Rd5, P173: WR Darnell Mooney, Tulane

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makaur
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......and one more thing boys.

Just saw that Jerry Angelo Jr. just signed Trevor Davis and Tedd Ginn Jr. Davis ran a 4.42 forty and Ginn Jr. ran a 4.28. Both are considered "return specialists," but both play WR. Mooney runs a 4.38, a whopping .04 faster than Davis and a full .1 slower than Ginn Jr.

What's my point? Again, fast guys are always available....but without someone blocking for them, who cares.
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makaur wrote:B) Saying someone who is the second best at a position group that is awful is kind of like saying, "Hey, that fart smelled a lot better than the first one!"
:shock:

:rofl:
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makaur wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:21 pm ......and one more thing boys.

Just saw that Jerry Angelo Jr. just signed Trevor Davis and Tedd Ginn Jr. Davis ran a 4.42 forty and Ginn Jr. ran a 4.28. Both are considered "return specialists," but both play WR. Mooney runs a 4.38, a whopping .04 faster than Davis and a full .1 slower than Ginn Jr.

What's my point? Again, fast guys are always available....but without someone blocking for them, who cares.
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Makur, a couple of things, and I'm done with this.

First, if you think the Chiefs are the same team without Tyreek Hill as they are with him (as you implied), you're not dealing in reality.

Second, I asked this before, but you didn't answer. Aside from the Williams trade, what specifically would you have done this offseason (in the draft or otherwise) to address the OL? Who would you have taken in the fifth or sixth rounds to fix our OL if we didn't take Mooney? The second? Let us all know so that we can see how brilliant your scheme to fix the Bears is. Don't be a poser. Do you think the Mack deal was a good one? I mean we gave up two first rounders that could have been used on offensive linemen. What SPECIFICALLY would you have done?
Last edited by Yogi da Bear on Fri May 01, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Well... Makaur is back.
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The place to complain about lack of OL is definitely not in the Mooney thread

Position doesn't really matter once you get to late Round 5

Pick good football players - Most of the guys at the point will never see a 2nd contract
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Nice start for Mooney to his NFL career.

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Dude’s been pretty good
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Definitely has impressed his first two weeks. And finally a Bears WR getting separation! That was supposed to be one of the strengths of this scheme I thought and we haven't really seen it actually happen. Looking like this kid was a steal.
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I think Mooney has been a big surprise. I didnt think much of the pick. He kind of has a Johnny Knox vibe. Smaller, runs hard, and does the little things. But he isn't the Steve Smith small guy who can play like a big guy, or the Antonio's brown small guy who is a human joy stick. (I know both them could do it all just using examples.)
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Watching the Seahawks last night, I see a lot of similarities between Mooney and Tyler Lockett.
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Mooney was wiiiiiiide open late against the Falcons and Foles got the ball too him way too late. Should have been 6, but that's beside the point,

Kid looks good!
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wab wrote: Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:22 am Watching the Seahawks last night, I see a lot of similarities between Mooney and Tyler Lockett.
I see it a lot too, similar athletic profile / metrics.

I do not think he has that elite, Tyreek Hill speed, though. Then again, who does?
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9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

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G08 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:25 am
that's pretty sweet

think what his numbers would be if he played in a real NFL offense
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Well, he's benefitted a lot from coming to a team with just 1 solid receiver and very little speed (until this year, after he'd already established himself). On many teams, he'd be doing far less as a WR3 or 4.

That said, it was still a successful pick and much better than I expected.
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Sorry I've been gone for the past 4 years. I wanted to catch up on some offseason stuff so I came here hoping that I still had an account but when I logged in, I was notified of this thread.

Wow...the more things change, the more they stay the same. So when I was here last, Ryan Pace was the GM and I was ripping him for drafting/signing/trading fast players like Mooney as opposed to fixing the problems on the offensive line. Here we are four years later and where are we? Pace deservedly received his long over due pink slip and was replaced with a GM who, wow, for the most part has ignored the OL the past few years, which is odd considering that he played OL at Boston College....and during a time when they were a pretty good team. Last year he drafted a RT in the first round. Not bad, but what about the rest of the positions? More importantly, what about LT, which is the most important non-QB position on the field when you have a right handed QB? Oh, okay, he previously drafted a FCS player in the 5th round who is better suited to play Guard at this level instead of drafting a legit 6'6" or 6'7" player with the kind of wingspan to adequately battle off speed rushers. The interior of the OL has been a swinging gate so I'm not going to even bother reading responses of me being critical there.

But....but....but....this is a thread about Mooney! I don't give a flying F what topic this thread is about, especially with Mooney now gone and replaced with an aging Keenan Allen. However, the point is still valid as I said in a previous response, if you don't have an offensive line, you don't have an offense so who cares how fast your players are. Saying that, how many of you are happy with the offensive output the past few seasons? I said back then (pre-Justin Fields I might add) that the offensive line was hot garbage and here we are. Since my last comment, the Bears have flat out sucked a giant hairy testicle when it comes to offensive production. Yes Justin Fields hasn't been all that but re-watch the last game of the '23 season against that pile of vomit up north, especially the 2nd half, and try to convince yourself that Justin Fields is the problem. If you're response is anything other than the OL needs to be fixed, I don't know what Bears team some of you are watching.

So this offseason, Poles has signed Ryan Bates (G) and Coleman Shelton (C) to patch some holes. Not bad, that definitely removes the need to draft someone at those spots (at least for the 2024 season). The next step is to obviously drop & flush the turds who were there before if they haven't already. Now, about that critical LT spot. Reading other threads, I see Caleb Williams is high on the list of some of you. Maybe even some Jayden Daniels love going on. Have any of you ever heard of Joe Alt? LT from Notre Dame, a 6'8" mountain of a human being, crazy athletic, loves contact, and is the son of former KC Chiefs All-Pro John Alt. He will not be there at #9 and he is absolutely worth taking at #1. For those who are concerned that the Bears will lose out on QB if Poles does that and then trades #9 for more later picks, yeah, and your point would be? As I've said and will continue to say, if you don't have an offensive line, then you don't have an offense....and offensive line is 5 positions. Not one, not two....FIVE. Fix the offensive line and I promise you, points will be scored and games will be won regardless of who they have under center.

However, there is a small matter that I must now address...
Yogi da Bear wrote: Thu Apr 30, 2020 9:32 pmMakur, a couple of things, and I'm done with this.

First, if you think the Chiefs are the same team without Tyreek Hill as they are with him (as you implied), you're not dealing in reality.

Second, I asked this before, but you didn't answer. Aside from the Williams trade, what specifically would you have done this offseason (in the draft or otherwise) to address the OL? Who would you have taken in the fifth or sixth rounds to fix our OL if we didn't take Mooney? The second? Let us all know so that we can see how brilliant your scheme to fix the Bears is. Don't be a poser. Do you think the Mack deal was a good one? I mean we gave up two first rounders that could have been used on offensive linemen. What SPECIFICALLY would you have done?
I hope you're still around. Your feeble attempt of a response right there didn't age very well did it?

1a) The Chiefs have won the Super Bowl in both seasons since they traded Tyreek Hill. Obviously, that wasn't known by either of us at the time but the fact that they did that in both seasons AFTER trading Hill away, wow, re-reading what you wrote there must make you feel like retracting a few words right about now doesn't it? Especially with that comment at the end of the first sentence there....that I'm not dealing in reality. Kindly explain to me what the Dolphins have accomplished with Hill that the Chiefs didn't or haven't? Then kindly explain to me the difference between the two teams. I've got it! One of them is coached by a former OL coach who understands the game of football and the other is coached by a guy who is really creative at play calling but when it comes to the intangibles of the game, he's not there yet....but yeah, it was Tyreek Hill alone that allowed the Chiefs to win that Super Bowl after the 2019 season. :rofl:

1b) The point I was making (years ago) was that although Tyreek Hill's speed is nice to have, it's not the reason why the Chiefs were winning with him....and the proof is in the irrefutable fact that they've won more without him than they did with him. However, I'm not the person who brought up the Chiefs. Go back and re-read to see for yourself, someone else did. I simply responded that speed isn't the only reason why the Chiefs win, which turned out to be a billion percent true this past season.

2) Why would I have had to "specifically" tell you what I would have done? It couldn't be more obvious from my previous statements.....FIX THE GOD DAMN MOTHERF*CKING OFFENSIVE LINE!!!!!!!!!!! Is it that hard to figure out? Do I need to use smaller words? The offensive line has sucked for years and when I say "sucked," we're talking high-end escort level of sucking, like a golf ball through a garden hose level of sucktitude. I saw enough of Cody Whitehair that I wanted him gone back then. It was LONG overdue cutting that turd from the roster. Yes, there are problems all over but the primary problem has been the offensive line and the GM's did next to nothing to even address let alone fix the issues. It goes well beyond just replacing players but if you don't even start there, then I don't even know what to tell you. There, is that a "brilliant enough scheme" for you? Keep hammering away at the OL until the problems are fixed and the Bears will score those important little things that are needed to win games called POINTS!!!!

3) If you haven't picked up on it by now, you can tell that I don't really give a sh*t about speed when other critical areas of the team have needs. Re-reading some of the previous posts in this thread, you seem to be enamored by speed and thought that drafting Mooney was all the Bears needed. Kindly provide some stats of Mooney's, when he was in a Bears uniform, to help convince me that drafting him was much better than fixing the OL. I'll wait....but in the meantime, just for reference....Jerry Rice, Keenan Allen, and Anquan Boldin all ran a 4.71....Chris Carter ran a 4.63. It's not always about straight line speed.

You won't find any good stats for Mooney so don't bother. In fact, watch some All-22 film of the Bears with Mooney and you will see, as you will with others, the problems with the Bears the past several years wasn't that they don't have guys who can get open....the problem is the QBs didn't have enough time to set their feet and go through their reads to see that they were open. That's called, "We need to fix the offensive line." Here we are, four years later, and although I'm more optimistic now compared to back then with the recent moves, we will only see it when we see it. Until then, it's still a problem that dumping Fields then drafting Caleb Williams won't fix.

...and here it is, your moment of Zen.
makaur wrote: Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:06 am Fix the OL or we will keep losing to the Packers.
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Damn long time no see makaur. Now where is Gaba?
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makaur wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:50 pm Have any of you ever heard of Joe Alt?
No, I never have. He's a football player, I take it? Is he any good?
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makaur wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:50 pm Sorry I've been gone for the past 4 years. I wanted to catch up on some offseason stuff so I came here hoping that I still had an account but when I logged in, I was notified of this thread...
Good to see you back I guess, but a rather aggressive post and one raking up a discussion from several years ago is unlikely to endear you to folks around here. Might I suggest toning it down a touch? You'll find plenty of support for building both offensive and defensive lines.

Regarding Poles and the O-line, some of his signings haven't panned out and there's still work to be done but he hasn't completely ignored it. Year 1 was a tear down and he was without a first round pick but he engineered several trade downs and threw multiple late round picks at the OL hoping to unearth a diamond in the rough. The rebuild only began last offseason though when he brought in two new starters, paying significant money to Nate Davis who was considered one of the top OGs available in free agency and then spending the 10th overall pick on Wright.

Davis had to deal with his mother being ill and sadly passing away and then with injury and he didn't perform to expectations. We don't know if his mother was ill prior to him being signed and therefore whether the Bears would have been aware that this might be an issue for the player. Hopefully he will perform much better this year. Wright showed promise as a rookie although personally I didn't think he was as good as some make out and he has to cut down on penalties. It's reasonable to expect him to improve in his second year and he could well be a long-term fixture on the team.

Braxton Jones may have been drafted in the 5th round but he's not awful. He struggled mightily against bull rushes and power moves as a rookie but showed improvement in that regard last season. LT is certainly a position Poles could upgrade through this year's draft but it's also true that Jones may improve further.

The interior of the line has a stud in Jenkins although he was drafted by Pace. If you watch the All-22 he's head and shoulders above his teammates on the O-line and doesn't get the wider recognition he deserves. Poles would do well to work out an extension for him before he hits free agency next year.

This offseason Poles has made moves to upgrade at center by acquiring Bates and Shelton. Neither move precludes him drafting a center. At the very least Bates will provide decent backup for all the IOL positions.

It's still early days for Poles. We'll have a better handle on how the O-line looks when the season starts and how effective his moves have been.

However, this is a thread about Mooney. He was a good pick up for a 5th round pick. He's earned a nice payday albeit elsewhere. Most 5th round picks don't achieve that. When you get to Day 2 of the draft it's all about identifying players at any position who can contribute because many don't even make the roster and those that do often don't contribute much.

Not one player drafted after Mooney has made a Pro Bowl including 14 offensive linemen so it's not as if by picking him the Bears missed out on a significant chance to upgrade their O-line instead.
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Welcome back Mak.
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Heinz D. wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:06 pm
makaur wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:50 pm Have any of you ever heard of Joe Alt?
No, I never have. He's a football player, I take it? Is he any good?
sounds to me like a bad pseudonym
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Heinz D. wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:06 pm
makaur wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 3:50 pm Have any of you ever heard of Joe Alt?
No, I never have. He's a football player, I take it? Is he any good?
Surefire best LT in the draft and it's not even close. Fashanu from Penn State is pretty good but he's nowhere close to as good as Alt.

The Bears don't have a legit LT and with the moves they've made this offseason, I would take Alt over one of these horribly over rated QB's to solidify the OL...but trading Fields basically made it impossible to trade either pick back now without taking a QB at either #1 or #9.
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makaur wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:08 pm The Bears don't have a legit LT and with the moves they've made this offseason, I would take Alt over one of these horribly over rated QB's to solidify the OL...but trading Fields basically made it impossible to trade either pick back now without taking a QB at either #1 or #9.
They're taking a QB at #1. With #9? indications are it will be Dallas Turner, if he's there. I think Verse would be the next option...with Alt or Fashanu trailing afterwards.

As to the Bears not CURRENTLY having a "legit LT", I'd suggest you watch film. You might change your mind about that assertion--provided you come into it all with an open one...
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:14 pm Good to see you back I guess, but a rather aggressive post and one raking up a discussion from several years ago is unlikely to endear you to folks around here. Might I suggest toning it down a touch?
Ask any of the folks who were from the old webway monsters boards and they'll tell you....mess with me and you're going to get a response, and I really don't care if you like the content of the message or not. You don't have to agree with me...but state your case, provide a reason why you disagree with me and the conversation will be cordial. When someone challenges me, it will do you better to warn them of what is coming than it is to ask me to tone it down (might want to try doing that to the person I was responding to).

Yes this is a bit old but as I said, I logged in and was notified of that response. So I responded. Isn't it beautiful how absolutely correct I was in everything that I said back then? My favorite is the part about the Chiefs.

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:14 pmRegarding Poles and the O-line
I'm aware of what Poles has done, but I said he has largely ignored the OL (compared to Pace who completely and totally ignored the OL). Braxton whatshisname is not a NFL LT. He came from a bad FCS program and has played just about how you would expect someone would who didn't play against elite college competition. He's not going to magically grow taller nor will his arms get longer so why are we wasting our time with him? If he gained 10-15 pounds of good weight, he could be a solid Guard but a LT in the NFL???? I'll believe it when I see it.

Jenkins is a stud? Um, has he played a full season yet without tearing his vajay-jay? Rack that up as another Pace disaster. Anyone with eyeballs read Jenkins' injury reports, that's why every other team avoided him.

I'm mostly critical of the interior but the entire OL has been a disaster. I don't know how you could be a NFL GM and go into a season with those OL's the past few seasons and think you're doing a good job. The moves he's made since free agency opened up give me a bit of optimism though but if he drafted Joe Alt at #1 instead of bust to be Caleb Williams, I would be a lot more confident going forward. The Bears should not have traded Justin Fields and then handed over a good OL to whichever QB they draft. The only winner in that trade is Fields, who will now finally get to know what it's like to set his feet and go through his reads before a defender tries to kill him.

HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Fri Mar 15, 2024 8:14 pmThis offseason Poles has made moves to upgrade at center by acquiring Bates and Shelton. Neither move precludes him drafting a center. At the very least Bates will provide decent backup for all the IOL positions.
I already discussed that....but Bates will be starting. You don't make the move they made for him if he's going to be a backup. If he is a backup, then there you have it...bad move. Shelton, I don't know much about him but anything is better at Center than what the Bears have had over the past 20 years....and here's some more fun facts on my history, I hated the undersized swinging gate known as Olin Kreutz. He had more fight in him in the locker room against his own teammates than he did on the field against his opponents.

If you don't want to go back and read all of the previous posts, the point I was making was that Pace moved up and wasted more picks by drafting Mooney, a really fast skill guy, when the OL was a major need. They had more picks but they traded those away to move up for a player who most likely would have been there when they were next on the clock. Yes, the Bears will always need a speedy receiver but if the OL consistently looks like they're trying out to be a matador instead of a NFL offensive lineman, who cares how fast our players are? I was complaining back then.....four years ago....about how bad the OL was. Anyone who disagreed back then or now, answer me this....are you happy with the offensive output since? Are you happy with the 0-8 record against Green Bay? Are you happy about losing season after losing season? Are you happy with an offense that constantly ranks near the bottom? It's because of the offensive line. When you ignore the offensive line, you won't have an offense.

I'm tired of the Bears not having an offense....and I'm really sick and f*cking tired of losing to the Packers.
Last edited by makaur on Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Heinz D. wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:25 pm
makaur wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:08 pm The Bears don't have a legit LT and with the moves they've made this offseason, I would take Alt over one of these horribly over rated QB's to solidify the OL...but trading Fields basically made it impossible to trade either pick back now without taking a QB at either #1 or #9.
They're taking a QB at #1. With #9? indications are it will be Dallas Turner, if he's there. I think Verse would be the next option...with Alt or Fashanu trailing afterwards.

As to the Bears not CURRENTLY having a "legit LT", I'd suggest you watch film. You might change your mind about that assertion--provided you come into it all with an open one...
Trading Fields guaranteed they are not only taking a QB....but it will be most likely be Caleb Williams.

As for your suggestion....I have. I've watched quite a bit of film and I'm not impressed with what's his name. He's doesn't have the length of legit NFL tackles and he doesn't provide much push on run plays, which I believe is because he's in one on one matchups against a speedier player. As I said just now, he should gain some weight and try Guard because he's not a very good tackle.

As far as Dallas Turner, the problem I have with that is....he's just another Alabama guy and I'm not sure the Bears need another LB right now. They need a LT...and Alt won't be there at #9 and Fashanu might not either. What I do know is Alt will definitely be there at #1 and a QB will definitely be there at #9 (if you can't tell, I'm not very high on Caleb Williams).
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makaur wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:50 pmWhat I do know is Alt will definitely be there at #1 and a QB will definitely be there at #9 (if you can't tell, I'm not very high on Caleb Williams).
What's your beef with Williams?
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I'm a Braxton Jones stan, but if they take a tackle at 9, I won't shake my fist at the sky.
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wab wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:43 am I'm a Braxton Jones stan, but if they take a tackle at 9, I won't shake my fist at the sky.
Likewise, and I think jones could play guard, or net a good draft pick.
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