Bears have 31st ranked offseason according to Barnwell

[dplank]

I'm not a Barnwell fan, even so I just can't wrap my head around this.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/291 ... l-32-teams

As others have noted, everything seems to be about the QB. He effectively uses hindsight to point out that we should have passed on Foles and waited for Cam/Flacco to come at a bargain discount. And he shits on the Graham deal, saying we should have gone after Ebron for cheaper.

He likes the Ifedi, Quinn, and Artie Burns deals...

He also offers this disclaimer which I just caught and makes more sense now:
" Finally, and this is important: These aren't power rankings of how these teams will perform in 2020. Some of the worst teams in the league from last season will finish at or near the top of these rankings because they were able to draft immediate-impact players at key positions, while some of the best teams shed talent or weren't able to add much in the draft because they had already dealt away picks."

[wab]

It's like the cool new thing to shit all over the Bears. Weird.

[G08]

It's like the cool new thing to shit all over the Bears. Weird.

It's always been a thing... the league tried to give us a chance to change our reputation and we proceeded to shit the bed week 1 against Green Bay.

Fucking franchise can't get out of it's own way.

[UOK]

Ever since Trubisky went over Watson/Mahomes, the football world was rubbing its hands together in anticipation of smearing a piping-hot, all new and smokin' fresh shit pie right in the franchise's face.

The team sucked last year and the offense looked pedestrian. All this ranking shit is clickbait, nothing more. Nobody knows anything. Zero. Bears could win every game 55-0 and next year they'd be predicted to have the 28th ranked offense because (trending player) on (trending team) now has (new variable) to work and thrive with, so (insert bullshit speculation based on market metrics for drawing clicks to improve website ad revenue) will occur, and the Bears, despite destroying the NFL last year, will take a massive step backward because (insert provacative remarks to incite Chicago anger), yata yata.

[Yogi da Bear]

I'm not a Barnwell fan, even so I just can't wrap my head around this.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/291 ... l-32-teams

As others have noted, everything seems to be about the QB. He effectively uses hindsight to point out that we should have passed on Foles and waited for Cam/Flacco to come at a bargain discount. And he shits on the Graham deal, saying we should have gone after Ebron for cheaper.

He likes the Ifedi, Quinn, and Artie Burns deals...

He also offers this disclaimer which I just caught and makes more sense now:
" Finally, and this is important: These aren't power rankings of how these teams will perform in 2020. Some of the worst teams in the league from last season will finish at or near the top of these rankings because they were able to draft immediate-impact players at key positions, while some of the best teams shed talent or weren't able to add much in the draft because they had already dealt away picks."

Stupid.

So he wants to grade our off season, but he doesn't want to take responsibility for that grade by linking that grade to actual performance. For instance, he denigrates the Graham signing by saying that we should have pursued Ebron, but he's not willing to take responsibility for that claim if Graham is a benefit to the team and grossly outplays Ebron this season. Like I said, "stupid." It's like saying, "I'm going to slam the team, but I'm not going to say how that will adversely affect them this season." Then what use is it?

And just a tidbit that doesn't make sense in his analysis. He says he loves the Artie Burns deal, and in the next breath says the Bears still have to get a veteran corner. Excuse me, Artie Burns IS a veteran corner you dumbass. Still surprised that he didn't say we needed a veteran OG after signing Ifedi. How is that any different. Like everybody else at ESPN, this guy is a tool.

[dplank]

He is a massive tool, with the worst hair I've ever seen. The combover failed 10 years ago dipshit, no amount of sideburns will make that untrue.

[UOK]

Christ, that's unfortunate.

[crueltyabc]

I don't know why people are struggling with the structure of this article when the first example is the simplest: the Texans. Bill O'Brien made moves this offseason like he was trying to sabotage the team. It was awful. Everyone can agree on #32. I think we can also agree that the Texans will be a decent team next year because they still have some talent. O'Brien couldn't ruin it all in one offseason. That's what Barnwell's caveat on performance is describing. Offseasons can only make so much of a difference. The core of a team generally carries year over year.

So as for the Bears being 31... if you think Foles is bad and Trubisky is bad and Graham is washed up and Quinn is overpaid and Kmet was drafted too early... then you can hate the Bears offseason. I think Barnwell probably still predicts the Bears will win some games with their defense, so I'll bet he has Bears at like 25 in his power rankings.

We are homers on this board and 40% gave Pace a C or D for his draft. Multiple posters have called for him and Nagy to be fired. Some of us wanted Ebron. Some of us wanted Dalton. etc etc. Is it really so wild that a national media person would be down on the Bears offseason?

EDIT: Also Barnwell has a terrible voice that matches his hair, and is terribly annoying on podcasts.

[Richie]

I tell ya man... I never expected the degree of hate we would get this off-season. It's just weird. I'm not even mad. It's just... odd.

[AZ_Bearfan]

Yeah. As much as I relish the underdog role, this seems a bit too much.

[dplank]

Talking heads always run in packs, so once a narrative hits their stratosphere you don't get many strong minded people who break from the pack mentality. Whoever sourced the anti-bears narrative is who to blame, the rest I just blame for being thoughtless morons.

[Yogi da Bear]

I don't know why people are struggling with the structure of this article when the first example is the simplest: the Texans. Bill O'Brien made moves this offseason like he was trying to sabotage the team. It was awful. Everyone can agree on #32. I think we can also agree that the Texans will be a decent team next year because they still have some talent. O'Brien couldn't ruin it all in one offseason. That's what Barnwell's caveat on performance is describing. Offseasons can only make so much of a difference. The core of a team generally carries year over year.

So as for the Bears being 31... if you think Foles is bad and Trubisky is bad and Graham is washed up and Quinn is overpaid and Kmet was drafted too early... then you can hate the Bears offseason. I think Barnwell probably still predicts the Bears will win some games with their defense, so I'll bet he has Bears at like 25 in his power rankings.

We are homers on this board and 40% gave Pace a C or D for his draft. Multiple posters have called for him and Nagy to be fired. Some of us wanted Ebron. Some of us wanted Dalton. etc etc. Is it really so wild that a national media person would be down on the Bears offseason?

EDIT: Also Barnwell has a terrible voice that matches his hair, and is terribly annoying on podcasts.

It's still ridiculous. He says that the Bears gave Graham the worst contract in free agency because we already had put in so many resources into the position with Dion Sims, Shaheen, and Burton. What a stupid take. So you shouldn't address the position because of having failed so bad in the past there? And then he says we should have pursued Ebron instead, but it doesn't seem like he's willing to take responsibility if Graham ends up having a much better season than Ebron.

Again, he says he likes the Ifedi signing as our RG, and that he also like the Burns signing. But we should also pursue yet another veteran CB, but not another veteran OG. Why? Aren't these two basically in the same situation? And in the case of CB, we actually drafted one in the second. Yet we need another? WTF?!

Guy's a nimrod.

[RichH55]

The Jimmy Graham deal was bad value - we certainly are hoping he turns it around at age 34 -

But he's not wrong to note how insane it is he got a No Trade cause.

Foles - I still like the idea and the contract isn't as bad as it could be - but he's not wrong to note the Market wasn't paying a 4th Round pick for a QB a team was trying to get rid of (Somehow Calais Campbell got a lesser pick and he's still playing at a very high level)

I still think 31st is much too low (some of the low cost moves were solid - and he seems to like the Quinn move)

Feels like there is some residual issues from having to spend so much money/resources to fix iffy Draft picks

Valid critiques but I dont think its a fair ranking

[Yogi da Bear]

My problem is first his rationale, and second, that he seems to want to evade responsibility for his contentions.

He first implies that we shouldn't have given Graham so much money because Pace has already spent so much at the TE position with Sims, Burton, and Shaheen. That's an idiotic premise. Burton and Sims are no longer even on the team and Shaheen has been abysmal. Nagy's offense is one that requires the TE. It makes complete sense that he would address the position.

Next is his whole premise with respect to OG and CB that I brought up before. He said he like both the Ifedi and Burns signing. Both were first round picks in 2016 who failed to live up to their draft day billing. Both signed for the exact same money. Only he specifically points out that we have to bring in another veteran CB while making no mention of another OG. Really? Why? Tolliver played much better at CB than Coward ever did at OG. And we drafted a CB in the second and the fifth. We didn't address OG until the 7th. So how does he figure?

Finally, he goes out of his way to point out that this isn't about next season's performance, pre-exonerating himself of any kind of blame for his opinion while saying we should have gone after Ebron rather than Graham. Does his "pre-exoneration" mean we can't compare the relative performances of Graham versus Ebron? Sure sounds like it.

Like I said, complete nimrod.

[wab]

The Jimmy Graham deal was bad value - we certainly are hoping he turns it around at age 34 -

But he's not wrong to note how insane it is he got a No Trade cause.

Foles - I still like the idea and the contract isn't as bad as it could be - but he's not wrong to note the Market wasn't paying a 4th Round pick for a QB a team was trying to get rid of (Somehow Calais Campbell got a lesser pick and he's still playing at a very high level)

I still think 31st is much too low (some of the low cost moves were solid - and he seems to like the Quinn move)

Feels like there is some residual issues from having to spend so much money/resources to fix iffy Draft picks

Valid critiques but I dont think its a fair ranking

People are reading too much into the Graham thing. He's being paid to do what no Bears TE has been able to do for the last 2 years - stay healthy.

No one is expecting the dude to put up Kelce level numbers. He's expected to be a sure handed and steady target that will play 16 games and catch 60 balls for 650 yards and 5-6 TDs.

[Z Bear]

The Graham signing actually looks better after the draft since we took Kmet. Graham will provide the veteran presence and teach the new kids the tricks of the trade. There was no one left in the room to do that once Burton got cut.

[Moriarty]

Some of the most conspicuous parts of the Bear offseason deserve some low-voting:

Below average draft capital, overpaying Graham due to desperation, letting Burton go due to injury and/or bad relationship after mishandling, giving a pick and moderate pay for Foles when Dalton went for far less, questionable big signing of Quinn.

But some of the quieter parts went well: Ifedi, Gipson, Ginn look like excellent cheap pickups.


The biggest things that needed fixing were QB play and OL play and TE play. The first two are probably a little to somewhat better. TE should be moderately to significantly better.

[Yogi da Bear]

Some of the most conspicuous parts of the Bear offseason deserve some low-voting:

Below average draft capital, overpaying Graham due to desperation, letting Burton go due to injury and/or bad relationship after mishandling, giving a pick and moderate pay for Foles when Dalton went for far less, questionable big signing of Quinn.

Below Average Draft Capital: Happened because of the Mack trade. Would you rather NOT have Mack. If you look at this as acquiring Mack for those draft resources lost, does it still deserve low voting? Not in my book.

Overpaying Graham: Yeah, the amount probably deserves a low score, but certainly NOT if he stays healthy. He says he's as healthy as he's been in years, and he stills has speed. For what this offense needs, he's an important cog. Would you rather wait for Shaheen to develop? lol If Graham outperforms the other FA TEs who were signed, does it still get a low score?

Releasing Burton: If he's injured, how's that a low score? And with Burton, he became expendable. They both play the same position. Releasing Burton doesn't deserve a low score. Initially signing him probably does.

Foles over Dalton: I didn't want Dalton. Foles knows the offense and can step in at any time. Can Dalton? With the Quarantine, Foles was the much safer option. This staff needs to win now.

Quinn Signing? Really? That's a low score? He was the best pass rusher in the league last year. Everybody's saying how we've need another pass rushing threat to replace Floyd opposite Mack. In my mind, great move, not a low score at all.

[RichH55]

Yogi - If you get the Robert Quinn of 2015, 2016, or 2018 that's actually kind of a problem (ironically his 2017 at OLB was his best in that 4 year span). A lot of that is health yes . But guys don't tend to be healthier at 30 then they were 25-28.

"This staff needs to win now." This is TRUE - it is also NOT the prism to actually analyse decisions through. Desperate men are NOT known for their sensible wise decisions.

Why are we sure that Graham still has speed? I mean I hope so - but the reasoning so far stops at "I hope so" and Press Conference puffery

Burton - He kind of has to be injured to justify it - He didn't cost much extra to keep - I would have spent 100 K in Cap to see how he looked in Training Camp

The market for Veteran QBs this offseason was pretty soft - Bears dealing a 4th for Foles looks like an overpay.

Pace likes to get his guy - but he seldom is a Poker player about it

[HisRoyalSweetness]

It's all just projection at this point. Until we see the new signings play, nobody has any idea whether this has been a good offseason or not. Every year there is a combination of players who disappoint, underwhelm, live up to expectations, and pleasantly surprise.

[Yogi da Bear]

Yogi - If you get the Robert Quinn of 2015, 2016, or 2018 that's actually kind of a problem (ironically his 2017 at OLB was his best in that 4 year span). A lot of that is health yes . But guys don't tend to be healthier at 30 then they were 25-28.

In 2015, he had 5 sacks, 21 tackles, 3 PDs, and 3 FFs in less than half a season. If that's a problem, it's a problem for opposing offenses. 2016 is same story without quite the numbers (half the tackles of '15 is concerning). I kind of look at his 2018 like Mack's 2019 where he was the only guy (Suh was gone and Cameron Wake was really old).

Why are we sure that Graham still has speed? I mean I hope so - but the reasoning so far stops at "I hope so" and Press Conference puffery

No, his speed is easily verifiable on tape. I know you hate highlights (and with some good reason), but highlights are sufficient to tell his respective speed. He's not as fast as he was with the Saints, but he's still pretty damn quick on this reel:


And he says he's even faster now (that is a "I hope so," but his speed on that clip is an "I know so").



Burton - He kind of has to be injured to justify it - He didn't cost much extra to keep - I would have spent 100 K in Cap to see how he looked in Training Camp

The market for Veteran QBs this offseason was pretty soft - Bears dealing a 4th for Foles looks like an overpay.

Pace likes to get his guy - but he seldom is a Poker player about it
[/quote]

[RichH55]

Yogi - If you get the Robert Quinn of 2015, 2016, or 2018 that's actually kind of a problem (ironically his 2017 at OLB was his best in that 4 year span). A lot of that is health yes . But guys don't tend to be healthier at 30 then they were 25-28.

In 2015, he had 5 sacks, 21 tackles, 3 PDs, and 3 FFs in less than half a season. If that's a problem, it's a problem for opposing offenses. 2016 is same story without quite the numbers (half the tackles of '15 is concerning). I kind of look at his 2018 like Mack's 2019 where he was the only guy (Suh was gone and Cameron Wake was really old).

Why are we sure that Graham still has speed? I mean I hope so - but the reasoning so far stops at "I hope so" and Press Conference puffery

No, his speed is easily verifiable on tape. I know you hate highlights (and with some good reason), but highlights are sufficient to tell his respective speed. He's not as fast as he was with the Saints, but he's still pretty damn quick on this reel:


And he says he's even faster now (that is a "I hope so," but his speed on that clip is an "I know so").



Burton - He kind of has to be injured to justify it - He didn't cost much extra to keep - I would have spent 100 K in Cap to see how he looked in Training Camp

The market for Veteran QBs this offseason was pretty soft - Bears dealing a 4th for Foles looks like an overpay.

Pace likes to get his guy - but he seldom is a Poker player about it

[/quote]

"In 2015, he had 5 sacks, 21 tackles, 3 PDs, and 3 FFs in less than half a season. If that's a problem, it's a problem for opposing offenses"

Ummmm - What do they have to do for the >50% of the Season he isn't playing? Do they owe him like a Sideline pass or something - And that's why they have to Account for him? And for some reason we are making the Offense give him those Passes?

Why not have the marketing department do that? Seems short sighted to me

(*HINT : The whole missing large chunks of seasons is a HUGE problem - the brushing off the year he wasn't all that good is not a great take either - but it's the lesser issue)


Graham - Scouting on Highlights - Still super dumb - but what are you looking for here? A bunch of these are jump ball wins, or setting into the right spot against zone or Cover 2 coverage - Or making nice contested catches when the coverage (including a good chunk of either S or LB) was TIGHT - Or its a dump off or come back where he's literally stopped or barely moving when the Pass comes his way. He gets caught from behind (including by LB) in several of the plays

None of that looked like his Speed was great (AND that's his only plays those years - So the plays where he's just Locked up because the LB or S can easily run with him - Not featured.

He doesn't look like a Slug mind you - but the Speed didn't seem great for TE either

Still looks better than Adam Shaheen - so hurrah!?

[spudbear]

The Bears had the "31st" ranked offense and it's difficult not to dispute that too much based on what we saw. Yet they were in contention for a wild card slot with three weeks to go and ended up finishing 8-8. In a pass-happy score a bunch of points league, the Bears were competitive in spite of Mitch taking a big step backwards. How many times last year did the Bears O impose their will on a team? Only the Dallas game comes to mind.

Pace targeted his main two candidates in FA, Foles and Graham, and spent what he thought he had to do to get them. I'll take Foles over Cam, Flacco or Dalton without much second thought. Graham was needed to stabilize the TE corps as Pace knew Burton was history and he was going to get the best TE in the draft that he could. Ebron may have more gas in the tank but I don't know if that gas is very stable. Fortunately Kmet fell to them in the second, and Graham will be a good influence on him.

In a draft rich with WR's the Bears did not have the draft capital to grab an early round receiver. I'm surprised more discussion has not focused on the Bears WR corps. After ARob you have .... Miller (still not sure about him), CPat (Nagy doesn't seem to trust him) and the yutes Wims and Ridley. Pace did well to grab Ginn, addressing the need for speed as well as another vet receiver.

Finally, the Bears were one of the worst downfield blocking teams. A few years ago they were one of the better teams with Marshall, Jeffery and Bennett. Hopefully Graham and Ginn can lead by example and show the team that some well placed downfield blocks can result in big plays. Coaches need to have the players step up in this aspect.

[Yogi da Bear]

"In 2015, he had 5 sacks, 21 tackles, 3 PDs, and 3 FFs in less than half a season. If that's a problem, it's a problem for opposing offenses"

Ummmm - What do they have to do for the >50% of the Season he isn't playing? Do they owe him like a Sideline pass or something - And that's why they have to Account for him? And for some reason we are making the Offense give him those Passes?

Why not have the marketing department do that? Seems short sighted to me

(*HINT : The whole missing large chunks of seasons is a HUGE problem - the brushing off the year he wasn't all that good is not a great take either - but it's the lesser issue)

Double ummmm: that comes out to 10 sacks, 42 tackles, 6 PDs, and 6 FFs for an entire year. It's even more impressive when you consider he only played on 29% of defensive snaps that year! Yeah, I think that's one big ass problem for opposing offenses.

Now, if you want to say that you're considered with his injury history rather than his actual performance on the field, that's another matter altogether, and I don't think it's near the problem you've made it out. In nine seasons, he's only missed more than two games in season twice, and those were four and five years ago. In the past three seasons, he's only missed four games total. So no, to me, his injury history is not a major concern at all. But I will give you this, if he misses the whole season due to injury then we overpaid for him, but then you can say that about absolutely anybody on our roster. For a nine year veteran, his injury history hasn't been a major concern relatively speaking, and none whatsoever in the past three years.

Even in his worst season, playing on only 34% of defensive snaps, he still rushed the passer better than Floyd did last year while playing on 84% of defensive snaps. Pass rushing wise, he's a HUGE upgrade over Floyd.

Graham - Scouting on Highlights - Still super dumb - but what are you looking for here? A bunch of these are jump ball wins, or setting into the right spot against zone or Cover 2 coverage - Or making nice contested catches when the coverage (including a good chunk of either S or LB) was TIGHT - Or its a dump off or come back where he's literally stopped or barely moving when the Pass comes his way. He gets caught from behind (including by LB) in several of the plays

None of that looked like his Speed was great (AND that's his only plays those years - So the plays where he's just Locked up because the LB or S can easily run with him - Not featured.

He doesn't look like a Slug mind you - but the Speed didn't seem great for TE either

Still looks better than Adam Shaheen - so hurrah!?

Then you simply aren't looking. In that reel, there are a number of examples where he outruns DBs or gets a step or two on them in coverage. I figure that from those clips he's a sub 4.7 (probably about a 4.65-4.67 guy). That's not his 4.56 coming out, but still faster than our second round pick. If he's even faster now, I figure he'll be a low 4.6 guy. Plenty fast enough.

[RichH55]

"Pass rushing wise, he's a HUGE upgrade over Floyd."

True - almost anyone is though - you don't give $30 million guaranteed for merely better pass rusher than Floyd. That's poor analysis

"Double ummmm: that comes out to 10 sacks, 42 tackles, 6 PDs, and 6 FFs for an entire year. "

That's not how that works. 2015-2018 - ZERO Years with 10 sacks (2015, 2016, and 2018 would be considered down years for him under this contract

To the point he had to settle for a 1 year deal with Dallas last year

If you get 2019? Fantastic (though you need to get multiple years at that price at age 30). If you get 2015, 2016, or 2018? That's not great



Simply disagree on Graham - even with the foolish best case Highlights - And he even admitted his legs weren't great in GB (They feel great NOW Yogi, not then). That's poor scouting. I was watching really hoping to be wowed by the Speed - but it wasn't that - it was jump balls, routes, and catch radius stuff (That can be nice). But there is no chance he's a sub 4.7 guy on those Green Bay Clips

[Yogi da Bear]

Dude, you're criticizing Quinn for BEING INJURED not for his actual on field performance. We're paying for him for his ON FIELD PERFORMANCE not for being injured. lol He's only missed significant time in two of nine seasons and only four games in the past three years. I'm okay taking that gamble. Quinn hasn't shown himself to be significant injury risk except for those two years that happened four and five years ago. You know, if Mack gets injured next year, than his contract is crap too. Totally stupid analysis on your part.

If Graham's not a sub 4.7 on those clips, than there are some damn slow DBs and LBs in the NFL because he gets downfield separation and out runs quite a few of them.

[RichH55]

Do injuries not matter? What are you talking about? Quinn has been dinged up over the years - reports on his struggles in 2016 were due to lingering injuries (Shoulder injury that year, back in 2015)

If you get the Robert Quinn of 2015, 2016, or 2018 - Then it's a bad contract - Not sure what is hard to see there

If you get 2015, 2016, or 2018 from Mack - You are supremely happy

See the basic easy to see difference there? Why thats a bad comp? (I know, now you have to double down, but jesus)

That's what one calls a resume (The Mack thing is real dumb in comparison - If Mack had a history or either injury or poor play derived from injury then worrying about it going forward would be reasonable)


(Or if I'm talking to Yogi in another thread 2017 for Quinn too since he played the dreaded OLB and for some reason you worry about that)

Your scouting on Highlights for Graham leaves much to be desired - we can leave it at that