Update: Carson Wentz traded to Colts

[wab]

Per Glazer: Bears called about Wentz but never actually made an offer. Eagles were leaking everything they could to get the Colts to up their offer.

[Otis Day]

Mooney, Wims, Ridley, Patterson, Miller, Kmet, Graham, Horsted, Holtz. TEs and WRs not named Allen Robinson who are under contract. Honestly, not an impressive group. What makes a QB say, "Yea, I want to throw to those guys." The current OL, while improved as the year went on, not a top unit.

Montgomery = stud.

Cohen? Coming off injury, who the hell knows how he will perform and Nagy really needs to use him better.

You could say there is potential in these skill players, but you could also say they are avg at best (as a whole).

I don't blame players who don't want to play for certain teams. Don't blame Wentz at all and don't blame Pace for not pulling it off. Not a good fit, so lets move along.

[dplank]

I'm already resigned to what's going to happen next. Pace is going to trade up in the draft for a QB not named Trevor Lawrence, and that QB will fail miserably. We will have simultaneously fucked ourselves both ways, we lose draft capital/picks and we are no better off at the QB position. I prefer a single fucking...take the picks but give me a real QB in return.

[thunderspirit]

I mean, it's really not complicated. I think it's as simple as:
1 - The Bears didn't think it was worth giving up a bunch of pics for Wentz
2 - Wentz wanted to play in a dome for a guy that was his coach in essentially a MVP season

There's no need to create a smoking gun. It's weird.

There isn't a need, but there's totally a tendency to do so.

[docc]

From Wentz he came..goodbye

[G08]

From Wentz he came..goodbye

I'm glad this is over with; now I have no fucking idea what Pace/Nagy are going to do.

[Moriarty]

I mean, it's really not complicated. I think it's as simple as:
1 - The Bears didn't think it was worth giving up a bunch of pics for Wentz
2 - Wentz wanted to play in a dome for a guy that was his coach in essentially a MVP season

There's no need to create a smoking gun. It's weird.

There isn't a need, but there's totally a tendency to do so.

What complications or conspiracy theory is being created and by whom?

Everything I see completely falls under the heading of those 2 points

• Wentz preferred to be in Indy
• Indy offered more

[thunderspirit]

Or offered, period.

[Rusty Trombagent]

A thing i've been thinking about today is, Matt Nagy and Doug Pederson are good friends, and you really have to think that if they're doing their due diligence on Wentz they're consulting him. And like, presumably at this point Doug fucking DESPISES Wentz. BUT all rumours point to the bears still actively pursuing Wentz anyway.

So my worry is this: is Doug Pederson a bad friend?

I do believe the bears did their due diligence on wentz, and that had to involve nagy talking to pederson. So completely unsurprising that the bears never actually made an offer.

[crueltyabc]

I think it’s a good sign that the cost was so low and the QB market isn’t a bidding war yet

[Wounded Bear]

I’m happy for any QB who escapes a franchise that puts little value on offensive linemen, not to mention a lame duck coach and lame duck GM.

The McCaskeys in their typical lack of wisdom is allowing a lame duck administration pick a QB for the next administration, setting up the new QB and new administration for failure (or at the very least, less than optimal synergy).

Bravo McCaskeys, you manged to put the cart in front of the horse once again.

[spudbear]

It seems like Philly is all in for Hurts. Or are they? Do they have the cap space to go after one of the mid-tier QB's that Pace may be considering? They will need someone to pair with Hurts, maybe a Foles-like backup who can mentor Hurts and fill in on emergency. Fitzmagic?

The Iggles seem like a team similar to the Bears: strong D, holes in the OL, some shaky playmakers. Unlike Philly the Bears still have their coach and starting QB. For now. Philly decided to cut bait and move on from their HC and QB, something many Bears fans were wanting. Pederson won the freaking SB for them yet they decided he was not good enough. Is Nagy good enough?

[RichH55]

It seems like Philly is all in for Hurts. Or are they? Do they have the cap space to go after one of the mid-tier QB's that Pace may be considering? They will need someone to pair with Hurts, maybe a Foles-like backup who can mentor Hurts and fill in on emergency. Fitzmagic?

The Iggles seem like a team similar to the Bears: strong D, holes in the OL, some shaky playmakers. Unlike Philly the Bears still have their coach and starting QB. For now. Philly decided to cut bait and move on from their HC and QB, something many Bears fans were wanting. Pederson won the freaking SB for them yet they decided he was not good enough. Is Nagy good enough?

Eagles have basically no cap space

They got old - it's almost a full teardown there IMHO

[Moriarty]

https://www.aol.com/report-carson-wentz ... 44763.html

Schefter revealed that Wentz and former head coach Doug Pederson didn't speak to each other for over half the season.

"There were a lot of things that went wrong. We have the team drafting Jalen Hurts, we have Carson feeling jilted by that, we have the team trying to reassure him, we have Carson not getting past that, we have Carson struggling, we have Carson and Doug not talking for weeks on end during the season, where the head coach and quarterback are not talking for 8, 9, 10 weeks, whatever it may be."

Crazy stuff.
Can you imagine Nagy & Mitch not speaking for the 2 months that Foles started?

[GSH]

I think Pace is all in on Watson. If that fails, I legit think they re-sign Mitch for 2 years at $10m py and we get another go around on the mitch/foles carousel because what draft capital we have is too valuable to the team to use on o line and WR..

Here's the thing, if there is one thing that the weird ass playoff season of 2020 showed us, its that the offense CAN play and the Defense CAN play - the problem was if one turned up, the other didnt show up. It was a season of 2 halves, literally.

With a couple of moves to bolster the O line and WR room, the Bears are still a hard team to beat if ALL PHASES show up on game day and lazor is calling plays on Offense and lets see how desai does.

2020 season we either were great on D or good on 0, there were hardly any full team performances.

So yeah - thats a spicy take or whatever.

[thunderspirit]

I don't think there's any possible way the Bears bring Trubisky back after essentially throwing him under the bus in the postseason press conference. (Nor will he likely want to return -- I certainly wouldn't.)

[GSH]

I don't think there's any possible way the Bears bring Trubisky back after essentially throwing him under the bus in the postseason press conference. (Nor will he likely want to return -- I certainly wouldn't.)

so you're saying the you dont think the Bears will be likely to do the most Bears thing ever?

Thats where im getting my position from on this whole thing. Any worthwhile vets are now likely outta reach, i dont think pace is gonna put his career on Darnold or similar when he's made the playoffs with mitch twice.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

I can't see where Pace is going to find a starting-calibre QB for next season, but I can't imagine for one second that Trubisky will be back.

He's basically the best free-agent option out there. He'll get offers and there's absolutely no reason why he would want to spend another year with Nagy. First they declined his fifth year option, then traded for Foles, then Nagy benched him for half a season. After he effectively helped save Nagy and Pace's jobs, neither one even referred to him by name in that post-season presser. Instead they put the blame for the team's failings squarely on the 'QB position'. If he's to have any hope of making something of his career he's got to get away from Nagy.

[IE]

I can't see where Pace is going to find a starting-calibre QB for next season, but I can't imagine for one second that Trubisky will be back.

He's basically the best free-agent option out there. He'll get offers and there's absolutely no reason why he would want to spend another year with Nagy. First they declined his fifth year option, then traded for Foles, then Nagy benched him for half a season. After he effectively helped save Nagy and Pace's jobs, neither one even referred to him by name in that post-season presser. Instead they put the blame for the team's failings squarely on the 'QB position'. If he's to have any hope of making something of his career he's got to get away from Nagy.

Really? I sincerely don't understand how someone can make the claim that Mitch is the best FA option out there. He's been really truly bad.

I really don't like Nagy and don't think he's any good. I think the Foles experience exposed Nagy more than anything. But in his (Nagy's) defense he should probably get the same excuses Foles has around the epic bad Oline (even if the guys he played were basically his call). But there's nothing mutually exclusive there, and both Nagy and Trubisky can be bad. And I think that's pretty much the case.

I think of the list of FAs, Mitch is near the bottom - beneath even Dalton and Brissett. But probably above Tyrod by just a bit.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Yes really IE. It's a reflection of how poor the free agent market is rather than any endorsement of Trubisky.

Dalton? He's been around 10 years and has a career passer rating of 87.3 almost identical to Trubisky's 87.2.

Last 3 seasons:
35 games (33 starts), 756/1226 (61.7%), 8,230 yards, 51 TDs, 33 INTs, 84.1 rating.
76 carries, 286 yards (3.8 ypc), 4 TDs

Brissett? After 5 seasons he has a career rating of 84.1, has thrown for more than 3,000 yards just once (4 years ago) and his highest ever season rating was 88.0.

Last 3 seasons:
30 games (15 starts), 276/459 (60.1%), 2,961 yards, 18 TDs, 6 INTs, 86.7 rating.
80 carries, 240 yards (3.0 ypc), 7 TDs

Taylor? Good grief! He's been in the league for 10 years and played for 4 different teams. He's a journeyman backup.

Last 3 seasons:
14 games (4 starts), 62/121 (51.2%), 714 yards, 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 70.7 passer rating.
32 carries, 139 yards (4.3 ypc), 1 TD

Trubisky? He's still young, has had a passer rating in the mid-nineties twice in the past 3 seasons and is a much greater threat with his legs. Not only has he outperformed the others you mention, but he clearly has the most potential upside for any suitors. Nick Foles's performances last season may well leave them wondering just how much of Trubisky's struggles have been down to Nagy and his oft-dysfunctional offense.

Last 3 seasons:
39 games (38 starts), 814/1247 (65.3%), 8,416 yards, 57 TDs, 30 INTs, 89.8 rating
149 carries, 809 yards rushing (5.4 ypc), 6 TDs

Who else is there? Ryan Fitzpatrick if you want a stop gap (and a bit of fun along the way)? Winston if New Orleans don't keep him? Cam Newton after his stint in New England? Mike Glennon? Joe Flacco? Brian Hoyer? Matt Barkley?

[RichH55]

What a terrible list

[IE]

I hate career QB ratings as a stat. It tells you so very little about a guy. Like I've been pointing out, Mitch has 8 of his 29 wins with a rating of under 85. And over 30% of his TDs have come in only 5 games (including a monster game against Tampa, benefitting from 4 turnovers). That's not who he is. If there Bears were like the Harlem Globetrotters and Detroit could play them every week (with Patricia as coach) as their own personal Washington Generals... I'd say sure Mitch will play well. Outside of that, he's pretty bad. It's not mutually exclusive - Nagy is bad too.

Where we're at with this is, it's exactly like Rex where the "Mitch can be good" echo won't die down until he is on the field somewhere else and demonstrating that he can't read defenses and isn't accurate without throwing to a spot. Until then, we have to hear how he's really close to being Tannehill or Carr or whoever...

[RichH55]

I hate career QB ratings as a stat. It tells you so very little about a guy. Like I've been pointing out, Mitch has 8 of his 29 wins with a rating of under 85. And over 30% of his TDs have come in only 5 games (including a monster game against Tampa, benefitting from 4 turnovers). That's not who he is. If there Bears were like the Harlem Globetrotters and Detroit could play them every week (with Patricia as coach) as their own personal Washington Generals... I'd say sure Mitch will play well. Outside of that, he's pretty bad. It's not mutually exclusive - Nagy is bad too.

Where we're at with this is, it's exactly like Rex where the "Mitch can be good" echo won't die down until he is on the field somewhere else and demonstrating that he can't read defenses and isn't accurate without throwing to a spot. Until then, we have to hear how he's really close to being Tannehill or Carr or whoever...

All are excellent points - especially about QB Ratings

But you still get that he just has to be better than the Andy Daltons of the world to be the best FA (or at least top 3) this year

[IE]

Personally I believe Andy Dalton would be a slight upgrade to Mitch, still. For $3MM? I'd love to see him come in to back up Foles.

[RichH55]

Personally I believe Andy Dalton would be a slight upgrade to Mitch, still. For $3MM? I'd love to see him come in to back up Foles.

Why?

Is there a College QB you already want to pick #1 in 2022?

[Moriarty]

Personally I believe Andy Dalton would be a slight upgrade to Mitch, still. For $3MM? I'd love to see him come in to back up Foles.

Why?

Is there a College QB you already want to pick #1 in 2022?

People emerge and I don't follow college much, outside of draft issues - but next year's crop seems really underwhelming at the moment.


That said - I think Foles with a fixed OL and maybe 1 more receiving weapon would do a lot better than people think. IF they stopped running out of the shotgun all the time.

[dplank]

I'm not going to defend QB Ratings as the end all QB stat and I recognize the flaws in the stat, but it's far more meaningful than wins/losses. And there's a lot of folks that point to wins/losses as a primary QB evaluation tool and it's mind blowingly moronic to me. Just read the Twittersphere, every time a Mitch conversation comes up you'll see someone pop on and point to wins. Kyle Orton had a similar dynamic here, and we saw how good a QB he turned out to be.

My POV is that even if Mitch is one of the better options in the FA QB market, he can't come back here. HIs time here is over, it didn't work, best of luck elsewhere.

[IE]

I'm not going to defend QB Ratings as the end all QB stat and I recognize the flaws in the stat, but it's far more meaningful than wins/losses. And there's a lot of folks that point to wins/losses as a primary QB evaluation tool and it's mind blowingly moronic to me. Just read the Twittersphere, every time a Mitch conversation comes up you'll see someone pop on and point to wins. Kyle Orton had a similar dynamic here, and we saw how good a QB he turned out to be.

My POV is that even if Mitch is one of the better options in the FA QB market, he can't come back here. HIs time here is over, it didn't work, best of luck elsewhere.

Agreed. Won-loss record is a horrible measure of a QB. Peyton Manning and many other greats lost a lot as a young QB. And nobody is credibly questioning Watson's cred as a top QB.

Average stats get better with much larger samples. I don't know what number that is - but if 4-5 games against bums paint a misleading picture, I think people need to be more honest and acknowledge it.

I'd really like to see everyone move to median stat analysis. Statistical terms scare people, so maybe we could come up with a good TLA and get traction.

I don't wish Mitch anything but well. It is just that what I wish him and what I predict for him are two different things. I wish he would have been much better on the Bears, and developed with all that opportunity. I hope he finds success in a system more suited to him, and with the resources around him to be successful. I just would never predict it, as there is no basis.

[Hoog]

I have to go with His Royal Sweetness on this one. While Mitch isn't great or even that good, he is the best on the market at this time. The sad part is that I don't see any NFL starters on the market so Mitch is really the best back up on the market. I see him ending up in Pittsburgh on a two year low end deal or in Vegas if they trade Mariota. He will be a prime candidate for back up once everyone settles their starting QB situation. Let's hope the Bears actually have some plans to replace him because he ain't coming back after the end of the season bashing.

[G08]

Trubisky? He's still young, has had a passer rating in the mid-nineties twice in the past 3 seasons and is a much greater threat with his legs. Not only has he outperformed the others you mention, but he clearly has the most potential upside for any suitors. Nick Foles's performances last season may well leave them wondering just how much of Trubisky's struggles have been down to Nagy and his oft-dysfunctional offense.

Last 3 seasons:
39 games (38 starts), 814/1247 (65.3%), 8,416 yards, 57 TDs, 30 INTs, 89.8 rating
149 carries, 809 yards rushing (5.4 ypc), 6 TDs

Tony Dungy is on record saying you can win a Super Bowl with Mitch Trubisky.

However, I think the writing is on the wall. Nagy doesn't want to run the Shanahan offense, even though that is what is best for Trubisky.

We'll likely trade picks for Marcus Mariota, who basically is the same player as Mitchell Trubisky, just a year older, and hope to jam this complicated offense down his throat.