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The Cooler King
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Anyone here have experience leasing or buying solar for their home? Any good/bad experiences or recommendations?

I'm currently contemplating a quote from Sun Run for a lease option. No money down, but since it's a lease they get all the tax credits and any excess they can sell. I get a low fixed rate (they basically undercut my current 0.17+/kwh to 0.08/kwh with a fixed annual increase). But even after 20 years with fized increases the bill would be the same as what my lowest bill is now.

But I basically look at it as I'm leased land to them to get tax credits and possibly sell some excess energy. I just get some lower energy rates as payment.

Obviously if the system doesn't meet my energy needs (it accrues/resets annually and I bank credits to use in the winter), I buy the difference, but still should be a significant energy saving. Sales guy claimed in the Chicago area the payoff to purchase is about 12 years, and I don't think thats a upfront hit I can take now, even with financing options. The lease option does come with automatic options to buy the system down the line, but obviously I'll have given up any tax credits at that time.

Any thought or personal experiences to share?
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mmmc_35
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I dont personally. I know a guy who has panels. The truth and what he tells people are different. From what I have gathered the savings isnt what he thought, and they have had to do repairs on them. He tells people all the time how great they are etc. When he has a couple beers he speaks differently. I personally think the guy is a fucking snob, liar, cunt bucket, soo.....

That's not an endorsement against them. I would personally plan on them not saving you as much money as you would expect, and there maybe an upkeep cost. However they also could be better then expected.
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The Marshall Plan
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To me, the whole thing seems like a giant scam. Like the people that spend $10K on new windows and flex about the energy savings. Ummm ok, how many years of electric bills is $10K?

People like to do elective bullshit like this because it makes them feel good about themselves. I doubt there's any money in getting solar panels on your roof. What happens if you need to repair or replace your roof? The panels have to come off right? Then what are you gonna do?

Look at Texas. Despite being in Oil Central USA those idiots did green energy and froze to death.

Things like this remind me about when my mother-in-law recently asked me about switching from DirectTV to a Roku with a bunch of crap. She's not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so going from one thing to learn (Direct TV) to like 10 (Roku plus streaming services) would just be setting her up to fail all to save like $20 per month. But people love their elective bullshit to sound trendy though. It gives her something to discuss at parties I suppose.
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The Cooler King
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So to a few of the questions:

I'm not contemplating ownership so that definitely changes a few things.

If something happens to my roof?
They are going to warranty the life of my roof for the 20 years of the lease. And they'll have insurance on the % of my roof thats used, so if it needs repair they'll be paying a portion of out of insurance on the roof repairs.

Repair/maintenance? All on them.

I think the cost expectation let down is mostly limited to the extent that the system might underproduce, though I think they have to guarantee a certain % of the quoted output.

But if I exceed the solar capacity with my usage, I'm billed on the overage from ComEd. But their implied $/kwh also is cutting ComEd in half basically. So there's doesn't appear to be a ton of cost downside even if I'm just replacing only half my usage with solar, I'm replacing half my usage at half the rate, then status quo for the rest.

What's in it for them? Big tax rebates and then possibly eventually selling excess energy back to ComEd. In the summer when rates are higher they sell my excess energy to ComEd. I get that back as a credit in the winter, but the cost to buy back is lower, so they're leveraging my energy usage to basically do buy/sell arbitrage with the utilities. And as energy rates rise that only gets better. He said the pay back period in IL is 12 and I presume that's going to be quite a bit less, otherwise they'd probably push buying on me instead of leasing. So I'm not under illusion it's not a great deal for them, I'm basically just conduit as leased land for them to role out their product. But I don't appear to be taking a ton of cost risk either, I just get some kickback in lower energy costs.

The other downside to me is I'm locked into a long lease, which could cause some friction to a home sale if I decide to sell before the lease is out. If a potential buyer doesn't want to take over the lease terms I'm stuck buying out the lease or buying the system to end the lease. That's the part that has my wife worried. So. She's open to solar, but wants us to explore owning the system rather than lease.
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The Marshall Plan wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:57 am
Look at Texas. Despite being in Oil Central USA those idiots did green energy and froze to death.
As a side note:

Green energy was a minority fraction of their power and not at all why the system was a colossal failure.


https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... as/618104/
Texas politicians had an early explanation. “Our wind and our solar got shut down, and they were collectively more than 10 percent of our power grid,” Governor Greg Abbott told Fox News’s Sean Hannity this week. “It just shows that fossil fuel is necessary.”

In fact, a senior director at ERCOT now says that renewable-energy outages were the least important factor in the blackouts. And although wind energy underperformed ERCOT’s estimates on Monday, solar power actually overshot them. More important, the Texas grid collapsed because some 28,000 megawatts of coal, nuclear, and gas power went offline—about a third of ERCOT’s total capacity. ERCOT failed, because fossil fuels failed. And one fuel failed in particular: natural gas.
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The propaganda machine is all out on that one.
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The Cooler King
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I just request we don't accidentally derail the thread with politics of green energy. Thanks guys.
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mmmc_35
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Look if its essentially no cost to you and a savings do it. Its pretty simple. It wont hurt your resale value people love that stuff. Throw up a wind mill (they are actually easy to diy) and people will throw money at you.
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The Cooler King
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mmmc_35 wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:03 am Look if its essentially no cost to you and a savings do it. Its pretty simple. It wont hurt your resale value people love that stuff. Throw up a wind mill (they are actually easy to diy) and people will throw money at you.
I asked my real estate friend and he says he hasn't seen it a lot but when he has asthetics have still seemed to matter, for instance people mind less if it's only in the back of the house. Mine would be visible from everywhere. But every market is different. I've talked to people in other markets who say it absolutely is a selling point.

My wife is also worried the presence of the lease adds friction to a home sale. Even if someone loves solar they may not love being presented with a lease agreement. Hopefully if we can show low energy costs that mitigates it, but my wife is really unconvinced.
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In the county I live in solar panels would be a focal point of the sale. If you parked a charging station out front people would be throwing cash at you.

I actually like the idea of roof solar panels but can see why people would want them.
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We've considered it, but it basically takes an act of congress to get my HOA to approve solar panels.
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The Cooler King
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wab wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:03 am We've considered it, but it basically takes an act of congress to get my HOA to approve solar panels.
They need to make a solar panel with text on it so you can call it your first ammendment right and dare them to do something about it lol

But seriously that is annoying. We're lucky in that regard, we're in an old suburb with no HOAs except for the few townhomes or condos.
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I've been looking at some of the solar options and looking into rent vs buy outright. For my area in western NY, you have to consider the sun intensity and frequency. A somewhat local guy did a youtube for his farm and the cost vs savings and how he set it up and so forth.

He detailed how 12 years ago he installed a solar system for $16k that included 3 adjustable panels sitting out in his yard, conversion relays for different power so he could have 220 go to some areas and normal power to others, as well as a meter to sell excess power back to the utility. He estimates that he's saved roughly $8 grand, so will need at least another 11 years to pay off his investment.

He also qualified the costs by explaining the same system today would probably cost roughly $12K to install, and the panels, relays and inverters are more efficient so believed that it would provide a better rate of savings, especially if there were a battery bank to charge and draw off in case of a power outage. He decided against a battery bank at the time due to maintenance costs he perceived at the time.

My only contact that has locked in to a lease similar to what you describe does see a small decrease of their monthly budget plan based on the lower usage fees, but you will always have the delivery cost of the utility, and you will need to have a newer roof installed prior to the panel installation and you are responsible for roof maintenance if the contract is similar to that which my friend signed.

Me personally, I wouldn't lease, because that lease could be voided by selling the home (see fine print), and even if it does transfer, there are a lot of people out there that cringe at inheriting something they "don't own", and thus you're limiting the market for selling your house. Although the up front cost is a little bit high, I believe that you can get a decent return playing the long game with the advancements in solar tech, but you need to be in a house you can see staying in for a decade or better.
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I have a high level plan to put a good sized array of panels on the side of the house over the garage - facing south. In the next 2-4 years, hopefully. It gets a lot of sun, almost all day except for the deepest of winter when the sun curves north a bit.

I haven't done the detailed pricing research and have no firm quote on how much it costs to install and own a solar system yet. But I've been doing some reading and understand the ballpark I'd be in. One thing I've concluded is I just like the idea, and know that it will contribute to pay for itself over time. I don't care if it is 10, 12 or 15 years, really. I don't think there is a clear business case in the sense that if you install them it will be a life-changing difference in cash flow. I think it *is* a bit of a hedge against energy cost inflation - which I think is safe to predict. I just like the idea of having some personal energy independence. To me that is very appealing.

Our house is already wired to operate with a generator, and I'd like to get a whole-house battery to use for power outages using our backup wiring, as well as to supplement power from the utility (and work as part of a system with the panels).

What I'm really not wanting to do is lease the panels. Just think about it. These companies have done the case, and are confident enough in the return that the system will pay for itself AND they'll be able to pay you AND they'll make money. The hurdle they're *helping* people with is the funding. But they're taking almost all of the benefit, and only insuring you against price increases. To me that isn't enough. So....

If I do it, I want it to be all mine, and power my house. And I'd like to be in a position to sell excess back to DTE to help pay for the installation. A ten year loan at current rates would be a pretty small payment that I wouldn't be too worried about - especially if it took a sizeable dent out of our monthly $350-450 power bills which I fully expect to get close to doubling in the next 20 years.

TMP - we replaced almost ALL of our windows a year after we moved into the house. It wasn't for energy, though - energy efficient windows do help, but most houses have a lot more "leakage" than the windows. We didn't have to do them all, but well over half of them were so rotten I could push my finger through the frame. They were 30 year old cheapo builder grade wood windows. I realized when we bought the place the window replacement was part of the deal. the owners had already put cheapo insert "Wallside" aluminum windows over some bad ones, and it was really bad. So when we went to get pricing on replacing the ones that needed it, we realized we were going to have a patchwork of 3 different types of windows and would still have to replace the rest in the near future. So we pulled the trigger on all new Andersen windows all-around and it cost me the equivalent of two new cars. Ouch. But necessary. And they're super-cool all-black ... spectacular, actually. I expect we'd get the vast majority of the cost out of them if not all - if we sold. Which I have no intention of doing before I die. lol
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