Trubisky Named Starter

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dplank
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I fault them for not being decisive Rich. We all saw Mitch implode. If they want to blame extenuating circumstances fine, then spend around him to fix those circumstances. Don’t over spend on a backup QB, be decisive if that’s what you believe. Foles on the bench doesn’t help us at all, but a bonafide LT sure would. I don’t care at all about having a plan B at QB, that never works. Push all in in Plan A if that’s what you believe in.

Mitch was nearly the worst QB in the NFL last year with the same coach, scheme, and surrounding cast. Only Ifedi and Graham are different, why would we expect a different result?
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DP, I'm absolutely with you on this thread. So keep it up.

The only thing I differ with you is when (OK maaaaybe if) Mitch shits the bed, our season is far from over.

I truly believe (through my mind reading powers) is the plan all along, yes even when trading for Foles, was; Trubisky will open the season on a short leash.

As I've been saying: Mitch is gifted starts in weeks one and two. When (if) the offense struggles in the first half of each game, Foles will relieve, and that with our strong defense, will make us 2-0. Hardly a lost season. :toast:
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dplank wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:25 pm I fault them for not being decisive Rich. We all saw Mitch implode. If they want to blame extenuating circumstances fine, then spend around him to fix those circumstances. Don’t over spend on a backup QB, be decisive if that’s what you believe. Foles on the bench doesn’t help us at all, but a bonafide LT sure would. I don’t care at all about having a plan B at QB, that never works. Push all in in Plan A if that’s what you believe in.

Mitch was nearly the worst QB in the NFL last year with the same coach, scheme, and surrounding cast. Only Ifedi and Graham are different, why would we expect a different result?

This is kind of all over the place with issues

1) The Left Tackle portion - I understand the Trent Williams stuff (and its not as cut and dried as you make it) BUT - Nick Foles isn't stopping that from happening

That is a false choice.

2). You should sure as hell care about Plan B at QB - especially when the team was never likely to be a Peyton Manning led type squad (The old saw about why didn't Peyton's backups didn't get practice snaps - and the Coach said "If Peyton goes down we are fucked. And we don't practice fucked")

Having a good Plan B is a good idea. It's generally smart to hedge bets and limit risk where you can (People can disagree on if the cost for Foles was worth it or if Foles was even the right hedge generally - Fair.

Your guy could get hurt. Hell - could get covid and miss games. Or you wanted Mitch as a starter in Week 1 - but if Weeks 1-3 are bad - you want to have a viable alternative unlike we've had in the past.

3) And Mitch in 2018 was quite good - Player development is often not linear - This was also when they picked him something that was built in - He needed more development than the other QBs - You were probably less likely to know after Year 3 on Mitch than the others

Does that guarantee growth? Of course not. But 2019 certainly doesn't automatically preclude it either.


4) " I don’t care at all about having a plan B at QB, that never works. "

I wonder if I could shoot that down with any example from Foles's career so far? Hmmmm.



Personally I think they want Mitch to succeed and still believe in him (to an extent) - They wanted a viable other option and I think if there were a normal Preseason that Foles would have had more of a chance (I do think it was a true competition)
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I stand by my take and don’t have any desire to run through a never ending gauntlet with you Rich. You aren’t quite getting my point and are twisting a few things (not purposefully) and I’ve been down this road with you one too many times.

Bottom line. If Mitch was always going to be your starter, then believe in it and then match your offseason around that premise. We did not. I wouldn’t have paid Quinn or Foles, I’d have gone for Cam for much cheaper 1 yr deal (I’m on record for this) and bolstered our OL with one stud FA. There’s more but that’s the gist of it.

It was not a true competition. That’s not their fault, it’s a circumstance of the covid stuff. But a QB1 and QB1a scenario never works. Of course you still need a backup.
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How its possible to write this in 2020 ? and include the Tampa Bay game :-D

https://dabearsblog.com/2020/bearsneedtrubisky

MT not aggressive is the single right mention. But its too late. aggressive leading to more mistakes.
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dplank wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:25 pm I don’t care at all about having a plan B at QB, that never works. Push all in in Plan A if that’s what you believe in.

Mitch was nearly the worst QB in the NFL last year with the same coach, scheme, and surrounding cast.
This is what I don’t understand about your argument and where it completely falls apart for me.

You just said Mitch was “The worst QB in the NFL last year”. Pushing “all in” on plan A by just getting a LT is a TERRIBLE option. A LT doesn’t salvage a season if Mitch is AGAIN “The worst QB in the NFL”. You’re going “all in” by literally throwing the season away. This, to me at least, was a good option for the franchise. Put up or shut up! This is year 3 in the same offense, can you do it or not? Oh, you can’t...have a seat, the season isn’t gone, Foles the team is yours.

And THIS is where your argument COMPLETELY falls apart with “I don’t care about plan B, plan B never works”. Our “Plan B” was also “Plan B” a few years ago with another team and that “Plan B” won a Super Bowl. So it “never works” until it does. This is the best “Plan B” we could have hoped for IMO. Perhaps Cam was a better option but only 1 other team felt that way, we weren’t the only team that said “not interested”. I’ll have to agree with your assessment here...$1,000,000 Cam and a LT sure does seem like a better option, but here we are.

IMO, this is the best opportunity Mitch will have to succeed in the NFL and it’s actually due to COVID. The first skipped pass, the first pass sailing over somebody’s head on a 5 yard route, the first sack he takes where he just stands there and does nothing instead of make a decision...the boo’s were going to rain down from the sky 61,000+ fans strong! There was going to be merciless chanting and booing until Foles took the field. There are no fans! Mitch can make his dumb mistake and trot right back on the field, or call the next play, confidence intact. If he CAN’T do this, it’s completely on him AND we still have a legitimate shot at a worthwhile season, Foles comes in. Your alternative is Trubisky is the terrible QB you saw last year, he sucks, thus we suck, BUT...we have a LT.

LT would have helped, but it’s not going to be the deciding factor in the Trubisky story. He’s going to get it and play, or he won’t and we move on, EXCEPT, there’s still hope for the season.
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There’s a lot to tear apart here. You simply aren’t understanding my point.

Wentz / Foles were not QB1 and QB1a. Foles simply did a good job as backup when Wentz got hurt, but Wentz was never going to be benched or had to look over his shoulder if he had a bad game. But that’s what we are doing here. Hopefully that makes more sense, like I said of course we need a backup QB. I just don’t want a QB1a scenario. Platoons and/or swapping guys out mid season is just a poor idea generally.

I also said Trubisky was “one of the worst”...repeatedly. Not THE worst.

And yes, I believe he IS one of the worst. I was simply theorizing from a starting point of where Pace/Nagy were, which was that they were determined to give Mitch one last try. I don’t believe they were right there, but I was pointing out the hypothetical IF THATS WHAT THEY HAD IN MIND then they should have approached the offseason differently. You just completely missed the point there.
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I'm kind of shocked that everyone seems to have forgotten that we almost all assumed Mitch would start the first game. Did we think that wouldn't come with "spin"?

This is just such a non-surprise and actually such a sure thing. It's so funny now that people are pretending there was some kind of competition.

I hope he got better for real - meaning gets better in games. 7 more days I'm dying.
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IE wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:11 pm I'm kind of shocked that everyone seems to have forgotten that we almost all assumed Mitch would start the first game. Did we think that wouldn't come with "spin"?

This is just such a non-surprise and actually such a sure thing. It's so funny now that people are pretending there was some kind of competition.

I hope he got better for real - meaning gets better in games. 7 more days I'm dying.
Yea agree. IMO, LT is the second most important position on offense behind QB so that’s why I place emphasis on it. But we are where we are, the season is a week away, I’m ready to move on and root for a Mitch miracle turn around.
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FWIW - Hoge and Jahns confirmed on their Sunday podcast that while they didn't think either of the QBs 'won' the job in the 10 practices they were allowed to watch - they did confirm that Trubisky was improved in the areas Nagy had tasked him with improving in. He was much better about keeping his eyes downfield, keeping his footwork clean, and not abandoning perfectly good pockets.

Trubisky worked all off-season with QB guru Jeff Christiansan on his footwork and mechanics and at least in practice there was a little more consistency.

We'll see if any of that carries over to the games.

But I don't even care - I just want to see some Bears football.
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You did convince me that they should have done something else at LT besides just hire a new coordinator and hope because of the contract situation. I was definitely approaching that situation as a "false choice" and it was you Plank that pointed out we could (should) address both QB and LT. They had the ability to get Williams but just didn't. So that decision is on Pace for sure. My personal belief is Leno & friends will benefit from the new coach, some changes in the offense and the TEs. But will it be enough to "win now"? Who knows. Maybe what I'm doing is wishing more than believing.

A lot of the outcome this year is going to hinge on the D once again having mean reversion (this time for the better). And I have a sneaky feeling this Johnson kid is an instant pro-bowler and scary ball hawk. We all have our dreams. More short fields would do wonders for Mitch, and I think be even more productive for Foles who is deadly in the red zone.

On Mitch and this obviously trumped up competition, I can't help but feel like Charlie Brown & Nagy is holding the football (Mitch) for us to kick again. It's Deja Vu all over again. "Nagy 3.0" here we come!
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I’m ready to move on and root for Mitch as unlikely as it seems. It feels like we need to pull an inside straight for this to work: our OL has to improve despite not improving the talent much and our QB has to somehow go from one of the worst in the NFL in 2019, to “pretty good” in 2020. Both things need to happen for this offense to be a middle tier group, which is all we should need.

I wouldn’t bet on an inside straight but Pace and Nagy did. It’s their jobs on the line, so I hope they hit it!! It could, it’s not impossible!!
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Hiphopopotamos wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:26 am FWIW - Hoge and Jahns confirmed on their Sunday podcast that while they didn't think either of the QBs 'won' the job in the 10 practices they were allowed to watch - they did confirm that Trubisky was improved in the areas Nagy had tasked him with improving in. He was much better about keeping his eyes downfield, keeping his footwork clean, and not abandoning perfectly good pockets.

Trubisky worked all off-season with QB guru Jeff Christiansan on his footwork and mechanics and at least in practice there was a little more consistency.

We'll see if any of that carries over to the games.

But I don't even care - I just want to see some Bears football.
The reason Mitch's footwork and fundamentals breakdown is because the game moves so fast around him. You can work with Mitch's footwork on an empty field all you want. But when the game starts and it's the real thing? It will always collapse for him.

At least, I think. I hope I am wrong and he is improved.
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Even if they thought Mitch had a stunning camp, it could help him to sit behind a more proven guy; first, to see a veteran's decision-making skills, and second, to light a fire under his ass.

A change of perspective would have done Mitch some good. Frankly, having the pressure off someone who is pretty much shellshocked from his previous season's experience would be useful.

This move may work out for Nagy, but if it doesn't, it could seal his fate --and Pace's--with the Bears.
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RichH55 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:33 am Personally I think they want Mitch to succeed and still believe in him (to an extent) - They wanted a viable other option and I think if there were a normal Preseason that Foles would have had more of a chance (I do think it was a true competition)
I don't understand why this is such a crazy concept to a lot of people.
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wab wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:20 am
RichH55 wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:33 am Personally I think they want Mitch to succeed and still believe in him (to an extent) - They wanted a viable other option and I think if there were a normal Preseason that Foles would have had more of a chance (I do think it was a true competition)
I don't understand why this is such a crazy concept to a lot of people.
Because we watched him play football in 2019, something many folks here seem to have erased from their memories.

I agree on the competition side, and said exactly so a few posts back. I think they meant to have a real competition but covid screwed up offseason completely so there really wasn't any chance for it. I don't believe they did that on purpose, just circumstances. So when I say it wasn't really a real competition, that's what I mean, not that they rigged it for Mitch.

The two camps appear to be grounded on either "Hey, Mitch played pretty good in 2018 and everything sucked in 2019 so disregard" or "Holy shit, Mitch was one of the worst QB's in the league last year, he regressed when he should have stepped forward, he appears to be a turd". There's a chicken/egg element to these competing thoughts. We don't know how much of 2019's disaster was BECAUSE of Mitch or how much he was a victim of what was happening around him - we just don't know. But when I saw Chase Daniel come in and operate our offense in a more efficient manner than Mitch, that tipped me towards believing that Mitch was a significant contributor to our problems.
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IE wrote: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:11 pm I'm kind of shocked that everyone seems to have forgotten that we almost all assumed Mitch would start the first game. Did we think that wouldn't come with "spin"?

This is just such a non-surprise and actually such a sure thing. It's so funny now that people are pretending there was some kind of competition.

I hope he got better for real - meaning gets better in games. 7 more days I'm dying.
I assumed the opposite. Obviously I misread the situation. Pace's trade for Foles was just a very traditionally "risk averse" football move whereas I read it as a clear signal about Mitch. I think the offseason called for more leveraged/high risk roll of the dice. Your mileage may vary, as they say...
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Otis Day wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:57 am Not surprised. I think it was a given from the start unless 10 shit the bed terribly in practice. With no real pressure on him (opposing Ds in pre season) it really wasn't a competition. Hope he plays well and rewards the powers that be.
best case scenario - Mitch is more motivated and focused since he had someone who has played at a high level of success putting some pressure on him

worst case scenario - Mitch is paranoid and constantly looking over his shoulder at Foles and fails by trying to be perfect instead of just playing the game

weird year and sure to be a weird NFL season ... no pre season games means they enter the regular season with question marks for sure simply because being good in practice does not always mean you can perform in games (see Mike Tomczak, the consummate practice hero and game day dud)

certainly hoping for the best, but they are the Bears so be ready for anything
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@wab assured me that he will be wearing his Leno shirt every game -- EVERY. GAME. WAB. -- so this season will end in a Super Bowl W for our beloved :headbang:
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dplank wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:36 am
wab wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:20 am
I don't understand why this is such a crazy concept to a lot of people.
Because we watched him play football in 2019, something many folks here seem to have erased from their memories.

I agree on the competition side, and said exactly so a few posts back. I think they meant to have a real competition but covid screwed up offseason completely so there really wasn't any chance for it. I don't believe they did that on purpose, just circumstances. So when I say it wasn't really a real competition, that's what I mean, not that they rigged it for Mitch.

The two camps appear to be grounded on either "Hey, Mitch played pretty good in 2018 and everything sucked in 2019 so disregard" or "Holy shit, Mitch was one of the worst QB's in the league last year, he regressed when he should have stepped forward, he appears to be a turd". There's a chicken/egg element to these competing thoughts. We don't know how much of 2019's disaster was BECAUSE of Mitch or how much he was a victim of what was happening around him - we just don't know. But when I saw Chase Daniel come in and operate our offense in a more efficient manner than Mitch, that tipped me towards believing that Mitch was a significant contributor to our problems.
I agree with your assessment of 10's performance (I might be harsher), and definitely on Daniel. Even though he had some limitations, it seemed like he clearly understood what was going on far more than 10 did. I think he could have probably won a few of those losses. But to what end? They had to figure out 10 as THE priority. Don't get me wrong - my mind was made up earlier (and I was even calling to see what we had in BRAY! lol) ... but Pace and Nagy are so vested they needed to exhaust all possibilities.

That's exactly the way I see this, Plank - nothing more than "fully exhausting the possibilities" (that Mitch would come out of some magical thinking NFL QB cocoon and light it up). The only thing worse for them professionally than losing with Mitch would have been giving up on him & having him go and win elsewhere.

I don't think there has been any real validation that Mitch "won" the offseason, but rather there just hasn't been any opportunity for him to prove he is what he is (cue Dennis Green). Reporting from camp is just homerville.

Mitch has actually never "won" a job since maybe HS. He couldn't win it in college across several years, and he never won it in Chicago. So I can only imagine the pressure on him on Sunday with a legit competitor on the bench and the real competition kicking off.

Whatever happens, I only care if the Bears win.
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I guess it was always going to be him unless he absolutely imploded in camp. I don't have faith in him solely based on his decision making and good defenses managing to fluster him. I hope he proves everyone wrong, puts together a great season and takes us to the playoffs. For now, I don't believe.
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First, I don't believe Trubisky will ever "get it" and become a real NFL QB. I never thought it was a good draft pick, and retrospect seems to confirm that.

However, here a a few reasons I could still be wrong...

As others have said, everyone knew he was super raw when he was drafted and would take some time to develop. He's been a starter for less than 3 years. Yes, for most of 2019 he was really bad, but he did have a pretty damn good season in 2018. It's not like he hasn't shown anything yet.

I think Mitch's biggest problem last year was NAGY. He absolutely sucked at game-planning and play-calling, but that wasn't the worst part. He was constantly in Mitch's ear, and you could see it paralyzing him, making him tentative and less confident. Mitch was at his best in 2018 when he just played the game and wasn't trying to overthink everything.

Mitch's attitude and demeanor clearly changed after he was benched against the Rams. He seemed to have a chip on his shoulder and seemed like he wasn't as worried about upsetting Nagy; and for the most part looked like a lot better QB to my eyes. The game against the Cowboys was DAMN impressive.

Regarding his work in the off season and potential improvement, one glaring issue was the breakdown in his throwing mechanics when he threw to his left, and if he TRULY fixed that, it could make a big difference.

...I'm doing my best to drink some kool-aid here...
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I think it should be clear that the Bears want Mitch to do well. Foles was always a 2 part plan. Push Mitch and have a solid backup in case Mitch fails. I know that as Bears fans we dont care who succeeds as long as someone does. Mitch was super raw coming in. Sadly because of how 2020 has played out our D will be good enuf to make us pick in the mid teens even if our QB shits the bed. Enter a bad draft position for picking a QB! Possibly a QB with again 1 year of actual college ball. Uh thats not much different than what we have now.

Its like a never ending cycle.

So here is hoping Mitch figures it out this year
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Richie wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:51 pm
Hiphopopotamos wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:26 am FWIW - Hoge and Jahns confirmed on their Sunday podcast that while they didn't think either of the QBs 'won' the job in the 10 practices they were allowed to watch - they did confirm that Trubisky was improved in the areas Nagy had tasked him with improving in. He was much better about keeping his eyes downfield, keeping his footwork clean, and not abandoning perfectly good pockets.

Trubisky worked all off-season with QB guru Jeff Christiansan on his footwork and mechanics and at least in practice there was a little more consistency.

We'll see if any of that carries over to the games.

But I don't even care - I just want to see some Bears football.
The reason Mitch's footwork and fundamentals breakdown is because the game moves so fast around him. You can work with Mitch's footwork on an empty field all you want. But when the game starts and it's the real thing? It will always collapse for him.

At least, I think. I hope I am wrong and he is improved.
The one thing that I think will help Mitch is repetition of the fundamentals. You can tell he is still "thinking" out there way too much. He needs to get the reps to where things like footwork and progression are habit instead of conscious thought.

Not saying he will ever get to that place and there have been many QB's who actually had good fundamentals also bomb out but that's what I think his issue is. Our porous line certainly hasn't helped his growth at all either.

All that said if it doesn't relate to performance on Sunday's then I'm all for selling him on Monday. Much like the Lovie years we have way too much talent on defense to be pissed away on shitty offensive play.
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jamus34 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:02 am
Richie wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:51 pm

The reason Mitch's footwork and fundamentals breakdown is because the game moves so fast around him. You can work with Mitch's footwork on an empty field all you want. But when the game starts and it's the real thing? It will always collapse for him.

At least, I think. I hope I am wrong and he is improved.
The one thing that I think will help Mitch is repetition of the fundamentals. You can tell he is still "thinking" out there way too much. He needs to get the reps to where things like footwork and progression are habit instead of conscious thought.
This is what I am curious to see as well. Mechanics are essential to elite QB play, especially when it comes to throwing accurately. It sounds like he's been drilling his footwork since February, and DeFilippo is making the QBs focus on it in practice as well. Is that enough time for it to become second nature? I don't know.

BEST THING we can do, offensively, is protect him and give him clean pockets so he can get some live reps under his belt with his new mechanics. If he's getting bombarded left and right, my concern is that he will revert back to what he has been doing mechanically lately (he was so much better as a rookie, mechanically, than he was last season).

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Just so we are clear, I'm gonna talk so much shit if Mitch lights it up this season.
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In a confluence of events, Lou Brock died this week and we got to watch Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson play last night.

I know we've beat this horse cadaver to a pulp, but trading up to get Mitch Trubisky is the worst Chicago sports deal since Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.
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wab wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:02 am Just so we are clear, I'm gonna talk so much shit if Mitch lights it up this season.
I really, really , really hope you have that opportunity.
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wab wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:02 am Just so we are clear, I'm gonna talk so much shit if Mitch lights it up this season.
And if he doesn't?
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G08 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:01 am
BEST THING we can do, offensively, is protect him and give him clean pockets so he can get some live reps under his belt with his new mechanics. If he's getting bombarded left and right, my concern is that he will revert back to what he has been doing mechanically lately (he was so much better as a rookie, mechanically, than he was last season).
Hence why I wanted a professional grade LT on this team this offseason G08. And why now that Trubisky "won" the job in a whopping 10 practice sessions (seems clear this was always going to happen) that Pace's offseason plan was not great. A lot of things all have to go right for this to work, here's hoping....
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