WAB Mock Draft - Super Bowl Edition

College football and the NFL Draft

Moderator: wab

User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

G08 wrote:I'm not so sure Sitton makes our 53 next season... I'd have to think Pace wants to kick the tires on Morgan and/or get younger on the OL and have this group locked in and working together for (God willing) the forseeable future.
Leno - 26
Long - 29
Whitehair - 25
Josh Sitton - 32
Bobby Massie - 29

Only Leno and Whitehair classify as "young".

Granted they have Grasu, Morgan, Lee, and Kush...all guys under 27. But to get younger the Bears are going to have some work to do.

In my Madden-esq world, the line would be Long, Leno, Grasu, Whitehair, Massie. Let Morgan and Kush backup on the inside and draft a guy to take over for Massie (eventually sliding over to replace Long with a new rookie coming in at RT in a couple years).

But that's not how the world works.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

wab wrote:
G08 wrote:I'm not so sure Sitton makes our 53 next season... I'd have to think Pace wants to kick the tires on Morgan and/or get younger on the OL and have this group locked in and working together for (God willing) the forseeable future.
Leno - 26
Long - 29
Whitehair - 25
Josh Sitton - 32
Bobby Massie - 29

Only Leno and Whitehair classify as "young".

Granted they have Grasu, Morgan, Lee, and Kush...all guys under 27. But to get younger the Bears are going to have some work to do.

In my Madden-esq world, the line would be Long, Leno, Grasu, Whitehair, Massie. Let Morgan and Kush backup on the inside and draft a guy to take over for Massie (eventually sliding over to replace Long with a new rookie coming in at RT in a couple years).

But that's not how the world works.
I think Leno is locked into LT for the foreseeable future, and I hope they decide to make Whitehair a guard. That allows us to get rid of Sitton, have the option to throw some $$$ at a FA center, and then we decide what to do with Long. If he's our RT then we should see if Morgan can start at guard. If Long is a guard then, yeah, we have a decision to make at RT.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
G08 wrote:I'm not so sure Sitton makes our 53 next season... I'd have to think Pace wants to kick the tires on Morgan and/or get younger on the OL and have this group locked in and working together for (God willing) the forseeable future.
Leno - 26
Long - 29
Whitehair - 25
Josh Sitton - 32
Bobby Massie - 29

Only Leno and Whitehair classify as "young".

Granted they have Grasu, Morgan, Lee, and Kush...all guys under 27. But to get younger the Bears are going to have some work to do.

In my Madden-esq world, the line would be Long, Leno, Grasu, Whitehair, Massie. Let Morgan and Kush backup on the inside and draft a guy to take over for Massie (eventually sliding over to replace Long with a new rookie coming in at RT in a couple years).

But that's not how the world works.
I think Leno is locked into LT for the foreseeable future, and I hope they decide to make Whitehair a guard. That allows us to get rid of Sitton, have the option to throw some $$$ at a FA center, and then we decide what to do with Long. If he's our RT then we should see if Morgan can start at guard. If Long is a guard then, yeah, we have a decision to make at RT.
Yeah, I mean I know Leno isn't going anywhere at LT. Nor should he really...as much as that pains me to type.

Leno, Morgan, Grasu/FA, Whitehair, Long works I suppose.
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 204 times

G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
G08 wrote:I'm not so sure Sitton makes our 53 next season... I'd have to think Pace wants to kick the tires on Morgan and/or get younger on the OL and have this group locked in and working together for (God willing) the forseeable future.
Leno - 26
Long - 29
Whitehair - 25
Josh Sitton - 32
Bobby Massie - 29

Only Leno and Whitehair classify as "young".

Granted they have Grasu, Morgan, Lee, and Kush...all guys under 27. But to get younger the Bears are going to have some work to do.

In my Madden-esq world, the line would be Long, Leno, Grasu, Whitehair, Massie. Let Morgan and Kush backup on the inside and draft a guy to take over for Massie (eventually sliding over to replace Long with a new rookie coming in at RT in a couple years).

But that's not how the world works.
I think Leno is locked into LT for the foreseeable future, and I hope they decide to make Whitehair a guard. That allows us to get rid of Sitton, have the option to throw some $$$ at a FA center, and then we decide what to do with Long. If he's our RT then we should see if Morgan can start at guard. If Long is a guard then, yeah, we have a decision to make at RT.
The thing with guards is the opportunity cost if you have an elite one on elite money. If you've got a great coach and a scheme that can tolerate it, rotate in new guys every few years rather than dropping $8m per on the one that your scheme made great. Let the expensive one go and draft his replacement with the compensatory pick.

I'm down with moving Whitehair to guard and giving Grasu another bash at centre but I wouldn't cut Sitton until I was more confident with Grasu and might he have the tiniest bit of trade value? Probably not but if a team with some cap space loses a starting guard late in camp...

Our line was actually ok this year despite all the chopping and changing. Long isn't going anywhere but it would be interesting to think about whether there's any hope in Leno - Whitehair - Grasu - Morgan - Long. Seems far too risky for Pace but it's a thought...

EDIT: wab beat me to it...
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Continuity is huge for Heistand. He rarely shuffles guys around. He likes to put them in a spot and keep them there, so all the injuries the Bears seem to have on the interior prevent that.

It's going to be a bit of a different scheme though, so we'll see.
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 204 times

wab wrote:Continuity is huge for Heistand. He rarely shuffles guys around. He likes to put them in a spot and keep them there, so all the injuries the Bears seem to have on the interior prevent that.

It's going to be a bit of a different scheme though, so we'll see.
Fair point though I was thinking changing after four years rather than fairly regularly.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

Someone mentioned that Pace said they're done jacking Long around to different spots in another forum... I kind of recall him saying that but I can't say for certain.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

I get confused by some of this talk.

Sitton is a pro bowl caliber gaurd when healthy.

Grasu is terrible.

Morgan was a late round d2 prospect.

You can't cut a guy who will play at his level with a lesser player. He started 13 games this year and 12 last. Until you have a legit replacement how about we keep him for a bit.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

The problem with keeping some of these guys is that 3 out of the five guys on the line are are at, or above 30. And the only one of those guys that hasn’t been injured is Massie, and he’s pretty much universally hated around here. At some point you have to go with the younger guy...the guy that you gmdrafted, and see if he’s worth a shit.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Part of the reason Heistand was hired was to develop talent on the OL. Just like he developed Nelson and McGlinchey into top 15 picks. I'm with G08...Heistand is here to coach 3rd-6th round guys into starting level players.

I'm a ND homer, so I'd have ZERO problems with either of those guys on the Bears...but I don't think the have to be drafted just because the Bears hired their position coach.
If Nelson were a GOOD OG and I was taking this position, I might relent. But he really is a cornerstone for an OL for 10 years. If you think Trubisky is your QB of the future, then you need to build an OL around him. A franchise QB is useless if he doesn't have time to throw the football. I can see Heistand coaching up Morgan, Whitehair and Grasu. But it would be a HUGE help if you had a potential All-Pro OG, that was coached by Heistand, to help translate the techniques.
So do you cut Sitton for Nelson? Do you cut Massie and move Long to RT and play Nelson at RG in Long's place? Do you cut Massie and try Nelson at RT? Do you move Leno inside somewhere and let Nelson play LT?

Even though I think pass rusher is the biggest need right now, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. One of the biggest draws of drafting Nelson is that he can play anywhere. It's just...where does he play with the Bears? If you draft Nelson, someone has to go. One of Massie or Sitton would be my guess.
I agree with G08. Not sure Sitton makes the squad. My feeling is that you look at an OL of Leno-Whitehair-Grasu-Nelson-Long. Morgan is supposed to be a special talent, just very raw. Let Heistand coach up Morgan and Kush, and then you have options. Grasu wasn't good in the offense we were running, I'll bet he's a lot better when he gets out on the move, back in a WCO.
Image
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

mmmc_35 wrote:I get confused by some of this talk.

Sitton is a pro bowl caliber gaurd when healthy.

Grasu is terrible.

Morgan was a late round d2 prospect.

You can't cut a guy who will play at his level with a lesser player. He started 13 games this year and 12 last. Until you have a legit replacement how about we keep him for a bit.
Grasu was terrible in Loggains' offense. What happens when he goes back to a WCO or spread offense?

Morgan was an All-American his JR. & SR. seasons. Let Heistand get his mitts on him for a year.
Image
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:I get confused by some of this talk.

Sitton is a pro bowl caliber gaurd when healthy.

Grasu is terrible.

Morgan was a late round d2 prospect.

You can't cut a guy who will play at his level with a lesser player. He started 13 games this year and 12 last. Until you have a legit replacement how about we keep him for a bit.
Grasu was terrible in Loggains' offense. What happens when he goes back to a WCO or spread offense?

Morgan was an All-American his JR. & SR. seasons. Let Heistand get his mitts on him for a year.
Don’t forget Helfrich was with Grasu at Oregon.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:I get confused by some of this talk.

Sitton is a pro bowl caliber gaurd when healthy.

Grasu is terrible.

Morgan was a late round d2 prospect.

You can't cut a guy who will play at his level with a lesser player. He started 13 games this year and 12 last. Until you have a legit replacement how about we keep him for a bit.
Grasu was terrible in Loggains' offense. What happens when he goes back to a WCO or spread offense?

Morgan was an All-American his JR. & SR. seasons. Let Heistand get his mitts on him for a year.
Don’t forget Helfrich was with Grasu at Oregon.
Exactly, and that makes me think he might have a legit shot at the gig.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

WTF. Grasu has been bad and hurt. Sitton was a pro bowler in a WCO. Morgan played like 10 Reps in preseason. Y'all want to cut a high level starter with no replacement. I am all for drafting OLine. Signing oline. But those two really? How about we keep the pro bowler for a minute.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Part of the reason Heistand was hired was to develop talent on the OL. Just like he developed Nelson and McGlinchey into top 15 picks. I'm with G08...Heistand is here to coach 3rd-6th round guys into starting level players.

I'm a ND homer, so I'd have ZERO problems with either of those guys on the Bears...but I don't think the have to be drafted just because the Bears hired their position coach.
If Nelson were a GOOD OG and I was taking this position, I might relent. But he really is a cornerstone for an OL for 10 years. If you think Trubisky is your QB of the future, then you need to build an OL around him. A franchise QB is useless if he doesn't have time to throw the football. I can see Heistand coaching up Morgan, Whitehair and Grasu. But it would be a HUGE help if you had a potential All-Pro OG, that was coached by Heistand, to help translate the techniques.
So do you cut Sitton for Nelson? Do you cut Massie and move Long to RT and play Nelson at RG in Long's place? Do you cut Massie and try Nelson at RT? Do you move Leno inside somewhere and let Nelson play LT?

Even though I think pass rusher is the biggest need right now, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. One of the biggest draws of drafting Nelson is that he can play anywhere. It's just...where does he play with the Bears? If you draft Nelson, someone has to go. One of Massie or Sitton would be my guess.
Is this really true? I have yet to read aboot Nelson playing anywhere other than guard in the NFL.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:I get confused by some of this talk.

Sitton is a pro bowl caliber gaurd when healthy.

Grasu is terrible.

Morgan was a late round d2 prospect.

You can't cut a guy who will play at his level with a lesser player. He started 13 games this year and 12 last. Until you have a legit replacement how about we keep him for a bit.
Grasu was terrible in Loggains' offense. What happens when he goes back to a WCO or spread offense?

Morgan was an All-American his JR. & SR. seasons. Let Heistand get his mitts on him for a year.
Don’t forget Helfrich was with Grasu at Oregon.
zactly...

If anyone is going to know Grasu's capabilities in this type of offense, it will be Helfrich.
Image
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

mmmc_35 wrote:WTF. Grasu has been bad and hurt. Sitton was a pro bowler in a WCO. Morgan played like 10 Reps in preseason. Y'all want to cut a high level starter with no replacement. I am all for drafting OLine. Signing oline. But those two really? How about we keep the pro bowler for a minute.
Honestly, with a little Heistand thrown in, Whitehair = Sitton. Sitton is 31 years old. He has been injured off and on the last two years, and he has an $8.5M cap hit, with $660K in dead money. Sorry, but Sitton is in the crosshairs.
Image
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

Adipost wrote:
wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Part of the reason Heistand was hired was to develop talent on the OL. Just like he developed Nelson and McGlinchey into top 15 picks. I'm with G08...Heistand is here to coach 3rd-6th round guys into starting level players.

I'm a ND homer, so I'd have ZERO problems with either of those guys on the Bears...but I don't think the have to be drafted just because the Bears hired their position coach.
If Nelson were a GOOD OG and I was taking this position, I might relent. But he really is a cornerstone for an OL for 10 years. If you think Trubisky is your QB of the future, then you need to build an OL around him. A franchise QB is useless if he doesn't have time to throw the football. I can see Heistand coaching up Morgan, Whitehair and Grasu. But it would be a HUGE help if you had a potential All-Pro OG, that was coached by Heistand, to help translate the techniques.
So do you cut Sitton for Nelson? Do you cut Massie and move Long to RT and play Nelson at RG in Long's place? Do you cut Massie and try Nelson at RT? Do you move Leno inside somewhere and let Nelson play LT?

Even though I think pass rusher is the biggest need right now, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. One of the biggest draws of drafting Nelson is that he can play anywhere. It's just...where does he play with the Bears? If you draft Nelson, someone has to go. One of Massie or Sitton would be my guess.
Is this really true? I have yet to read aboot Nelson playing anywhere other than guard in the NFL.
Most scouts are saying he can play anywhere. Maybe not LT, but certainly both G positions, C and RT.
Image
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

mmmc_35 wrote:WTF. Grasu has been bad and hurt. Sitton was a pro bowler in a WCO. Morgan played like 10 Reps in preseason. Y'all want to cut a high level starter with no replacement. I am all for drafting OLine. Signing oline. But those two really? How about we keep the pro bowler for a minute.
I just want young players getting reps next to each other ASAP... Whomever is our future, get them in there now. Sitton has no future here, IMO so I'd rather let Hiestand do his job and coach up some young, raw talent.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

With the roster as it stands. Do you want a 300 lbs monster blowing up your guard or center getting your new QB either broken or rattled?

The best thing for Trubisky is great offensive line play. Getting rid of a great player for cap space? We have space, but not enough talent. Freeing up more space without replacing the talent is insanity.

They should draft linemen. The market doesn't have a replacement. You can't feel comfortable with the reserves on this team protecting the most valuable asset.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/josh-sitton/4449
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Adipost wrote:
wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:Part of the reason Heistand was hired was to develop talent on the OL. Just like he developed Nelson and McGlinchey into top 15 picks. I'm with G08...Heistand is here to coach 3rd-6th round guys into starting level players.

I'm a ND homer, so I'd have ZERO problems with either of those guys on the Bears...but I don't think the have to be drafted just because the Bears hired their position coach.
If Nelson were a GOOD OG and I was taking this position, I might relent. But he really is a cornerstone for an OL for 10 years. If you think Trubisky is your QB of the future, then you need to build an OL around him. A franchise QB is useless if he doesn't have time to throw the football. I can see Heistand coaching up Morgan, Whitehair and Grasu. But it would be a HUGE help if you had a potential All-Pro OG, that was coached by Heistand, to help translate the techniques.
So do you cut Sitton for Nelson? Do you cut Massie and move Long to RT and play Nelson at RG in Long's place? Do you cut Massie and try Nelson at RT? Do you move Leno inside somewhere and let Nelson play LT?

Even though I think pass rusher is the biggest need right now, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. One of the biggest draws of drafting Nelson is that he can play anywhere. It's just...where does he play with the Bears? If you draft Nelson, someone has to go. One of Massie or Sitton would be my guess.
Is this really true? I have yet to read aboot Nelson playing anywhere other than guard in the NFL.
He played all along the OL at ND. That doesn't necessarily translate to the ability to that in the NFL, but for someone who did it in college and is being called a "generational talent" you'd think he has the ability.

Having watched every game he played in, I can say he has the feet and technique to play LT and the power to play RT. He's probably not quite his listed height though, and I admittedly don't know his arm length...both of which could potentially hinder him on the outside.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

My thoughts on Edmunds from many moons ago.
Post Reply