Offensive Line

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

With all the Allen Robinson contract talk, it kind of occured to me, that the Bears are kind of in a pickle with the OL and one may have an impact on the other.

The Bears OL looked like a new unit on Sunday (yes, it's one game, but they were remarkably better than they were in game 1 last season). If they continue to improve, it might be hard to keep them together, especially if the Bears bring back A-Rob.

Right now, the Bears have 4 pending FA's in Ifedi, Bars, Coward, and Spriggs - although Bars is an ERFA. That's a starting player and all 4 backups.

Ifedi is surely going to look for a long term deal, especially if he plays well. Factor in that if Robinson is to be resigned, one or both of the OT's might have to be cut for monetary reasons.

It could be a real problem.
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

I'm not worried about the backups.

But this is why I was really unhappy they ignored interior line in the draft.
Even if the "Ifedi to G" plan were to work, you still run a big risk that someone else outbids you afterwards...and then what?
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
User avatar
spudbear
MVP
Posts: 1225
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:32 pm
Has thanked: 249 times
Been thanked: 140 times

Bars, Coward and Spriggs are pretty much chump change. I thought that Bars may had had a chance to start this season but it still looks like he's in development. If Ifedi is the real deal then they'll have to pay him to keep him, though I doubt he'll command an upper echelon contract. Daniels is due a big contract, if he continues to improve, in 2022 so hopefully the Bears can reap some of his relatively inexpensive play.

It's the OT's that are the big question mark. Does Ifedi help rejuvenate Massie? Is Massie about out of gas regardless? He's 31 so maybe a few good years left. Maybe. Leno is still Leno. He doesn't pass my eye test as an above average LT yet he gets paid as one and he gets good grades from the folks who grade OL play. So what do I know?

I do know there was a clamor at the end of last season to somehow replace Leno and Massie but their contracts did not make that feasible. Or maybe that was dPlank hollering. :o
San Francisco has always been my favorite booing city. I don't mean the people boo louder or longer, but there is a very special intimacy. Music, that's what it is to me. One time in Kezar Stadium they gave me a standing boo.

George Halas
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

I do know there was a clamor at the end of last season to somehow replace Leno and Massie but their contracts did not make that feasible. Or maybe that was dPlank hollering. :o
Next season offloading them is easier as there is minimal dead money. Massie is the most likely to be replaced. Leno probably has one more year.
User avatar
The Cooler King
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5005
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 1203 times
Been thanked: 346 times

wab wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:19 pm
I do know there was a clamor at the end of last season to somehow replace Leno and Massie but their contracts did not make that feasible. Or maybe that was dPlank hollering. :o
Next season offloading them is easier as there is minimal dead money. Massie is the most likely to be replaced. Leno probably has one more year.
I think the dead money thing is overrated honestly. Leno for instance, his dead money only goes down about 2m each year, but whether that money hits all at once in 2020 or spread over multiple years its a sunk cap cost and it's timing generally isn't terribly consequential.

Meanwhile, in 2020 and 2021 he has base salaries of 7.9m and 8.9m. Those aren't sunk costs. You really have to figure out the value of the additional games played of course, but that's your cap savings right there.

It's a pretty classic penny wise, dollar foolish example, IMO. Importantly you have to remember to think about the cap as a multi year figure that can roll forward.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 759 times

It's a concern, but I think they are developing Hambright and Simmons as well. We also have options in the draft as, if the line continues to play well this season, I'm good with letting Castillo identify some day 3 picks to bring into the building.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12026
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1202 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

G08 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm It's a concern, but I think they are developing Hambright and Simmons as well. We also have options in the draft as, if the line continues to play well this season, I'm good with letting Castillo identify some day 3 picks to bring into the building.
Counting on developing late round picks is fraught with peril and typically doesn't pan out. We need to draft talent on the OL, there's a reason why guys like Whitehair and Daniels are our best OL, Pace actually spent 2nd round draft capital on them both! Of course they are developing Hambright and Simmons, that's why they are still on the team! But counting on that is fools gold, you need a better plan.

Now that the lost draft capital from the Mack deal is behind us we finally have a full quiver of picks in the top 100 going forward - we need to prioritize T with one of those picks this year, preferably a 1st as T is one of those positions that typically need to be drafted high to get a good one. Leno is the exception, not the rule, as a 7th rounder that turned into a solid NFL starter.

But for now, I'm still basking in the sun of competent OL play on Sunday. We rarely saw that last year, it was great to see and I'm starting to have a little hope that Castillo is the answer for us! Sometimes just simplifying things and letting your guys play is all you need!
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

dplank wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm It's a concern, but I think they are developing Hambright and Simmons as well. We also have options in the draft as, if the line continues to play well this season, I'm good with letting Castillo identify some day 3 picks to bring into the building.
Counting on developing late round picks is fraught with peril and typically doesn't pan out. We need to draft talent on the OL, there's a reason why guys like Whitehair and Daniels are our best OL, Pace actually spent 2nd round draft capital on them both! Of course they are developing Hambright and Simmons, that's why they are still on the team! But counting on that is fools gold, you need a better plan.

Now that the lost draft capital from the Mack deal is behind us we finally have a full quiver of picks in the top 100 going forward - we need to prioritize T with one of those picks this year, preferably a 1st as T is one of those positions that typically need to be drafted high to get a good one. Leno is the exception, not the rule, as a 7th rounder that turned into a solid NFL starter.

But for now, I'm still basking in the sun of competent OL play on Sunday. We rarely saw that last year, it was great to see and I'm starting to have a little hope that Castillo is the answer for us! Sometimes just simplifying things and letting your guys play is all you need!
I don't think the Bears can count on late round and undrafted guys. One, maybe two could pan out, but they are going to have to invest picks. Massie and Leno are going to get expensive after this season, and there's not much in the pipeline.

But yes, I'm happy that the OL played well. The Detroit DL isn't terrible . Mitch had time and there were running lanes. That was nice to see.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 759 times

dplank wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm
G08 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:57 pm It's a concern, but I think they are developing Hambright and Simmons as well. We also have options in the draft as, if the line continues to play well this season, I'm good with letting Castillo identify some day 3 picks to bring into the building.
Counting on developing late round picks is fraught with peril and typically doesn't pan out. We need to draft talent on the OL, there's a reason why guys like Whitehair and Daniels are our best OL, Pace actually spent 2nd round draft capital on them both! Of course they are developing Hambright and Simmons, that's why they are still on the team! But counting on that is fools gold, you need a better plan.

Now that the lost draft capital from the Mack deal is behind us we finally have a full quiver of picks in the top 100 going forward - we need to prioritize T with one of those picks this year, preferably a 1st as T is one of those positions that typically need to be drafted high to get a good one. Leno is the exception, not the rule, as a 7th rounder that turned into a solid NFL starter.

But for now, I'm still basking in the sun of competent OL play on Sunday. We rarely saw that last year, it was great to see and I'm starting to have a little hope that Castillo is the answer for us! Sometimes just simplifying things and letting your guys play is all you need!
My point is options will be there, Castillo has a track record of developing late-round and undrafted offensive linemen.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Z Bear
MVP
Posts: 1656
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:45 am
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 141 times

With all of the news of the cap dropping next year it will not be hard to replace people as there will be an above average amount of free agents. Most teams already either have cap commitments over $175M or have a ton of pending free agents like the Bears. You are going to see a lot of veteran minimum free agent deals as there is not much cap room to sign big money contracts.
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12500
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am
Location: Plymouth, MI
Has thanked: 523 times
Been thanked: 700 times
Contact:

A new position coach in Castillo, a vet like Ifedi (plugging a hole in a leaky boat is always good), and also having some nice competent TEs in line ... those things can add up to make quite a difference.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

IE wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:27 am A new position coach in Castillo, a vet like Ifedi (plugging a hole in a leaky boat is always good), and also having some nice competent TEs in line ... those things can add up to make quite a difference.
Yep - and some of those vets weren't as bad as they looked last year
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

https://sportsmockery.com/2020/09/james ... -his-fill/

This has some good film break down of Daniels.
User avatar
Bearfanuk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:48 am
Location: England
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Week 1/2 leaves a whole lot of football time to change a lot and answer a lot.

Between now and then A back up OL could come in and blow us away answering a question ..the new RG could see a drop off in production after week 3 when tape is out leaving more.

I’m impressed but too early to call anyone cut or crown anyone etc
Have a great day
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 759 times

Arkansasbear wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:29 pm https://sportsmockery.com/2020/09/james ... -his-fill/

This has some good film break down of Daniels.
Dude, thanks for sharing!
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12026
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1202 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

RichH55 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:57 am
IE wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:27 am A new position coach in Castillo, a vet like Ifedi (plugging a hole in a leaky boat is always good), and also having some nice competent TEs in line ... those things can add up to make quite a difference.
Yep - and some of those vets weren't as bad as they looked last year
Right, both Massie and Leno had bad years even by their own standards. Cautiously optimistic here.
User avatar
HisRoyalSweetness
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5901
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1716 times

Just watched 'The Tape Never Lies' breakdown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoX82M6k6s) and there's a lot of good stuff from Ifedi. If he keeps playing like that Pace will regret not signing him to a longer contract at a reasonable price. All three interior lineman looked really good.

The tackles on the other hand were somewhat less impressive, although Massie was solid enough. I'm sorry to have to report that @wab's favourite Bear (we all know how much you love him ;) ) was very much the weak link in Detroit.

If Trubisky succeeds in turning things around this year then that first round pick almost has to be used on an OT.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

Quite a few starter talent o lineman will be cut this offseason if the cap drops as much as expected, so the talent pool will be there in FA to fill holes.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12026
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1202 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

southdakbearfan wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am Quite a few starter talent o lineman will be cut this offseason if the cap drops as much as expected, so the talent pool will be there in FA to fill holes.
We won’t have any cap room for this though, we must draft a T high IMO.
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

dplank wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:41 am
southdakbearfan wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:54 am Quite a few starter talent o lineman will be cut this offseason if the cap drops as much as expected, so the talent pool will be there in FA to fill holes.
We won’t have any cap room for this though, we must draft a T high IMO.
Probably true on Tackle - The sturm and drang about not being able to replace Ifedi seems misplaced to me. Guards basically grow on trees.

One thing to look for (and I did not look for it) : Potential former OL that Castillo coached elsewhere in the league. Most teams will be in Cap crisis and those guys might very well be looking for a 1 year deal to wait out the bad Cap - And playing in a known system for a known coach will be appealing
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

draft a T high? you mean like in the 6th instead of the 7th?
Image
RichH55
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7942
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Has thanked: 511 times
Been thanked: 598 times

RustyTrubisky wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:56 pm draft a T high? you mean like in the 6th instead of the 7th?
Boom
User avatar
HisRoyalSweetness
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5901
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1716 times

PFF grades for what they're worth:

Leno: 63.4
Daniels: 55.6
Whitehair: 64.0
Ifedi: 61.6
Massie: 75.7

I must admit I'm surprised they're so low, especially Daniels. Then again PFF's grades are often a mystery.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12026
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1202 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:00 pm PFF grades for what they're worth:

Leno: 63.4
Daniels: 55.6
Whitehair: 64.0
Ifedi: 61.6
Massie: 75.7

I must admit I'm surprised they're so low, especially Daniels. Then again PFF's grades are often a mystery.
I don’t value it much. IMO the line should be primarily graded as a unit. Coaches / GMs need individual grades but for a different purpose. As fans, we should just focus on the entire unit performance and what I saw was quite good! We were near the top of the league in yards per rushing attempt and Mitch had more time than normal when dropping back.

The worst thing someone can do is take PFF grades and try to add them up for a unit grade, that’s not how OL works.
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

RichH55 wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:56 pm
RustyTrubisky wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:56 pm draft a T high? you mean like in the 6th instead of the 7th?
Boom
I think there is an excellent chance we go OT in the first. Depending on whose on the board. But given that 31 names will be called already, there might not be an OT in Pace’s “bundle” of players, in which case we may go ILB to find Danny’s replacement.
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

The Bears need an OT. Jalen Mayfield was a dude I was keeping an eye on. But with him opting back into school, I honestly don't know what that means for him. He could still declare again I suppose.

Cole Van Lanen is another dude.
User avatar
Arkansasbear
Head Coach
Posts: 4817
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:41 am
Has thanked: 457 times
Been thanked: 655 times

User avatar
Bearfanuk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:48 am
Location: England
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

If he carries this one no way we bring him back at RG. Teams will pay good money for that type of play.
Have a great day
cblaz11
MVP
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 111 times

I think there were two sides coming into this season in regards to the oline.

A. People wanted both OTs replaced

B. People felt we would see improvement from
Leno and Massie with upgraded coaching

It’s only two games, but as of now it’s looking like the ones in the B group were correct. Massie and Leno have played pretty well to start the season.
User avatar
dplank
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12026
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am
Has thanked: 1202 times
Been thanked: 2138 times

cblaz11 wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:43 am I think there were two sides coming into this season in regards to the oline.

A. People wanted both OTs replaced

B. People felt we would see improvement from
Leno and Massie with upgraded coaching

It’s only two games, but as of now it’s looking like the ones in the B group were correct. Massie and Leno have played pretty well to start the season.
Agreed, they have impressed big time. I was in group A, although not one thought we’d replace BOTH, I argued we should replace one with a high end FA to stabilize things.

Pace should extend Ifedi now and save some cash.

But these guys are playing well! I did not believe a simple coaching change would have this impact, was wrong on that. I’d eat a plate of crow but I’m on a diet.
Post Reply