QB Prospect Discussion: Deshone Kizer, Notre Dame

[mmmc_35]

I really wanted this to be my guy, but I am not sold yet. He is still very raw. However has a full snap on truck full of tools. I watched the Texas, Michigan State, Stanford games. He kind of reminds me of Kapernick (sp?)

Weakness

- mechanics are very inconsistent. Will get a wide base and has a pitcher follow through. Doesn't always turn his hips into throws.
The above leads to miss placed passes.
-makes some bad reads.
- inconsistent overall

Strengths
-athletic
-Does read the entire field
- plus arm strength
- can but didn't always make touch passes
- young but poised

mmqb piece


USA today report

nfl.com

nflmocks.com/2016/10/02/2017-nfl-draft-deshone-kizer-widens-lead-in-qb-race/amp/1/

[dapianna]

I like him, but I'm not sure he'll be available at pick 32...

[G08]

I think Kizer is destined for Cleveland or San Francisco.

[southdakbearfan]

Dislike him a lot. Inconsistent mechanics and play is not what I want from a first round QB.

[Boris13c]

who was the last QB from Notre Dame who was worth anything in the NFL?

Joe Montana (HoF), Joe Theisman (decent enough after stint in CFL) and Steve Buerlein (average schmoe who didn't suck) are the only ones I can think of ... no one recent has been worth a shit (and the Bears tried out 2 of the turds - Mirer and Clausen) ... so what is it about Notre Dame having QB's who get rated high but suck after college?

Notre Dame players seem to get a lot more recognition and accolades than they deserve, and keep in mind I am a Notre Dame fan

[Boris13c]

Notre Dame QB DeShone Kizer decides to declare for NFL draft

Notre Dame redshirt sophomore quarterback DeShone Kizer has declared for the NFL draft, the school announced.

"Thank you. NFL bound," Kizer said toward the end of a minute-long video on Bleacher Report.

Kizer started the past 23 games for the Fighting Irish, with a 12-11 record. He threw for 5,809 yards with 47 touchdowns and 19 interceptions, adding 992 rushing yards and 18 more scores on the ground.

The 6-foot-4, 230-pound Kizer assumed the starting role in the third game of the 2015 season, replacing Malik Zaire after Zaire suffered a broken ankle against Virginia in Week 2. Kizer threw a game-winning touchdown pass and never looked back, starting every Irish contest since.

I guess he figures since this is a weak QB class, someone will pony up first round $$$ for him

I do not think he is worth it, but I am fairly certain someone will

[wab]

I'm as big of a ND fan as there is here, and Kizer is probably the most NFL ready...but he has an awful lot of bad habits and he's a stubborn sonofabitch.

Having watched almost every collegiate throw he's made, I don't know that I'd take him before the 2nd round.

[alexwilkins]

Something that makes me think some clubs will be skeptical to take Kizer is the fact that there hasn't been a QB coming off a losng season drafted in the first 2 rounds since 2012, and that was Brock Osweiler. Not comparing players, just something I did some research on.

[BamaBear09]

Something that makes me think some clubs will be skeptical to take Kizer is the fact that there hasn't been a QB coming off a losng season drafted in the first 2 rounds since 2012, and that was Brock Osweiler. Not comparing players, just something I did some research on.

For me there's a fear in that sub 60% completion rate and only two years of experience, there really has been only one QB who came out after two seasons with a sub 60% completion rate that had any success in the NFL and that was mainly because he was a supremely dynamic runner, that guy would be Michael Vick... I know Kizer has quick feet but I don't see any Vick like highlights when I look around at his stuff.

[wab]

Something that makes me think some clubs will be skeptical to take Kizer is the fact that there hasn't been a QB coming off a losng season drafted in the first 2 rounds since 2012, and that was Brock Osweiler. Not comparing players, just something I did some research on.

For me there's a fear in that sub 60% completion rate and only two years of experience, there really has been only one QB who came out after two seasons with a sub 60% completion rate that had any success in the NFL and that was mainly because he was a supremely dynamic runner, that guy would be Michael Vick... I know Kizer has quick feet but I don't see any Vick like highlights when I look around at his stuff.

The problem with your completion percentage stats is that the draft only has the guys that are entering the draft. Teams are going to have to weigh that completion percentage against how they view the players talent and ability to be developed. It's not going to stop one or more of these guys from being drafted in the first round.

GM's aren't going to say "well he's an underclassmen with a sub 60% completion rate...we ain't draftin that bum". They are going to look at that as one of many factors.

[BamaBear09]

Something that makes me think some clubs will be skeptical to take Kizer is the fact that there hasn't been a QB coming off a losng season drafted in the first 2 rounds since 2012, and that was Brock Osweiler. Not comparing players, just something I did some research on.

For me there's a fear in that sub 60% completion rate and only two years of experience, there really has been only one QB who came out after two seasons with a sub 60% completion rate that had any success in the NFL and that was mainly because he was a supremely dynamic runner, that guy would be Michael Vick... I know Kizer has quick feet but I don't see any Vick like highlights when I look around at his stuff.

The problem with your completion percentage stats is that the draft only has the guys that are entering the draft. Teams are going to have to weigh that completion percentage against how they view the players talent and ability to be developed. It's not going to stop one or more of these guys from being drafted in the first round.

GM's aren't going to say "well he's an underclassmen with a sub 60% completion rate...we ain't draftin that bum". They are going to look at that as one of many factors.

I'm still waiting on your compiled list of underclassmen QBs who have developed into elite NFL starters... you know the ones who were evaluated and developed correctly, since NFL teams have done it so well over the past... forever...

[wab]

Something that makes me think some clubs will be skeptical to take Kizer is the fact that there hasn't been a QB coming off a losng season drafted in the first 2 rounds since 2012, and that was Brock Osweiler. Not comparing players, just something I did some research on.

For me there's a fear in that sub 60% completion rate and only two years of experience, there really has been only one QB who came out after two seasons with a sub 60% completion rate that had any success in the NFL and that was mainly because he was a supremely dynamic runner, that guy would be Michael Vick... I know Kizer has quick feet but I don't see any Vick like highlights when I look around at his stuff.

The problem with your completion percentage stats is that the draft only has the guys that are entering the draft. Teams are going to have to weigh that completion percentage against how they view the players talent and ability to be developed. It's not going to stop one or more of these guys from being drafted in the first round.

GM's aren't going to say "well he's an underclassmen with a sub 60% completion rate...we ain't draftin that bum". They are going to look at that as one of many factors.

I'm still waiting on your compiled list of underclassmen QBs who have developed into elite NFL starters... you know the ones who were evaluated and developed correctly, since NFL teams have done it so well over the past... forever...

I'm still waiting for the day that teams stop drafting underclassmen QB's.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Dislike him a lot. Inconsistent mechanics and play is not what I want from a first round QB.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Of all the prospects posted. He's the last on my list.

[RING4CHI]

I think Kizer is destined for Cleveland or San Francisco.

Good. They can have him. The Bears don't need to be set back 10 years by Deshone "What are you doing?" Kizer.

http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/watch-brian ... doing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hiphopopotamos]

FWIW - Matt Millers updated mock has Chicago drafting Kizer at 3. Miller thinks that by the end of all of this Kizer will work himself back into being a top 10 selection.

Here are the first 15 picks in Millers two round mock draft:



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2686 ... ction-more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[G08]

Ugh. No. Please God no.

[Philtration]

Kizer to the Bears is the lazy prediction.
That was a popular choice before the NFL and college seasons started and that was when people thought that Kizer would be the best QB coming out and the Beasr would not have the 3rd overall pick.
They just never bothered to update the prediction.
He is not ready to leave college and he certainly is not worth the 3rd overall pick in the draft.
You can take Jonathan Allen with your 1st pick and still get a better QB in the 2nd and maybe even the 3rd round.
I would much rather see them get Pat Mahomes with their 2nd rounder than them drafting Kizer.
Kizer is not a big difference maker and he does not win you games. The hype is strong with this one.
A big NO to Kizer in the 1st round even if they traded back.

[Adipost]

After doing some homework, I believe Kizer is the obvious choice for pace.

[DaSuperfan]

After doing some homework, I believe Kizer is the obvious choice for pace.

Can you elaborate a little more and give us your reasons? I'd be inclined to think that he is exactly the opposite of what Pace is looking for. He's been a turnover machine and lacks consistency - two things that Pace repeatedly pointed out in his press conference after the season.

[wab]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

[Adipost]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

[G08]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

[wab]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

As someone who has watched him his entire career, I'm not entirely sure what you are seeing. He's got great size and all the athletic ability in the world. He has a good enough arm. His mechanics are pretty good.

BUT. He's never been able to put it all together at the same time on the field. Why is that? Because he's a stubborn ass that doesn't take to coaching. He freelances too much and plays outside of the offense. He wants to take control of things and makes boneheaded mistakes as a result. He doesn't see the field well and misreads coverage badly. Those aren't traits I want in a QB at the next level.

[G08]

I'd take a flier on him in round 2 if he's there, but I think he's ticketed for Arizona.

[Adipost]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

As someone who has watched him his entire career, I'm not entirely sure what you are seeing. He's got great size and all the athletic ability in the world. He has a good enough arm. His mechanics are pretty good.

BUT. He's never been able to put it all together at the same time on the field. Why is that? Because he's a stubborn ass that doesn't take to coaching. He freelances too much and plays outside of the offense. He wants to take control of things and makes boneheaded mistakes as a result. He doesn't see the field well and misreads coverage badly. Those aren't traits I want in a QB at the next level.

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

[G08]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

[Adipost]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

You can find flaws in every QB. The question you ask yourself when selecting a QB in the first round is "can this dude become a franchise QB.

Deshaun Watson
-Frequently overthrows receivers
-bad ball placement on 50/50 balls where his receivers bail him out.
-they call many scripted one read throws for him
-runs too much for his size
-has trouble identifying the underneath LB and over top Safety
-Bails out of the pocket too often. When his first read is covered and he feels any kind of pressure, he immediately runs.
-Stares down receivers

[wab]

Kizer is unequivocally not the most "talented" QB in the draft. He might, with a HEAVY emphasis on might, have the highest ceiling. But he just reeks of Akili Smith to me.

[G08]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

You can find flaws in every QB. The question you ask yourself when selecting a QB in the first round is "can this dude become a franchise QB.

Deshaun Watson
-Frequently overthrows receivers This is debatable to me only because often times it's a deep shot that is missed by a hair
-bad ball placement on 50/50 balls where his receivers bail him out. Heavy disagreement here. I counted two or three this past season where he threw a 50/50 ball and didn't account for the WR being jammed at the line. Other times he has thrown freaking dimes (See: Championship Game, National)
-they call many scripted one read throws for him meh, that's fair
-runs too much for his size I disagree here, I've seen him truck linebackers and take clean shots from blitzers and have them bounce off his body like it's nothing
-has trouble identifying the underneath LB and over top SafetyI wouldn't say identifying but there have been 2 or 3 instances where he missed the LB or defensive back reading his eyes
-Bails out of the pocket too often. When his first read is covered and he feels any kind of pressure, he immediately runs. this is valid as well, although it doesn't happen every time. I'm also curious as to how much of the system tells him to take his read and if it's not there take off. I'll never poo-poo positive yards.
-Stares down receivers I won't deny this, it's the #1 thing I don't like about him but I think that changes with reps in a professional system

[wab]

The thing I like the most about Watson is that everyone says he's like a coach on the field. He's like a second offensive coordinator and is a student of the game. The dude knows what everyone is supposed to be doing and where everyone is supposed to be. That helps quell a lot of issues I have with the interceptions, because he knows his offense backwards and forwards.

A lot of his picks came when Williams was out. Cain is talented, but an incredibly undisciplined player. And they don't ask Scott to do much beyond taking the ball on reverses and screens. You see what happens when a QB expects someone to be somewhere and they aren't. See: Hester, Devin.