Every single pass completed by Tru against the Pack

[Atkins&Rebel]

I'm still not sure why everyone is so upset about Trubisky taking sacks when there's nothing there. Especially after we just ran a guy out of town who did a lot of what you guys are suggesting Trubisky do.

Bears have 10yr vet who is an athletic gunslinger with huge arm that tries to make something out of nothing, with solid talent around him, which still works against him more often than not. Bears fans hate him for it and chastise coaches for not telling him to be more careful with the ball. Bears ultimately run him out of town.

Bears have rookie that has started like 16 games since high school who is an athletic gunslinger with huge arm that tries to protect the ball rather than make something out of nothing, with less than adequate talent around him. Bears fans don't hate him for it because he's not the other guy, but chastise coaches for apparently turning him into a pussy.

#Bearsfans

Wow, that is a harsh slant on how some of us feel, and a totally apologetic view of Cutler.

First, there is a happy balance between the two extremes you describe and until Trubusky pushes the limits he will never know where that threshold is. It's his rookie year, I want him to learn at the expense of conservatism. This last game he was throwing a bit more and he looked good. But it seemed like Watson was given a play and given the OK to improvise if needed...on many plays.

Second, Cutler had 3 bad faults.
-He rarely threw his WR open. He had to see him open first.
-He believed that his arm could compensate for defenders having position
-He made reads slow and held the ball too long even when he had protection.

Way to miss the point. Philosophically people are wanting Trubisky to do almost EXACTLY what they didn't want Cutler to do. Air it out and see what happens. Let it rip. Interceptions be damned.

NO, that is the point you're projecting onto people who want to see Trubisky throw the ball.
Part of him opening up is allowing him to make mistakes and learn from them.
Cutler never learned from his mistakes and made the same ones (that I laid out above), over and over and over. That is why he was run out of town.
Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

[Rusty Trombagent]

The Josh Bellamy play rings true in my head, I'm of the opinion if he wasn't coached to eat it unless the play was wide open, he would have completed that pass.

And for the record, I loved Jay Cutler

So did I. Pretty sure we were the only ones.

well, that's some bullshit.

[wab]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

That argument I buy...not what you were saying before.

[wab]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

That argument I buy...not what you were saying before.

They go together. You gotta see the forest for the trees.

[Richie]

I'm still not sure why everyone is so upset about Trubisky taking sacks when there's nothing there. Especially after we just ran a guy out of town who did a lot of what you guys are suggesting Trubisky do.

Bears have 10yr vet who is an athletic gunslinger with huge arm that tries to make something out of nothing, with solid talent around him, which still works against him more often than not. Bears fans hate him for it and chastise coaches for not telling him to be more careful with the ball. Bears ultimately run him out of town.

Bears have rookie that has started like 16 games since high school who is an athletic gunslinger with huge arm that tries to protect the ball rather than make something out of nothing, with less than adequate talent around him. Bears fans don't hate him for it because he's not the other guy, but chastise coaches for apparently turning him into a pussy.

#Bearsfans

Wow, that is a harsh slant on how some of us feel, and a totally apologetic view of Cutler.

First, there is a happy balance between the two extremes you describe and until Trubusky pushes the limits he will never know where that threshold is. It's his rookie year, I want him to learn at the expense of conservatism. This last game he was throwing a bit more and he looked good. But it seemed like Watson was given a play and given the OK to improvise if needed...on many plays.

Second, Cutler had 3 bad faults.
-He rarely threw his WR open. He had to see him open first.
-He believed that his arm could compensate for defenders having position
-He made reads slow and held the ball too long even when he had protection.

Way to miss the point. Philosophically people are wanting Trubisky to do almost EXACTLY what they didn't want Cutler to do. Air it out and see what happens. Let it rip. Interceptions be damned.

NO, that is the point you're projecting onto people who want to see Trubisky throw the ball.
Part of him opening up is allowing him to make mistakes and learn from them.
Cutler never learned from his mistakes and made the same ones (that I laid out above), over and over and over. That is why he was run out of town.
Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

I think that's what was most disappointing about Jay.

He would go on runs of very good play, and prove to you that he was capable of figuring it out. Then, inexplicably... at a horrible time. He'd revert back to where he started. I never understood it.

It was always in games you never would have picked for him to suck either. He'd rise to the occasion often time in tough matchups (MIN last year, for example), and surprise you. Then, he'd go throw 4 INT's at Tampa Bay or something.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

That argument I buy...not what you were saying before.

They go together. You gotta see the forest for the trees.

Sorry.
Fox being conservative and holding Trubisky on a leash has nothing to do with you saying those of us wanting him to throw more equates us to confused Cutler fans. That's just circular arguing at best and vague ad hominem attacks on a juvenile level.

[Wounded Bear]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

I'm sorry, I'll agree that our receivers do suck and they have a hard time catching the ball, but last Sunday I definitely DID see a number of receivers wide open and Trubisky either throwing to a guy in double coverage or simply throwing the ball too late. There were numerous plays where our receivers had a decent window when they were open (usually right after they had made a break in their pattern) and Trubisky totally missed the opportunity to hit them. And no, it wasn't an anomaly. It happened over and over again.

So after seeing this, I re-watched the game using the "Coaches Film" on NFL Game Pass which gives you a wide shot of the field......and Trubisky's reads were fairly egregious. Does that mean I think Trubisky sucks and that Pace has made a huge mistake? No, I don't, but I will say that Trubisky isn't nearly at the same level as a Carson Wentz was when he was a rookie even acknowledging that they are different teams with different personnel, etc., I get it.

At this point, I really don't give too much of a damn whether our wideouts can catch the ball or not, I just want to see if Trubisky can hit them when their open. Whether or not they actually catch the ball, that's their problem, but if Tru hits them when their open, that's a win in my book.

[wab]

Manning was allowed to make mistakes, and so were a slew of other rookies who went onto be quality starters.

We can't hold him back out of fear that he might not become a pro bowler, and expect him to develop into a pro bowler.

Manning also had Reggie Wayne, Tarik Glenn, Marcus Pollard, and Marshall Faulk. Not Josh Bellamy, Charles Leno, and a basketball player from Ashland. And the slew of rookies that went on to be quality starters generally didn't have coaches trying to win games as to not get fired.

Letting a rookie QB make mistakes and learn is fine, but not when you have a championship level defense and a staff that's hanging on by a thread. Whatever you think of Fox, he's trying to win some damn games because...it's his job.
It's just not as black and white as you want it to be.

That argument I buy...not what you were saying before.

They go together. You gotta see the forest for the trees.

Sorry.
Fox being conservative and holding Trubisky on a leash has nothing to do with you saying those of us wanting him to throw more equates us to confused Cutler fans. That's just circular arguing at best and vague ad hominem attacks on a juvenile level.

I never said anything about confused Cutler fans. Now you are just making up stuff in your head. I'm saying the Bears have had two players. One, fans wanted reigned in to prevent turnovers. One, fans don't want reigned in...turnovers be damned. Even though there are coaches fighting for wins to save their jobs for an organization has been plagued by careless QB play for a decade. If you are taking those statements personally, then that's on you.

I would prefer the kid learn the game. I prefer a sack over an interception. If you think him taking sacks is ALL on Fox, then you are just wrong. He's just as responsible for what he does out there.

I'm hoping he's smart enough that when he has more experience and a little more talent around him, that he will know when to take the sack and when to take the chance. If he doesn't, then he wasn't worth the #2 overall pick.

[Atkins&Rebel]

Sorry I used a metaphor, didn't mean to get so complicated on you.

[Boris13c]

Cutler somehow always seems to pop up in a conversation or 2 ... even when he wasn't playing and now even though he isn't on the team

Jay Cutler = Jeff George

* strong arms
* stubborn
* physically gifted but mentally challenged
* same amount of championship hardware

so no, I do not want Trubisky following that same path as some alluded to ...

[BR0D1E86]

Cutler somehow always seems to pop up in a conversation or 2 ... even when he wasn't playing and now even though he isn't on the team

Jay Cutler = Jeff George

* strong arms
* stubborn
* physically gifted but mentally challenged
* same amount of championship hardware

so no, I do not want Trubisky following that same path as some alluded to ...

While absolutely true that we want and need Trubisky to be better than Cutler in several ways, the difference is Cutler was doing that stuff as a seasoned vet. He was what he was. Turnovers from Trubisky would be frustrating, but more forgivable than Cutler, provided he learns from them and matures. Something Cutler never did.

And the simple fact is (at least I consider is a fact), they're setting up Trubisky to fail anyway by the vast majority of his attempts being on either second or third and long.

[wab]

Cutler somehow always seems to pop up in a conversation or 2 ... even when he wasn't playing and now even though he isn't on the team

Jay Cutler = Jeff George

* strong arms
* stubborn
* physically gifted but mentally challenged
* same amount of championship hardware

so no, I do not want Trubisky following that same path as some alluded to ...

While absolutely true that we want and need Trubisky to be better than Cutler in several ways, the difference is Cutler was doing that stuff as a seasoned vet. He was what he was. Turnovers from Trubisky would be frustrating, but more forgivable than Cutler, provided he learns from them and matures. Something Cutler never did.

And the simple fact is (at least I consider is a fact), they're setting up Trubisky to fail anyway by the vast majority of his attempts being on either second or third and long.

My point is that Cutler never LEARNED to take a sack. My hope is that with experience and playing time, Trubisky starts to trust what he sees and knows when it's ok to take that risk and when it's not. He's a little risk averse right now, and that's ok. He knows that he can't put the offense in a bad position when the margin for error is already really slim.

If I have one complaint about Trubisky right now is that he needs to understand when to throw the ball away vs taking a sack.

[PapaDongo]

Cutler somehow always seems to pop up in a conversation or 2 ... even when he wasn't playing and now even though he isn't on the team

Jay Cutler = Jeff George

* strong arms
* stubborn
* physically gifted but mentally challenged
* same amount of championship hardware

so no, I do not want Trubisky following that same path as some alluded to ...

While absolutely true that we want and need Trubisky to be better than Cutler in several ways, the difference is Cutler was doing that stuff as a seasoned vet. He was what he was. Turnovers from Trubisky would be frustrating, but more forgivable than Cutler, provided he learns from them and matures. Something Cutler never did.

And the simple fact is (at least I consider is a fact), they're setting up Trubisky to fail anyway by the vast majority of his attempts being on either second or third and long.

My point is that Cutler never LEARNED to take a sack. My hope is that with experience and playing time, Trubisky starts to trust what he sees and knows when it's ok to take that risk and when it's not. He's a little risk averse right now, and that's ok. He knows that he can't put the offense in a bad position when the margin for error is already really slim.

If I have one complaint about Trubisky right now is that he needs to understand when to throw the ball away vs taking a sack.

Glad people are finally coming around to the fact Tru is taking sacks on purpose. I agree next step is for Tru to get better at throwing it away and then next level CHIT is when Tru feels the rush and evades it for a completion but he gwan need some actual talent at WR to do that stuff.

[Boris13c]

Glad people are finally coming around to the fact Tru is taking sacks on purpose.

I haven't

and I still don't think that is being referred

maybe it is just my perception on how this is being phrased, so let's discuss it

to me, "taking a sack on purpose" means dropping back and then simply going down and surrendering yourself ... play over ... you want to see a real tainted one, watch the replay of when Favre did exactly that so Michael Strahan could tap him down and get the sack record

[video][/video]

I haven't seen Trubisky do that once ... has he and I missed it?

[PapaDongo]

Glad people are finally coming around to the fact Tru is taking sacks on purpose.

I haven't

and I still don't think that is being referred

maybe it is just my perception on how this is being phrased, so let's discuss it

to me, "taking a sack on purpose" means dropping back and then simply going down and surrendering yourself ... play over ... you want to see a real tainted one, watch the replay of when Favre did exactly that so Michael Strahan could tap him down and get the sack record

[video][/video]

I haven't seen Trubisky do that once ... has he and I missed it?

I already told you I'm not getting into it with you about this subject so I aint.

[Boris13c]

I already told you I'm not getting into it with you about this subject so I aint.

so you're happy to spew forth with your opinion but not open to an actual discussion?

noted

[UOK]

This conversation is slowly making me dumber. Please, everyone, if a comment is blatantly mind-numbing, do your best to simply ignore it and carry on a higher quality of discussion.