In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

The latest Bears news and talk

Moderators: wab, RING4CHI, Pagan

User avatar
BuddyRyans46
Practice Squad
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:16 pm

In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:22 pm

....it might cause the defense to take a slight step back, which will put more of the ONUS on both Nagy and Trubisky to get this offense moving. Without a really good defense to hide behind, and to mask offensive deficiencies (by constantly generating TO's, or flipping field position or scoring points itself), the offense is really going to have to actually STEP UP, which will tell us exactly what we have with both Nagy and Trubisky.

Next year will be Nagy's 2nd year as a HC and Trubisky's 3rd year in the NFL and his "all-important" 2nd year in "THE SYSTEM", so the incessant train of excuses should cease next season. If the Defense takes a slight step back (due to injuries or the new DC,etc.) it will be sink or swim for both Nagy and Trubisky. I guess I am alone, but I got increasingly tired of the constant litany of excuses made for both of them and this offense as it continued to struggle, as it continued to be frustratingly inconsistent,and as it continued to completely disappear for long stretches of time in games, etc. all season long. With Fangio removed from the equation, all of us will see just how large the role he played in this year's success really was, which will give us a better idea of just how much credit Nagy deserved for the 12 wins this year and just what type of coach Nagy really is. More to the point, we will find out if he really is the offensive mastermind/genius so many of you apparently think he is. For me personally, this offense is going to have to become a hell of a lot more consistent and a hell of a lot more potent and exciting before, to paraphrase Denny Green, I crown his ass.

With all due respect, after one 12 win season (that was largely made possible by our recently departed DC and a very good defense) and a one and done playoff exit, it seems like way too many Bears fans are ready to build a statue of Nagy outside of Soldier Field. I seem to remember Dick Jauron turning around a bad team and having a really good season once too, lol.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 19687
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:27 pm

Jesus dude.
User avatar
BuddyRyans46
Practice Squad
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:16 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:47 pm

wab wrote:Jesus dude.
Nah, he ain't got nothing to do with it, although according to some of you, he and Nagy are one and the same. You are one of the first people I am going to think of IF Nagy is exposed as not being the coaching genius and offensive mastermind that you are apparently convinced that he is. Since you like facts so much, here are a few for you to chew on:

Bears offense averaged 343.9 yards per game this year...ranking it 21st in the league.
Bears passing offense averaged 222.8 yards per game this year...ranking it..yep u guessed it 21st in the league.
Per football outsiders offensive efficiency rankings, Bears offense ranked 20th in the league this year.

^^^Now why don't you spin all 3 of those pretty craptastic, underwhelming facts for me into "omg Nagy is DEF an offensive genius and play-calling mastermind!" that so many of you are pushing so hard? Look at those stats, and how downright inconsistent and shitty our offense was for long stretches of times during games throughout the year, and then tell me how I am crazy to even have the temerity to call into question Nagy's coaching "genius" especially since he was brought her for his supposed offensive bona fides.

Look at those stats and then look at the defense's stats, and then tell me how I am "crazy" for suggesting that this team was dragged to those 12 wins by: a- a very good defense and its DC b- a really shitty division moreso than by Nagy's offensive acumen. Give me a break.

and Before ANY of you hit me with the tired, lame, lazy "Durr but the offense averaged 26.3 points this year and that ranked 9th durrrrr", anyone with at least half a brain realizes that that number is inflated by defensive scores, and by the short field and turnovers which this defense constantly generated this year to help drag its handicapped offense along to 12 wins. The stats which I cited are a much more reliable AND accurate assessment of just how well this offense was able to move the ball on its own this year, and all of those stats suggest that this offense sucked this year. It was a bottom 11-12 offense in the league. Bill Barnwell is pretty insightful and he himself flat-out stated that the Bears offense was not even average this year..it was BAD and below average but that fact was partially masked by just how good the defense was, AND the numbers back him up on that.

But you know what, go on believing that Nagy is the next Bill Walsh or Don Coryell. I will wait until he can you know actually generate an offense that ranks in the Top 10 in all those categories I just cited before I crown his ass. Now he doesn't have Fangio to help mask his offense's shortcomings anymore. We'll see just how good of a coach and of an offensive mastermind he is next year. Funny how Sean McVay, who is even younger than Nagy, succeeded in building a pretty impressive offense with a supposed bust at QB in his very first year in LA without much trouble. I guess Nagy just needs more learning on the job, right?

I was unfair though in saying that this offense was so "inconsistent" this year. When I look at those numbers which I just cited, it is painfully obvious that this offense was actually CONSISTENT this year...consistently mediocre to bad.

...but but but..the Bucs game right?!! lol yeah continue to hang your hat on that absurd single outlier of a game against the worst secondary in the entire league, lol. Amazing how that one game really skewered Trubisky's season stats, but hey, that is an inconvenient truth, right? Bears fans would rather delude themselves into believing that that was the REAL TRUBISKY, right? lol. Keep telling yourselves that. Hopefully we play the Bucs 16 times next year, and Trubisky will be right there on equal footing with Mahomes, lol and Nagy will be on equal footing with Reid and McVay, lol.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Location: Sweet Home Chicago
Posts: 14903
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:48 pm

In no way is this a good thing. None.
Image

See it -- Trust it -- Rip it

"I don't care about numbers, I care about letters" -- Matt Nagy
User avatar
Otis Day
Hall of Famer
Location: Armpit of IL.
Posts: 5192
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:43 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:03 pm

Look at those stats and then look at the defense's stats, and then tell me how I am "crazy" for suggesting that this team was dragged to those 12 wins by: a- a very good defense and its DC b- a really shitty division moreso than by Nagy's offensive acumen. Give me a break.
Dude you were bitchin about the D, I believe you called the "overrated" in another thread. Talking out both sides of your ass. Get your stories straight dude. Acting like a fucking troll.
User avatar
WagonForce
Assistant Coach
Posts: 690
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:57 am

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:14 pm

I'm 50/50 that OP is not being sincere, but nonetheless, here are my thoughts.

I can't think of anyone on this board that has claimed Nagy is an offensive mastermind. If anything, I've seen more concern that his tendency to get 'cute' held the team back at times. There definitely was excitement to get a modern if not outright innovative offense installed especially following Fox and Loggain's approach to that side of the ball, but I don't see how that excitement implies a consensus that Nagy is necessarily brilliant beyond compare.

Speaking for myself, I saw a head coach with a young quarterback, a lot of new pieces of offense, who had some absolutely great moments and also had his fair share of miscues. I think the arrow is pointing up for Nagy and the offense, but time will tell us what the Bears have with this coach.

Fangio's defense led the league in a wide range of statistical categories this year. Even if everything was kept constant it would have been difficult to deliver a comparable performance next season. With Fangio departing, as well as the Bears losing what looks like at least one other coach on the defensive side of the ball, my guess is the Bears defense declines next year. I certainly hope that the Bears maintain or even improve the defensive results the team achieved in the 2018 season, but it's going to be a challenge for whomever takes over for Fangio at DC.

Your point that the Bears success on defense alleviated scrutiny that Nagy and the offense would have faced is fair to some extent. Winning can hide a lot of deficiencies, and the defense certainly carried the team to wins in games that weren't pretty for the offense or special teams. However, I'm not going to look forward to the hypothetical scenario where the defense declines and that plays a part in 'exposing' Nagy for being a poor coach. That actually sounds like a disaster to me as a fan. I understand as fans of the Bears we're used to suffering and expecting the worst, but this kind of thinking is too much for me.

The team won 12 games this year, and while getting bounced from the playoffs at home on wildcard weekend the way they did was a tough pill to swallow, I can't get behind the pessimism you're showing here. If anything, I think there's more reasons to be optimistic about the Bears than we've seen going back for a long, long time.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 19687
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:22 pm

Half of your posts have been lame Hot Takes trying to get a rise out of everyone. You certainly aren't trying to generate thoughtful and intelligent football conversation.
User avatar
VA_Mountain_Bear
Assistant Coach
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:19 am

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:40 pm

BuddyRyans46 wrote:....it might cause the defense to take a slight step back, which will put more of the ONUS on both Nagy and Trubisky to get this offense moving. Without a really good defense to hide behind, and to mask offensive deficiencies (by constantly generating TO's, or flipping field position or scoring points itself), the offense is really going to have to actually STEP UP, which will tell us exactly what we have with both Nagy and Trubisky.

Next year will be Nagy's 2nd year as a HC and Trubisky's 3rd year in the NFL and his "all-important" 2nd year in "THE SYSTEM", so the incessant train of excuses should cease next season. If the Defense takes a slight step back (due to injuries or the new DC,etc.) it will be sink or swim for both Nagy and Trubisky. I guess I am alone, but I got increasingly tired of the constant litany of excuses made for both of them and this offense as it continued to struggle, as it continued to be frustratingly inconsistent,and as it continued to completely disappear for long stretches of time in games, etc. all season long. With Fangio removed from the equation, all of us will see just how large the role he played in this year's success really was, which will give us a better idea of just how much credit Nagy deserved for the 12 wins this year and just what type of coach Nagy really is. More to the point, we will find out if he really is the offensive mastermind/genius so many of you apparently think he is. For me personally, this offense is going to have to become a hell of a lot more consistent and a hell of a lot more potent and exciting before, to paraphrase Denny Green, I crown his ass.

With all due respect, after one 12 win season (that was largely made possible by our recently departed DC and a very good defense) and a one and done playoff exit, it seems like way too many Bears fans are ready to build a statue of Nagy outside of Soldier Field. I seem to remember Dick Jauron turning around a bad team and having a really good season once too, lol.
I find your propositions slightly incoherent.

1. If the best part of the team was Vic, then losing Vic is good because it creates "onus"...because onus was not there before? Or onus has a magical quality that improves performance? I.E. if you remove the best part from from the engine you'll discover the quality of the other parts??? Was Vic himself on the field? We still have those same players, I doubt they all fall to shit because a coach left.

2. Excuses. Were you expecting a better offense in year 1 of a new coach, system, and skill players than the one we got? Personally it exceeded my expectations. Were you expecting mistake free 16 games from Bisky? Or a new HC? I mean we had a good season, our offense was good at moving the ball, TOP, and scoring over the season. Wasn't a part of your experience this season watching and just having fun and feeling happy that the offense looked capable for the first time in a long time, and excited it has room to grow instead of being at it's peak?
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 19687
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:52 pm

In summary:

1 - John Fox was the man to lead the Bears to a long awaited championship because he weren't no dadgum nancypants high flyin' offensive sissy. (Never mind the fact that it was, quite literally, historically bad under Fox.)

2 - The Bears defense is overrated, but it "this team was dragged to those 12 wins by a very good defense and its DC".

3 - The offense sucks because, see #1.
User avatar
Mikefive
Head Coach
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:00 pm

So you have...
- A first time head coach, who only called plays for games, not years
- Who comes to a team that had a weak offense the year before
- A QB who entered the season with 25 starts since high school
- A completely new offense that a veteran QB said it took him 3 years to master
- A receiving corps that was completely turned over with 2 key pieces that were never starters before

...and you expected a consistent, powerhouse offense in year 1?

Please. :roll:
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
bearsfaninaz
Head Coach
Posts: 2235
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:33 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:23 pm

Mikefive wrote:So you have...
- A first time head coach, who only called plays for games, not years
- Who comes to a team that had a weak offense the year before
- A QB who entered the season with 25 starts since high school
- A completely new offense that a veteran QB said it took him 3 years to master
- A receiving corps that was completely turned over with 2 key pieces that were never starters before

...and you expected a consistent, powerhouse offense in year 1?

Please. :roll:
+1
User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Contact:
Location: The Bear Nebula
Posts: 14652
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:54 am

Otis Day wrote:
Look at those stats and then look at the defense's stats, and then tell me how I am "crazy" for suggesting that this team was dragged to those 12 wins by: a- a very good defense and its DC b- a really shitty division moreso than by Nagy's offensive acumen. Give me a break.
Dude you were bitchin about the D, I believe you called the "overrated" in another thread. Talking out both sides of your ass. Get your stories straight dude. Acting like a fucking troll.


I second that

he's 2 for 2 with bullshit threads, which screams troll

but to answer his initial point, no, losing Fangio is not a good thing in any way
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin

Image
BLOG : Emissions from the Bears Nebula
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 2159
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:18 am

Boris13c wrote:
Otis Day wrote:
Look at those stats and then look at the defense's stats, and then tell me how I am "crazy" for suggesting that this team was dragged to those 12 wins by: a- a very good defense and its DC b- a really shitty division moreso than by Nagy's offensive acumen. Give me a break.
Dude you were bitchin about the D, I believe you called the "overrated" in another thread. Talking out both sides of your ass. Get your stories straight dude. Acting like a fucking troll.


I second that

he's 2 for 2 with bullshit threads, which screams troll

but to answer his initial point, no, losing Fangio is not a good thing in any way
Agree with the troll thought 100%
BR0D1E86
MVP
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:50 am

In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:22 pm

Do you think Fangio leaving is going to make the offensive staff work harder or something? Were they all just going to spend the off-season golfing and napping because Vic was around? This is nonsense.
User avatar
Bad Flanders
MVP
Posts: 1861
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:35 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:11 pm

Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears. Ditka, sausage, Da Bears.
User avatar
jasfirstroundbust
Journeyman
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:21 pm

Re: In a perverse way, Fangio leaving is a good thing

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:19 pm

What a dick.
Some men are Catholics , some are Methodists, I'm a Bears fan...

Return to “Halas Hall”