Mitch Trubisky & General Quarterback Banter

EricTighe · Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:16 pm

This is all kinda Mute.
1. We do not have the money to go and sign the top FA QB's available.
2. Every guy mentioned above was ridiculed as bad or worse than Trubisky by there own fans. Trust me I Live in SoCal and you should hear the crap about Carr.
3. We have no other choice but to hope and pray that last years issues with Trubisky had mostly to do with his shoulder,

We have no chance but to hope for the best from Trubisky.
There are good points about him.
He puts in the work.
He is a great teammate.
He is actually a very good leader.
He is very athletic.
He has a cannon for an arm.

Let us hope the game slows down for him. If it does we are back in the thick of the chase again.

IE · Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:41 pm

From one Eric to another... I'm glad you're not the GM. Long shot hope is not a strategy.

The Bears should be able to sign someone like Keenam relatively inexpensively to back up 10 and who can at least play at an average NFL level if 10 can't again. Every single person being mentioned could throw 3 TDs against the Lions twice, and put up more than 10 yards of offense in a half. The replacement level bar is very low.

In addition to getting a FA, the Bears need to pick a QB in the draft and commence with building that QB depth chart.

If we're going to hope and pray for anything, it would be a much better prayer "bet" to hope that the Oline reverts to 2018 form, that Burton stays healthy and maybe a guy like Holtz or Horsted steps up to be a 30+ catch guy (which seems far more likely to me than a light coming on for 10).

10 is every one of the things you mentioned. But none of those things equate to winning if he can't play like an average NFL QB. They really don't. Who doesn't like the kid? But this isn't Rudy.

southdakbearfan · Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:25 pm

At how many pages does this thing become a manifesto?

Oh, and for anyone buying into Keenum, go look at his first 4 seasons of utter TRASH play. Then tell me that Trubisky can't develop.

dplank · Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:39 am

southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:25 pm At how many pages does this thing become a manifesto?

Oh, and for anyone buying into Keenum, go look at his first 4 seasons of utter TRASH play. Then tell me that Trubisky can't develop.

Many different threads keep getting merged into this one, so it's a little misleading. To think there isn't going to be a ton of talk about the QB situation this offseason is not realistic, but the two distinct camps are definitely entrenched.

Regarding Keenum, sure, but how'd it work out for the team that drafted him (signed him as a UDFA)? Not well. Not well at all. So ifMitch develops like Keenum did, then that's a draft pick that a) held your team back for a few years with shit play, and then b) benefitted another team down the road after you spent time developing the guy for them. Not a recipe for success right there.

We need good QB play NOW, not a few years from now. Can't wrap my head around why that's a difficult concept. Bringing in a good backup, like a keenum or Dalton, hedges your bet that Mitch's light never comes on without having to throw another season away like last year. I've yet to hear a single counter argument to this path, the only counters are at the extremes: cut Mitch on one end of the extremes, hand him the job uncontested at the other end of the extremes. I prefer the middle road, bring in someone with actual NFL success at some point under their belt to compete, let the best man win.

Drone7 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:37 am

Keenum has been a backup for most of his career; he knows he's a journeyman, so if they sign him, while a slight upgrade, he'll be a good soldier and hold the clipboard without complaining. I suspect that's what they want.

Dalton was a starter from a rookie until he was temporarily benched last season; he probably still envisions himself as a starter and it might be hard for him to buy into being assigned the #2 spot behind a QB with Trubisky's spotty record.

(For me) It would be refreshing to see an actual camp battle. Not expecting it.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:43 am

dplank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:39 am
southdakbearfan wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:25 pm At how many pages does this thing become a manifesto?
Many different threads keep getting merged into this one, so it's a little misleading. To think there isn't going to be a ton of talk about the QB situation this offseason is not realistic, but the two distinct camps are definitely entrenched.

I personally find zero profit to there being several dozen active Trubisky threads when they're all essentially debating the same few things.

The used to be a Cutler Circlejerk thread as well, so this isn't a new thing around here.

G08 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:05 am

UOK wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:43 am
dplank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:39 am

Many different threads keep getting merged into this one, so it's a little misleading. To think there isn't going to be a ton of talk about the QB situation this offseason is not realistic, but the two distinct camps are definitely entrenched.
I personally find zero profit to there being several dozen active Trubisky threads when they're all essentially debating the same few things.

The used to be a Cutler Circlejerk thread as well, so this isn't a new thing around here.

@dplank the moral of the story here is @UOK loves some masturbatory geometric shapes.

dplank · Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:26 am

lol...yea i wasn't complaining about it, just pointing it out as part of why the thread is so long.

IE · Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:55 am

It is so long because of the intensity of Bear fan understanding of how important the QB position is, and how desperately everyone wants to see the 50 + years of mediocrity (being kind) at the position finally end.

If you distill it down, everyone really has the same "want". All the disagreement is really just fear from some folks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, versus others doubting there is a baby in there at all. Whether there is or isn't, I'm pretty sure our legacy is going to be at lower risk if we have more kids.

dplank · Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:29 pm

I'd like to see us get it to 100 pages by opening day.

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:15 pm

Kurt Warner suggests patience is required with Mitch Trubisky

By Bryan Perez February 18, 2020 11:36 AM

Playing quarterback at a high level in the NFL is one of the most difficult things to do in all of sports. It requires so many elements, ranging from a quarterback's own talent level to the supporting cast and coaching staff around him. But one of the most critical variables in great quarterback play is consistency, which is something Mitch Trubisky has struggled with through three seasons as the starter for the Chicago Bears.

Hall of Fame quarterback Kurt Warner chatted with Fox 32's Lou Canellis and said Trubisky's good moments have been tarnished by his bad ones.

“All you see with Mitch is a lack of consistency,” Warner said. “You see big moments, you see big throws, you see big plays where you go, man, bottle that up and we’re going to be just fine.”

The 2018 Trubisky is a better example of the big moments when he led the Bears on an unexpected 12-4 playoff run that included the team's first NFC North title in eight seasons. He regressed to a player with more bad than good in 2019 and has pundits expecting GM Ryan Pace to add legitimate competition for the starting job this offseason.

But Warner cautioned against giving up on Trubisky too soon, saying there's no timeline for quarterback development in the NFL.

“I didn’t become the quarterback I was until 28 years old,” Warner said. “I had to play a lot of football, and it wasn’t in the NFL. But I played a lot of football in that time to learn how to play quarterback.

“There’s no timetable on how this thing works."

It's true that there's a lot of uncertainty when it comes to when a team should move on from a quarterback who's failed to live up to expectations. The pressure to find a replacement is even higher when quarterbacks from the same draft class are thriving, as is the case with Trubisky, who entered the NFL with Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson.

Trubisky entered the NFL after throwing just 572 passes as a college quarterback at UNC. Compared to Mahomes, who had 857 attempts, and Watson, who threw 1,207 college passes, it's reasonable to expect a longer learning curve for Trubisky who simply wasn't ready to start right away in the pros.

And that's why he'll be given one more season to prove Pace was right when he drafted him over both Mahomes and Watson. It was a gamble on Trubisky's upside.

But the leash is short. Trubisky can't cost the Bears a chance at a playoff run, especially not with a defense in place that can contend for a Super Bowl if the offense does its job.

It's easy to get frustrated and demand change. However, when a Hall-of-Famer like Warner preaches patience, it'd be wise to take his advice.

Drone7 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:23 pm

IE wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:55 am It is so long because of the intensity of Bear fan understanding of how important the QB position is, and how desperately everyone wants to see the 50 + years of mediocrity (being kind) at the position finally end.

If you distill it down, everyone really has the same "want". All the disagreement is really just fear from some folks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, versus others doubting there is a baby in there at all. Whether there is or isn't, I'm pretty sure our legacy is going to be at lower risk if we have more kids.

COMPETITION

Toss the baby into the deep end.

Trubisky has been babied since HS. He received a redshirt, then spent the next two seasons "grooming" (beaten out) behind a guy that quickly got cut in the NFL, sat in the Canadian League and is now in the XFL(?). Mahomes and Watson outcompeted their rivals and quickly got on the field.

Trubisky gets to the Bears and his "competition" is Stork Glennon, who bombed in four games. Next regime brings in "competition" from Chasin' the Clipboard Daniels and Big Donkey Bray.

G08 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:36 pm

I thought Nick Foles was "big Donkey"

Drone7 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:04 pm

He's a big donkey that can play.

IE · Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:57 pm

Ever see the size of Kurt Warner's hands? How did he ever fumble? Maybe he should be named big donkey.

I agree with Warner that there is no real QB development timeline. That works as a perfect defense of Mitch in terms of his career. And it also serves as the perfect rationale to bring in at least an average NFL QB right now on top of drafting one. Because there is NO rule in terms of when a QB should develop, if they ever do. And the Bears need a QB they can win with in Nagy's system... now... this fall. And they need to hedge and create a QB depth chart now.

dplank · Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:03 pm

I wish they'd expand rosters so we could carry 3 all the time instead of having one be such a turd that they can just hang out on the practice squad. Because I like this concept IE, but right now it won't work unless we chop another position down by one to hold 3. Let's say we do: Trubisky, Keenum, Fromme. I'd love this, but it would essentially cost us a LB/DB spot.

Drone7 · Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:12 pm

dplank wrote: ↑Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:03 pm I wish they'd expand rosters so we could carry 3 all the time instead of having one be such a turd that they can just hang out on the practice squad. Because I like this concept IE, but right now it won't work unless we chop another position down by one to hold 3. Let's say we do: Trubisky, Keenum, Fromme. I'd love this, but it would essentially cost us a LB/DB spot.

If he makes the cut, we'll just have to call him Squeaky Fromme!

IE · Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:58 am

Mitch is a great athlete. I'm sure he would excel at ST.

J/K!

BamaBear09 · Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:43 am

Found this wandering around twitter... it's kinda cool... you can compare QB seasons with analytics...

https://public.tableau.com/profile/dani ... isonFinder

Moriarty · Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:55 am

BamaBear09 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:43 am Found this wandering around twitter... it's kinda cool... you can compare QB seasons with analytics...

https://public.tableau.com/profile/dani ... isonFinder

It's a fantastic concept, but I'm dubious about the execution.

It compared Trubisky's 2018 season to Drew Brees's 2017

67% comp, 7.4 ypa, 24/12 TD/INT, 95 rating
vs
72% comp, 8.1 ypa, 23/8 TD/INT, 104 rating

BamaBear09 · Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:39 am

Moriarty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:55 am
BamaBear09 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:43 am Found this wandering around twitter... it's kinda cool... you can compare QB seasons with analytics...

https://public.tableau.com/profile/dani ... isonFinder
It's a fantastic concept, but I'm dubious about the execution.

It compared Trubisky's 2018 season to Drew Brees's 2017

67% comp, 7.4 ypa, 24/12 TD/INT, 95 rating
vs
72% comp, 8.1 ypa, 23/8 TD/INT, 104 rating

I mean it's only a 90.8% match and it's basing the comparison mainly on EPA... and they are comparable (Trubisky actually edged him out) in those categories... and yes while Brees rating was higher, Trubisky had a higher QBR for the season...

IE · Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:08 pm

We've already covered that QBR is less a function of the QB's replacement value (individual contribution) than a measure of the success of the position due to team level factors.

I think comparing those two seasons doesn't pass even a basic sniff test. But perhaps the algo heard that Trubisky projects to be Brees-like and so that is part of their math.

BamaBear09 · Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:30 pm

IE wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:08 pm We've already covered that QBR is less a function of the QB's replacement value (individual contribution) than a measure of the success of the position due to team level factors.

I think comparing those two seasons doesn't pass even a basic sniff test. But perhaps the algo heard that Trubisky projects to be Brees-like and so that is part of their math.

Also it was Brees's worst season since back in SD...

The Cooler King · Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:26 pm

Moriarty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:55 am
BamaBear09 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:43 am Found this wandering around twitter... it's kinda cool... you can compare QB seasons with analytics...

https://public.tableau.com/profile/dani ... isonFinder
It's a fantastic concept, but I'm dubious about the execution.

It compared Trubisky's 2018 season to Drew Brees's 2017

67% comp, 7.4 ypa, 24/12 TD/INT, 95 rating
vs
72% comp, 8.1 ypa, 23/8 TD/INT, 104 rating

Kinda cool. Also, his comp for both 2017 and 2019 is 2013 Chad Henne.

When you scroll through possible realistic alternatives, the year by year data is very mixed. These guys can range wildly year to year. There's only a handful of guys that give you consistent play year over year.

Drone7 · Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:38 pm

You guys sure love the comparative stats.

Aside from the specifics of why he is inconsistent, which have already been discussed, what bothers me most is there are too many lousy games. He has had good games, mediocre games; even occasional bad games--they can live with those. But he's had too many really bad games.

G08 · Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 pm

Drone7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:38 pm You guys sure love the comparative stats.

Aside from the specifics of why he is inconsistent, which have already been discussed, what bothers me most is there are too many lousy games. He has had good games, mediocre games; even occasional bad games--they can live with those. But he's had too many really bad games.

... wouldn't the specifics of why he is inconsistent tie into his number of lousy games?

I don't understand how knowledgeable football fans see poor/erratic play from the least experienced QB taken in the first round, post-merger, and act appaled.

thunderspirit · Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:44 am

G08 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 pm
... wouldn't the specifics of why he is inconsistent tie into his number of lousy games?

I don't understand how knowledgeable football fans see poor/erratic play from the least experienced QB taken in the first round, post-merger, and act appaled.

JMSO, there's nothing wrong with pointing out that Trubisky hasn't developed like the Bears expected he would.

Likewise, there's also nothing wrong with pointing out that QB development is rarely linear. It's the hardest position in professional sports to play.

Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:06 am

thunderspirit wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:44 am
G08 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 pm
... wouldn't the specifics of why he is inconsistent tie into his number of lousy games?

I don't understand how knowledgeable football fans see poor/erratic play from the least experienced QB taken in the first round, post-merger, and act appaled.
JMSO, there's nothing wrong with pointing out that Trubisky hasn't developed as fast as Bears fans wanted him to.

Likewise, there's also nothing wrong with pointing out that QB development is rarely linear. It's the hardest position in professional sports to play.

Fix'd

Otis Day · Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:12 am

G08 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 pm
Drone7 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:38 pm You guys sure love the comparative stats.

Aside from the specifics of why he is inconsistent, which have already been discussed, what bothers me most is there are too many lousy games. He has had good games, mediocre games; even occasional bad games--they can live with those. But he's had too many really bad games.
... wouldn't the specifics of why he is inconsistent tie into his number of lousy games?

I don't understand how knowledgeable football fans see poor/erratic play from the least experienced QB taken in the first round, post-merger, and act appaled.

Maybe it goes back to the fact he was drafted, after a trade up, by an organization that has a woeful QB history and said QB was the least experienced and patience was never really talked about.

Not sure, just throwing that out there.

I think this corpse of a horse is beyond beat,

BR0D1E86 · Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:10 pm

wab wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:06 am
thunderspirit wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:44 am
JMSO, there's nothing wrong with pointing out that Trubisky hasn't developed as fast as Bears fans wanted him to.

Likewise, there's also nothing wrong with pointing out that QB development is rarely linear. It's the hardest position in professional sports to play.
Fix'd

If you think the Bears drafted Trubisky hoping he'd develop into one of the two or three worst starting quarterbacks in the league after year three, I strongly disagree. And every single member of the front office deserves to be fired immediately.