Nagy optimism

[IE]

Trubisky is gone. Therefore, Nagy Optimism.

[G08]

@Yogi da Bear

I completely agree.

That’s a huge flaw in Nagy’s thought process. The strength of the team the past three years has been the defense. A running game gives the defense a breather. But a running game doesn’t fit his idea of what an offense is.

And to another point of yours, when you’ve got a RB on a roll you feed that guy nonstop. If he gets tired, feed RB #2 and see if it’s working because of RB #1 or if the opposing defense is tired.

Now we did have OL problems. Hopefully this year with the upgrades and that running game gets going Nagy sticks with it.

KC runs a lot, I think there’s a chicken/egg debate here. Not a philosophy problem so much.

They're about 60/40 pass to run.

[dplank]

KC runs a lot, I think there’s a chicken/egg debate here. Not a philosophy problem so much.

They're about 60/40 pass to run.

That sounds about right for 2021 NFL football. I'd be very happy if we had that same ratio.

[G08]

They're about 60/40 pass to run.

That sounds about right for 2021 NFL football. I'd be very happy if we had that same ratio.

We were right there last season.

[dplank]

That sounds about right for 2021 NFL football. I'd be very happy if we had that same ratio.

We were right there last season.

Hmmm, a little surprised but not totally shocked. I think this narrative that Nagy's philosophically opposed to the run game is false.

[IE]

I'd prefer to be closer to a 50:50 ratio overall, with a bit higher passing ratio in first halves and higher running ratio in second halves.

The overall ratio doesn't tell you much. If you're 60:40 but start out running more & then end up pass heavy because you're losing, that sucks. So yeah NFL modern ratio earlier in the games, and then "winning mode" running in the 4th quarter.

[dplank]

Tenn, NE, and Baltimore were the only teams in the league at 50% or better running the ball. It's just not very common at all. League avg seems to be roughly 58/59% pass. Nagy was at 62 last year, not far off and a bit higher than his previous two seasons (which I believe is due to the line issues mid season)

[Yogi da Bear]

I would prefer a ratio closer to 55/45, but that's really not my issue. My pet peeve with Nagy, and remember I really like Nagy, is his penchant not to ride a hot hand. And it's not only that he doesn't ride the hot hand, he takes that hot hand out of the game altogether, so that they can't even effectively function as a decoy. It's happened with both Howard and Montgomery where they have a good run, and if Nagy is feeling generous, two in succession, but then he takes them out of the game and either throws or has Cohen or Patterson or somebody else take the next carry. Just can't understand it.

Last year, Patterson was a good example. Montgomery averaged 4.3 a carry on 243 attempts. Patterson averaged 3.6 a carry on 64 attempts. Why was Patterson stealing ANY carries from Montgomery? Yet there he was taking a quarter of the carries that David did. And he's not even really a running back. Doesn't make any sense to me.

[southdakbearfan]

Trubisky is gone. Therefore, Nagy Optimism.

So is Patterson. He was like a bouncing tennis ball (Patterson) to a Labrador retriever (Nagy). DISTRACTION guaranteed to somehow, through play calling, dick up 2-3 drives a game.

[dplank]

I agree with the hot hand thing Yogi. I was mainly countering this bit by TMP:

But a running game doesn’t fit his idea of what an offense is.

I don't think this is true at all.

[IE]

Tenn, NE, and Baltimore were the only teams in the league at 50% or better running the ball. It's just not very common at all. League avg seems to be roughly 58/59% pass. Nagy was at 62 last year, not far off and a bit higher than his previous two seasons (which I believe is due to the line issues mid season)

Yeah understood. Modern NFL just isn't 50:50. BUT if we're talking at that high level I'd rather be moving more TOWARDs 50:50 than going over 60:40 because if you're still running in the second half (or even running more) it is because you're winning.

My ideal:
First half of games: 60:40
Second half of games: 50:50 It just plain means you took a lead in most first halfs and are balanced and burning the clock in the 2nd halfs.

[The Marshall Plan]

I agree with the hot hand thing Yogi. I was mainly countering this bit by TMP:

But a running game doesn’t fit his idea of what an offense is.

I don't think this is true at all.

I say that based on Nagy's treatment of Jordan Howard. We had a consistent 1,000 yard rusher on a rookie deal in the prime of his career.

Who in their right mind gets rid of a guy like that? He didn't like Howard in the passing game apparently. OK so what? Seriously. So what? Howard moved the chains.

Then we get a sixth round pick for him?

At a minimum, what would've been wrong with drafting or signing another RB that does fit the offense but keep Howard? A dominant running game would've taken a huge load off of Mitch. Platooning two good backs has a ton of benefits.

IIRC we signed Mike Davis to be the 2nd back. In what way is Mike Davis better than Jordan Howard? And didn't we pay Davis more too? I'm guessing it was more than rookie deal money.

I believe you've made this point before and I agree with it. The OL suckage has hurt the running game and I'm sure that's throwing off some of the numbers here.

[TheWorldBreaker]

The competition also got worse and the offensive line improved at the end of the season.

You have to be able to throw in the pocket and hit open receivers, something he’s apparently still struggling with in Buffalo.

This criticism is so ridiculous, “Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” SMH

You need to read more carefully. Notice that I didn't say that "Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” IN FACT, no where have I said that Nagy is a bad coach. PERIOD! I've been defending him. What I did say here was that Nagy's mistake was trying to make him a "Pocket DEEP Passer."

You can throw from the pocket without having your coach emphasizing that you throw deep. You can still throw dump offs and medium throws (which Trubisky is actually pretty good at) from the pocket. Lazor figured this out. Notice how he used Kmet after he took over the play calling:



Notice all the dump offs. Notice that NOTHING goes over 20 yards.

But it wasn't only Kmet he did this with. He also did it with Mooney. Look at all the dump offs to Mooney later in the season. Notice his shortened routes that he had him run versus what he did with Foles. And notice too that the one long shot from Trubs was off of a rollout.



And in 2018, Nagy had Trubs running nearly 5 times a game. In 2019 that went down to only 3.3 a game and continued to less than 3 a game in the first three games Nagy called plays for Trubs in '20 as he was trying to change him. Lazor than increased it up to over four a game when he took over. All of this kept Trubs sacks down to only 4 over the final 4 games of the season. That Nagy let Lazor do this is a testament to Nagy, but it's also a condemnation of how he treated him up until that point. In Nagy going to Daly to find out what Fields did well and which plays he liked shows me that perhaps Nagy has learned from his mistakes.

So you can stop shaking your head now. You look a little bit silly:

[img]https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads ... -3.gif[img]

You can’t beat good defenses if you can’t keep them honest, which is why Nagy wanted to go deep and why Trubisky tended to play well against garbage teams and was trash against good teams.

They were playing bad teams in your little highlight reel, and they weren’t competitive in the playoffs.

When good teams know you’re not throwing deep they focus on the short and intermediate routes and make the offense slog.

Trubisky just does not have the skill set of a starting NFL QB.

[o-pus #40 in B major]

Many, many moons ago: When Don Shula coached Baltimore, he got some media criticism that his offense was not able to run the ball very well. The next game he ran it right down their throats and won decisively, just to prove a point. I don't give a hoot about the pass/run ratio as long as we can run the ball well when it's advantageous to do so.

Running backs are the toughest guys on the field and I love to see them play successfully. That said, I know there is only one statistic that really matters at the end of the game. It's called the final score.

[dplank]

I agree with the hot hand thing Yogi. I was mainly countering this bit by TMP:



I don't think this is true at all.

I say that based on Nagy's treatment of Jordan Howard. We had a consistent 1,000 yard rusher on a rookie deal in the prime of his career.

Who in their right mind gets rid of a guy like that? He didn't like Howard in the passing game apparently. OK so what? Seriously. So what? Howard moved the chains.

Then we get a sixth round pick for him?

At a minimum, what would've been wrong with drafting or signing another RB that does fit the offense but keep Howard? A dominant running game would've taken a huge load off of Mitch. Platooning two good backs has a ton of benefits.

IIRC we signed Mike Davis to be the 2nd back. In what way is Mike Davis better than Jordan Howard? And didn't we pay Davis more too? I'm guessing it was more than rookie deal money.

I believe you've made this point before and I agree with it. The OL suckage has hurt the running game and I'm sure that's throwing off some of the numbers here.

I was upset with Jordan Howard as well, I REALLY liked Howard when he was here. BUT, if Howard was all that I thought he was, he'd have made a bigger impact in Philly/Mia - neither team had established starters but he failed to carve out a big role in either place. So Nagy isn't unique here, there's a lot of teams whose offenses don't favor that type of back, ours is one of them - and we really don't want John Fox offense back, which is where Howard excelled. Howard should backup Henry in Tennessee, he'd be great for them. Fox gets rightfully roasted for his tenure here, but I must say that his rushing attack was coming on when he got fired, as was his defense which Fangio led into the next season with incredible results. I was shocked that Fox failed here TBH, but like Pagano the game appeared to have passed him bye.

So for me, I'm an old school guy as well growing up watching tough "3 yards in a cloud of dust" football. But I accept that the game has fundamentally changed, it favors offense and it specifically favors passing offense. You can't touch QB's. You can't hit WR's. It's a different game. And so I want to roll with a Nagy approach which is pass heavy and see what happens. I'm fine at 60/40 and being in the Top 10 in pass/run ratio in the league. I've been watching us try to run back the 1985 formula for the last 35 years like you have, I'm tired of it. Air that shit out and get Fields on the field ASAP and let him grow into a star. And let's see Nagy become a Sean Payton type fixture in Chicago, super long tenured with playoffs damn near every year and shot's at a SB damn near every year. It's our turn dagnabbit.

[The Marshall Plan]

I say that based on Nagy's treatment of Jordan Howard. We had a consistent 1,000 yard rusher on a rookie deal in the prime of his career.

Who in their right mind gets rid of a guy like that? He didn't like Howard in the passing game apparently. OK so what? Seriously. So what? Howard moved the chains.

Then we get a sixth round pick for him?

At a minimum, what would've been wrong with drafting or signing another RB that does fit the offense but keep Howard? A dominant running game would've taken a huge load off of Mitch. Platooning two good backs has a ton of benefits.

IIRC we signed Mike Davis to be the 2nd back. In what way is Mike Davis better than Jordan Howard? And didn't we pay Davis more too? I'm guessing it was more than rookie deal money.

I believe you've made this point before and I agree with it. The OL suckage has hurt the running game and I'm sure that's throwing off some of the numbers here.

I was upset with Jordan Howard as well, I REALLY liked Howard when he was here. BUT, if Howard was all that I thought he was, he'd have made a bigger impact in Philly/Mia - neither team had established starters but he failed to carve out a big role in either place. So Nagy isn't unique here, there's a lot of teams whose offenses don't favor that type of back, ours is one of them - and we really don't want John Fox offense back, which is where Howard excelled. Howard should backup Henry in Tennessee, he'd be great for them. Fox gets rightfully roasted for his tenure here, but I must say that his rushing attack was coming on when he got fired, as was his defense which Fangio led into the next season with incredible results. I was shocked that Fox failed here TBH, but like Pagano the game appeared to have passed him bye.

So for me, I'm an old school guy as well growing up watching tough "3 yards in a cloud of dust" football. But I accept that the game has fundamentally changed, it favors offense and it specifically favors passing offense. You can't touch QB's. You can't hit WR's. It's a different game. And so I want to roll with a Nagy approach which is pass heavy and see what happens. I'm fine at 60/40 and being in the Top 10 in pass/run ratio in the league. I've been watching us try to run back the 1985 formula for the last 35 years like you have, I'm tired of it. Air that shit out and get Fields on the field ASAP and let him grow into a star. And let's see Nagy become a Sean Payton type fixture in Chicago, super long tenured with playoffs damn near every year and shot's at a SB damn near every year. It's our turn dagnabbit.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to modernize. Fields is the perfect reason to do just that.

To me that involves:

1) Pay ARob
2) Sign The Guy on the OL.
3) A coach like Nagy would be exactly the guy that we need. I'm so pissed off that he couldn't develop Mitch, but the flip side to that argument is that maybe Mitch wasn't good enough to develop. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit I suppose.
4) Let's see what Lazor does this year, but what about making Flip the OC for 2022? If he develops Fields into an effective starter this year, he needs to be OC.

It really is our turn. Not because we deserve it or anything like that. The Lions will always suck. The Vikings are mediocre. The Puke are ripe for a fall. It's just begging to happen with them. Rodgers leaves and they're totally fucked. We'll win the division by default.

[dplank]

I was upset with Jordan Howard as well, I REALLY liked Howard when he was here. BUT, if Howard was all that I thought he was, he'd have made a bigger impact in Philly/Mia - neither team had established starters but he failed to carve out a big role in either place. So Nagy isn't unique here, there's a lot of teams whose offenses don't favor that type of back, ours is one of them - and we really don't want John Fox offense back, which is where Howard excelled. Howard should backup Henry in Tennessee, he'd be great for them. Fox gets rightfully roasted for his tenure here, but I must say that his rushing attack was coming on when he got fired, as was his defense which Fangio led into the next season with incredible results. I was shocked that Fox failed here TBH, but like Pagano the game appeared to have passed him bye.

So for me, I'm an old school guy as well growing up watching tough "3 yards in a cloud of dust" football. But I accept that the game has fundamentally changed, it favors offense and it specifically favors passing offense. You can't touch QB's. You can't hit WR's. It's a different game. And so I want to roll with a Nagy approach which is pass heavy and see what happens. I'm fine at 60/40 and being in the Top 10 in pass/run ratio in the league. I've been watching us try to run back the 1985 formula for the last 35 years like you have, I'm tired of it. Air that shit out and get Fields on the field ASAP and let him grow into a star. And let's see Nagy become a Sean Payton type fixture in Chicago, super long tenured with playoffs damn near every year and shot's at a SB damn near every year. It's our turn dagnabbit.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need to modernize. Fields is the perfect reason to do just that.

To me that involves:

1) Pay ARob
2) Sign The Guy on the OL.
3) A coach like Nagy would be exactly the guy that we need. I'm so pissed off that he couldn't develop Mitch, but the flip side to that argument is that maybe Mitch wasn't good enough to develop. Can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit I suppose.
4) Let's see what Lazor does this year, but what about making Flip the OC for 2022? If he develops Fields into an effective starter this year, he needs to be OC.

It really is our turn. Not because we deserve it or anything like that. The Lions will always suck. The Vikings are mediocre. The Puke are ripe for a fall. It's just begging to happen with them. Rodgers leaves and they're totally fucked. We'll win the division by default.

I'm in on promoting Flip, I wanted him as HC when we signed Nagy I've always liked him.

[Yogi da Bear]

You need to read more carefully. Notice that I didn't say that "Nagy is a bad coach because he wanted Trubisky to be able to throw from the pocket.” IN FACT, no where have I said that Nagy is a bad coach. PERIOD! I've been defending him. What I did say here was that Nagy's mistake was trying to make him a "Pocket DEEP Passer."

You can throw from the pocket without having your coach emphasizing that you throw deep. You can still throw dump offs and medium throws (which Trubisky is actually pretty good at) from the pocket. Lazor figured this out. Notice how he used Kmet after he took over the play calling:



Notice all the dump offs. Notice that NOTHING goes over 20 yards.

But it wasn't only Kmet he did this with. He also did it with Mooney. Look at all the dump offs to Mooney later in the season. Notice his shortened routes that he had him run versus what he did with Foles. And notice too that the one long shot from Trubs was off of a rollout.



And in 2018, Nagy had Trubs running nearly 5 times a game. In 2019 that went down to only 3.3 a game and continued to less than 3 a game in the first three games Nagy called plays for Trubs in '20 as he was trying to change him. Lazor than increased it up to over four a game when he took over. All of this kept Trubs sacks down to only 4 over the final 4 games of the season. That Nagy let Lazor do this is a testament to Nagy, but it's also a condemnation of how he treated him up until that point. In Nagy going to Daly to find out what Fields did well and which plays he liked shows me that perhaps Nagy has learned from his mistakes.

So you can stop shaking your head now. You look a little bit silly:

[img]https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads ... -3.gif[img]

You can’t beat good defenses if you can’t keep them honest, which is why Nagy wanted to go deep and why Trubisky tended to play well against garbage teams and was trash against good teams.

They were playing bad teams in your little highlight reel, and they weren’t competitive in the playoffs.

When good teams know you’re not throwing deep they focus on the short and intermediate routes and make the offense slog.

Trubisky just does not have the skill set of a starting NFL QB.

I'm not arguing whether or not Mitch is a NFL QB. That's not the point. The point is that Nagy refused to tailor his offense Mitchell. He forced him to be something he's not. Even if he's NOT a NFL QB because he can't throw it deep, why would you keep encouraging him to do precisely that? If he's not going to hit the deep ball, you're just putting him a risk of a sack or at best a wasted play.

Lazor was much more successful around tailoring the offense around Mitchell's strengths. Consequentially, his sacks went down. Both New Orleans and Green Bay only got one sack a piece against him. His QB rating went way up. Four of his last five games were 95 rating or higher. And I beg to differ that we weren't competitive in the playoffs. We lost one game with a double doink after Mitchell got us into position to win it. And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game. Lazor also figured out how to get the deep ball out of Mitch. First, he hit a deep one to Mooney against Green Bay by rolling Mitchell out. Against New Orleans he used a Statue of Liberty and Mitchell hit Wims perfectly but Wims dropped it. That's a different game if Wims holds on.

Need I remind you that he did the same thing to Nick Foles. Foles can throw the deep ball from the pocket. Unfortunately, our line at the time was in no condition to protect him long enough to get it done. Foles' sack rate skyrocketed and eventually it affected his accuracy, even when there wasn't the pressure. Remember how Foles said that Nagy would send in a play that he just knew wouldn't work? THAT'S the point. You have to tailor your play calling to what your QB and your offense CAN do. It makes no sense to call plays that are doomed to fail from the start. You get by within the limitations of what you have, and if that makes the offense slog, then you just have to slog through.

[WP.1]

Lazor was much more successful around tailoring the offense around Mitchell's strengths. Consequentially, his sacks went down. Both New Orleans and Green Bay only got one sack a piece against him. His QB rating went way up. Four of his last five games were 95 rating or higher. And I beg to differ that we weren't competitive in the playoffs. We lost one game with a double doink after Mitchell got us into position to win it. And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game. Lazor also figured out how to get the deep ball out of Mitch. First, he hit a deep one to Mooney against Green Bay by rolling Mitchell out. Against New Orleans he used a Statue of Liberty and Mitchell hit Wims perfectly but Wims dropped it. That's a different game if Wims holds on.

Im sorry to say but

WC Saints 10/19 52.6% 107 Yards 0-0 Rating 69.4



in all
Its baffling. 4 years in and still to think he can win against good teams.

[Rusty Trombagent]

Yogi's argument is basically the football equivalent of "why dont they build the entire plane out of the black box?"

[HurricaneBear]

And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game.

This isn't the first time you've said this. New Orleans was winning that game 21-3 until the Bears scored with 0 seconds on the clock to end the game. Trubisky threw for 199 yards and 1 TD, again which was on the last play of the game. That is not good at all. Lazor wasn't some magician who got results out of Mitch. He played a couple bad teams and Mitch looked good against them, then went right back to being the same old Mitch against good teams.

[G08]

I'm not arguing whether or not Mitch is a NFL QB. That's not the point. The point is that Nagy refused to tailor his offense Mitchell. He forced him to be something he's not. Even if he's NOT a NFL QB because he can't throw it deep, why would you keep encouraging him to do precisely that? If he's not going to hit the deep ball, you're just putting him a risk of a sack or at best a wasted play.

Lazor was much more successful around tailoring the offense around Mitchell's strengths. Consequentially, his sacks went down. Both New Orleans and Green Bay only got one sack a piece against him. His QB rating went way up. Four of his last five games were 95 rating or higher. And I beg to differ that we weren't competitive in the playoffs. We lost one game with a double doink after Mitchell got us into position to win it. And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game. Lazor also figured out how to get the deep ball out of Mitch. First, he hit a deep one to Mooney against Green Bay by rolling Mitchell out. Against New Orleans he used a Statue of Liberty and Mitchell hit Wims perfectly but Wims dropped it. That's a different game if Wims holds on.

Careful, Yogi, or you'll have the townsfolk shift away from me and gun for you with pitchforks in hand



The only thing I didn't like against Green Bay/New Orleans was the majority of calls were conservative in nature. Trubisky openly complained about "not opening it up" in the post-game presser. Is what it is; if he shows a penchant for hitting those throws consistently I'd like to think they would have been called more often.

I'm more annoyed that I was clamoring for running a Shanahan/McVay derivative all season and we didn't do it until week 12.

Need I remind you that he did the same thing to Nick Foles. Foles can throw the deep ball from the pocket. Unfortunately, our line at the time was in no condition to protect him long enough to get it done. Foles' sack rate skyrocketed and eventually it affected his accuracy, even when there wasn't the pressure. Remember how Foles said that Nagy would send in a play that he just knew wouldn't work? THAT'S the point. You have to tailor your play calling to what your QB and your offense CAN do. It makes no sense to call plays that are doomed to fail from the start. You get by within the limitations of what you have, and if that makes the offense slog, then you just have to slog through.

Agreed again, I felt there was a disconnect between what Nagy wanted to call and what his team was capable of executing. Tough to see WTF is going on when you're buried in your play sheet, but I digress.

To his defense, the Andy Reid offense is literally all that he knows (he said as much). Lazor is more versed in the Air Coryell offense with blending of West Coast concepts. I just hope that this season they aren't running two separate playbooks like they did with Trubisky/Foles last season (when Allen Robinson mentioned this my jaw was on the floor; talk about poor management).

[IE]

And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game.

This isn't the first time you've said this. New Orleans was winning that game 21-3 until the Bears scored with 0 seconds on the clock to end the game. Trubisky threw for 199 yards and 1 TD, again which was on the last play of the game. That is not good at all. Lazor wasn't some magician who got results out of Mitch. He played a couple bad teams and Mitch looked good against them, then went right back to being the same old Mitch against good teams.

N-V-P!!

nvp-nfl-2021.jpg

It is absolutely 100% TRUE that Nagy did not tailor his offense to the NVP. Nagy explained exactly why ... "I didn't come here to run the I Formation". Put simply, Nagy realized that by attempting to make Trubisky look serviceable he was dooming himself. So his thought process was "screw that - he's going to run a modern NFL offense and when he shows he can't it's him gone and not me".

Personally, I want my team to have an offense where if you miss one nice long catch it doesn't mean you can't win... that's not all they have. The Graham TD as the clocked ticked to zero was completely embarrassing even to Graham who knew it was junk and wanted no part of it.

[dplank]

I'm not arguing whether or not Mitch is a NFL QB. That's not the point. The point is that Nagy refused to tailor his offense Mitchell. He forced him to be something he's not. Even if he's NOT a NFL QB because he can't throw it deep, why would you keep encouraging him to do precisely that? If he's not going to hit the deep ball, you're just putting him a risk of a sack or at best a wasted play.

Lazor was much more successful around tailoring the offense around Mitchell's strengths. Consequentially, his sacks went down. Both New Orleans and Green Bay only got one sack a piece against him. His QB rating went way up. Four of his last five games were 95 rating or higher. And I beg to differ that we weren't competitive in the playoffs. We lost one game with a double doink after Mitchell got us into position to win it. And we lost against New Orleans 21-9. Mitchell had a 96.8 rating that game. Lazor also figured out how to get the deep ball out of Mitch. First, he hit a deep one to Mooney against Green Bay by rolling Mitchell out. Against New Orleans he used a Statue of Liberty and Mitchell hit Wims perfectly but Wims dropped it. That's a different game if Wims holds on.

Careful, Yogi, or you'll have the townsfolk shift away from me and gun for you with pitchforks in hand



The only thing I didn't like against Green Bay/New Orleans was the majority of calls were conservative in nature. Trubisky openly complained about "not opening it up" in the post-game presser. Is what it is; if he shows a penchant for hitting those throws consistently I'd like to think they would have been called more often.

I'm more annoyed that I was clamoring for running a Shanahan/McVay derivative all season and we didn't do it until week 12.

Need I remind you that he did the same thing to Nick Foles. Foles can throw the deep ball from the pocket. Unfortunately, our line at the time was in no condition to protect him long enough to get it done. Foles' sack rate skyrocketed and eventually it affected his accuracy, even when there wasn't the pressure. Remember how Foles said that Nagy would send in a play that he just knew wouldn't work? THAT'S the point. You have to tailor your play calling to what your QB and your offense CAN do. It makes no sense to call plays that are doomed to fail from the start. You get by within the limitations of what you have, and if that makes the offense slog, then you just have to slog through.

Agreed again, I felt there was a disconnect between what Nagy wanted to call and what his team was capable of executing. Tough to see WTF is going on when you're buried in your play sheet, but I digress.

To his defense, the Andy Reid offense is literally all that he knows (he said as much). Lazor is more versed in the Air Coryell offense with blending of West Coast concepts. I just hope that this season they aren't running two separate playbooks like they did with Trubisky/Foles last season (when Allen Robinson mentioned this my jaw was on the floor; talk about poor management).

I really disagree with you guys on this. I understand your POV, but just disagree with it. Nagy was hired for a reason, he needs to run his offense and Mitch’s inability to execute it should have led to Foles playing more and maybe trying to shore up the OL, not dumbing it down. Here’s why I feel this way:

By dumbing everything down, you would improve Mitch’s play and show some better results offensively - on this point we are in agreement. Yogi read carefully and mark that down, I agree the offense and Mitch would have performed better against certain opponents had we done this. My issue is, to what end? I don’t think you can win a super bowl running a single read, half field offense. You can’t beat good defenses running this style of offense. I wouldn’t exchange a modest improvement in play for a removal of the chance to beat good teams. I’ll use an analogy that I’m sure will get shredded, but I look at it like a heavyweight fight where you’ve got one guy that’s really not at the level of the other fighter (that’d be us). Do you employ a survival tactic just to say you went the distance or take your shot and maybe land a knockout blow? I see this as taking the safe path but limiting you’re upside. Nagy decided to try and get Mitch to a level where he could execute it - he swung and missed, Mitch couldn’t do it. I don’t mind him taking his shot. And I want him to keep swinging because it’s our only chance of winning a SB - at some point you have to explode you can’t turtle shell your way to a SB. I’d rather take our lumps if it’s advancing us towards a state where our offense can beat anybody, like KC GB TB etc all have.

Our expectations as Bears fans have been set so low I think you guys are settling for a modest improvement whose ceiling is too low to win it all. We have to set our sights higher than that if we ever want to win another SB. And that may be a painful thing to watch sometimes. I’d rather lose some games if it s part of an overall process that gets us to the offensive vision Nagy and Pace have for us. Dumbing it down for Mitch is short sighted in that sense. JMO.

[IE]

That's exactly right, Plank. In today's NFL you need to be able to generate SO much offense that you can piss away a few opportunities and not complain about them too much because you're putting up 30 points regardless.

[Rusty Trombagent]

It is absolutely 100% TRUE that Nagy did not tailor his offense to the NVP. Nagy explained exactly why ... "I didn't come here to run the I Formation". Put simply, Nagy realized that by attempting to make Trubisky look serviceable he was dooming himself. So his thought process was "screw that - he's going to run a modern NFL offense and when he shows he can't it's him gone and not me".

Yeah, he absolutely could have tailored his offense to Mitch, and then we could have extended mitch and nagy would be saddled with a qb who cant actually run an nfl offense for the rest of his career?

Why didnt Nagy do that??!??!

[IE]

It is absolutely 100% TRUE that Nagy did not tailor his offense to the NVP. Nagy explained exactly why ... "I didn't come here to run the I Formation". Put simply, Nagy realized that by attempting to make Trubisky look serviceable he was dooming himself. So his thought process was "screw that - he's going to run a modern NFL offense and when he shows he can't it's him gone and not me".

Yeah, he absolutely could have tailored his offense to Mitch, and then we could have extended mitch and nagy would be saddled with a qb who cant actually run an nfl offense for the rest of his career?

Why didnt Nagy do that??!??!

It's mystifying. I couldn't believe it either! They ruint the NVP.

[dplank]

It is absolutely 100% TRUE that Nagy did not tailor his offense to the NVP. Nagy explained exactly why ... "I didn't come here to run the I Formation". Put simply, Nagy realized that by attempting to make Trubisky look serviceable he was dooming himself. So his thought process was "screw that - he's going to run a modern NFL offense and when he shows he can't it's him gone and not me".

Yeah, he absolutely could have tailored his offense to Mitch, and then we could have extended mitch and nagy would be saddled with a qb who cant actually run an nfl offense for the rest of his career?

Why didnt Nagy do that??!??!

[The Marshall Plan]

Talking to a Mitch supporter has to be what it's like to debate against a Flat Earther.

Do you want your franchise QB to have the following issues:

Inability to hit the deep ball.
Difficulty with medium range passes.
Cannot intellectually absorb the playbook as-is.
Does not read NFL defenses past the first read on a consistent basis.

This is after 3 years of watching him play and a clear regression from 2018 to 2019 into 2020. He got WORSE. Not better.

Then the bold confidence of the Mitch supporters is what is really alarming. NO REALLY THE ICE WALLS ARE THERE! THEY ARE! THOSE AREN'T REAL VIDEOS OF MITCH OVERTHROWING AROB BY FIVE YARDS! THOSE ARE DEEP FAKE COUNTER INTELLIGENCE SUPPRESSION AGENTS DESIGNED TO KEEP YOU FROM KNOWING THE TRUTH! MITCH READ THE ENTIRE DEFENSE! IT'S JUST THAT THEY DIDN'T USE A HIGH ENOUGH SPEED VIDEO CAMERA TO CAPTURE HOW FAST HIS HEAD MOVES! YEAH THAT'S IT!

[G08]

I really disagree with you guys on this. I understand your POV, but just disagree with it. Nagy was hired for a reason, he needs to run his offense and Mitch’s inability to execute it should have led to Foles playing more and maybe trying to shore up the OL, not dumbing it down.

Nagy was hired for a reason, agreed, but he was saddled with a QB that couldn't run his offense. Coaching is not about hammering your system down a player's throat, it is always about putting them in position to succeed.

Unless you are saying that scheme comes before player no matter what, in which case I vehemently disagree. Look at what Brian Daboll is doing with Josh Allen in Buffalo. No play gets implemented unless Allen says he likes and is comfortable with it. You'd think this is common sense...

Suppose Justin Fields can't run Nagy's offense, wouldn't the expectation be for Nagy to tailor the scheme to Fields' strengths (this is precisely what Ryan Day did at Ohio State)? I sure as hell hope so.

By dumbing everything down, you would improve Mitch’s play and show some better results offensively - on this point we are in agreement. Yogi read carefully and mark that down, I agree the offense and Mitch would have performed better against certain opponents had we done this. My issue is, to what end? I don’t think you can win a super bowl running a single read, half field offense. You can’t beat good defenses running this style of offense. I wouldn’t exchange a modest improvement in play for a removal of the chance to beat good teams. I’ll use an analogy that I’m sure will get shredded, but I look at it like a heavyweight fight where you’ve got one guy that’s really not at the level of the other fighter (that’d be us). Do you employ a survival tactic just to say you went the distance or take your shot and maybe land a knockout blow? I see this as taking the safe path but limiting you’re upside. Nagy decided to try and get Mitch to a level where he could execute it - he swung and missed, Mitch couldn’t do it. I don’t mind him taking his shot. And I want him to keep swinging because it’s our only chance of winning a SB - at some point you have to explode you can’t turtle shell your way to a SB. I’d rather take our lumps if it’s advancing us towards a state where our offense can beat anybody, like KC GB TB etc all have.

Our expectations as Bears fans have been set so low I think you guys are settling for a modest improvement whose ceiling is too low to win it all. We have to set our sights higher than that if we ever want to win another SB. And that may be a painful thing to watch sometimes. I’d rather lose some games if it s part of an overall process that gets us to the offensive vision Nagy and Pace have for us. Dumbing it down for Mitch is short sighted in that sense. JMO.

"Dumbing everything down" is patently false. Is San Francisco's offense dumbed down? How about Los Angeles'?

Our expectations as Bears fans have been set so low I think you guys are settling for a modest improvement

Crawl before we walk, especially with this team.