Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Line?

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The fact of the matter is, the poor play by the back-up QB cost us the game. He was horrible. It's why he's had four starts in his career. He's not good. He was late delivering the ball, the game was too fast for him, and he held the ball too long. Not to mention, he couldn't seem to hold on to it. Fumbles, fumbled snaps, etc. He's bad. Like really bad. That's why we lost. Not the time out, not the defense. It was the play of the QB.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:The fact of the matter is, the poor play by the back-up QB cost us the game. He was horrible. It's why he's had four starts in his career. He's not good. He was late delivering the ball, the game was too fast for him, and he held the ball too long. Not to mention, he couldn't seem to hold on to it. Fumbles, fumbled snaps, etc. He's bad. Like really bad. That's why we lost. Not the time out, not the defense. It was the play of the QB.
Chase is the #1 reason no doubt; unless you consider that Nagy decided to give Mitch an extra week of rest(I say that b/c last week they said Mitch could have played on Sunday but wasn't playing Det b/c of the short week). If you add that w/the bad time out then Nagy enters the conversation.

Still top 10 reasons for the Loss

10) Def couldn't stop a worn out past his prime qb
9) Rookie RB w/no pass support ran for a buck twentyfive on them
8) Odell threw as many TD's as the Bears QB
7) Chase threw as many TD's to the other team as he did to the Bears
6) Whitehair snaps were all over the place
5) Chase Daniels baby hands couldn't handle wet balls
4) Nagy stoppred running Howard; and this time Howard earned more touches in the 2nd 1/2
3) Nagy's timeout gave NY life
2) Chase is a garden gnome in the pocket
1) Chase's knowledge in the system doesn't change that he's weak armed and immobile, and slow in his progressiosn/throws
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wab
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The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
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It's not the reason they won either....

I didn't get to see the game so I don't know how the time out effected it.
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G08
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wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
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Allowing a wide receiver to complete a 49-yard touchdown pass probably gave them some momentum too.
Whatever. We should have lost by 7 in regulation anyway.
On to the Rams!
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G08 wrote:
wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
Yeah I heard the interview too. That still doesnt add up to the timeout... on what, 3rd down 22,23 yards to go?

The ONLY problem with that timeout is that it didn't come soon enough.
I believe the clock wound all the way down to like 17 seconds (from 50 sec).

3rd & 23 means you're getting the ball back, and just about every time.

Is everyone seriously so starving for a personal win, to bask in the glory of finally being right, that you're constantly willing to abandon all common sense & latch on to every click bait inducing 'hot take", pretend like it's your genius original thought & regurgitate it (with wreck less abandon)?

Not even pausing to think it out..

Also...

momentum?

We're struggling so hard to find fault we're now trying to quantify momentum as a stat?

Have we all gotten so used to bitching about our team losing that we can't even be happy with anything this team does?

It almost feels like there's more handwringing & bitching about this team now that they're, you know, actually good~ then when we were constantly scraping to reach 6 wins.
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Pagan wrote:
G08 wrote:
wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
Yeah I heard the interview too. That still doesnt add up to the timeout... on what, 3rd down 22,23 yards to go?

The ONLY problem with that timeout is that it didn't come soon enough.
I believe the clock wound all the way down to like 17 seconds (from 50 sec).

3rd & 23 means you're getting the ball back, and just about every time.

Is everyone seriously so starving for a personal win, to bask in the glory of finally being right, that you're constantly willing to abandon all common sense & latch on to every click bait inducing 'hot take", pretend like it's your genius original thought & regurgitate it (with wreck less abandon)?

Not even pausing to think it out..

Also...

momentum?

We're struggling so hard to find fault we're now trying to quantify momentum as a stat?

Have we all gotten so used to bitching about our team losing that we can't even be happy with anything this team does?

It almost feels like there's more handwringing & bitching about this team now that they're, you know, actually good~ then when we were constantly scraping to reach 6 wins.
Well said.
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Thanx Mo
It's only well said because for some odd reason I've had to repeat it so damn much. :frustrated:
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Momentum in football is a myth, change my mind.
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G08 wrote:
wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.

the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?

as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
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G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.


FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.



the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?

as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.
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mohner1 wrote:
G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?

Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.

The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.


FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.



the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?

as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.
And that is actually One stop on two tries. Remember, they had to convert, and get out of bounds on 4th down in order to line up and kick the longest field goal in Giants history.
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Bringing this topic back on track...
What are your guys opinions on moving Kush bac in there... or even Calling Coward (big assed mauler) up from the PS?
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Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
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Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.
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I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
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G08 wrote:
Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.
Agreed. Barring injury, Coward isn't seeing the field this year. They keep him on the 53, because he showed enough on tape to warrant being poached. But he's not ready for prime time yet.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
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Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
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Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
I don’t have PFF, nor do I put that much value in their grades.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.


I'm pretty sure they weren't designed counter plays ... I think it was Howard simply choosing to cut back

if they were designed counters, they were not blocked properly
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Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
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Yeah.. I'm not going to totally hang the dude out to dry on 1 bad game either.
He MUST either be an upgrade over Kush, either production or in health.

I don't remember anyone talking about it here, but I head (Nagy I believe) is say something about Kush dealing with a recurring neck injury~> which has got to mean bad neck disc's.

Wouldn't be surprised to hear Kush either getting offseason kneck surgery or being released after the season.

As for any talk about the potential Witzman/Donald nightmare... I we should all keep in mind that most of Donald's biggest inside sacks/pressures are coming from the LEFT side of tge Oline.

So... Daniels/Donald is the buried lead story here.
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Boris13c wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
No kidding. Chase knows he's going to get smashed and puts it out there about as good as can be there. And a downright incredible catch.

I think that our offense spreads stuff around so much clouds how good ARob is right now. He is really REALLY good. We could target him 15x/per game and be effective.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
He's really bad, Whiskey. If I'm LA I put Donald over him all night and just beat his ass.
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