EDGE Prospect Talk: Tremaine Edmunds

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While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.
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mmmc_35 wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.
For a kid who isn't asked to play on as an edge rusher your expectation of him is unrealistic. We are going to overly break down a 3 second clip. He gets up field. Gets the tackles shoulders turned. Edmunds has his arm inside.

The pass is from shotgun and thrown on the 3rd step. Right as Edmunds needs to turn the corner the ball is out. So we don't see him do it.

Hand usage shouldn't be refined because he plays ILB.

Flexibility is seen all over the field. This clip is to short to determine anything. However if the kid can cover the slot I bet he has the hips to turn the corner and lean in to a tackle.

Now I get your point. Edmunds clip doesn't look like Von Miller below. Miller fires out of his stance, bats the hands out of the way. Dips into contact. Gets his arm the outside and truly bends the corner. I think Edmunds has those types of traits but not the technique.

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Selfishly, this is why I'm pissed he didn't run a 3-cone at the Combine or on his Pro Day. Those numbers add a lot of clarity to questions that I have about him.

Nobody knows what this kid is going to be as a pure EDGE rusher, it's all about projection. I see prototypical size and arm length, elite athleticism, and versatility when I turn on his "tape". If I'm Pace I bring him in on a private visit, have Fangio and his defensive staff coach him up and go from there. If they pound the table for the kid, it's a no brainer. If they don't like him for what they want to do in this defense, move on.

Not a lot of 6'4" 253 lbs dudes that move like he does (Planet Theory), I take that at 8 if Nelson/Fitzpatrick are not there.
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UOK wrote:While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.
The kicker is that some fans are bagging on him not having "tape" available of him as an EDGE rusher. You can't provide that if he didn't do it that often! Projection. That's the word of the day:

pro·jec·tion
prəˈjekSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
"plans based on projections of slow but positive growth"
synonyms: forecast, prediction, prognosis, outlook, expectation, estimate
"a sales projection"


I hated Leonard Floyd because I thought he was too thin and weak at the point of attack. One full NFL off-season later and I realized that John Fox was right when he said you can always make them bigger and stronger, but you can't make them faster/quicker. This kid just needs technique work and reps, IMO.
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G08 wrote:
UOK wrote:While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.
The kicker is that some fans are bagging on him not having "tape" available of him as an EDGE rusher. You can't provide that if he didn't do it that often! Projection. That's the word of the day:

pro·jec·tion
prəˈjekSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
"plans based on projections of slow but positive growth"
synonyms: forecast, prediction, prognosis, outlook, expectation, estimate
"a sales projection"


I hated Leonard Floyd because I thought he was too thin and weak at the point of attack. One full NFL off-season later and I realized that John Fox was right when he said you can always make them bigger and stronger, but you can't make them faster/quicker. This kid just needs technique work and reps, IMO.
I get your point, but indirectly quoting John Fox borders on BFO treason. Tread lightly! :)
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Here's a scouting report on someone that I believe is a solid comp to Tremaine Edmunds... any guesses?
STRENGTHS
Exceptional take-off speed, acceleration and closing burst. Makes plays effortlessly in back-side lateral pursuit. Outstanding recovery quickness to make plays (when he is out of position). Explosive striker. Can produce "wow" plays when he triggers quickly or releases cleanly and has developed a reputation for knocking quarterbacks out of games

WEAKNESSES
Developing instincts -- late to locate the ball and too easily fooled by play-action and misdirection. Motor runs hot and cold -- does not always apply himself. Can be locked down too easily when engaged -- unrefined hand use. Lacks variety of pass-rush moves and relies too much on natural speed. Average eyes, anticipation and awareness in coverage — marginal feel. Average base strength -- moved off the ball too easily by tight ends (plays tall). Needs more time in the weight room -- 15 bench-press reps were tied for the fewest among linebackers at the combine.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 (top 10)

BOTTOM LINE
A highly disruptive, athletic specimen with the pass-rush potential to effortlessly emerge as a double-digit sack producer. Is far from a finished product and his best football is still ahead of him, yet he plays the game with more of an offensive temperament and could require some patience. Is the type of rare athlete that could even contribute as an offensive playmaker once he learns to grasp defensive concepts and the game slows down for him.
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G08 wrote:Here's a scouting report on someone that I believe is a solid comp to Tremaine Edmunds... any guesses?
STRENGTHS
Exceptional take-off speed, acceleration and closing burst. Makes plays effortlessly in back-side lateral pursuit. Outstanding recovery quickness to make plays (when he is out of position). Explosive striker. Can produce "wow" plays when he triggers quickly or releases cleanly and has developed a reputation for knocking quarterbacks out of games

WEAKNESSES
Developing instincts -- late to locate the ball and too easily fooled by play-action and misdirection. Motor runs hot and cold -- does not always apply himself. Can be locked down too easily when engaged -- unrefined hand use. Lacks variety of pass-rush moves and relies too much on natural speed. Average eyes, anticipation and awareness in coverage — marginal feel. Average base strength -- moved off the ball too easily by tight ends (plays tall). Needs more time in the weight room -- 15 bench-press reps were tied for the fewest among linebackers at the combine.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 (top 10)

BOTTOM LINE
A highly disruptive, athletic specimen with the pass-rush potential to effortlessly emerge as a double-digit sack producer. Is far from a finished product and his best football is still ahead of him, yet he plays the game with more of an offensive temperament and could require some patience. Is the type of rare athlete that could even contribute as an offensive playmaker once he learns to grasp defensive concepts and the game slows down for him.
Well he's been compared to Urlacher and Barr. I can't imagine that is an Urlacher scouting report.
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^ nice work!
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Hematite
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The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!
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Hematite wrote:The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!
That's what I'm saying; look at what he did for Christian freaking Jones (not exactly the brightest bulb in the room).

Bring the kid in for a visit, let Fangio and his staff meet with him, and if he says he wants this kid you go get him.
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Another comp if you're looking at size, length, youth, and versatility:
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Here's a clip of him coming off the edge. OC thought he could get a pulling guard to pick him up in time -- nope.

[video][/video]
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Hematite wrote:The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!
Except Barr actually showed that he could rush the passer off the edge in College. There is not 1 play in in Edmunds 2017 tape that shows a flash of him potentially becoming an edge rusher.
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Adipost wrote:
Hematite wrote:The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!
Except Barr actually showed that he could rush the passer off the edge in College. There is not 1 play in in Edmunds 2017 tape that shows a flash of him potentially becoming an edge rusher.
I agree whole heartedly with your statement. But if Fangio says its all good...I'll ride with him!!
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G08 wrote:
UOK wrote:While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.
The kicker is that some fans are bagging on him not having "tape" available of him as an EDGE rusher. You can't provide that if he didn't do it that often! Projection. That's the word of the day:

pro·jec·tion
prəˈjekSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
"plans based on projections of slow but positive growth"
synonyms: forecast, prediction, prognosis, outlook, expectation, estimate
"a sales projection"


I hated Leonard Floyd because I thought he was too thin and weak at the point of attack. One full NFL off-season later and I realized that John Fox was right when he said you can always make them bigger and stronger, but you can't make them faster/quicker. This kid just needs technique work and reps, IMO.
Please provide me some examples of really good NFL edge rushers who in college never showed any glimpse that they could beat an OT.

I can find several plays where Floyd beat OT’s at Georgia.
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mmmc_35 wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.
For a kid who isn't asked to play on as an edge rusher your expectation of him is unrealistic. We are going to overly break down a 3 second clip. He gets up field. Gets the tackles shoulders turned. Edmunds has his arm inside.

The pass is from shotgun and thrown on the 3rd step. Right as Edmunds needs to turn the corner the ball is out. So we don't see him do it.

Hand usage shouldn't be refined because he plays ILB.

Flexibility is seen all over the field. This clip is to short to determine anything. However if the kid can cover the slot I bet he has the hips to turn the corner and lean in to a tackle.

Now I get your point. Edmunds clip doesn't look like Von Miller below. Miller fires out of his stance, bats the hands out of the way. Dips into contact. Gets his arm the outside and truly bends the corner. I think Edmunds has those types of traits but not the technique.

Image

I hear ya..Again, I just want to say again, I don't hate him as a MLB prospect, I just don't think he has a shot to be an edge rusher. I love the clip of him blitzing up the middle though..like he was shot out of a cannon.

He reminds me so much of Urlacher, but Urlacher was a football genius. If this kids got the head, take him, as a MLB.
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I’ve moved on from Edwards. Mostly because I’m putting all my eggs in the Nelson basket. I have another edge prospect that I’ve fallen in love with. He’s not as highly touted, but he’s really good and fits Pace’s athletic profile.

I’ll talk more about him in the podcast.

*I intentionally didn’t mock him to the Bears in my most recent draft as to not spoil the surprise.

I’ll t
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wab wrote:I’ve moved on from Edwards. Mostly because I’m putting all my eggs in the Nelson basket. I have another edge prospect that I’ve fallen in love with. He’s not as highly touted, but he’s really good and fits Pace’s athletic profile.

I’ll talk more about him in the podcast.

*I intentionally didn’t mock him to the Bears in my most recent draft as to not spoil the surprise.

I’ll t
^^^Quality teaser right here^^^ :clap:
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wab wrote:I’ve moved on from Edwards. Mostly because I’m putting all my eggs in the Nelson basket. I have another edge prospect that I’ve fallen in love with. He’s not as highly touted, but he’s really good and fits Pace’s athletic profile.

I’ll talk more about him in the podcast.

*I intentionally didn’t mock him to the Bears in my most recent draft as to not spoil the surprise.

I’ll t

Love the teaser! Lol
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mmmc_35 wrote:My bet is...

https://youtu.be/TFKwy07SI_w

Love Josh Sweat..can play DE and OLB for us!
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mmmc_35 wrote:My bet is...

https://youtu.be/TFKwy07SI_w
Beat me to it :lol:
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mmmc_35 wrote:My bet is...

https://youtu.be/TFKwy07SI_w
Nope :)
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Great minds.

Unfortunately that knee is a big worry. I ranked him a tad lower then I would have because of the injury. He obviously played with the brace. Hopefully he is medically done and the brace is just a precaution, but his legs are thin like a guy who doesn't squat because of bad knees.
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wab wrote:I’ve moved on from Edmunds (edit- goddamn autocorrect). Mostly because I’m putting all my eggs in the Nelson basket. I have another edge prospect that I’ve fallen in love with. He’s not as highly touted, but he’s really good and fits Pace’s athletic profile.

I’ll talk more about him in the podcast.

*I intentionally didn’t mock him to the Bears in my most recent draft as to not spoil the surprise.
Keep in mind, this is assuming they take Nelson at 8. If Nelson is gone, I’m still for Edmunds.
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wab wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:My bet is...

https://youtu.be/TFKwy07SI_w
Nope :)

[video][/video]
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
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He has mentioned Carter before.
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It’s not someone I’ve mentioned here before. The suspense builds!
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wab wrote:It’s not someone I’ve mentioned here before. The suspense builds!
Nothing like a good mystery bromance!
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
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All the more reason for a pass rusher, boys:
Fangio needs a pass rush for his philosophy to work.

Anyone else think that it's odd that the secondary has sucked every year except last year? Why was it that all of sudden Fuller, Prince AND Amos....all had career years???

Pass rush percentages (not counting coverages)

2015, 24.7%
2016, 26.7%
2017, 31.4% (This is more than just a coincidence)

The pass rush is a MUST and right now we don't have many of them.
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G08 wrote:All the more reason for a pass rusher, boys:
Fangio needs a pass rush for his philosophy to work.

Anyone else think that it's odd that the secondary has sucked every year except last year? Why was it that all of sudden Fuller, Prince AND Amos....all had career years???

Pass rush percentages (not counting coverages)

2015, 24.7%
2016, 26.7%
2017, 31.4% (This is more than just a coincidence)

The pass rush is a MUST and right now we don't have many of them.
That's all well and good, except there aren't that many pass rushers in this draft to get excited about, and all of them not named Chubb need work.
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