I think if the last four years have proved anything it's that Nagy can make any quarterback look bad.
Some, like Trubisky made their own contributions, others like Fields were more often innocent bystanders.
Hell, Nagy might have even tanked Mahomes if Reid hadn't palmed him off on Pace.
General Manager/Head Coach Interview Discussion
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Dave, stat of the day for you.
Andy Dalton has been an NFL QB for 177 games, starting 150 games over 11 years. In all that time, he only had 3 games where he took 7 or more sacks and he only had 5 games where he threw 4 INT's. That's 8 games that would qualify as a 'shit show' out of 150.
2 of those 8 shit shows occurred in the mere 6 starts he had playing for Matt Nagy. So yea, I really am not putting any stock in QBR or other stuff for a rookie playing under those conditions. Thank sweet baby Jebus Matt Nagy is gone.
Andy Dalton has been an NFL QB for 177 games, starting 150 games over 11 years. In all that time, he only had 3 games where he took 7 or more sacks and he only had 5 games where he threw 4 INT's. That's 8 games that would qualify as a 'shit show' out of 150.
2 of those 8 shit shows occurred in the mere 6 starts he had playing for Matt Nagy. So yea, I really am not putting any stock in QBR or other stuff for a rookie playing under those conditions. Thank sweet baby Jebus Matt Nagy is gone.
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I did give Mitch a good rope. Every player deserves some minimum. JF1 actually ( at least IMO) demonstrated some arm talent that Mitch never had - so that might buy him a little extra time from me. But I expect JF1 to be consistently pretty good and not taking dumb sacks and not fumbling as much by mid-season next year or I'll start doubting him.HisRoyalSweetness wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:06 pmIE wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:04 pm God, I hate that season-long QBR stat for Fields. Especially because they're so bad only because of really 1 or 2 games. That's super-lazy OR for some reason intentionally making him look worse than what he was. Over his last 5 games he was something like an 85 rating with 250 passing and 1:1 TD/INT. That is slightly below average NFL starter right there, with no preparation as the starter thanks to Nagy.
Why the deliberate slams at the kid, given the context? Makes no sense.I hate to be that guy IE, but you could have said exactly the same things about Trubisky and his first season. I assume we're actually talking about passer rating rather than QBR here and Fields median rating was 79.95 whereas Trubisky's was 87.95. Unlike Fields, whose highest passer rating in a game was 96.6 when he threw a TD on the last play against the Vikings, Trubisky even put up 3 games with a rating over 100.
Here are their stats for their last 5 starts (Fields versus Trubisky):
Completion %: 60.4 versus 67.1
Yards: 1058 versus 1054
TD/INT Ratio: 5/4 versus 3/3
Passer Rating: 84.0 versus 85.4
Remarkably similar wouldn't you say?
We all hoped Trubisky would take a leap forward with a new HC and a new scheme. Now we're hoping the same with Fields. That's not 'slamming the kid' or ignoring context. It's just stating a fact. Fields looks like a better prospect, but there are no guarantees.
This is it exactly. We've seen something from a number of young players this season, although thanks to Nagy's obstinacy and (understandable) desire for self-preservation not as much as we should have, to hope good things lie ahead for them but it's far from certain at this point. Next year should be all about the new HC getting his schemes in place and evaluating what these players can do.
But the QBR quote thing, again, is deliberately presenting misleading information and ignoring quite different recency. It is disingenuous.
I don't know what I find funnier - the JF1 is a bottom QBR guy or the comments about moving guys who have shown they can play tackle to G. LOL I mean seriously what is up.
And like Plank said, Sweet Baby Bourbon Jesus, thanks Nagy is gone!
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Let's also remember that this is the same Houston ownership has allowed Jack Easterby, the former chaplain of the Patriots, to take over Football Operations.
The Game of Thrones analogy is a good one, with Easterby being Littlefinger:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/10/ex-ch ... aily-cover
The Game of Thrones analogy is a good one, with Easterby being Littlefinger:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/12/10/ex-ch ... aily-cover
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It’s definitely plausible that Fields was harmed and held back by Nagy’s incompetence. However, after believing that the Bears had solved the QB issues when they traded for Cutler coming off his ProBowl season, I’m not going to crown any QB until I see it.dave99 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:32 pm I think if the last four years have proved anything it's that Nagy can make any quarterback look bad.
Some, like Trubisky made their own contributions, others like Fields were more often innocent bystanders.
Hell, Nagy might have even tanked Mahomes if Reid hadn't palmed him off on Pace.
And while I hope Fields develops into the guy, I think it’s premature to say the position is solved.
Anyway, I came across a disturbing tweet about the Bears use of resources and how they’re set up for the future:
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I would disagree with that assessment - Smith was 'promoted' in the same way some here thought Ryan Pace was going to be. Smith, like Pace, was very well regarded by the owners (McNair's), but BOB was looking for more power after a couple of good seasons and they were inclined to give it to him. Smith was moved up the ladder and BOB got more control over the organization.
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Denver also has two 2nd and two 3rd round picks this year thanks to the Von Miller trade (and 11 picks in total). George Paton has the 9th overall pick and plenty of ammunition to move up in the draft if he wants to. Two of the teams picking before him definitely won't be after a QB (Jaguars and Jets) and the Giants aren't going to spend both of their picks on one.
Also, the draft isn't his only option. You'd think talk of Rodgers being ready to leave Green Bay may have settled down now they have the number one seed in the NFC, but if they fall short yet again then it's conceivable he might still want to go elsewhere. Then there's Wilson in Seattle. Carroll may have nixed Pace's insane offer for him last year, but with another year gone by and no first round pick this year perhaps the Seahawks will be ready to move on.
Whatever Paton decides, all those draft picks in addition to a roster loaded with talent must add to the attraction of the Broncos' head coaching vacancy, especially when compared to the Bears, their paucity of picks and obvious roster holes.
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My second city team has always been Pittsburgh and from friends that follow the Steelers closely they do not want to lose Khan. He is very strongly considered a potential replacement to Colbert and it is mentioned in the article... Also thought the comp picks from the NFL is interesting as well.TheWorldBreaker wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:54 am Bears requested an interview with Steelers VP Omar Khan:
Schefter: Bears To Interview Steelers' Omar Khan For GM Position - Steelers Depot
https://steelersdepot.com/2022/01/schef ... -position/
"Should Khan be hired be hired as GM of another team, Pittsburgh would receive a third round compensatory pick in the 2022 and 2023 NFL Drafts as part of a recent NFL resolution for minority candidates hired to head coach or executive front office roles."
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I was not sure either... I found this article from 2019... Not sure the rule still applies would guess that it is still in place??
https://thespun.com/pac-12/usc/cfb-prog ... -its-coach
Schefter revealed a new NFL rule states teams must request permission from college athletic directors to interview college coaches. If the school denies an NFL team’s request “the NFL club should respect that decision just as it would respect a similar decision from another NFL club.”
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Maybe the Bears can't talk to Harbaugh. But Polian can.bearsoldier wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:53 pmI was not sure either... I found this article from 2019... Not sure the rule still applies would guess that it is still in place??
https://thespun.com/pac-12/usc/cfb-prog ... -its-coach
Schefter revealed a new NFL rule states teams must request permission from college athletic directors to interview college coaches. If the school denies an NFL team’s request “the NFL club should respect that decision just as it would respect a similar decision from another NFL club.”
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College head coaches hold too much power at their universities to worry about this rule. If they want to interview - they'll interview.
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That is possible... Still think they would have to contact Michigan AD Warde Manuel if anything began to develop publicly if the rule remains active.
I think the rule pertains to the NFL team interested, not the candidate if I am understanding correctly.Hiphopopotamos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:16 am College head coaches hold too much power at their universities to worry about this rule. If they want to interview - they'll interview.
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Yes - but what I am saying is that if the head coach wants to talk to an NFL team - the university isn't going to tell him no. Kingsbury had just been hired as an OC at USC when he was initially denied permission to interview. He was a splash hire and USC was rightfully pissed that he was still looking at NFL jobs. A head coach isn't likely going to get the same push back (unless he too had just been hired a couple of weeks prior).bearsoldier wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:50 amThat is possible... Still think they would have to contact Michigan AD Warde Manuel if anything began to develop publicly if the rule remains active.
I think the rule pertains to the NFL team interested, not the candidate if I am understanding correctly.Hiphopopotamos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:16 am College head coaches hold too much power at their universities to worry about this rule. If they want to interview - they'll interview.
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He is my 1a and have Omar Khan as my 1b... I really think Smith is best overall GM candidate, but also think Khan could really be the best 1st time GM... From reading about Khan, it seems he would be very good at working out all the open contract decisions we have this year along with managing the complicated cap details. Khan might also be the right fit if we were to get a HC who demanded at least some level of control or more freedom to directly influence all FO personnel decisions.IotaNet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:54 pmTotal co sign. I’ve been reading/hearing good things about him for years and he appears to be highly respected across the league as a “football man.”
He also has learned a quite a bit about life and perspective over the last few years. I think he’d be an excellent FO leader.
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I follow what you had in mind now and totally agree... Michigan would have to let Harbaugh interview to avoid having him become totally disgruntled and let him at least consider the opportunity for what would be a promotion to move back to the NFL.Hiphopopotamos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:55 am
Yes - but what I am saying is that if the head coach wants to talk to an NFL team - the university isn't going to tell him no. Kingsbury had just been hired as an OC at USC when he was initially denied permission to interview. He was a splash hire and USC was rightfully pissed that he was still looking at NFL jobs. A head coach isn't likely going to get the same push back (unless he too had just been hired a couple of weeks prior).
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My only concern with Khan is there is no record of him as a personnel guy and it almost feels like we'd have another guy running the organization who isn't a 'football' guy. Now, that's not necessarily fair considering Khan has over 20 years in NFL front offices - but he has largely been thought of as a numbers/cap guy. There would have to be heavy investment and trust in his DPP and Dir of Scouting. I'm sure those are questions being asked and something Khan has answers for.bearsoldier wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:09 amHe is my 1a and have Omar Khan as my 1b... I really think Smith is best overall GM candidate, but also think Khan could really be the best 1st time GM... From reading about Khan, it seems he would be very good at working out all the open contract decisions we have this year along with managing the complicated cap details. Khan might also be the right fit if we were to get a HC who demanded at least some level of control or more freedom to directly influence all FO personnel decisions.IotaNet wrote: ↑Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:54 pm Total co sign. I’ve been reading/hearing good things about him for years and he appears to be highly respected across the league as a “football man.”
He also has learned a quite a bit about life and perspective over the last few years. I think he’d be an excellent FO leader.
I like that Rick Smith has done the job before and wouldn't need any kind of learning curve - but I also worry that he may not have the same upside some of these other candidates mentioned would have. Excited to see which way this goes.
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I think Michigan is doing a decent job of making Harbaugh feel appreciated.
I don’t seem him moving
I don’t seem him moving
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Yeah, I think you can safely remove Harbaugh from these lists.
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Don't hold the non-personnel thing against Khan IMO.Hiphopopotamos wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:25 amMy only concern with Khan is there is no record of him as a personnel guy and it almost feels like we'd have another guy running the organization who isn't a 'football' guy. Now, that's not necessarily fair considering Khan has over 20 years in NFL front offices - but he has largely been thought of as a numbers/cap guy. There would have to be heavy investment and trust in his DPP and Dir of Scouting. I'm sure those are questions being asked and something Khan has answers for.bearsoldier wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:09 am
He is my 1a and have Omar Khan as my 1b... I really think Smith is best overall GM candidate, but also think Khan could really be the best 1st time GM... From reading about Khan, it seems he would be very good at working out all the open contract decisions we have this year along with managing the complicated cap details. Khan might also be the right fit if we were to get a HC who demanded at least some level of control or more freedom to directly influence all FO personnel decisions.
I like that Rick Smith has done the job before and wouldn't need any kind of learning curve - but I also worry that he may not have the same upside some of these other candidates mentioned would have. Excited to see which way this goes.
All things the same I'd probably prefer to fill my number 2 role with a personnel guy than have the greatest evaluator in the world at the top who lacked the other core skills for the job. It means that number two job probably becomes one of the best number 2 jobs in the league as far as appeal. Most teams have, what 12-20 types of scouts and scout-related director roles. It's way more collaborative in nature than just basic leadership and organizational administration. You can collaborate an org structure the same way that scouting inherently is a team process.
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What @The Cooler King said.
The GM will be the top football person, and is responsible for organizing entire operation on that side, and if their strength is in organization management that's a GOOD thing. Particularly if they also know they need to hire smart people for the part that isn't their strongest suit.
The GM will be the top football person, and is responsible for organizing entire operation on that side, and if their strength is in organization management that's a GOOD thing. Particularly if they also know they need to hire smart people for the part that isn't their strongest suit.
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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I don't get this. I want to win & the Texans haven't won anything ever. Hitting on a handful of first rounders over several years should be minimum qualification for someone who's actually made picks. But coming from a winning program/background has to be a core requirement. I want a GM from a winning program and winning lineage.
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While they didn't win big, I think people see some really strong core components. Especially on the back half of his run. And it was others that really tore that base down.IE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:03 am I don't get this. I want to win & the Texans haven't won anything ever. Hitting on a handful of first rounders over several years should be minimum qualification for someone who's actually made picks. But coming from a winning program/background has to be a core requirement. I want a GM from a winning program and winning lineage.
Defintiely more process over result arguement.
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Bowles
Daboll
Eberflus
Flores
Frazier
Hackett
Leftwich
Pederson
Quinn
Out of the 9 that we know have been called for interviews Flores is my #1
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While true that Smith never won it all in Houston - they did have a pretty good run and he was the man at the top. He was making the final call on pretty much everything. Basically every other candidate (that was at a club that won it all) it is nearly impossible to tell what role they had in the 'winning'. I understand that's what the interviews are all about - but Pace came from a winning org too.IE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:03 am I don't get this. I want to win & the Texans haven't won anything ever. Hitting on a handful of first rounders over several years should be minimum qualification for someone who's actually made picks. But coming from a winning program/background has to be a core requirement. I want a GM from a winning program and winning lineage.
I'm relatively lukewarm on Smith. But I do like the fact that I can go and look and see exactly what he had done in his time as GM - which is more than I can do for the rest of the candidates.
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You have to look at what the Texans were before Smith was hired, and look at them after he was let go.IE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:03 am I don't get this. I want to win & the Texans haven't won anything ever. Hitting on a handful of first rounders over several years should be minimum qualification for someone who's actually made picks. But coming from a winning program/background has to be a core requirement. I want a GM from a winning program and winning lineage.
He has had success:
12 seasons, only 4 of which were 'losing seasons'
4 playoff appearances
11 Pro Bowlers drafted
etc
We could do a lot worse than Rick Smith.
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I have a feeling it's going to be Ed Dodds and Matt Eberflus.
Love the former, not sure how I feel about the latter... I'm in no rush to go back to Lovie's Cover 2 defense.
Love the former, not sure how I feel about the latter... I'm in no rush to go back to Lovie's Cover 2 defense.
Last edited by G08 on Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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