraft missiles, mraps, armored contractor vehicles, Blackhawks, night vision, body armor, encrypted communications equipment etc. to find their way into the wrong hands.
How are we this incompetent? I've always hated how much military spending this country has implemented year-in-and-year-out, it seems like we don't even care about leaving all this shit behind.
We’ll, the rationale was that it was entirely too expensive to return this stuff stateside, so we would leave it all for the ANA (Afghanistan National Army) since we’d been training them for years in anticipation of the withdrawal. They would have this equipment at their disposal to continue stability in the region. But… they almost instantly collapsed.
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Xee wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:09 pm @Boris13c I am not a veteran but I like to listen to podcasts that interview veterans and it seems that anyone who toured there could see the writing on the wall immediately.

Regarding the "nothing positive" comment, in one interview I listened to a solider made the comment that while that seems true, since we were there for around 20 years, a lot of kids (especially girls) may have spent their whole lives in a world where they had access to education. Because of this, the Taliban may not find it as easy to impose their rule as before. It's easier to keep something from someone when they've never experienced having it in the first place.
unfortunately, the Taliban take a very dim view in regards to educated women so they are now the most in danger of a ruling party that wants to bring the country back to the dark ages
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@Boris13c

I think the USA really won Afghanistan until last week. 3k troops to keep a country pointed in the right direction wasnt a huge cost based on what could happen. 20 years we are just starting to see those born become adults in a more free country with education possibilities.

So I was deployed to Afghanistan. It's a super unique country. Beautiful, and yet a completely different world. Iraq was very different. Iraqis had some semblance of an education, and larger identity. It's not to say Afghans where dumb, but things like mechanics or traditional engineers where few. So the base level was much lower.

So I think you have a fairly reductionist version. The last 3 years have had almost no American deaths. The problem is multifaceted. However abandoning ship without a plan or life coat was retarded.
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@mmmc_35

I agree that progress was made at points along the way, but what exactly was the long term plan? continued US presence indefinitely?

and yeah, this pullout without a plan will certainly quickly undo any good that was accomplished as we watch the country be returned to the stoneage

and now there is the added bonus of the ISIS freaks who don't seem to care who they blow up

ISIS Branch Poses Biggest Immediate Terrorist Threat to Evacuation in Kabul
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Well a few things. I'm fairly anti intervention. However if you go to war you go to win. I personally dont believe a war needs to end by building back shit.

Punch them in the face until they stop moving. If they get up and challenge you again do the same thing.

However Americans feel we need to rebuild. If that's your plan you have to do it. I'm not a fan of it because it takes years, money, etc.

I always assumed bagrham would become a permanent duty station like Korea
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An old Friend of mine apparently is over there and doing rescues. I didnt even realize he laced them up to head over.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/us-special-op ... 23869.html
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mmmc_35 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:02 pm Well a few things. I'm fairly anti intervention. However if you go to war you go to win. I personally dont believe a war needs to end by building back shit.

Punch them in the face until they stop moving. If they get up and challenge you again do the same thing.

However Americans feel we need to rebuild. If that's your plan you have to do it. I'm not a fan of it because it takes years, money, etc.

I always assumed bagrham would become a permanent duty station like Korea
I too thought we would claim Bagram as a base for the foreseeable future ... instead, chaos and a seemingly panic stricken pullout that is eerily similar to what happened in Viet Nam
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mmmc_35 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:47 pm
wab wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:14 pm Gonna let this one go as long as it doesn't go "there".

I won't say much other than I have some contractor friends who are still stuck over there. They stayed to help coordinate the evacuation of the embassy and weren't able to get to the airport afterwards. They are safe though at the moment, just waiting.
Man I hope it works out for your friends. The whole thing is proper fucked. Depending on where they where at, it could be impossible to get out. We would fly jingo air and the terrain of that county is beautiful but not easy to navigate. I hope they get them out.
My buddies are clear of Kabul. They are chilling in Doha just waiting now.
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wab wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:48 pm
mmmc_35 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:47 pm

Man I hope it works out for your friends. The whole thing is proper fucked. Depending on where they where at, it could be impossible to get out. We would fly jingo air and the terrain of that county is beautiful but not easy to navigate. I hope they get them out.
My buddies are clear of Kabul. They are chilling in Doha just waiting now.
Awesome. My buddy working on the pineapple Express seems to have gotten quite a few guys out.

It sounds like chaos over there. What do your buddies think?
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mmmc_35 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:08 am
wab wrote: Sun Aug 29, 2021 8:48 pm

My buddies are clear of Kabul. They are chilling in Doha just waiting now.
Awesome. My buddy working on the pineapple Express seems to have gotten quite a few guys out.

It sounds like chaos over there. What do your buddies think?
Same, total chaos. Non one knows whose side anyone is on, Taliban going door to door pulling people from their houses, just a mess.
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Not gonna fly.
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